Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[hoopy]

We need attacking players now and Byrne and Finn are much more available then they were a few weeks ago. N

With Chambers gone I'd be surprised if our boss hasn't already contacted Ronan Finn about coming on board.

[Hibs4Ever]

With Chambers gone I'd be surprised if our boss hasn't already contacted Ronan Finn about coming on board.


According to todays papers you're trying to get Finn, Williams and O'Neill, plus Oman is pretty much a done deal

[OneForTheFuture]

How is the sponsor set up at tolka Buile ? Read that its not all rosey.

Shelbourne Football Club have confirmed that CAB 2000 have agreed to remain on as main sponsor of the club for the coming season.

“This is great news for all at the club and in these difficult economic times, the club is extremely grateful to Cab 2000 and in particular to its owner, Mr. Anthony Kelly, for his wonderful support of the club, both going forward and over the past two seasons.”

“The contribution being made by CAB 2000 is extremely substantial and will be of great assistance to the BOM in its efforts to return the club to its rightful place in the Premier Division of the Airtricity League.”


http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/4895/

[Flawless]

According to todays papers you're trying to get Finn, Williams and O'Neill, plus Oman is pretty much a done deal

Even with Rovers significant financial clout, you're talking an extra 3k easy on to the wage bill there (and that's a minimum guesstimation!).. Can't see that being feasible never mind true. Williams is a cert ot go Cross-Channel i'd say.. Liverpool could be sniffing now since they missed out on Charlie Adam! ;)

[eamoss]

Even with Rovers significant financial clout, you're talking an extra 3k easy on to the wage bill there (and that's a minimum guesstimation!).. Can't see that being feasible never mind true. Williams is a cert ot go Cross-Channel i'd say.. Liverpool could be sniffing now since they missed out on Charlie Adam! ;)

From todays indo

Midfielder Shaun Williams has particular reason to be aggrieved. The club rejected an approach from Celtic last month and, under British transfer regulations, it appears that he is now unable to move across the water until the summer as he didn't become a free agent before the transfer window closed on January 31.http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fingal-ready-to-give-up-the-ghost-2533347.html

[Spudulika]

I heard Tony O'Donoghue saying this last night and this has already been debunked as a complete lie. Yet of course if it's repeated ad nauseum then it must be true. I wonder will we ever have a season where we start will all clubs who finished the previous?

[John83]

Doesn't Conan Byrne have a job linked to the club as well? Double bogey.
Yeah, he has some sort of off-field role, either as CPO or something along those lines.

[Flawless]

From todays indo
Midfielder Shaun Williams has particular reason to be aggrieved. The club rejected an approach from Celtic last month and, under British transfer regulations, it appears that he is now unable to move across the water until the summer as he didn't become a free agent before the transfer window closed on January 31.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fingal-ready-to-give-up-the-ghost-2533347.html

I'm not sure how accurate that is Eamo, There has to be cause for dispensation!.. was going to highlight Shefki Kuqi's move to Newcastle as case in point but that won't hold water as he was released in January! :(

[gufct]

Yeah, he has some sort of off-field role, either as CPO or something along those lines.

Grant aid for CPO'S has been scrapped.

[Ezeikial]

Even with Rovers significant financial clout, you're talking an extra 3k easy on to the wage bill there (and that's a minimum guesstimation!).. Can't see that being feasible never mind true. Williams is a cert ot go Cross-Channel i'd say.. Liverpool could be sniffing now since they missed out on Charlie Adam! ;)

Closer to €4k a week or a whopping €160k for the season.

Hard to know about Williams (probably will go cross chanel in July), Oman is a done deal, Finn probable, but there is competition for O'Neill even at the crazy money he was offered by Fingal.

I expect Rovers to sign three of these.

[marinobohs]

Sad to see Sporting Fingal in such dire straits (never understand people gloating over what is another blow to the LOI fast disappearing credibility).
As I understand it the problem was a UK company which had agreed to back them (somewhat filling the void left by Gerry Gannon) pulled out last week and that this is why they were still signing players up to early last week (Oman). The money paid to the players on Saturday was an advance on money due from the FAI so while it solved the immediate problem (monies already owed) it simply deferred the problem until the next payday.
Hopefully, the club can put together a team for the 2011 season and dont have to fold but it is difficult to see them operating with any sort of viability unless major funding can be sourced (not a good envoirnment to be looking for ANY funding at present).

