Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[oriel]

It is always sad to see a club fold, but I`m not going to change my tune now, I dont think they offered much to the league in general and I disliked their set up from the start. I dont think you will ever see another club like them enter the league. I dont think there is an appetite for what they were trying to achieve and for what they had on offer.

I do feel sorry for decent football guys like the Lep and Lamper, both of who argued and made admirable points about their club, and I have to say I have really enjoyed their contributions. I do hope both lads do continue to stay on as their views were interesting to read.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

It was the failure of the club to cut back accordingly after Gannon was gone that was the major problem. Better to be fighting relegation this season than not fighting at all.

Fully agree

[Shedendinvisibl]

surely the fai and the licencing committee have to take there share of the blame for fingal failing??? they allowed them enter the league on an unsustainable model which i think 90% of people on here predicted would not work long term but still granted them a licence every year without too many questions, surely fingal and the bohs situation shows that the licencing is basically a joke and is pointless??

We can blame the FAI for a lot of the woes in the game here but there is two things that they can't be blamed over; they are not the ones writing out the players pay cheques and they are not the ones cashing the cheques. Clubs know well that they are on a tightrope paying silly money while the players are the ones shaking the rope on the clubs and demanding more money, both areas that the FAI will never have any control over unless central contracts are looked into a la the IRFU or perhaps the American soccer model of a pool system.

[athloneman]

We can blame the FAI for a lot of the woes in the game here but there is two things that they can't be blamed over; they are not the ones writing out the players pay cheques and they are not the ones cashing the cheques. Clubs know well that they are on a tightrope paying silly money while the players are the ones shaking the rope on the clubs and demanding more money, both areas that the FAI will never have any control over unless central contracts are looked into a la the IRFU or perhaps the American soccer model of a pool system.

if the powers that be had any brains in there heads when they first invited/promoted fingal into the league they should have been told that there model was unsustainable and that they should built slowly and build a following and a fan base and generate a steady stream income!! instead they were allowed to spend stupid money chasing glory and lasted 3 years in the league, it cannot just be fingals fault that the club went bust there were allowed spend the money!!

[John83]

It was the failure of the club to cut back accordingly after Gannon was gone that was the major problem. Better to be fighting relegation this season than not fighting at all.
I don't know about that. There were, what, 8 or 9 full time players on existing contracts? Even if some of those guys had been offloaded (possibly Fingal would be left topping up their wages for the season), I would have anticipated the club making a substantial loss this year, though the resulting debt might have been manageable (Longford, for example, seem to have been a good model for this in the past few years). I guess it depends on how much notice they had that Gannon was going.

[Fingalstan]

The power wheel chair team and special olympics team will still wear the colours of sporting fingal with pride please god and who knows that could be very well the beginning of a smaller club that can build up a fan base and reputation. I will still support Fingal in whatever shape or form they are in and will never forget the magic morton nights. I'll miss the lights the most, seeing them as you walked into morton by the chip van gave you that buzz of live football!

SFFC away away away!

[Dodge]

To answer the original question; yes

[Shedendinvisibl]

if the powers that be had any brains in there heads when they first invited/promoted fingal into the league they should have been told that there model was unsustainable and that they should built slowly and build a following and a fan base and generate a steady stream income!! instead they were allowed to spend stupid money chasing glory and lasted 3 years in the league, it cannot just be fingals fault that the club went bust there were allowed spend the money!!

From what I am told, (Have a friend who is a high profile FAI official, that's all I'll say about him or her) so long as a club puts forward a set of proposed figures and a projected income that is theoretically plausible then the FAI are powerless to object to the figures that the clubs show them bar for the 65% cap, even when they know it's dodgy. The clubs know that the players won't sign unless they can talk it up and make good cash offers while the players are grabbing monies when they are there and clubs are willing to offer silly sums to get their man over another club; look at the Derry debacle for what levels they are willing to go to.

