View Full Version : Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up
Cuyahoga
12/02/2011, 7:58 AM
The "big" clubs in Ireland seem to hate the most because they can bring a dozen fans to an away game and the stadium announcer doesn't name the fans at home games. Small clubs are not hated because they are not threatening and can be used to pick up players on the cheap. Woe betide any club that pops their head above the parapet and try to improve themselves - whether by gambling (as is the norm) or trying to do something different. The word of caution in all this is enjoy your time on the tigers back.
I dont understand your first sentence .
pineapple stu
12/02/2011, 8:59 AM
I take it you can enlighten us on the rest so?
Longfordian
12/02/2011, 9:33 AM
I think it's some kind of ancient Chinese proverb.
Mad Moose
12/02/2011, 9:38 AM
I think the crucial difference between SF and the Bohs meltdown, and as I remember Derry City's similar meltdown before they reformed, is the fact that SF called it a day and didn't drag it along in the vain hope of surviving even if it meant defaulting on players wages. There is much less for McGuinness to speak out about when a club folds but in doing so had paid its players up to the point it shut down.
eelmonster
12/02/2011, 11:07 AM
The word of caution in all this is enjoy your time on the tigers back.
You should have warned Fingal County Council and Gannon. The league would have been in a stronger position if Fingannon CC had reached out to established north Dublin clubs instead of indulging their Sporting Folly. In any case, you're preaching to the choir, most fans aren't as stupid as some of your more condescending posts imply and understand only too well the precarious financial position of their clubs.
Spudulika
12/02/2011, 11:41 AM
eelmonster, if you find any posts condescending it's because you choose to, none would be or set out to be. There are plenty of people who enjoy seeing other clubs crash and burn, which typifies football in Ireland and why the LOI is in the state it's in. What is most disgusting is the attitude of, well, the FAI let it all happen. Wrong, clubs and those following or supporting them are to blame, and this culture will continue. Your own snide aside about Fingannon CC is just an extension of what many people thought from the beginning, so what could have been done? Lots, however we're all too busy looking for reasons to knock that to do something about it. And it's good that you mention the precarious positions of clubs, it's going to be the one constant we can be proud of in Ireland, though apart from the mention of the 65% cap, and dependence on single sources of revenue, everyone avoids it. Though you do have a very valid point in the local councils reaching out to clubs in their region/jurisdiction. This would be a major start, or finish, but no matter what it would have an impact.
passerrby
12/02/2011, 12:21 PM
eelmonster, if you find any posts condescending it's because you choose to, none would be or set out to be. There are plenty of people who enjoy seeing other clubs crash and burn, which typifies football in Ireland and why the LOI is in the state it's in. What is most disgusting is the attitude of, well, the FAI let it all happen. Wrong, clubs and those following or supporting them are to blame, and this culture will continue. Your own snide aside about Fingannon CC is just an extension of what many people thought from the beginning, so what could have been done? Lots, however we're all too busy looking for reasons to knock that to do something about it. And it's good that you mention the precarious positions of clubs, it's going to be the one constant we can be proud of in Ireland, though apart from the mention of the 65% cap, and dependence on single sources of revenue, everyone avoids it. Though you do have a very valid point in the local councils reaching out to clubs in their region/jurisdiction. This would be a major start, or finish, but no matter what it would have an impact.
Im one of does who enoy watching overspending clubs crash and burn but am at a loss to understand why i am responsable for the state of the leage
eelmonster
12/02/2011, 12:47 PM
those following or supporting them are to blame
This is utter nonsense, but please continue: how exactly are League of Ireland supporters responsible for the demise of Fingal?
I think the crucial difference between SF and the Bohs meltdown, and as I remember Derry City's similar meltdown before they reformed, is the fact that SF called it a day and didn't drag it along in the vain hope of surviving even if it meant defaulting on players wages. There is much less for McGuinness to speak out about when a club folds but in doing so had paid its players up to the point it shut down.
the biggest issue for McGuinness and the Bohs players was the signed contract for the coming season and the settlement of same. That McGuinness has been silent on a worse situation created by Sporting Fingal speaks volumes of the schyster in my honest biased and paranoid opinion.
