Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[pineapple stu]

Thats usually the case but Fingal have only spent money they have up to now.
Drogheda were only spending money their directors had. Fingal are only spending money Gerry Gannon has. Same difference.

[RoversHead]

Waterford are hardly packing them in now either are they. If attendances where a measure of survival, every club in the league would be in trouble.In fairness to Waterford they cut their wage bill accordingly and promotion this year will kick them on.

[marinobohs]

Twice ;)

........ and counting :cool:

[Rasputin]

nope my moneys on GUFC followed by Sligo ,Bohs and then spingal in that order.
You do realise we ended last season with a 6 figure profit?

[marinobohs]

QUOTE=Rasputin;1334741]You do realise we ended last season with a 6 figure profit?[/QUOTE]

Never mind the facts, if shams say it will be so, it will be so...........:cool:

[CarrickFan]

All clubs should get free stadiums from their local Co Councils and then all will be grand.

[The Lep]

Drogheda were only spending money their directors had. Fingal are only spending money Gerry Gannon has. Same difference.

It doesnt matter who the money belongs to in the beginning, the point is that when its given to us its our money to spend.

[The Lep]

All clubs should get free stadiums from their local Co Councils and then all will be grand.

That wouldnt have helped in a lot of cases.

[Celdrog]

It doesnt matter who the money belongs to in the beginning, the point is that when its given to us its our money to spend.The point is, what happens when Gannon stops giving you the money. Your attendances and sponsorship won't support a premier league club, maybe not even a first division club.

[madblaa]

Waterford are hardly packing them in now either are they. If attendances where a measure of survival, every club in the league would be in trouble.My point is, Fingal won the FAI cup and also got promoted last year, and still are struggling to get any interest going, Blues are pretty bad when it comes to attendances, I'll admit, but at least when we're winning, we draw a crowd. We had at least a thousand at the opening game, about 200 travelled to Cork last Friday and we should have close to a thousand on Friday.

Fact is, there are too many Dublin clubs as it is, even though the caption area population there is massive, they have failed to get people interested and the money simply isn't coming in, this will only have one outcome within 3 years unless something is done.

[marinobohs]

The point is, what happens when Gannon stops giving you the money. Your attendances and sponsorship won't support a premier league club, maybe not even a first division club.

I would presume/hope that SF are looking at that possibility ? I know some/many clubs record does not inspire confidence but would not take it for granted that SF only hope is "close your eyes and hope" :rolleyes: especially as Gannon's current difficulties are well flagged.
it is fairly obvious that the initial start up costs are the worst, is it not possible the club have a continguency plan for the future ?

[Lamper.sffc]

I would presume/hope that SF are looking at that possibility ? I know some/many clubs record does not inspire confidence but would not take it for granted that SF only hope is "close your eyes and hope" :rolleyes: especially as Gannon's current difficulties are well flagged.
it is fairly obvious that the initial start up costs are the worst, is it not possible the club have a continguency plan for the future ?

I hope you are right. I doubt, but of course can never be certain, that the club do not have a plan in place should Gannon lose interest. As iv always said from the beginning, time will tell whether we do alright or not. We have actually lasted longer than a lot of others in here thought. While everybody else has been predicting doom and gloom for our club since the beginning, a hell of alot has actually happened to other clubs while we have been fine (so far) So, as people keep saying, that our way has proven to be the wrong way in the past, which I totally understand them saying. It really hasnt worked anyway for most of the clubs recently now has it. I personally will be crossing my fingers hoping all clubs can come this recession and a stonger, better league will come from it.

[The Lep]

The point is, what happens when Gannon stops giving you the money. Your attendances and sponsorship won't support a premier league club, maybe not even a first division club.

We can only worry about that when the time comes and as i said earlier it could be a case of us going part time and as a result getting relegated to the first. There isnt many clubs out there who's attendances and sponsorship cover all their expenses as we have seen before. At the moment we are still alive and i cant see much point in trying to put the nail in the Sporting coffin just yet just because we made a loss last year.