[Quayman]

Could they not go and do what Cork and Derry have done, fold the holding company and start up afresh with no debts but drop down and this time take it slowly? Or is it that there is nobody willing to do anything for them?

[Quayman]

Yeah, he has some sort of off-field role, either as CPO or something along those lines.

Is he not the marketing manager?

[D.24saint]

Could they not go and do what Cork and Derry have done, fold the holding company and start up afresh with no debts but drop down and this time take it slowly? Or is it that there is nobody willing to do anything for them?

as far as I know they dont have debts they just cant finance the running of the club.

[White Horse]

Could they not go and do what Cork and Derry have done, fold the holding company and start up afresh with no debts but drop down and this time take it slowly? Or is it that there is nobody willing to do anything for them?

Fingal have no debt that I am aware of.

Their issue is that they want to be funded by a sugar daddy and not by their own fans/community.

The last line of your post sums it up "is it that there is nobody willing to do anything for them?". Why should "they"? It is up to the fans to fund their own club.

[marinobohs]

Could they not go and do what Cork and Derry have done, fold the holding company and start up afresh with no debts but drop down and this time take it slowly? Or is it that there is nobody willing to do anything for them?
Problem appears not to be accumalated debt but current expenditure (ie players wages) are not viable in the future. Wages commited to in contracts for 2011 (and beyond) are way beyond current projected income.
As far as I know club is not in direct danger of going under but given closeness to new season it is doubtfull they can put together team, business plan etc for the new season.

[total hoofball]

Sad to see Sporting Fingal in such dire straits (never understand people gloating over what is another blow to the LOI fast disappearing credibility).
As I understand it the problem was a UK company which had agreed to back them (somewhat filling the void left by Gerry Gannon) pulled out last week and that this is why they were still signing players up to early last week (Oman). The money paid to the players on Saturday was an advance on money due from the FAI so while it solved the immediate problem (monies already owed) it simply deferred the problem until the next payday.

Buckley said last week that the UK backer was to only make up 15-20% of their annual budget so it's a red herring to suggest the collapse of that deal was the sole reason to bring them down. That deal was 500k over 3 years, 170k~ per season, at 15-20% of budget that would mean their planned annual budget was around 800k.

They would have had league prize money, UEFA prizemoney, some TV income, some matchday income on their small attendances and some smaller sponsorships. Not a chance all that would go anywhere near to filling the remaining 600k needed to complete the season.

Facts are they had no money in their bank account to pay players last week before the season kicked off, that means they had no other sponsorship. They were screwed and on the road to ruin with that UK backer or not.

McGuinness of the PFAI confirmed last night that they signed a player as recently as last week when the club was in serious difficulty and had no money to pay their current players. Someone at Sporting Fingal should be shot for that. Unreal.

[total hoofball]

Problem appears not to be accumalated debt but current expenditure (ie players wages) are not viable in the future. Wages commited to in contracts for 2011 (and beyond) are way beyond current projected income.
As far as I know club is not in direct danger of going under but given closeness to new season it is doubtfull they can put together team, business plan etc for the new season.
There is no way the club can continue. They have broken the player's contracts, unless they come to a settlement the players will have the club wound up just as Shelley and Grey attempted to do.

[total hoofball]

as far as I know they dont have debts they just cant finance the running of the club.
As I've said, as of yesterday they now have debts of 13 broken player contracts to deal with

[Bunny Kelly]

If they totally go are Cobh in a position to step up & take their place or will we have an 11 team league

[marinobohs]

There is no way the club can continue. They have broken the player's contracts, unless they come to a settlement the players will have the club wound up just as Shelley and Grey attempted to do.