Fingal are gone. There's absolutely nothing McGuinness can do about it. Complaining about it serves no purpose.
Bohs are not gone. They expect to compete next season, in the premier league. Complaining about them heightens media attention on them and puts pressure on them in relation to doing a deal that is good for his members.
There's a fairly big difference
But not even a comment from McGuinness about how disgraceful Fingal's behaviour was?
Wow.
But not even a comment from McGuinness about how disgraceful Fingal's behaviour was?
Wow.
Again, what would the purpose of it be? I'm sure if he's asked or interviewed that he'd say it was a disgrace but there's not exactly a point to a press release on it. It wouldn't benefit his members in any way.
Now if Fingal had done this and then tried to apply for a licence, for any division, I think the reaction would have been different.
i suppose it depends on what your perspective is. I think that it is a case of two individual clubs who were not able to meet their contractual obligations for the coming season. And i see double standards in the way the players representative chose to remark or deal with the two situations. There may be no point complaining about it but, from his perspective as a representative of all players registered to play in the 2 leagues, there would be a lot to be said for highlighting yet another case of ill treatment of the players by a club. Its what any Union i have ever dealt with is very quick to do irrespective of the merits or otherwise of each instance of "ill treatment".
Either way, im not too bothered really. And certainly not surprised by it.
HulaHoop
12/02/2011, 2:37 PM
I'm sure it's no consolation Stu but McGuinness and the PFAI were absolute c***s to us too when we were in trouble in 2005 only to treat other clubs more favourably in the years after that.
de bowez
12/02/2011, 2:56 PM
McGuinness wont be welcome in Dalymount for a long time after his Playstation comment.
The Lep
12/02/2011, 5:32 PM
You should have warned Fingal County Council and Gannon. The league would have been in a stronger position if Fingannon CC had reached out to established north FDublin clubs instead of indulging their Sporting Folly. In any case, you're preaching to the choir, most fans aren't as stupid as some of your more condescending posts imply and understand only too well the precarious financial position of their clubs.
Fingal isnt just North Dublin and i cant see how the league would have been stronger.
the biggest issue for McGuinness and the Bohs players was the signed contract for the coming season and the settlement of same. That McGuinness has been silent on a worse situation created by Sporting Fingal speaks volumes of the schyster in my honest biased and paranoid opinion.
He hasnt been silent, hes talked about it in the papers.
fair enough if he has but i havent read anything from him at all.
The Lep
12/02/2011, 5:36 PM
i suppose it depends on what your perspective is. I think that it is a case of two individual clubs who were not able to meet their contractual obligations for the coming season. And i see double standards in the way the players representative chose to remark or deal with the two situations. There may be no point complaining about it but, from his perspective as a representative of all players registered to play in the 2 leagues, there would be a lot to be said for highlighting yet another case of ill treatment of the players by a club. Its what any Union i have ever dealt with is very quick to do irrespective of the merits or otherwise of each instance of "ill treatment".
Either way, im not too bothered really. And certainly not surprised by it.
It doesnt sound like it.
The Lep
12/02/2011, 5:37 PM
fair enough if he has but i havent read anything from him at all.
So in your book, if you havent read or heard about it then it didnt happen?
nope. Didnt say that at all.
It doesnt sound like it.
wow. Busted. Im actually really really bothered about it. You got me.
This one is just for you The Lep.
KASR9ejwQWw
The Lep
12/02/2011, 6:44 PM
Ive have nothing to do with either of them teams so its a pointless post stu. :)
The Lep
12/02/2011, 6:47 PM
the biggest issue for McGuinness and the Bohs players was the signed contract for the coming season and the settlement of same. That McGuinness has been silent on a worse situation created by Sporting Fingal speaks volumes of the schyster in my honest biased and paranoid opinion.
