Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[Spudulika]

Nesta, I agree with you, and I see, and agree, with Guinney's points, though barely concealed (unconcealed) delight in seeing another club go to the wall - possibly - simply reminds me of going down to play the Tones and the guy I was marking asking me if I'd support Drogheda when Dundalk go under. The day any of us bask in another clubs demise leaves us a day closer to the demise of our own.

[Nesta99]

Ok, most fans will not bask in the demise of anothers club, see the Drogheda thread as an example. Even Bohs and Shams fans while sniping at eachother endlessly need eachother. Fingal on the other hand were and will be seen by many as symbolic of the plight this entire country finds itself in. Eelmonster put it quite eloquently above. I was in the Lilywhite lounge basking in the glory of denying Shels the league title against all odds, and then being flattened by the announcement that our entire squad were being released - my point being that we have all suffered such despair in the past. But such occurences will continue as long even one club is happy for one or two trophys and then bankrptcy, well at least Mons would win the league as last man standing....

[Spudulika]

Ok, most fans will not bask in the demise of anothers club, see the Drogheda thread as an example. Even Bohs and Shams fans while sniping at eachother endlessly need eachother. Fingal on the other hand were and will be seen by many as symbolic of the plight this entire country finds itself in. Eelmonster put it quite eloquently above. I was in the Lilywhite lounge basking in the glory of denying Shels the league title against all odds, and then being flattened by the announcement that our entire squad were being released - my point being that we have all suffered such despair in the past. But such occurences will continue as long even one club is happy for one or two trophys and then bankrptcy, well at least Mons would win the league as last man standing....

:-) You know, you're talking lots and lots of sense. I'm a lifelong Lilywhites fan, I only stopped getting season tickets in 2001 when I saw that the co-op was simply a local bunfight. Though I never wanted to see Drogheda go bang and would always cheer them on against other opposition. But there is something very nasty in Irish football, which I just can't fathom, which surfaces when a club has a problem. We'll always have our 2nd clubs, and they're usually ones who will be least threatening - not just using Mons as an example, I'd always seen it with Drogs.

[sparky12345678]

And I hate comments like this - suggesting that the problems Fingal have encountered are somehow endemic to the league and not the fault of the club's set-up. We should do something about it? No, this particular problem is Fingal's and Fingal's alone, and no other club should do things differently purely because of your over-reliance on one individual.

The club folding is obviously SFFC problem but the fact that this year there are more than 4 clubs in the same boat as us. That every year we have 2 or 3 clubs struggling with one or 2 inevitalby falling by the wayside does show that there is something else going wrong rather than just each clubs individual failings.

[noddy102]

i hope the cheats of both fingal and bohs are kicked straight out of the league!! bring honest clubs like monaghan and waterford up. sick of clubs cheating ie paying for players they cant afford and then getting away with it. dont see how anyone can argue with my view

[The Lep]

Cheats? give it a rest.
I can argue with your view all day :)

[Spudulika]

i hope the cheats of both fingal and bohs are kicked straight out of the league!! bring honest clubs like monaghan and waterford up. sick of clubs cheating ie paying for players they cant afford and then getting away with it. dont see how anyone can argue with my view

Noddy, Big Ears is calling you, time to go back to bed :-)

[Hibs4Ever]

Cheats? give it a rest.
I can argue with your view all day :)


Are you's not signing players you can't afford?

[Ezeikial]

Are you's not signing players you can't afford?

and creating wage inflation for everyone else by throwing round big offers like snuff at a wake?

[noddy102]

yes cheating.. what do you call it? sick of clubs paying players money they can not afford.. you do not start signing players on a budget that is not 100% certain. ie bohs hoping to get through a round in champs lge ie fingal assuming they would get sponsorship/money from whatever source. You f******* wait till its 100% certain, sponsorship contract signed or whatever before you go messing with players careers!!!

bye bye fingal i say, and bohs!!

[Charlie Darwin]

Mick Wallace of Wexford Youths is on Vincent Browne now. He's running as an independent in the county. I'm hearing that he put more than €5m of his own money into the team and local soccer facilities - puts Gannon's contribution into context if true.

[BonnieShels]

It does. And the thing is if mick was to fold tomorrow.Youths would still exist.

[Charlie Darwin]

So all his loans are non-refundable too? He's an interesting character, if a bit loopy.

[bullit]

So all his loans are non-refundable too? He's an interesting character, if a bit loopy.
He would be well at home on this forum so..........????

[Spudulika]

yes cheating.. what do you call it? sick of clubs paying players money they can not afford.. you do not start signing players on a budget that is not 100% certain. ie bohs hoping to get through a round in champs lge ie fingal assuming they would get sponsorship/money from whatever source. You f******* wait till its 100% certain, sponsorship contract signed or whatever before you go messing with players careers!!!

bye bye fingal i say, and bohs!!