As I said the timeframe is frighteningly narrow but not impossible. Players can be found (although extremely unlikely to be anyway competitive and a deal could be done rapidly with the current players. Bigger question as I would see it is if the club is anyway viable going forward (apols for using that phrase) and if in fact there is any point in trying to "save" the club for this season.
I hope I am wrong but, given the timeframe, a more likely scenario is for them to take a season out and seek to restart in 2012 in First Division

[Roo69]

As I said the timeframe is frighteningly narrow but not impossible. Players can be found (although extremely unlikely to be anyway competitive and a deal could be done rapidly with the current players. Bigger question as I would see it is if the club is anyway viable going forward (apols for using that phrase) and if in fact there is any point in trying to "save" the club for this season.
I hope I am wrong but, given the timeframe, a more likely scenario is for them to take a season out and seek to restart in 2012 in First Division

Possibly even the A Championship....

So what next, Monaghan United promoted?

[SupaJon]

Possibly even the A Championship....

So what next, Monaghan United promoted?

Whoever it is, I hope they sort it out quickly so that they don't end up going through what we did last season. (Well, the first half of it anyway.)

[total hoofball]

As I said the timeframe is frighteningly narrow but not impossible. Players can be found (although extremely unlikely to be anyway competitive and a deal could be done rapidly with the current players. Bigger question as I would see it is if the club is anyway viable going forward (apols for using that phrase) and if in fact there is any point in trying to "save" the club for this season.
I hope I am wrong but, given the timeframe, a more likely scenario is for them to take a season out and seek to restart in 2012 in First Division

No doubt an all amateur local team could be clobbered together for Div 1 or A Champ, they have Dalymount paid for a season anyway, Fingal county council could release a small amount of funding to get the Lusk facility up to basic standards. That's not entirely impossible

What's looks impossible to me is sourcing funding to pay off the players. Conservatively estimate 13 players on 30k per year, we're talking about 400K to be owed to players. Players will be looking for 50% to be owed, realistically 33% will be shaken on. Even in that optimistic scenario the club would need to source 135k out of nowhere. Fingal have zero money and no company or businessman will pay for that.

99% certain they are done, even that 1% chance happens they should be kicked out of the league for good for their shady contract dealings over the last month

[total hoofball]

Possibly even the A Championship....

So what next, Monaghan United promoted?

Drogheda no. 1, if they can't Monaghan should be, they advanced further in the play-offs but with Waterford finishing above Monaghan in the league you can't help but think a favour may be done for someone's local club....

Monaghan were getting ready for a PD licence at the end of last season so I've no doubt they will receive one unless they screw something up

[Dodge]

As I've said, as of yesterday they now have debts of 13 broken player contracts to deal with

is that 13 from last year or including the likes of O'Neill and Oman who signed this off season? ISn't there something in licensing about players not bieng registered until FAI say so? if so O'Neill and Oman wouldn't be owed a penny. Is this right?

Wihout any assets its hard to see how players could get anything from a wound up Fingal

[Jofspring]

Wihout any assets its hard to see how players could get anything from a wound up Fingal

They would be wasting their time alright I would think. They could probably show some good will towards the club also as the have always (barr last week) had their wages paid. The main thing the players should be concentrating now is sorting out deals with a new club.

[marinobohs]

No doubt an all amateur local team could be clobbered together for Div 1 or A Champ, they have Dalymount paid for a season anyway, Fingal county council could release a small amount of funding to get the Lusk facility up to basic standards. That's not entirely impossible

What's looks impossible to me is sourcing funding to pay off the players. Conservatively estimate 13 players on 30k per year, we're talking about 400K to be owed to players. Players will be looking for 50% to be owed, realistically 33% will be shaken on. Even in that optimistic scenario the club would need to source 135k out of nowhere. Fingal have zero money and no company or businessman will pay for that.

99% certain they are done, even that 1% chance happens they should be kicked out of the league for good for their shady contract dealings over the last month

Agree things look very bleak for fingal at present. No reason IF they survive why all amateur team could not operate in premier League.
Agree RE paying off players as well but this can be done speedily (especially as players want to move on) just because Bohs made such a dogs diner of it. Matter is dependent on what players will settle for and what funds available.

Not sure what rules they broke that would attract removal from Premier League and "for good" ????????

[John83]

Not sure what rules they broke that would attract removal from Premier League and "for good" ????????
Anyone know the law regarding reckless trading?

[Lamper.sffc]

Agree things look very bleak for fingal at present. No reason IF they survive why all amateur team could not operate in premier League.
Agree RE paying off players as well but this can be done speedily (especially as players want to move on) just because Bohs made such a dogs diner of it. Matter is dependent on what players will settle for and what funds available.