But not even a comment from McGuinness about how disgraceful Fingal's behaviour was?
Wow.
nope. Didnt say that at all.
Sounds like it to me.
Sounds like it to me.
while youre quoting, could you quote the post where i said...
if you havent read or heard about it then it didnt happen?
if i havent read or heard about it then i simply havent read or heard about it.
The Lep
12/02/2011, 6:52 PM
Thats fair enough but then you cant post that Mcguiness hasnt said a word about it then can you.
Of course i can. You can have an opinion based on what you know. As you acquire more facts your opinion can change.
What has McGuinness said anyway? Do you have any direct quotes? As it stands all i have is your post saying that he was in the paper and Dunny saying he was on the radio. I still have no idea what he is supposed to have said.
The Lep
12/02/2011, 7:06 PM
Pick a paper Stu and google it . An opinon based on what you know is fine but not when you are having a pop at an individual when you dont know if what your comments are true or not.
Oldred
12/02/2011, 7:10 PM
Settle down kids. No more squabbling !!
An opinon based on what you know is fine.
thanks.
Pick a paper Stu and google it .
ill take your word for it. Whatever it was that he said wasnt as vigorous as his condemnation of Bohs, thats for sure. Or else id have noticed.
The Lep
12/02/2011, 7:17 PM
Its Bohs you are talking about ;)
born2bwild
12/02/2011, 9:44 PM
Well, I was so depressed I took to the bed when I heard the news and only now am I crawling out.
Some might say that that Fingal had no support, that they were makey uppy, that they were a rich man's plaything. Others may choose to remember SFFC in this way but I know better.
The reality was we played the best football in the league. The reality was we made real efforts to work in the community with schools and local clubs. The reality was that we had as many fans as you could hope to have in 3 short years and those fans we had were as loud and enthusiastic as anyone else's.
The recession and financial mismanagement killed us and I am speechless. I think I know what Bill Shankly meant about football not being a matter of life and death.
Spudulika
13/02/2011, 8:53 AM
This is utter nonsense, but please continue: how exactly are League of Ireland supporters responsible for the demise of Fingal?
Please re-read my post and don't please quote out of context. The simple point is this: clubs overstretch, mess up and we as supporters are too often to blame - happy to keep cheering when winning and giving the finger to other clubs and supporters. The FAI allows this tribal nonsense to go on as it's all part of a "healthy rivalry" and to lift the league, when it all goes belly up these same people will blame the FAI and "others" instead of looking at what they themselves cold have done. I saw it over the years with Dundalk and there was always a bogeyman. SF have their bogeymen while the FAI, PFAI and other will always take a smack, though supporters will suffer on in martyrdom. So I hope this explains it a little easier for you, it's certainly quite a distance from the context from which you extrapolated.
osarusan
13/02/2011, 9:21 AM
The simple point is this: clubs overstretch, mess up and we as supporters are too often to blame - happy to keep cheering when winning and giving the finger to other clubs and supporters.
I don't see any link between the clubs overstretching and the supporters cheering. I'm a supporter of Limerick FC, but that's all. I have absolutely no say whatsoever in anything the club does. I can only hope that the people in charge know what they're doing.
You seem to want to portray Fingal's demise as symptomatic of a league-wide problem (and to the extent that their problems stemmed from overspending, it is a problem in the league) but the fact remains that Fingal's implosion is almost totally down to Fingal themselves, not the fans of their or any other club.