While I think calling clubs cheats is a bit rich, I do agree with your point of having the budget in place before signing players. However....then nobody would sign anybody, because all budgets as predicated on expected income. What happens if your crowds drop to half of the previous season, or the country goes into a tailspin, or sponsors back out of contracts, or the club who owe you money for a player goes bust? Sadly nothing is 100% certain so clubs, even working off minimal budgets, can always end up in trouble. In a perfect world you'd have all your money in the bank before the season starts, though this isn't an organised league like North America.

[bullit]

While I think calling clubs cheats is a bit rich, I do agree with your point of having the budget in place before signing players. However....then nobody would sign anybody, because all budgets as predicated on expected income. What happens if your crowds drop to half of the previous season, or the country goes into a tailspin, or sponsors back out of contracts, or the club who owe you money for a player goes bust? Sadly nothing is 100% certain so clubs, even working off minimal budgets, can always end up in trouble. In a perfect world you'd have all your money in the bank before the season starts, though this isn't an organised league like North America.
As in any buisness you predict trends based on year on year and month on month results.What you are predicting is the end of the world.Spingal had a 5/10 plan, but they got to far ahead of themselves. They had no other income streams bar attendance or sponsers, while others have several income streams that they tend to use trieing to build a club.(youth dev. centres and such) instead of gambling high stakes for a quick return that will eventualy kill a club.
Them people that gamble a clubs future away should be put up againd a wall and pied and im sure you would agree with that kind of retribution.

[The Lep]

Are you's not signing players you can't afford?

Are you asking if we are not signing players we cant afford ? then ye, were not :)

[The Lep]

and creating wage inflation for everyone else by throwing round big offers like snuff at a wake?

Prove it, you dont know what is being offered. Waterford was offering more to our players than what we was hence why the lads went to them. Dundalk are paying Byrne and Quiqley peanuts are they?

[The Lep]

yes cheating.. what do you call it? sick of clubs paying players money they can not afford.. you do not start signing players on a budget that is not 100% certain. ie bohs hoping to get through a round in champs lge ie fingal assuming they would get sponsorship/money from whatever source. You f******* wait till its 100% certain, sponsorship contract signed or whatever before you go messing with players careers!!!

bye bye fingal i say, and bohs!!



Its not cheating Noddy, and dont go, you are great fun :)

[drummerboy]

I’m not from Wexford, but I certainly hope the people of Wexford have the courage to elect Mick Wallace. If the Dail was populated with people like him, this would be a great country to live in.

[Hibs4Ever]

Are you asking if we are not signing players we cant afford ? then ye, were not :)


So all the players you've signed are being paid in full and on time then?

[Spudulika]

As in any buisness you predict trends based on year on year and month on month results.What you are predicting is the end of the world.Spingal had a 5/10 plan, but they got to far ahead of themselves. They had no other income streams bar attendance or sponsers, while others have several income streams that they tend to use trieing to build a club.(youth dev. centres and such) instead of gambling high stakes for a quick return that will eventualy kill a club.
Them people that gamble a clubs future away should be put up againd a wall and pied and im sure you would agree with that kind of retribution.

Not quite, because it all depends on the point of view of the piethrower. No club in Ireland have income streams that are guaranteed (even Shamrock Rovers), no club anywhere for that matter as anything can happen. Besides all of that, I have yet to see a club which would turn away a major investor who can "deliver". A club I worked with have just been the subject of one of the most horrendous 3 card tricks, which the "fans" en masse accepted, because the main person in question was going to "deliver". I can't call them stupid, naive, or even pathetic, as everyone wants their club to succeed and especially if they're not at the top. I wonder is it worth the FAI rigidly enforcing wage structures and forcing clubs to go part-time? I know someone will inevitably find a loophole, or players will get cash on the side, but if we adopt a solid North American model without the normal gombeenism of Irish life it may work.

[oriel]

So after the usual days of bickering, does anyone actually know what the implications of the non paying of wages will have on 1/ Fingal's 2011 season
2/ Current players, notably those recently joined, Bolger a prime example
Also
3/ Can the FAI realistically not nominate them to play in Europe and
4/ Is the current situation likely to be resolved soon, or is it really the start of the end ?

Finally spudulika, I sometimes get confused with some of your posts, are you a previous Dundalk fan who has now taken to supporting another/other clubs ?

[BonnieShels]

The FAI will of course respond in a through and professional manner seeking to uphold the spirit of licencing...
Or they will do what the FAI normally do and...

http://www.jul1.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/fudge.jpg

[Nesta99]

@ spudulika Budget for a worse case scenario and work from there.....

[The Lep]

So all the players you've signed are being paid in full and on time then?

Who are ALL these players we have signed?

[Hibs4Ever]

Who are ALL these players we have signed?


Answer my question and quit avoiding!! The players you have signed/are on your books, (and new commercial manager) can you afford to pay them in full and on time? It's a simple "yes" or "no"

[Longfordian]

They've paid their players as of this morning according to extratime.ie.

[Nesta99]

What? Mr Gannon dipping into his secret stash then

[BonnieShels]

Or Mr Delaney?

[total hoofball]

Or Mr Delaney?

Well it is the usual routine now when a club can't pay its players!