[The Observer]

I personally will be crossing my fingers hoping all clubs can come this recession and a stonger, better league will come from it.

To be fair the recession is an easy excuse for clubs in financial difficulty, the reality is that the vast majority took the high risk strategy of gambling on future earnings based on varying degrees of success, you could argue somewhat that the recession possibly affected bohs, as had the property sector not crashed so badly they would have no doubt been able to sell Dalymount for a substantial profit from which they could both clear their debts & acquire a new home of their own, but Shels, Cork, Derry & Drogheda on the other hand spent vast sums of money in the hope of recouping their outlay through prize money & european success, the recession had little to do with their 'all in' strategy IMO.

[marinobohs]

To be fair the recession is an easy excuse for clubs in financial difficulty, the reality is that the vast majority took the high risk strategy of gambling on future earnings based on varying degrees of success, you could argue somewhat that the recession possibly affected bohs, as had the property sector not crashed so badly they would have no doubt been able to sell Dalymount for a substantial profit from which they could both clear their debts & acquire a new home of their own, but Shels, Cork, Derry & Drogheda on the other hand spent vast sums of money in the hope of recouping their outlay through prize money & european success, the recession had little to do with their 'all in' strategy IMO.

Unfortunately the League has always had a turnover of clubs - add Shams, pats and Bohs (especially in the 1980s) to list of clubs in previous difficulties and Dublin city, Drumcondra and 101 cork teams. Smart business and LOI football just dont seem to be compatible. Would be nice (if unlikely) if we had no new names to add to the list for a while.

[The Lep]

My point is, Fingal won the FAI cup and also got promoted last year, and still are struggling to get any interest going, Blues are pretty bad when it comes to attendances, I'll admit, but at least when we're winning, we draw a crowd. We had at least a thousand at the opening game, about 200 travelled to Cork last Friday and we should have close to a thousand on Friday.

Fact is, there are too many Dublin clubs as it is, even though the caption area population there is massive, they have failed to get people interested and the money simply isn't coming in, this will only have one outcome within 3 years unless something is done.

Why didnt you post that first instead of posting an incorrect post that we have no fans. Our attendance average last year was more than Waterford's and they are a bigger county than Fingal. If Waterford are doing ok so whats stopping Fingal from doing so ? We have only had one home match of the season so far and the attendance was up and there isnt much point saying that people arnt interested just yet with just one home game gone.
We were not alone in making a loss last year so lets wait until after next year to see where we stand regarding our finance.

[The Observer]

Unfortunately the League has always had a turnover of clubs - add Shams, pats and Bohs (especially in the 1980s) to list of clubs in previous difficulties and Dublin city, Drumcondra and 101 cork teams. Smart business and LOI football just dont seem to be compatible. Would be nice (if unlikely) if we had no new names to add to the list for a while.

Thats my point though, the league has a history of clubs being run badly, to blame it on something such as the recession is a tad inaccurate IMO.

[Dalymountrower]

The bottom line is that a bunch of young people who may never have attended a League of Ireland match, are now supporting Sporting Fingal, long may it continue.
As for Gannon piling money in for reasons unknown, so what , better that it be put into Irish Football rather than be frittered away on flying a couple of harlots on a private plane to North Africa as apparently is the fashion among other "developers"

[osarusan]

As long as Fingal are not actually spending money they don't have, and as long as Gannon won't be able (or forced) to sell off assets if he goes to the wall, and as long as there is some kind of contingency plan at least being considered for coping in the event of Gannon having to pull out (or at least his money), then good luck to Fingal.
It's good that there are some new fans attending LOI games. Do I give a f**k that they're another club from Dublin? No I don't.

But we don't need another implosion of a LOI club. I hope there is enough common sense to realise the possibility of that at any club, and to put measures in place.