Fingals problem were as simple as they paying too much in wages while earning too little cash from the word go; it took two bad strokes of to wipe it all away from them.

[The Lep]

I Blame Kilkenny.

[Buile Shuibhne]

as far as i know rocketman, it wont. We apparently were supposed to and did receive some of the payment upfront. The rest was receiveable over the remaining years of the deal. I cant confirm that we did receive the payment however.


Presumably the rent money was included in Bohs budget for their licence application.

I'd imagine it will now have to be swiftly revised downwards before Sunday?

[MariborKev]

so long as a club puts forward a set of proposed figures and a projected income that is theoretically plausible then the FAI are powerless to object to the figures that the clubs show them bar for the 65% cap, even when they know it's dodgy.

Yer mate is talking through his hat.

Clubs have had budgets rejected on criteria other than the 65% cap.

[peadar1987]

Other countries get by just fine with much less stringent rules than the FAI's. We seem to have the dual-problem of small and poorly-organised supporters (at most clubs) and owners/boards who are intent on following the English spend spend spend model without any of the stabilisers (huge TV revenue, larger crowds) that English clubs enjoy.

Hopefully this is the last of the big-spending, given that so much of the madness that engulfed the league in the last decade was driven by the property boom.

Other countries' clubs don't seem quite so hell-bent on exterminating themselves though. The LOI clubs have shown time and again that when left to their own devices, they overspend and get into trouble. They also don't have a long queue of billionaires looking for a plaything, which is the main thing that has prevented several major English clubs from going under recently.

[passerrby]

while the league will be no worse off by the departure of sporting it will however be the worse for losing supoorters like lamper and the lep . really am sorry we are at this point

[legendz]

I hope Fingal can rebuild. Clubs have rebuilt before. I know other clubs have been around for longer which helped but still, it'll be great to see Fingal comeback as a a club for their area to promote the game in that region. Any club falling from the league like this is sad to hear.
Castlebar's withdrawal from the A Championship didn't receive much news. It seems to be a good level for clubs to find out if they can make it in the league. Cobh have used it as well. Where would they be without it? The FAI needs to work with clubs at this level, not just bring the curtain down on this league.

[monkey9]

I have to say, i'm not gonna come on here and be all hypocritical and say how sorry i am to the Fingal fans for the fact that their four year 'project' as Liam Buckley put it has come to an end. There was always one way the Sporting Fingal franchise was gonna end and here we are now. The inevitable abyss.

Feeling sorry for the fans?? Were we not told by Fingal fans around November or so that "i know something that you don't :) ) Well, what the f*ck was that?

This sh!t needs to end and i just wish the FAI would get a f*cking interest in it's own league to stop bullsh!t franchises like Fingal getting a first stop to nowhere!!

[Lamper.sffc]

I don't know about that. (1) There were, what, 8 or 9 full time players on existing contracts? Even if some of those guys had been offloaded (possibly Fingal would be left topping up their wages for the season), I would have anticipated the club making a substantial loss this year, though the resulting debt might have been manageable (Longford, for example, seem to have been a good model for this in the past few years). (2) I guess it depends on how much notice they had that Gannon was going.

(1) With little or no effort in trying to offload them. Williams being a prime example when we seemingly turned down an offer and then on top of all that we offer O Neil a two year 52 week contract just so he will stay with us. We also payed for Dalymount up front if reports are to be believed.

(2) Believe me when I tell you, they had plenty of time and thats fact also. They gambled with the future of the club and they knew they where doing it. It was an all or nothing decision on their part. God forbid we would of had to put up with some seasons of mediocrity possibly at a lower level, at least the fans would have a club right now.

Edit: Apologies John. Rant not at you btw

[Charlie Darwin]

(1) With little or no effort in trying to offload them. Williams being a prime example when we seemingly turned down an offer and then on top of all that we offer O Neil a two year 52 week contract just so he will stay with us. We also payed for Dalymount up front if reports are to be believed.