Yeah, the FAI advanced Fingal prize money yesterday, that will tick them over for 3 or 4 weeks until Buckley pulls the magic beans of filling a 500k+ budget deficit out of thin air.

[Buile Shuibhne]

They've paid their players as of this morning according to extratime.ie.


The Daily Mail says: "the club yesterday received prize money of around €45,000 from the FAI due for last season."


Have all clubs received their prizemoney for last season, this week, too?

[BonnieShels]

Surely this Is yet another smokescreen.
If Fingal were due this prize money then surely that was factored into their budget.
If it wasn't factored into their income why not?
If they didn't know they were getting it why not?
Why has it taken 2 clubs to nearly hit the wall before the FAI would forward their money?

It's scandalous.

[iceman]

Sounds like an "advance payment" from the FAI on the strenght of their European money which will be due in July.
FAI have been doing this for years, highly unethical , but surprise , surprise , they get away with it.

[BonnieShels]

Is it the 2010-11 money or 2011-12 money that they are due in July?

[Longfordian]

I'm sure it is factored into their budget and just means they'll have to try and fill that hole with some other funding when the time comes. I can't see how anything could go wrong.

[Jofspring]

Regardless I don't think €45,000 is going to make much difference at this stage.

[BonnieShels]

Depressingly they're limping along.

[iceman]

Is it the 2010-11 money or 2011-12 money that they are due in July?
UEFA calculate and pay out the prize money when the competition is over in the summer , so we are talking about the 2011-2011 money here.

[Charlie Darwin]

So are Fingal the new Model Club now? I'm having trouble keeping up.

[BonnieShels]

So, they would have budgeted for it. So what does that say then... the club's a shambles.
Wrap it up.

[SkStu]

@ spudulika Budget for a worse case scenario and work from there.....

i used to think that would be the best approach too Nesta but i think it is more realistic and potentially more rewarding to budget for middle of the road performance. If you have Europe, budget for one round. Anything else the team achieves is a bonus and possible "profit" (not sure if thats the correct term). If you budget for worst case scenario then you will likely achieve it.

By the way, despite The Lep's numerous digs at me and Bohs, i wish SFFC the best in all this and hope that you pull through. As a fan of a LOI club, i am - by extension - a fan of the league and the last thing that the league needs is a club going under. Despite peoples opinions of SFFC and whether they should be in existence, the fact is that they are a club in the Premier division that represented the League with pride in Europe and we shouldnt be wishing any demise upon them. Just my opinion.

[Charlie Darwin]

The "worst case scenario" for a LOI club could be anything. You'd have to budget for sponsors pulling out, crowds halving and the stadium falling down. Actually, that's not even the worst case scenario - that's fairly normal.

[BohsFans]

UEFA calculate and pay out the prize money when the competition is over in the summer


November actually I think.



so we are talking about the 2011-2011 money here.


How do you know?

[Ezeikial]

European money relating to last July should have been paid to the four relevant clubs by now. The prize money for league placings for last season is normally paid in the close season. I suspect that if the FAI gave Sporting Fingal any cash it is simply what they are due (overdue?). SF have obviously already budgeted for this and while it may resolve the temporary cash flow issue for now, the fundamental issue is hardly resolved.

[legendz]

I hope reports are true that Fingal's future is safe. I believe the club has been found for the right reasons for the long-term development of the game in Fingal.

The league needs new clubs, maybe not so many in the Dublin area, and for new clubs to succeed.

[BonnieShels]

What reports? There's been no further news other than this intervention from the FAI. They are still on the verge. Thankfully.

[Ezeikial]

and creating wage inflation for everyone else by throwing round big offers like snuff at a wake?


Prove it, you dont know what is being offered. Waterford was offering more to our players than what we was hence why the lads went to them. Dundalk are paying Byrne and Quiqley peanuts are they?

I realise that you are possibly unaware of the extent of the offers that Buckley has made over the last 3 months.

Your attempt at a jibe in relation to what Byrne and Quigley are being paid by Dundalk is hilarious and ironic, especially as at least one of them had a "concrete" offer from SF. What do you think was the effect of that?

[The Lep]

Answer my question and quit avoiding!! The players you have signed/are on your books, (and new commercial manager) can you afford to pay them in full and on time? It's a simple "yes" or "no"

Yes. ;)

[The Lep]

i used to think that would be the best approach too Nesta but i think it is more realistic and potentially more rewarding to budget for middle of the road performance. If you have Europe, budget for one round. Anything else the team achieves is a bonus and possible "profit" (not sure if thats the correct term). If you budget for worst case scenario then you will likely achieve it.

By the way, despite The Lep's numerous digs at me and Bohs, i wish SFFC the best in all this and hope that you pull through. As a fan of a LOI club, i am - by extension - a fan of the league and the last thing that the league needs is a club going under. Despite peoples opinions of SFFC and whether they should be in existence, the fact is that they are a club in the Premier division that represented the League with pride in Europe and we shouldnt be wishing any demise upon them. Just my opinion.

What are you on about now? what digs at you and Bohs? paranoid much ?