Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[redobit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_FAI_Cup_Final

A distant memory at this stage.

So you think winning the FAI Cup propels you to big club status?

[BonnieShels]

Sure Drogheda managed to win a league and came within a whisker of beating Dynamo Kyiv and I still wouldn't next to consider them a big club. Fingal don't come close.

[marinobohs]

nobody I dont think takes any pleasure in seeing a club fold, I think the point most posters are making is this situation was fortold on day one as an accident waiting to happen. and now that its come to pass it gives the naysayers in the media another chance to rip the crap out of our league

... never did understand the depth of anti Fingal feeling on here and still not convinced. Is it

(a) because they forced up playing wages ? biggest wage bill I am aware of was St Pats in Johnny Mac's last season, never caused a comment on foot.ie so it aint a wages inflation issue

(b) Most/all money from one source and that a dreaded developer. Again same could (but never is) be said about St Pats so cant be the reason

(c) Low crowds. Really ? UCD and Mons posters criticising crowds ?

(d) Spending money they dont have. Never seen any evidence this is the case. Would expect new club to need to run a manageable loss in the hope of recouping it when they become established. No doubt will now have to radically reduce expenditure but it can be done (St Pats proved it) so why cant Sporting Fingal ?

(e) No club history. Ah, thats why Shels and Bohs (two oldest clubs in LOI) have been so immune from stick on this forum :eek:.

(f) new club that had the audacity to be successfull so early in its life ? Always amazed me how the same fans that bleat on about lack of investment in LOI moan about Fingal attracting, well, investment. St Pats near 3 million wage bill OK but Fingals wage bill not ? Perhaps because St pats won nothing that season ?

As for the "bad publicity for the for the LOI" nonsence, What bad publicity have they generated ?

[de bowez]

g) There's too many clubs in Dublin with too little investment as it is, all ego stuff from Seery and now Fingal, would have been much better to do a deal with Shels and move them out to Fingal or something like that.

[marinobohs]

g) There's too many clubs in Dublin with too little investment as it is, all ego stuff from Seery and now Fingal, would have been much better to do a deal with Shels and move them out to Fingal or something like that.

Why Shels ? or indeed any existng club ? If there are too many clubs then some will cease to operate (as with Dublin City). If I were investing in a LOI club I would probobly opt for a new "green field site" scenario rather than take on the baggage (financial) assosiated with many of the current crop of clubs. Would the LOI be better if a certain developer kept his money in his pocket rather than give it to SF ? Because there is no basis (that I am aware of) to believe he would have given it to any other club. Fingal Co Council participation in the project is similar, if not SF were they likely to assist Shels/Bohs ? Doubt it.

Sporting Fingal set up the same as any LOI club. Did shams have a history before 1949 ? UCD before the 1970's etc ? Every club has to be given the chance to build an identity. Incidentally, there are not that many teams close to Santry Stadium certainly not that SF are "pulling" fans away from, I would guess the least of Shels or Bohs problems is SF luring away their support.

[Dodge]

Sporting Fingal set up the same as any LOI club. Did shams have a history before 1949 ? UCD before the 1970's etc ?

YOu mean the Shams that are league members since all but the first year and formed in 1899/1901 (depending on who you listen to) or the UCD club side thats about the same age?

[total hoofball]

... never did understand the depth of anti Fingal feeling on here and still not convinced. Is it

(b) Most/all money from one source and that a dreaded developer. Again same could (but never is) be said about St Pats so cant be the reason

St. Patrick's Athletic aren't owned or were formed by a County Council.

Kelleher spent silly money out of his own accord which had no effects on the integrity of local public administration. His business empire gained nothing from Pats and the public lost nothing from Pats.

Fingal County Council approached Gannon to fund Sporting Fingal.
Gannon's business empire is entirely dependent on planning permission from the same County Council, Gannon saying no Sporting Fingal would be biting the hand that feeds you.
Gannon's only previous involvement in football was with Malahide United, conveniently that involvment resulted in a major development.
The day before Gannon's loans are taken over by NAMA/the taxpayer, Fingal County Council amazingly provide Gannnon with planning permission for a massive development in an area already blighted by Ghost Estates thus adding value to Gannon's land banks.

Let's cut the to the chase, Gannon and Fingal County Council have a completely inappropriate relationship that has left behind a legacy of disasterous planning upon the Fingal area. It is exactly this type of crony relationship involving public administration and businessman that has bankrupted this country into the hands of the IMF and devastated people's lives. In reality Gannon hasn't lost a cent on Sporting Fingal but the extension of Gannon's cosy relationship with the council and the awarding of further unnecessary PP will cost the residents of Fingal.