Spudulika
13/02/2011, 9:36 AM
Osarusan, every club's demise or success is individual, earlier I ensured that this is not a doubt. Each club has it's own model, many are similar but all can be rendered unsustainable with a few small twists in the tail. However supporters do have the power to rein in their club, rein in the league and rein in the FAI, however it's much easier to just complain. The point about the clubs overstretching and supporters cheering is that if a club is winning, supporters will be less concerned about apocalyptic consequences and in the main defend what's going on. It's probably a point to make a difference between fans and supporters, though this gets blurred even with the best of intentions. Every supporter has a say in their club, though I am on board with you when you say you can only hope that those in charge know what they're doing. It's the same all the way up to the FAI.
On a kind of parallel point, I heard somebody on a tv show (election related) saying that there was this belief that somebody somewhere was going to come up with a solution to the financial ills we face now. This kind of communal transfer of responsibility to "someone else", whether it's a facet of human nature or not I don't know, but it could well be.
peadar1987
13/02/2011, 10:38 AM
Spudulika, that would be true if "the fans" were a united body who all pulled in the one direction, but we're not. You can blame LOI fans as a group, but blaming any individual ones not in a position of power just seems wrong. So long as you have so many different agents all acting in supposed self-interest, you're always going to have some of them overreaching and gambling that the money they are spending will lead to success, and the arms race starts all over again. The fans have very little power to do anything about this, however, the FAI, as organising authority, do. That's why everybody looks to them for a solution, not as a psychological defence mechanism, but because they're the ones with the wherewithall to make a difference.
pineapple stu
13/02/2011, 10:40 AM
However supporters do have the power to rein in their club, rein in the league and rein in the FAI
On a kind of parallel point, I heard somebody on a tv show (election related) saying that there was this belief that somebody somewhere was going to come up with a solution to the financial ills we face now.
Your fist point is complete drivel, but let's entertain it for the moment. How do you think supporters can "rein in" the FAI? Let's have some concrete examples.
On your second point, this is another wcm special - can't remember the programme name? How convenient. I suspect you're making that up.
pineapple stu
13/02/2011, 10:44 AM
Spudulika, that would be true if "the fans" were a united body who all pulled in the one direction,.
I don't actually agree with this, by the way. I don't think you could argue Supporters Direct or Stand Up Sit Down have reined in the Premier League. All the FAI have to do is ignore any demands, keep doing what they're doing and there's actually not much you can do about it.
OneForTheFuture
13/02/2011, 10:45 AM
Not weecountyman again??
peadar1987
13/02/2011, 11:45 AM
I don't actually agree with this, by the way. I don't think you could argue Supporters Direct or Stand Up Sit Down have reined in the Premier League. All the FAI have to do is ignore any demands, keep doing what they're doing and there's actually not much you can do about it.
The LOI is far more dependent on matchday revenue than the big Premier League clubs though, so I think proportionally, matchgoing fans would have more power over here than in the UK. It's all down to opinion though.
pineapple stu
13/02/2011, 12:01 PM
The LoI clubs are at the whim of the FAI though, and the FAI aren't really dependent on the LoI for Revenue (the interesting debate about prize money v sponsorship aside)
Buile Shuibhne
13/02/2011, 2:06 PM
An excellent summary of the Franchise folly:
Yet over the past few weeks the sheer lunacy of the venture was laid bare. They had known that Gerry Gannon's money was on a temporary basis from the beginning, yet there's little evidence that any contingency plans were put in place. When Gannon hit the skids last year, the club proceeded on the basis that new investment would appear from somewhere. Anywhere. Last month Liam Buckley was still signing new players. Two weeks ago a commercial director was appointed. What strain of madness had gripped them? While they believed they were close to signing a sponsorship deal with a UK-based firm that would net them €170,000 a year, that would merely have put a small dent in an annual budget believed to be in excess of €750,000. How did they envisage meeting the shortfall? By filling Dalymount Park every home game? Perhaps they fancied a sustained, lucrative run in the Europa League? Over the previous three seasons Gannon had ploughed €2m into the club. Without that money, Sporting Fingal were goosed. The equation was as simple as that.