Not sure what rules they broke that would attract removal from Premier League and "for good" ????????

We stopped Shels getting promoted and we beat Sligo in the FAI cup ;)

[Dodge]

Some of us were quite happy about that...

[Bunny Kelly]

Without wanting to cause too much offence to Fingal fans I'm inwardly delighted at what has happened to to them.

They came in at the expense of my little club. Kilkenny were only small time but so were their debts & I believe a way to manage them could have been found if the FAI weren't in such a rush to fast-track this franchise that had arrived in the A championship. The FAI were so blinded by Fingal's money they were happy to push through a side that only existed a mere months instead of a club who tried to live by their budget constraints.

I know we were only small & had low attendances but we were not reckless & given time may have been able to build something again as we had in the past, but instead we were pushed over the edge to accommodate the short term thinking of Sporting Fingal.


Despite this rant I do feel for the Fingal fans because it's just not the same when you lose your own team

[John83]

Bunny, my understanding is that Kilkenny lost their main organiser, and that's what really did them in rather than the debts.

[Lamper.sffc]

Without wanting to cause too much offence to Fingal fans I'm inwardly delighted at what has happened to to them.

They came in at the expense of my little club. Kilkenny were only small time but so were their debts & I believe a way to manage them could have been found if the FAI weren't in such a rush to fast-track this franchise that had arrived in the A championship. The FAI were so blinded by Fingal's money they were happy to push through a side that only existed a mere months instead of a club who tried to live by their budget constraints.

I know we were only small & had low attendances but we were not reckless & given time may have been able to build something again as we had in the past, but instead we were pushed over the edge to accommodate the short term thinking of Sporting Fingal.


Despite this rant I do feel for the Fingal fans because it's just not the same when you lose your own team

Appreciate the support for the fans and thanks, but was it not kilkenny themselves who decided to call it quits. They decided they could no longer run a club in the LOI if memory serves me well. Our club was heading into the A championship without any problem. We where geared up for that league albeit with a decent squad at that level.

[marinobohs]

Anyone know the law regarding reckless trading?

Really now, since when has reckless trading ever been a problem in LOI :confused: in legal sense I would imagine the defence would be that they expected income from UK sponsorship (figure of 500 K mentioned in Evening Herald) and had operated based on that . Very difficult to prove "reckless trading" in such a scenario unless perhaps they signed someone after deal colapsed. More likely legal route for players is our old friend "breach of contract" but as others pointed out there are limited assets to chase and players more likely to settle and move on.

[John83]

Really now, since when has reckless trading ever been a problem in LOI :confused: in legal sense I would imagine the defence would be that they expected income from UK sponsorship (figure of 500 K mentioned in Evening Herald) and had operated based on that . Very difficult to prove "reckless trading" in such a scenario unless perhaps they signed someone after deal colapsed. More likely legal route for players is our old friend "breach of contract" but as others pointed out there are limited assets to chase and players more likely to settle and move on.
My understanding of the point of reckless trading is that the players could pursue the council and any other shareholders for the club's debts. I can imagine you're correct regarding how hard it is to prove though.

[Charlie Darwin]

No doubt an all amateur local team could be clobbered together for Div 1 or A Champ, they have Dalymount paid for a season anyway, Fingal county council could release a small amount of funding to get the Lusk facility up to basic standards. That's not entirely impossible

What's looks impossible to me is sourcing funding to pay off the players. Conservatively estimate 13 players on 30k per year, we're talking about 400K to be owed to players. Players will be looking for 50% to be owed, realistically 33% will be shaken on. Even in that optimistic scenario the club would need to source 135k out of nowhere. Fingal have zero money and no company or businessman will pay for that.

99% certain they are done, even that 1% chance happens they should be kicked out of the league for good for their shady contract dealings over the last month
Most or all of the players are going to get new contracts at other clubs. Fingal would only be liable for unearned income, i.e. lost earnings for the time between contracts and possibly the difference between old wage and new wage.

Reckless trading would only apply if the club knew that it couldn't honour the contracts before they were signed, and even then it'd be hard to prove. Reckless trading action is usually only taken against companies that profit from work and then don't properly compensate the workers.