Oh I hear you say 'what has this got to do with football?' Everything. No county council or public body should ever be running a football club for the conflict of interest as outlined above. Sporting Fingal are receiving money they would not ever receive if they were a regular newly formed football club, this is putting all other clubs at a financial disadvantage and is not providing a level playing field. I can guarantee you Sporting Fingal aren't going to have much bother finding a replacement 'investor' for Gannon.

Just on some of your other points


(c) Low crowds. Really ? UCD and Mons posters criticising crowds ?When Sporting Fingal was set up Fingal CoCo were saying that the main reason for forming the club was due to a high demand for LOI football in the area which has instantly proven to be codswallop. Nobody expects new clubs to instantly pick up large crowds but when an new entity comes in splashing the cash trying to buy trophies and trips to Europe while making wild claims that there is such a large demand for their formation is perfectly understandable for LOI fans to be asking what is the f-ing point.


(d) Spending money they dont have. Never seen any evidence this is the case. Would expect new club to need to run a manageable loss in the hope of recouping it when they become established. No doubt will now have to radically reduce expenditure but it can be done (St Pats proved it) so why cant Sporting Fingal ?Taking out Gannon's money they lost €825,358 in 2009. That is what is called a completely unmanagable loss for a club with a maximum few hundred fans, no ground, no external sources of income without massive subsidising. Pats have a ground, Pats have a decent fanbase (by LOI standards), Pats have external sources of income and also a decent manager who knows how to work a tight budget - that's how they could adjust.


(f) new club that had the audacity to be successfull so early in its life ? Always amazed me how the same fans that bleat on about lack of investment in LOI moan about Fingal attracting, well, investment. St Pats near 3 million wage bill OK but Fingals wage bill not ? Perhaps because St pats won nothing that season ?'Investment' is what has got the league into the mess over the past few years because investment into a LOI club is a black hole and investors always cut and run.

Investment does not equal sustainability. All I've heard and read LOI fans talk about is clubs living within their means and despite all the negatives over the past few season the league is getting closer to the point where all clubs will be living within their means after the excesses of the past decade. Fingal and Bohs are the two remaining clubs who will sooner or later have to go through their adjustment to sustainability and the sooner they get that over and done with the better it will be for the league. Sporting Fingal's investment is an investment in Gannon's quest for planning permission, an investment in players wages and an investment in Fingal County's Council desire for publicity - not a single cent of investment into Sporting Fingal is going into facilities, schoolboy clubs and football development in the region, the council fund that from their budget anyway.


As for the "bad publicity for the for the LOI" nonsence, What bad publicity have they generated ?Bad publicity for being yet another unsustainable LOI entity on the inevitable road to ruin? Was what happened with Shels, Rovers, Cork, Derry, Drogheda, Dublin City, Kildare not bad publicity?

[total hoofball]

Sporting Fingal set up the same as any LOI club.

I think most LOI clubs anyway were set up by individual/s who had a love/collective love for the game instead of being set up by a bunch bureaucrats in a plush county council office

[ndrog]

Sure Drogheda managed to win a league and came within a whisker of beating Dynamo Kyiv and I still wouldn't next to consider them a big club. Fingal don't come close.


Any loi fan who is concerned with being a so called " big club " is delusional if you ask me . There are no big clubs in Irish football and as we all know very well things change in the blink of an eye . Derry and cork where considered big clubs and look what happened to them , dundalk where one of the most successful clubs in the country and spent the best part of a decade in the first division . Irish football is a minority sport that is completely ignored for the most part , it laughable to call any loi club big tbh .

[jinxy lilywhite]

Any loi fan who is concerned with being a so called " big club " is delusional if you ask me . There are no big clubs in Irish football and as we all know very well things change in the blink of an eye . Derry and cork where considered big clubs and look what happened to them , dundalk where one of the most successful clubs in the country and spent the best part of a decade in the first division . Irish football is a minority sport that is completely ignored for the most part , it laughable to call any loi club big tbh .

i'd say you where itching to get that in. Realistically though there are only 3 big clubs in Ireland. And they are Rovers, Bohs and Dundalk. Even though LOI is a minority sport ask any man on the street they will tell you who they are. With the possible exception of Derry, the rest don't even surface. Cork have too many previous entities that my oul man still says Hibs because he couldn't be bothered with the other. The bigness of a club is built over an large space of time and takes in the highs and lows. the good press with the bad and being able to rise above and struggle for survival every year.