[GalwayRed]

Why didnt you post that first instead of posting an incorrect post that we have no fans. Our attendance average last year was more than Waterford's and they are a bigger county than Fingal. If Waterford are doing ok so whats stopping Fingal from doing so ? We have only had one home match of the season so far and the attendance was up and there isnt much point saying that people arnt interested just yet with just one home game gone.
We were not alone in making a loss last year so lets wait until after next year to see where we stand regarding our finance.
Im sorry but Fingal is NOT a county. Thats all I have to say on the matter.:)

[Schumi]

Waterford are hardly packing them in now either are they. If attendances where a measure of survival, every club in the league would be in trouble.

Waterford aren't spending a million a year though.

[Lamper.sffc]

Waterford aren't spending a million a year though.

Because waterford dont have it, we do and when we dont have it, Id assume we wont spend it.

[Lamper.sffc]

Thats my point though, the league has a history of clubs being run badly, to blame it on something such as the recession is a tad inaccurate IMO.

To blame it on something other than the recession is also a tad inacurate as well

I didnt mean for it to come across as it was just the recession. Of course its badly run clubs plus the recession. The two hitting at the same time is what the real problem is. Sponsorship will be down, crowds down. Maybe the price of tickets down and other such things. These have all hindered clubs in the last year or two plus the bad running of clubs. The point I was trying to make is that after all this crap is finished with, that I hope clubs and the league will come out of it the stonger.

[The Lep]

Im sorry but Fingal is NOT a county. Thats all I have to say on the matter.:)

Yes it is and it was a county before the city of Dublin reached into it.

[Réiteoir]

Maybe you could point it out to me on this map then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ireland_trad_counties_named.svg

Fingal is nothing more than an Administrative Division of Dublin - not even anywhere near a bona-fide County

[The Lep]

Im not gonna get into an argument of whether Fingal is a county or not. I live in County Fingal thats all that matters. If you dont think its a county then so be it.

[micls]

Im not gonna get into an argument of whether Fingal is a county or not. I live in County Fingal thats all that matters. If you dont think its a county then so be it.

Em...whether something is a county or not isn't an opinion.

There are 32 counties in Ireland. Fingal isn't one of them, at the moment. What anyone 'thinks' is irrelevant.

[higgins]

Are the full accounts available to view anywhere?
What other income did they have outside of Gannon?

With such a massive amount of money coming as a 'donation' how are they working the 65% rule?

Also unless the FAI have closed a few loopholes then we're about to see Arkaga Part II ??
Soon as our NAMA friend has his accounts frozen and Sporting Fingal are not close to a Transfer Window then it goes belly up!! As was also said even if they do slash the playing budget by that 750K!! (over 15K per week ) they won't be able to trade with the small fanbase they have and still avoid the 65% limit. If they do manage it then it's short term and they will be hammered week to week.

[micls]

With such a massive amount of money coming as a 'donation' how are they working the 65% rule?
Non-repayable donations are allowed to be included in the 65% rule. Director's loans aren't.

[total hoofball]

As iv always said from the beginning, time will tell whether we do alright or not. We have actually lasted longer than a lot of others in here thought. While everybody else has been predicting doom and gloom for our club since the beginning, a hell of alot has actually happened to other clubs while we have been fine (so far)

Lets get things straight. Sporting Fingal can only survive on Gannon's 'investment', 780k is too large of a figure for a club to bridge with no ground, no assets, no history and a small youthful fanbase in its infancy. Gerry Gannon is bust, broke, cream crackered. If Anglo Irish Bank were let sink as they should have been in September 2008 and Fianna Fáil never created the criminal NAMA scam, Gannon would be have been gone 12 months ago and Sporting Fingal would have sunk with him. We are watching a doomed club been given a stay of execution due to political/property developer ******ology. Cork, Derry, Kildare did not have this unique luxury that Sporting Fingal have. As the accounts show Sporting Fingal are wildly unsustainable, totally dependent on Gannon's invisible money and are effectively the LOI version of Anglo Irish Bank, a zombie football club who are doomed because the fundamentals of what is needed to be a sustainble LOI entity are entirely non-existant and are living on borrowed time (and money).

[total hoofball]

We were not alone in making a loss last year so lets wait until after next year to see where we stand regarding our finance.