(2) Believe me when I tell you, they had plenty of time and thats fact also. They gambled with the future of the club and they knew they where doing it. It was an all or nothing decision on their part. God forbid we would of had to put up with some seasons of mediocrity possibly at a lower level, at least the fans would have a club right now.

Edit: Apologies John. Rant not at you btw
Seriously??

[SkStu]

Presumably the rent money was included in Bohs budget for their licence application.

I'd imagine it will now have to be swiftly revised downwards before Sunday?

only if we havent already spent it. We received the first year up front AFAIK (though lampers post suggests we received the whole lot) and the rest would have been for future seasons budget id say.

[Charlie Darwin]

There's no way you'd have got the whole lot up front. I think Lamps was suggesting the first year was paid up front (which is still bogey as hell, especially for a club that was still trying to secure sponsorship).

[Lamper.sffc]

There's no way you'd have got the whole lot up front. I think Lamps was suggesting the first year was paid up front (which is still bogey as hell, especially for a club that was still trying to secure sponsorship).

Sorry yeah. From what iv been reading it was the first year up front. Again if its to be believed. But iv heard it from multiple sources so there seems to be some truth to it.

[SkStu]

There's no way you'd have got the whole lot up front. I think Lamps was suggesting the first year was paid up front (which is still bogey as hell, especially for a club that was still trying to secure sponsorship).

i didnt think we did. I was just pointing out Lampers comment. The first year up front may have been something we insisted upon due to our precarious cash flow issue at the time. Again, nobody seems to know for sure if we did receive a payment from Fingal.

[nigel-harps1954]

All I can say is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrUB0g8Vjgg

[bullit]

All I can say is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrUB0g8Vjgg
"What you gonna do when the money runs out"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3duCIFbA5k

[Shedendinvisibl]

Yer mate is talking through his hat.

Clubs have had budgets rejected on criteria other than the 65% cap.

Well oddly enough I never mentioned any other criteria, just the 65% cap. Or in Derrys case, the 85% cap as well.

[pineapple stu]

Amazing that it could come to an end so quickly.
Yeah, it is. I think it shows that there was no appetite for struggling along with an amateur team. It does seem to have been about winning more so than the taking part. No harm that the people involved in running the club are gone.


Surely this is a sign that the 65% cap just isn't enough. We've lost at least 4 clubs since it's come in, and many more have gone close. We need more stringent financial rules, and we need them to be enforced.
I don't think Fingal's problems would have been caught by the 65% rule in fairness. Last year, one person gives them enough money that they make the 65% rule. This year, he goes and they've no money. That can't really be caught by the 65% rule.

[drummerboy]

Have to say I'm sorry for the players and supporters of SF. However I'm not sorry for the people who run the club or their partners in Fingal Co Co. The club who had played in Morton for 15 years were shafted by these people, who told us we couldn't share the pitch because it wasn't practical. Then they planned to rent Dalymount from Bohs. A fitting end.

[marinobohs]

(1) Yeah, it is. I think it shows that there was no appetite for struggling along with an amateur team. It does seem to have been about winning more so than the taking part. No harm that the people involved in running the club are gone.


(2) I don't think Fingal's problems would have been caught by the 65% rule in fairness. Last year, one person gives them enough money that they make the 65% rule. This year, he goes and they've no money. That can't really be caught by the 65% rule.

(1) I suspect SF business model was to attract support by immediate success and they acknowledged that they did not have the traditional support base (ie Lifers :o) to stick around if things were not going well on the field. Hence, just competing was never going to be enough.
(2) As Stu says 65% rule was not the problem for SF. The departure of one invester/sugar daddy/SF loving soccer fan (delete as appropriate) in Gannon led to them seeking an alternative money tree ant indeed thinking they had found one in the UK company. Unfortunately they spent/commited before making sure that the deal was done and when the UK benifactor withdrew they were stumped.
The only way the FAI could have prevented this was (a) foresee that the sponsorship deal would not go ahead (not sure how this would occur - crystal ball ?) or (b) change the rules so that clubs must have more income streams and not be dependent on one. While in theory this may be a great idea, anything that makes life more difficult for clubs is likely to meet opposition from clubs. Given the eggs in one basket model of SF and others there is always a risk if the source dries up (especially when commitments have already been made). not sure what the FAI can do to prevent it.