Back to topic. I feel for the Fingal projects demise. A few guys took a risk and unfortunately it didn't work. Hopefully they (Fingal FC) can continue on and find their proper level.
If there is one thing is the loi mantra of "I told you so". Like ffs when are we going to all stand beside one another and support each other through the good times and bad.

[SkStu]

Back to topic. I feel for the Fingal projects demise. A few guys took a risk and unfortunately it didn't work. Hopefully they (Fingal FC) can continue on and find their proper level.
If there is one thing is the loi mantra of "I told you so". Like ffs when are we going to all stand beside one another and support each other through the good times and bad.

we wont. Not for a while anyway. We're just a microcosm of the attitude of the clubs themselves who are out for themselves and themselves only.

[Poor Student]

UCD before the 1970's etc ?

UCD won the IFA intermediate cup in 1914, the FAI intermediate cup in 1945, were invited to join the original LOI and participated in the LOI senior cup in the 30's and 50's.

I don't think any UCD or Mons fans criticised Fingal's crowds. We do question how they can sustain the level of spending they've become accustomed to without a fanbase to generate revenue to replace Gannon's donations.

[ndrog]

i'd say you where itching to get that in. Realistically though there are only 3 big clubs in Ireland. And they are Rovers, Bohs and Dundalk. Even though LOI is a minority sport ask any man on the street they will tell you who they are. With the possible exception of Derry, the rest don't even surface. Cork have too many previous entities that my oul man still says Hibs because he couldn't be bothered with the other. The bigness of a club is built over an large space of time and takes in the highs and lows. the good press with the bad and being able to rise above and struggle for survival every year.

Back to topic. I feel for the Fingal projects demise. A few guys took a risk and unfortunately it didn't work. Hopefully they (Fingal FC) can continue on and find their proper level.
If there is one thing is the loi mantra of "I told you so". Like ffs when are we going to all stand beside one another and support each other through the good times and bad.

You can take it as some sort of personal dig at dfc if you like , it wasnt by the way . I was using you as an example as to how there are no big clubs in the loi imo . How do you judge who is a big club and who is not ? There are clubs who have consistently been in the top flight etc and have always been challenging for trophies but even some of these clubs get very poor crowds , St pats for example . Waterford where thought to be a big club once upon a time ! Sorry for going off topic ..

[White Horse]

I was using you as an example as to how there are no big clubs in the loi imo.

I see where you are coming from. In absolute terms there are no "big clubs". However, in the context of the LOI some clubs are "bigger" than others.

It is normal for fans to debate who those cubs are.

[passerrby]

... never did understand the depth of anti Fingal feeling on here and still not convinced. Is it

(a) because they forced up playing wages ? biggest wage bill I am aware of was St Pats in Johnny Mac's last season, never caused a comment on foot.ie so it aint a wages inflation issue

(b) Most/all money from one source and that a dreaded developer. Again same could (but never is) be said about St Pats so cant be the reason

(c) Low crowds. Really ? UCD and Mons posters criticising crowds ?

(d) Spending money they dont have. Never seen any evidence this is the case. Would expect new club to need to run a manageable loss in the hope of recouping it when they become established. No doubt will now have to radically reduce expenditure but it can be done (St Pats proved it) so why cant Sporting Fingal ?

you are p

(e) No club history. Ah, thats why Shels and Bohs (two oldest clubs in LOI) have been so immune from stick on this forum :eek:.

(f) new club that had the audacity to be successfull so early in its life ? Always amazed me how the same fans that bleat on about lack of investment in LOI moan about Fingal attracting, well, investment. St Pats near 3 million wage bill OK but Fingals wage bill not ? Perhaps because St pats won nothing that season ?

As for the "bad publicity for the for the LOI" nonsence, What bad publicity have they generated ?

as usual mar you chose to mis read what someone has posted my problem is that a football club was parachuted into the loi without any underpinning structures by a person or persons with no interest in the LOI and only motive was to build a property portfolio in fingal.
now i know its hard for you to acknowlege overspending by a club without building from the vbottom up but thats what happened here but then expecting a bohs fan for sound fundamentals in running a club was asking to much.

[peadar1987]

Realistically though there are only 3 big clubs in Ireland. And they are Rovers, Bohs and Dundalk. Even though LOI is a minority sport ask any man on the street they will tell you who they are.


I think on history and crowds, both Sligo and Derry have a legitimate claim to be considered big clubs.