[legendz]

Fingal, Drogheda or Bohemians, Kildare, Kilkenny, Castlebar, Carlow, Tullamore, Cobh and Tralee. 9 clubs that need the A Championship to remain. First two if they fall and need a pathway back to the league. The next two if they ever look to rejoin the league. The remaining five are the sides who took part last year. Hopefully Castlebar will look to rejoin. Crazy to end the A Championship. It has a purpose.

[marinobohs]

My understanding of the point of reckless trading is that the players could pursue the council and any other shareholders for the club's debts. I can imagine you're correct regarding how hard it is to prove though.

if fingal County Council are shareholders it could be possible to chase them for breach of contract (much clearer case than reckless trading) and much the same thing for players - would be seeking contracts honoured. Would be interesting to see if Fingal CC have put some "firewalls" between themselves and any potential liabilities

[pineapple stu]

No reason IF they survive why all amateur team could not operate in premier League.
I think you underestimate the costs of putting out an all-amateur team for starters, particularly in addition to the player debts outlined by total hoofball.

In addition, I don't think there's anyone involved with the club who'd have the appetite for a struggling all-amateur team. The club always appeared to have been an all-or-nothing venture.

I can't see them getting a licence, and I can't see them being able to continue even if they do get a licence.

[marinobohs]

I think you underestimate the costs of putting out an all-amateur team for starters, particularly in addition to the player debts outlined by total hoofball.

In addition, I don't think there's anyone involved with the club who'd have the appetite for a struggling all-amateur team. The club always appeared to have been an all-or-nothing venture.

I can't see them getting a licence, and I can't see them being able to continue even if they do get a licence.

Agree PS its extremely unlikely (possibly 1% shot at best ?). I was just making the point that an all amatuer team would not preclude participation in Prem Division.
As suggested most likely option is year out and back to the drawing board for SF to put together a ressurection plan (or fade away completely).

[passerrby]

one cannot decide to unilaterily cancell a contract those players have been sacked, sporting are not in a position to apply for a licence.

[Dave_SRFC]

Just wondering what club the 20 Fingal fans will choose to support now, or who would you like to see move into the Fingal area, Bohs or Shels?

[Red Army]

Castlebar are going back to the Mayo league afaik.

[micls]

Just wondering what club the 20 Fingal fans will choose to support now, or who would you like to see move into the Fingal area, Bohs or Shels?

Who would you have supported if SRFC had gone bust? I'd imagine like most of us you'd be completely disillunsioned and it would be too gutting to even consider supporting someone else.

Yes, Fingal are only around a couple of years, but I know that 2 years into supporting City I certainly wouldnt have been able to become a Cobh fan if we'd gone bang.

The amount of fans is irrelevant really, I wouldn't wish this feeling on anyone, and even if it's only 1 person going through it I feel for them.

We were lucky, we've had the heartbreak, the being on the brink of extinction more than once, but we came back and we'll be stronger for it. I hope the Fingal fans can have the same. maybe start small, and build up slowly.

The club owners fecked up royally, but as someone who had TNB running my club for a year I certainly can't judge the fans on that basis.

Good luck to them.

[legendz]

Castlebar are going back to the Mayo league afaik.

It's disappointing it's a step they have had to take. They can't be blamed with the way the A Championship is going and almost gone. Maybe the best route for football in the county is a provincial pyramid structure from Junior leagues to Intermediate leagues?

[passerrby]

Just wondering what club the 20 Fingal fans will choose to support now, or who would you like to see move into the Fingal area, Bohs or Shels?

they could support yourselves but then again dont remember sporting having any yobs

[The Lep]

Anyone know the law regarding reckless trading?


Nick Leeson.

[Martinho II]

I saw in the papers today that there is talk of a eleven team first division what about the likes of cobh who lost the playoff? its sad to see SF go I know Alan Kirby was holdin out for a new club as he was concerned that fingal hasnt got back to him about a new deal and he understandably got nervous.. Its a total sham what happened to SF..They got too ambitious too soon...I wonder will SF end up in the A league or is this the end of SF?

[Dodge]

one cannot decide to unilaterily cancell a contract those players have been sacked, sporting are not in a position to apply for a licence.

Its fairly ironic that you have to point this out to a Bohs fan