In respect of the players, some form of insurance against clubs collapsing (income continuance) would help but who would pay the premiums ? Clubs/FAI/Pfai ? Not sure if any of them could afford it

[Martinho II]

Have to say I'm sorry for the players and supporters of SF. However I'm not sorry for the people who run the club or their partners in Fingal Co Co. The club who had played in Morton for 15 years were shafted by these people, who told us we couldn't share the pitch because it wasn't practical. Then they planned to rent Dalymount from Bohs. A fitting end.

forgot drummerboy that drumcondra were shafted from morton stadium for fingal.. where did ye move to in the end and will ye move back to the morton?

[drummerboy]

forgot drummerboy that drumcondra were shafted from morton stadium for fingal.. where did ye move to in the end and will ye move back to the morton?

I'm not involved any more but Drums are playing down beside Home Farm in Whitehall and managed by Gary Howlett. Think they have been sounded out about a return but thats all I know. Thankfully Fingal Co Council no longer have any interest in the stadium.

[passerrby]

one of the nicest guys in the game

[Hairy Bowsie]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2isiir4.gif

[peadar1987]

You know, you should post on the boards more, Hairy Bowsey. Everybody loves and values your contributions so much!

[cheech]

The whole club was built on sand and it was only a matter of time before the tide came in.

Dublin and the surrounding areas were already over saturated with league clubs. FAI as much to blame for letting the franchise into the league in the first place.

[Cuyahoga]

The whole club was built on sand and it was only a matter of time before the tide came in.

Dublin and the surrounding areas were already over saturated with league clubs. FAI as much to blame for letting the franchise into the league in the first place.
I agree totally . Also if you have very few fans youre up against it from the start. The difference between Fingal and established clubs is they dont have the fans to help them out ie to buy shares,form a members club etc.

[btid1]

One question:

Where is the righteous indignation from Pineapple Stu etc about the way the poor players have been treated?

Stephen McGuinness must be apoplectic with rage, yet he is strangely silent?!!

[Fingalstan]

while its unfortunate for the players to have lost their jobs in such circumstances at least they were paid up to date of service so they weren't left to much in the lurch.

The majority of them will have no problem signing for new teams and even if its on lower wages there are people stuck on the dole who can't get off it, so a reduced wage is far better than the dole q!.

Its the staff of the club like the new ceo and community section that I feel sorry for, they won't walk into jobs as easy as the players!

[btid1]

while its unfortunate for the players to have lost their jobs in such circumstances at least they were paid up to date of service so they weren't left to much in the lurch.

The majority of them will have no problem signing for new teams and even if its on lower wages there are people stuck on the dole who can't get off it, so a reduced wage is far better than the dole q!.

Its the staff of the club like the new ceo and community section that I feel sorry for, they won't walk into jobs as easy as the players!

What about those who signed new (52 week) contracts in recent weeks?Bohs offered to pay up players contracts and got abused from the high heavens for playing hard ball in the negotiations.

I just think its funny how the same standards have not been applied in this case.

[D.24saint]

Bohs offered to pay up players contracts and got abused from the high heavens for playing hard ball in the negotiations.

well nobody likes you's ,fingal were not worth disliking

[btid1]

well nobody likes you's ,fingal were not worth disliking

Haha

Fair enough, glad we cleared that up!

[Magicme]

Go bust and everyone will be nicer to you.