What other club came close to making a ~780k operating loss last season?

I don't think even Bohs would have lost that amount!

[The Lep]

It wasnt

[total hoofball]

What other income did they have outside of Gannon?


From what I remember when the club was initially formed, main sponsors Keelings were pumping in 250k per season. I heard, can't say for certain though, that this figure was reduced due to the economic downturn affecting Keelings

[total hoofball]

It wasnt

It wasn't what?

[The Lep]

From what I remember when the club was initially formed, main sponsors Keelings were pumping in 250k per season. I heard, can't say for certain though, that this figure was reduced due to the economic downturn affecting Keelings

Their sponsorship has been very fruitful so far.

[Dalymountrower]

Im not gonna get into an argument of whether Fingal is a county or not. I live in County Fingal thats all that matters. If you dont think its a county then so be it.
By that logic,pople from Nenagh live in County North Tipperary

[Lamper.sffc]

I hope you are right. I doubt, but of course can never be certain, that the club do not have a plan in place should Gannon lose interest. As iv always said from the beginning, time will tell whether we do alright or not. We have actually lasted longer than a lot of others in here thought. While everybody else has been predicting doom and gloom for our club since the beginning, a hell of alot has actually happened to other clubs while we have been fine (so far)


I hope you are right. I doubt, but of course can never be certain, that the club do not have a plan in place should Gannon lose interest. As iv always said from the beginning, time will tell whether we do alright or not. We have actually lasted longer than a lot of others in here thought. While everybody else has been predicting doom and gloom for our club since the beginning, a hell of alot has actually happened to other clubs while we have been fine (so far) So, as people keep saying, that our way has proven to be the wrong way in the past, which I totally understand them saying. It really hasnt worked anyway for most of the clubs recently now has it. I personally will be crossing my fingers hoping all clubs can come through this recession, and a stonger, better league will come from it.


Lets get things straight. Sporting Fingal can only survive on Gannon's 'investment', 780k is too large of a figure for a club to bridge with no ground, no assets, no history and a small youthful fanbase in its infancy. Gerry Gannon is bust, broke, cream crackered. If Anglo Irish Bank were let sink as they should have been in September 2008 and Fianna Fáil never created the criminal NAMA scam, Gannon would be have been gone 12 months ago and Sporting Fingal would have sunk with him. We are watching a doomed club been given a stay of execution due to political/property developer ******ology. Cork, Derry, Kildare did not have this unique luxury that Sporting Fingal have. As the accounts show Sporting Fingal are wildly unsustainable, totally dependent on Gannon's invisible money and are effectively the LOI version of Anglo Irish Bank, a zombie football club who are doomed because the fundamentals of what is needed to be a sustainble LOI entity are entirely non-existant and are living on borrowed time (and money).

Mate dont quote me on the bit that makes your argument more valid. Quote everything i said. Iv never said it will definately work for us Im simply saying im willing to wait and see. Your over the top rant at me is pointless because im not saying what will happen at fingal will work, im just stating that what is happening at most clubs hasnt been working either and people should focus on their own clubs and stop trying to look for the problems with others. Take a chill pill my friend. We are not totally disagreeing.

[The Lep]

Lets get things straight. Sporting Fingal can only survive on Gannon's 'investment', 780k is too large of a figure for a club to bridge with no ground, no assets, no history and a small youthful fanbase in its infancy. Gerry Gannon is bust, broke, cream crackered. If Anglo Irish Bank were let sink as they should have been in September 2008 and Fianna Fáil never created the criminal NAMA scam, Gannon would be have been gone 12 months ago and Sporting Fingal would have sunk with him. We are watching a doomed club been given a stay of execution due to political/property developer ******ology. Cork, Derry, Kildare did not have this unique luxury that Sporting Fingal have. As the accounts show Sporting Fingal are wildly unsustainable, totally dependent on Gannon's invisible money and are effectively the LOI version of Anglo Irish Bank, a zombie football club who are doomed because the fundamentals of what is needed to be a sustainble LOI entity are entirely non-existant and are living on borrowed time (and money).