[White Horse]

I think on history and crowds, both Sligo and Derry have a legitimate claim to be considered big clubs.

Sligo have won only two titles with the last being over 30 plus years ago.

Derry are still new boys in the league.

[Charlie Darwin]

UCD won the IFA intermediate cup in 1914, the FAI intermediate cup in 1945, were invited to join the original LOI and participated in the LOI senior cup in the 30's and 50's.

I don't think any UCD or Mons fans criticised Fingal's crowds. We do question how they can sustain the level of spending they've become accustomed to without a fanbase to generate revenue to replace Gannon's donations.
But nobody's suggested they can sustain the level of spending they've become accustomed to - you're questioning a position that nobody has put forward to begin with.

It's fine to have objections to Fingal and to perceive them to be "skipping the queue" or whatever, but the one thing that can be said of them is that they've operated more or less within the means that have been allocated to them. They could easily have pushed the boat out further and paid over the odds for every player but the people running the club do seem to have stuck to a model that can adapt to the withdrawal of funding. Pat's famously didn't do this and their fans are paying for it now, while Bohs and Drogs fans are paying for their clubs' excessive borrowing against imagined future revenue.

Any football fan can see that Fingal's business model to date has been a quick fix, and it's unfair on those clubs that they've leaped over, but the level of animosity the club invokes in some LOI fans (not you) amazes me sometimes.

[srfc1928]

I think on history and crowds, both Sligo and Derry have a legitimate claim to be considered big clubs.


Sligo have won only two titles with the last being over 30 plus years ago.

Derry are still new boys in the league.
By reading peaders post he never mentioned success as his criteria for his qualification of being a 'big club'
Im not sure we are considered a big club in LOI terms but our real success is to survive for over 80 years in a town with less than 20.000 people,
a complete outpost for football.
We've always paid our bills and 80% of the time have always drawn decent crowds despite our lack of sucess in terms of silverware.
Also, imo derry are a big club.

[bullit]

This thread is rapidly becoming the "Why your club is fcuking just the besht ever,and should be up with there with the immortals of loi" thread.
Also,i love derry to. so good they named it twice!!

[SkStu]

But nobody's suggested they can sustain the level of spending they've become accustomed to - you're questioning a position that nobody has put forward to begin with.

It's fine to have objections to Fingal and to perceive them to be "skipping the queue" or whatever, but the one thing that can be said of them is that they've operated more or less within the means that have been allocated to them. They could easily have pushed the boat out further and paid over the odds for every player but the people running the club do seem to have stuck to a model that can adapt to the withdrawal of funding. Pat's famously didn't do this and their fans are paying for it now, while Bohs and Drogs fans are paying for their clubs' excessive borrowing against imagined future revenue.

Any football fan can see that Fingal's business model to date has been a quick fix, and it's unfair on those clubs that they've leaped over, but the level of animosity the club invokes in some LOI fans (not you) amazes me sometimes.

this is a good post Charlie.

[Dodge]

They could easily have pushed the boat out further and paid over the odds for every player but the people running the club do seem to have stuck to a model that can adapt to the withdrawal of funding. Pat's famously didn't do this and their fans are paying for it now

Pats have been under budget every year since Dolan left. That the budget was wasted ins't the point. The money was allocated, and spent. Don't see how you can say Pats fans are paying for it now.

[sullanefc]

No county council or public body should ever be running a football club for the conflict of interest as outlined above. Sporting Fingal are receiving money they would not ever receive if they were a regular newly formed football club, this is putting all other clubs at a financial disadvantage and is not providing a level playing field. I can guarantee you Sporting Fingal aren't going to have much bother finding a replacement 'investor' for Gannon.

UCD is a public body. Should they not be allowed in the league as well? What is the problem with being owned by a county council anyway? You say it is not providing a level playing field. Surely no two football clubs operate on a financially level playing field? Sure look at Man City in the EPL getting Arab oil money to fund them. Look at Bohs drawing down money from the sale of Dalymount to fund the playing staff. That is a financial disadvantage to clubs who don't own a football ground in a prime location.

The only way you create a financial level playing field is if every team has the exact same budget. And thats hardly fair if one team creates far more revenue than another team.

Hint: Football is rarely fair. Get over it.


When Sporting Fingal was set up Fingal CoCo were saying that the main reason for forming the club was due to a high demand for LOI football in the area which has instantly proven to be codswallop. Nobody expects new clubs to instantly pick up large crowds but when an new entity comes in splashing the cash trying to buy trophies and trips to Europe while making wild claims that there is such a large demand for their formation is perfectly understandable for LOI fans to be asking what is the f-ing point.

