View Full Version : Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up
OneForTheFuture
05/02/2011, 7:19 PM
Are you crying now but putting up a front?
Charlie Darwin
05/02/2011, 7:19 PM
I realise that you are possibly unaware of the extent of the offers that Buckley has made over the last 3 months.
Your attempt at a jibe in relation to what Byrne and Quigley are being paid by Dundalk is hilarious and ironic, especially as at least one of them had a "concrete" offer from SF. What do you think has the effect of that?
Well it suggests that both Fingal and Dundalk are inflating wages.
chigg89
05/02/2011, 7:22 PM
How in the name of God are Dundalk inflating wages!?What a stupid thing to say!!!
The Lep
05/02/2011, 7:23 PM
I realise that you are possibly unaware of the extent of the offers that Buckley has made over the last 3 months.
Your attempt at a jibe in relation to what Byrne and Quigley are being paid by Dundalk is hilarious and ironic, especially as at least one of them had a "concrete" offer from SF. What do you think has the effect of that?
Trust me im more aware than you on Fingal matters. If one of them had a "concrete offer " as you say then Dundalk must have offered more then surely.
The Lep
05/02/2011, 7:23 PM
Are you crying now but putting up a front?
Who?????
Hibs4Ever
05/02/2011, 7:27 PM
Yes. ;)
So Sporting Fingal lied when they released a statement saying they couldn't pay their players last week?
The Lep
05/02/2011, 7:29 PM
No, are you Vincent Browne?
OneForTheFuture
05/02/2011, 7:37 PM
Boo Who?????
Ok, sorry.
The Lep
05/02/2011, 7:40 PM
If you are going to edit posts then at least make them funny Mr Future.
Hibs4Ever
05/02/2011, 7:45 PM
So Sporting Fingal lied when they released a statement saying they couldn't pay their players last week?
No
So they can't afford to pay the players they've signed then?
OneForTheFuture
05/02/2011, 7:50 PM
Please, OneFor will do.
The Lep
05/02/2011, 7:51 PM
What are you going on about? You know full well the players have been paid, so now can i finish my ham sandwich please hibs?
Charlie Darwin
05/02/2011, 8:12 PM
How in the name of God are Dundalk inflating wages!?What a stupid thing to say!!!
Well if Fingal are inflating wages and Dundalk outbid them for a player...
Well if Fingal are inflating wages and Dundalk outbid them for a player...
They outbid us for Bolger
The Lep
05/02/2011, 8:17 PM
That doesnt mean Dundalk was offering him top money to start with.
Charlie Darwin
05/02/2011, 8:20 PM
They outbid us for Bolger
The person I was originally responding said that Fingal offered a deal to either Byrne or Quigley but the player chose to join Dundalk. I can only assume therefore that Dundalk offered more money (and probably a decent bit more to justify the extra travel involved). One team can't inflate wages by themselves - others have to join in and the implication is that Dundalk have.
chigg89
05/02/2011, 8:42 PM
no offense mate but ur talking through ur ass...sorry but somebody had to say it...
The person I was originally responding said that Fingal offered a deal to either Byrne or Quigley but the player chose to join Dundalk. I can only assume therefore that Dundalk offered more money (and probably a decent bit more to justify the extra travel involved). One team can't inflate wages by themselves - others have to join in and the implication is that Dundalk have.
I can tell you one thing, if a player is looking for big money in 2011, he wont be getting it with us, he will stand to get a better chance of getting paid, but travel expenses as you are suggesting, and big wages ? Are you nuts.
Our budget is so strict, we currently cant even recruit one, never mind two central defenders.
This policy of paying only what we can afford is not popular with some fans, but it is an idea that a lot of other clubs should give a go sometime.
Ezeikial
05/02/2011, 9:03 PM
The person I was originally responding said that Fingal offered a deal to either Byrne or Quigley but the player chose to join Dundalk. I can only assume therefore that Dundalk offered more money (and probably a decent bit more to justify the extra travel involved). One team can't inflate wages by themselves - others have to join in and the implication is that Dundalk have.