And your point is?

[CSFShels]

And your point is?
Em its clearly articulated in his first sentence.

[The Lep]

Its not 100% accurate now is it.

[CSFShels]

No but not far off it either.

[The Lep]

Far enough. Lets take one season at a time shall we , no point going on ifs and maybes . Much to the dislike of some,Sporting Fingal will see out the season and im confident they will start next years season in the division they qualified for on the pitch at the end of this season. Just because you want us gone it doesnt meant it will happen anytime soon so lets just enjoy this season shall we .

[dublinred]

1247 at morton on Friday probably max 2-300 rovers fans so Fingal have accumulated 1000 home fans in the space of a few seasons .As a resident of the area I still think its stupid moving to lusk instead of swords but I understand the council are buying part of one of your sponsers landbanks ,so probably makes sense from ongoing funding perspective to keep the sponsors sweet.

[drummerboy]

1247 at morton on Friday probably max 2-300 rovers fans so Fingal have accumulated 1000 home fans in the space of a few seasons .As a resident of the area I still think its stupid moving to lusk instead of swords but I understand the council are buying part of one of your sponsers landbanks ,so probably makes sense from ongoing funding perspective to keep the sponsors sweet.

A friendly dig out. They seem to have a very cosy little relationship.

[srfc1928]

The Sporting Fingal / Gerry Gannon relationship was featured on Business Matters this week (TV3)
They questioned whether Gannon could continue to fund Fingal as he is one of the first to be placed in NAMA.

[GUFCghost]

if they are getting crowds of 1000 and they don't deserve to be in the league,then Galway don't too.

[passerrby]

if they are getting crowds of 1000 and they don't deserve to be in the league,then Galway don't too.

if you win promotion and comply with licence requirements you deserve to be there and no club is in any position to say otherwise

[BonnieShels]

Yes it is and it was a county before the city of Dublin reached into it.

Fingal is an administrative county. That's all it is.
I know that counties by their very nature are administrative area but thanks to the GAA (Fingal play as a 'county' in the National Hurling League but that's more to do with the proliferation of hurlers and is part of the greater super Dublin hurling plan to have another panel to take from), counties in Ireland have taken on a serious significance culturally. I work for Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council and I can tell you as a matter of fact that it is not a county in the 'Irish' sense of the word.
Fair dues to someone who has an afffinity to Fingal and not to Dublin, although I find it odd!
The North bank of the Liffey in Lucan is in Fingal and the southside of the village is in South Dublin County and I don't think you could say that they have regional rivalry!

I think it's a difficult for a lot of people on this site and in the wider LOI community in general to look at Fingal and want to them to succeed considering their provenance and their connection to a developer and a wildly dodgy council. I would count me among their number. Being a Shels fan doesn't help either! Fingal fans need to stop acting hard-done-by and having a Millwall attitude and need to start winning the wider community over.

[The Lep]

By no means do i feel hard done by :) I didnt expect any diffrent response from a shells fan to be honest. Where are you going with this millwall attitude ?
I think its sad that SOME so called fans of our league would love to see another league club fold and not succeed. The truth is and what is important Sporting Fingal are here and will be here for another while yet . What division we will be in will be decided on the pitch and if we are full or part time and no amout of begrudgery or wishful thinking by those who wish to see us out of the league will change that.
Its only the start of the season lads so lets enjoy it ye. There have been some legit points made on here and i agree with some and im sure that most Fingal fans arent naive to think that our financial status will remain the same for a number of years so like i said earlier we can only deal with whats on the table at the moment and im going to enjoy this season and no amout of negative postings from those who want to see Fingal fold will change that.

[pineapple stu]

The Sporting Fingal / Gerry Gannon relationship was featured on Business Matters this week (TV3)
They questioned whether Gannon could continue to fund Fingal as he is one of the first to be placed in NAMA.
Did they come to any sort of conclusion?

(Though I don't expect much from any TV3 show)