[pineapple stu]

Where is the righteous indignation from Pineapple Stu etc about the way the poor players have been treated?
It's been mentioned earlier in the thread that Fingal's behaviour was an absolute disgrace. Fingal fans haven't denied that and aren't abusing their players for their astronomical wage demands killing their club. And at least Fingal resolved things quickly, and the players are already finding clubs.

[Charlie Darwin]

What about those who signed new (52 week) contracts in recent weeks?Bohs offered to pay up players contracts and got abused from the high heavens for playing hard ball in the negotiations.

I just think its funny how the same standards have not been applied in this case.
Well, like Fingalstan said, all wages have been paid to date. Any player that can't get a contract with another club will have a case to settle his contract but that seems unlikely.

[Fingalstan]

Haha

Fair enough, glad we cleared that up!

Ah i no man, i'm not saying for a moment that its not hard on the players who have signed but i was under the impression that in the bohs situation they owed players back dated wages? could be wrong on that tho. At least the lads got paid in full to the date they had worked and most will be back getting paid in a matter of weeks, my point was that unfortunately for the rest of the sffc staff that probably won't be the case.

either way tho its not right on anyone involved!

[bluemovie]

It's worth re-reading the first page of this thread from last March. I reacted with nods and cringing in equal measure. I think Longfordian was closest to the truth.

[Hairy Bowsie]

This is funny :)

He said that on page one of this thread, in reaction to an article that said Franchise could be in trouble.

"This is funny" - Who are you telling :D

[The Lep]

It was to the posts made not to the article but you know that dont you Hairy.

[Comic Book Guy]

Truest thing ive ever read on here. Nobody liked us for years we went bust and everybody liked us and wished us well. Fianna Fáil are hoping for the same :P

On a serious note i dont have time to read trhough these pages, sorry for Fingal fans, leaves a weirdly empty feeling inside you for a while( then you miss the LOI so much you fell you can try to support your nearest rivals instead, but after 5 minutes end up rooting for the away team and secretly consider forms of self harm for how much you left yourself down with such dirty dirty thoughts, then after a few months you feel the emptiness again so say you'll try support someone close to home but not too close so take a trip to Waterford, and before kick off you see all the judas "loyal" ex Rams players in the scummy blue and physically feel sick with yourself again. Then when you just give up all hope, BOOM one of the Dub teams drop out and all your hopes are raised and your as excited as a kid on Christmas day, cant wait to hear the announcements that your back in the beautiful 1st division. But we all know, chances are, again, we will be over looked. Back to the gutter!! We live in hope :P :) Well thats what ye have to look forward to, enjoy!!

Saying that the year we had in the A league last year was very enjoyable and the fact we done it with a young Cobh based team was as big a achievement as any over the last few years.

Spot on BVM, you summed up my thoughts exactly, I would love it if we were back in as would any right thinking Ramblers fan, we're like the hungry mangy dog outside the back door hoping for scraps to be thrown:eek:
Bear in mind that we had a very decent crowd for the play-off game last November and when you consider our club has been through the wringer in the last 2 years I think it's only proper that we get to take our rightful place in the LOI.
If you think back we were the football equivalent of Hiroshima in early 2009, I couldn't see much hope but Dave Hill has already put together a very promising young side, I know we wouldn't be much in the next 3/4 years but I think give us time and we will be back. God I hate the A-league, let us in please:weep:.

[cheech]

Go bust and everyone will be nicer to you.

Seek not the favour of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them.

[Magicme]

Seek not the favour of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them.

Thats why Mons are the best dam team in the land so! We dont have the multitude but the testimony of few is ours. Cheers cheech!

[Spudulika]

The "big" clubs in Ireland seem to hate the most because they can bring a dozen fans to an away game and the stadium announcer doesn't name the fans at home games. Small clubs are not hated because they are not threatening and can be used to pick up players on the cheap. Woe betide any club that pops their head above the parapet and try to improve themselves - whether by gambling (as is the norm) or trying to do something different. The word of caution in all this is enjoy your time on the tigers back.