I understand your line of logic, but in this case the assumption happens to be incorrect. What actually happened here is that the player in question had offers from both clubs (the higher one being from SF). The difference was that Dundalk were prepared to sign him straight away, whereas SF were stalling on making good their offer (possibly the player in question was chastened by his recent experience of contracts not being honoured to team-mates)
The overall point is that when a number of clubs are bidding for players services it inflates the market (this is fairly obvious). With SF "offering" high value contracts when there was a strong possibility of not being in a position to honour, this effects other clubs who are trying to compete for these players.
Charlie Darwin
05/02/2011, 9:14 PM
I can tell you one thing, if a player is looking for big money in 2011, he wont be getting it with us, he will stand to get a better chance of getting paid, but travel expenses as you are suggesting, and big wages ? Are you nuts.
Our budget is so strict, we currently cant even recruit one, never mind two central defenders.
This policy of paying only what we can afford is not popular with some fans, but it is an idea that a lot of other clubs should give a go sometime.
I doubt anybody is paying big money to be honest, with the possible exception of a couple of well-known marquee players. Wage inflation doesn't necessarily mean paying more than you can afford either (it usually does though).
I understand your line of logic, but in this case the assumption happens to be incorrect. What actually happened here is that the player in question had offers from both clubs (the higher one being from SF). The difference was that Dundalk were prepared to sign him straight away, whereas SF were stalling on making good their offer (possibly the player in question was chastened by his recent experience of contracts not being honoured to team-mates)
The overall point is that when a number of clubs are bidding for players services it inflates the market (this is fairly obvious). With SF "offering" high value contracts when there was a strong possibility of not being in a position to honour, this effects other clubs who are trying to compete for these players.
Ah, OK. As I said I was specifically responding to a question asked by the original poster whose name escapes me now. Your scenario is very plausible, but even matching Fingal's terms would still count as inflation based on the rumours going around this thread. However, wouldn't either deal begin on the first week of the season rather than straight away?
My main point really is that Fingal can't unilaterally inflate wages - they'd have to be offering contracts to every player in the league to do that. It's not as if wages are massive in the league anymore anyway.
The Lep
05/02/2011, 9:15 PM
What high value contracts are you on about? Do you know for sure or are you just reading between the lines ? Its simple Dundalk was paying the player from before xmas so he wasn never going to sign for Fingal then was he. He is on a 52 week contract with Dundalk from that date.
Ezeikial
05/02/2011, 9:49 PM
Wage inflation doesn't necessarily mean paying more than you can afford either (it usually does though).
Agree totally. It is up to clubs to be responsible and not pay more then what fits with the budget.
Your scenario is very plausible, but even matching Fingal's terms would still count as inflation based on the rumours going around this thread.
As it happens in this case, the Fingal offer was not matched - it was lower (see post above)
My main point really is that Fingal can't unilaterally inflate wages - they'd have to be offering contracts to every player in the league to do that. It's not as if wages are massive in the league anymore anyway.
Theoretically correct, but in practise?
Player A has a "phantom" offer of say €1,000 a week from one club. Another club wants to offer him say €600. If the original "phantom" offer was not there the 2nd club is more likely to be able to sign him closer to €600 then €1,000. That is wage inflation IF the 2nd club complete the signing. It also creates the vacum where an alternative player for the position can possibly negotiate a higher wage then what would otherwise be the case.
We have witnessed this in practise over the years from when Shels started the "arms race" and others tried to keep pace.
He is on a 52 week contract with Dundalk from that date.
I think the Beatles were a promising little skiffle band when this last happened at Dundalk
The Lep
05/02/2011, 9:59 PM
Its inflation if wages are more than last year which isnt the case with us.
When did he actually sign for Dundalk?
Guinney
05/02/2011, 10:00 PM
What high value contracts are you on about? Do you know for sure or are you just reading between the lines ? Its simple Dundalk was paying the player from before xmas so he wasn never going to sign for Fingal then was he. He is on a 52 week contract with Dundalk from that date.
Dundalks players only got paid from 20th January. In fact Dundalk where the first to start pre-season training in the league which began on the 10th January to accommodate the fact we will be starting earlier than expected as where playing Linfield in the Setanta cup, however they trained for these 10 days without been paid.
Source: http://dundalkfc.com/news/110111_Foster.asp
The Lep
05/02/2011, 10:04 PM
Then why was the player in question being paid before xmas by dundalk? Was this to make sure he signs or to make it difficult for anyone else to sign him?