Why the farce was allowed to continue as long as it did is an indictment not just of those who ran the club, but of the Council that facilitated them. From the evidence of Fingal Council meetings it is clear that the close relationship between the Council and the club was a source of unease to several councillors and questions about it popped up on a regular basis. ............
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/cautionary-tale-of-fingals-demise-an-all-too-familiar-one-2538026.html?service=Print
peadar1987
13/02/2011, 2:20 PM
It still baffles me why Fingal went with the tried and tested model for failure. With Gannon's money, they had the opportunity to try something different, invest it in training facilities, a tidy stadium at the heart of the community, and a big media campaign to get punters through the gates.
Come to think of it, Gannon's money would have been better invested in a national campaign of hyping up the league before each season, rather than wages for a club which, with the greatest of respect, looks set to disappear with barely a ripple.
The Lep
13/02/2011, 2:29 PM
An excellent summary of the Franchise folly:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/cautionary-tale-of-fingals-demise-an-all-too-familiar-one-2538026.html?service=Print
You post a lot from the indo dont you. Do you work for them?
The Northside People id say.
Lamper.sffc
13/02/2011, 5:04 PM
It still baffles me why Fingal went with the tried and tested model for failure. With Gannon's money, they had the opportunity to try something different, invest it in training facilities, a tidy stadium at the heart of the community, and a big media campaign to get punters through the gates.
Come to think of it, Gannon's money would have been better invested in a national campaign of hyping up the league before each season, rather than wages for a club which, with the greatest of respect, looks set to disappear with barely a ripple.
Because ultimately the people making the decisions where morons. It became a vanity project and when it was mentioned to them to reduce the playing budget, these suggestions fell on deaf ears. They ruined what could have been a very good club in the long run. They took the original clubs ethos and pi$$ed all over it and now they get to walk away leaving the staff, players and fans without a club. Idiots
pauliek
13/02/2011, 7:17 PM
It was a great day for Irish football.
The worst day off my life was when Fingal bet us in the Cup final, it made it worse the way their fans ''celebrated'', they didnt give a ****, it was a day out for them and that was hard to take
Spudulika
13/02/2011, 8:20 PM
Spudulika, that would be true if "the fans" were a united body who all pulled in the one direction, but we're not. You can blame LOI fans as a group, but blaming any individual ones not in a position of power just seems wrong. So long as you have so many different agents all acting in supposed self-interest, you're always going to have some of them overreaching and gambling that the money they are spending will lead to success, and the arms race starts all over again. The fans have very little power to do anything about this, however, the FAI, as organising authority, do. That's why everybody looks to them for a solution, not as a psychological defence mechanism, but because they're the ones with the wherewithall to make a difference.
In a large way you're right, the fans are always seen as some grouping who are in it for the club, though it's not always the case. I agree totally that this arms race effect or MAD always will play out when clubs try to compete, though while the FAI have the authority, I don't know if they are always best placed to provide a solution, not disputing that they're not just a psychological defence mechanism. I still stand by it that fans/supporters do have the power to make a change, if not the whole group, but a substantial number. Then again it might be a bit too pollyanna to look at it this way. It's just frustrating to see the same old situations crop up time and again only in different guises.
Charlie Darwin
13/02/2011, 8:57 PM
It was a great day for Irish football.
The worst day off my life was when Fingal bet us in the Cup final, it made it worse the way their fans ''celebrated'', they didnt give a ****, it was a day out for them and that was hard to take
You're annoyed they didn't fall to their knees and thank the Lord?
The Lep
13/02/2011, 9:06 PM
It was a great day for Irish football.
The worst day off my life was when Fingal bet us in the Cup final, it made it worse the way their fans ''celebrated'', they didnt give a ****, it was a day out for them and that was hard to take
It was a day out for most of your day trippers as well. It made my day when i saw all the sligo cars clamped at the garage because they was too mean to pay €2 in the car park :) You seriously need to get over it at this stage.
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