Guinney
05/02/2011, 10:19 PM
Then why was the player in question being paid before xmas by dundalk? Was this to make sure he signs or to make it difficult for anyone else to sign him?
Don't know where this is mentioned, maybe it is but can't see it anywhere. As I already said no Dundalk player was paid before 20th January no matter when they signed their contract. If this was otherwise stated it is wrong, the link I put up previously would prove this.
Ezeikial
05/02/2011, 10:22 PM
Then why was the player in question being paid before xmas by dundalk? Was this to make sure he signs or to make it difficult for anyone else to sign him?
Crikey.....Fosters cunning plan has been cruely exposed........ sign all available LoI players to make it difficult for other clubs.
Jeez he is 16 signed already - only about 100 more to go
Charlie Darwin
05/02/2011, 10:23 PM
Theoretically correct, but in practise?
Player A has a "phantom" offer of say €1,000 a week from one club. Another club wants to offer him say €600. If the original "phantom" offer was not there the 2nd club is more likely to be able to sign him closer to €600 then €1,000. That is wage inflation IF the 2nd club complete the signing. It also creates the vacum where an alternative player for the position can possibly negotiate a higher wage then what would otherwise be the case.
We have witnessed this in practise over the years from when Shels started the "arms race" and others tried to keep pace.
That's just a function of contract negotiations though - it only works if it's plausible to believe that the other club will pay what's been quoted. Seemingly Dundalk called this player's bluff because they (rightly it appears) doubted Fingal's ability to pay. The press release of the last week (even though it's been resolved) will have weakened Fingal's position further.
That's not to say Fingal aren't involved in inflating wages - just saying that if clubs keep their heads then wages don't necessarily get inflated. Wage inflation is only really a big issue when a lot of clubs are going for the same players. Quigley and Byrne probably wouldn't interest the top two, and Pat's have priced themselves out of the established players market, so really Fingal and Dundalk are the only teams competing for that level of player.
The Lep
05/02/2011, 10:24 PM
Crikey.....Fosters cunning plan has been cruely exposed........ sign all available LoI players to make it difficult for other clubs.
Jeez he is 16 signed already - only about 100 more to go
Nobody is talking about all the players are they.
Ezeikial
05/02/2011, 11:03 PM
so really Fingal and Dundalk are the only teams competing for that level of player.
Sporting Fingal and....
Shamrock Rovers - Gary O'Neill
Sligo Rovers - Alan Kirby
Dundalk - Greg Bolger
Shall I go on....
Sporting Fingal and......
Sligo Rovers - Jason McGuinness
Sligo Rovers - Killian Brennan
Shamrock Rovers - Ken Oman
Charlie Darwin
05/02/2011, 11:17 PM
I wouldn't put Quigley in the same bracket as those players and Byrne is on a downward slope. I could be proved wrong but I would be shocked if Rovers or Sligo had expressed an interest in either player.
Ezeikial
05/02/2011, 11:56 PM
I wouldn't put Quigley in the same bracket as those players and Byrne is on a downward slope. I could be proved wrong but I would be shocked if Rovers or Sligo had expressed an interest in either player.
You missed my point. I am not debating what other clubs might have been interested in Byrne or Quigley(or their "level")...simply giving you some examples of where Sporting Fingal were active in the market for players that Rovers and Sligo among others were also chasing or have signed (and consequently artificially distorting the potential wage demands)
Charlie Darwin
06/02/2011, 12:18 AM
Fair enough, valid point. But surely the fact Fingal have only been able to sign one player (two with the re-signing of O'Neil) is indicative of a certain failure to succeed? I just don't buy that Fingal are having this big distorting effect on wages (especially when my own team has more absolute spending power).
sparky12345678
06/02/2011, 9:58 AM
i wish SFFC the best in all this and hope that you pull through. As a fan of a LOI club, i am - by extension - a fan of the league and the last thing that the league needs is a club going under. Despite peoples opinions of SFFC and whether they should be in existence, the fact is that they are a club in the Premier division that represented the League with pride in Europe and we shouldnt be wishing any demise upon them. Just my opinion.
Exacly my point. Its clear that this league is having a lot of problems i dont see how hoping that a certain club collapses makes those problems go away.
Dodge
06/02/2011, 12:29 PM
Exacly my point. Its clear that this league is having a lot of problems i dont see how hoping that a certain club collapses makes those problems go away.
I don't see how it matters one way or the other
sparky12345678
06/02/2011, 2:20 PM
I don't see how it matters one way or the other
To make a political analogy. The PD's collapsed, Fianna Fáil is collapsing. We can all stand at the sideline, point and laugh at Fianna Fáil's slow but inevitable demise, we can sit back and watch Fine gael and/or Labour get into power and we can watch the same thing happen again and again (ie watch and laugh at football clubs collapsing all around you) and the country (ie the LOI) falls to its knee's.
Or we can work together and try and pressure for reform, for change and make sure that none of the corruption happens again.
Are you for fecking real?
If Fingla fail, it won't be because a few fans of other people want them to.
Thats my point. I'm not getting into a blow hard argument with you about the other ridiculous points you make. Suffice to say, you're wrong about pretty much everythign you've said.
The Lep
06/02/2011, 3:22 PM
In your opinion :)
Ciaran W
06/02/2011, 3:57 PM
Terrible to see this happening to another loi club, hopefully things can get resolved quick.
In your opinion :)
Of course. Do you often post opinions that aren't yours?
Are you for fecking real?
If Fingla fail, it won't be because a few fans of other people want them to.
Thats my point. I'm not getting into a blow hard argument with you about the other ridiculous points you make. Suffice to say, you're wrong about pretty much everythign you've said.
Couldn't agree more.
Also, the whole "why can't we be one big happy LoI family?" line is not something I'd buy into at all.
D.24saint
06/02/2011, 5:51 PM
Also, the whole "why can't we be one big happy LoI family?" line is not something I'd buy into at all.
Bought out of that after the whole registration debacle a few years back, Its every club for itself these days.Cant see how Fingal can be viable at premier level without owning their own ground the rent from Dalymount alone should be enough to bury them this season.
BonnieShels
06/02/2011, 8:08 PM
Of course. Do you often post opinions that aren't yours?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Zing.
The Lep
06/02/2011, 9:15 PM
Of course. Do you often post opinions that aren't yours?
A lot on here do :)
plankton
07/02/2011, 11:47 AM
a club with a non existant fanbase can't be expected to survive too long
Red Army
07/02/2011, 12:01 PM
So when can I have my jelly and icecream?
Eminence Grise
07/02/2011, 12:35 PM
So when can I have my jelly and icecream?
"We stopped off for icecream."
"When the **** did we get icecream?"
bluemovie
07/02/2011, 3:05 PM
To make a political analogy. The PD's collapsed, Fianna Fáil is collapsing. We can all stand at the sideline, point and laugh at Fianna Fáil's slow but inevitable demise, we can sit back and watch Fine gael and/or Labour get into power and we can watch the same thing happen again and again (ie watch and laugh at football clubs collapsing all around you) and the country (ie the LOI) falls to its knee's.
Or we can work together and try and pressure for reform, for change and make sure that none of the corruption happens again.
Maybe not the best idea to compare yourselves to Fianna Fail if you're looking for empathy.
sparky12345678
07/02/2011, 4:56 PM
Are you for fecking real?
If Fingla fail, it won't be because a few fans of other people want them to.
agreed. but if the LOI collapses because of the collapse of every other clubs (or at least a majority of clubs) then who is at fault? The system? the FAI?
Its not about oh lets all be one big happy LOI family.
Instead of wanting clubs to collapse why dont we work harder at getting a proper working league. Instead of complaining from the sidelines about the proplems in the league structure etc why dont we do something about it.
How can clubs hope to build a history, to foster rivalries when clubs are collapsing all around....
If bohs were to go, who would shams have to hate (and create a great match atmosphere)? If drogheda goes thered be no louth derby. If galway goes thered be no strong galway team. Cork and Derry collapsed and they have an amazing fan base (and history).
Are we saying that all these clubs collapsing should be dealt with indivdually and that there is no inherent problem within the league?
I'm not getting into a blow hard argument with you about the other ridiculous points you make. Suffice to say, you're wrong about pretty much everythign you've said.
Well maybe im being a bit idealistic and naive and rhetorical.
But i just dont see the logic in hoping that yet another club collapses as if that is somehow a good thing for the league as a whole.
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