Did the Fingal CoCo say there was a "high" demand for LOI football in the area? Surely there is no area in Ireland that has a "high" demand for LOI football. But maybe there was a "low/average" demand. Why not set up a football club? There are no other LOI clubs in the area so why not? Maybe they can grow there fan base over time and win over the locals? How do they win over the locals? By being successful. And how do they do that ... etc etc.

I think the bit in bold in the quoted post is what is bothering most of the naysayers here. Football fans are jealous of Sporting Fingal, and that's the bottom line. Many of the reasons for bad mouthing Sporting Fingal could be applied to many other clubs. Mervue and Salthill are two new clubs in the league in an area that already has a LOI club, why not dis them? Because they haven't spent money? They are not a threat to your club so you don't criticise them? Sporting Fingal have spent their way to an FAI cup and Europe and have passed out other clubs. Fans of these other clubs are just jealous.

[sullanefc]

Derry are still new boys in the league.

So if Manchester United were to join the LOI, they would not be considered a big club because they were "new boys in the league"? :rolleyes:

[Dodge]

Mervue and Salthill are two new clubs in the league in an area that already has a LOI club, why not dis them?

Because both are long established clubs who have climbed the ladder? And even then there are plenty of discussions here (and elsewhere) about the merits of their LOI ambitions

Personally I'm ambivelent enough about them. I liked some of the work they put in around the community there and they were far more active than msot in this area. I've a lot of time for Liam Buckley too

On the other hand it does seem like a bit of an ego trip for some people and the move to Dalymount doesn't reflect their "for Fingal people" ethos.

I also have a huge problem with some within Fingal County council and their push for independence. I see the football club as a part of this.

I also have a huge problem with some here seemingly forgetting that we're in a competive sport. The idea that we simply have to support all clubs and wish them all well is completely bizarre. So what if someone dislikes a club because they signed good players?

[sullanefc]

Because both are long established clubs who have climbed the ladder? And even then there are plenty of discussions here (and elsewhere) about the merits of their LOI ambitions

I don't see being "long established" as being a reason to like/dislike a club.


Personally I'm ambivelent enough about them. I liked some of the work they put in around the community there and they were far more active than msot in this area. I've a lot of time for Liam Buckley too

On the other hand it does seem like a bit of an ego trip for some people and the move to Dalymount doesn't reflect their "for Fingal people" ethos.

I also have a huge problem with some within Fingal County council and their push for independence. I see the football club as a part of this.

This is all inter-Dublin politics. Something I wouldn't really care about being from Cork, but other fans from outside the pale still take issue with them.


I also have a huge problem with some here seemingly forgetting that we're in a competive sport. The idea that we simply have to support all clubs and wish them all well is completely bizarre. So what if someone dislikes a club because they signed good players?
This is a proper and the real reason for disliking them IMO. Fair play to you for being honest enough to say it.

[pineapple stu]

UCD is a public body.
UCD isn't in the league. UCD AFC is. And the club isn't a public body. Nobody owns it.


It's fine to have objections to Fingal and to perceive them to be "skipping the queue" or whatever, but the one thing that can be said of them is that they've operated more or less within the means that have been allocated to them. They could easily have pushed the boat out further and paid over the odds for every player but the people running the club do seem to have stuck to a model that can adapt to the withdrawal of funding. Pat's famously didn't do this and their fans are paying for it now, while Bohs and Drogs fans are paying for their clubs' excessive borrowing against imagined future revenue.
I don't really agree with this. Firstly, Kelleher put his money where his mouth was in fairness, and when he pulled out (as he more or less seems to have done), Pat's could cope precisely because they hadn't borrowed against imagined future revenue. I'm not sure how you can put Pat's in the same group as Bohs and Drogs (or Cork or Derry or Dublin City). Secondly, Fingal made a E75k loss in 2009 despite winning the Cup; it's debatable as to whether that constitues operating within the means allocated to them. For any LoI club, that's a big loss. We don't know how they fared in 2010. Thirdly, I don't think there's any evidence whatsoever (either way) that SFFC can adapt to the withdrawal of funding. All that's tangibly happened so far is that several players have left and no-one's joined. That could point either way (all players are leaving, or maybe they're just getting rid of some players to replace them with u-20s), but it certainly can't point definitively to them being stable or unstable.

Also, this -

I also have a huge problem with some here seemingly forgetting that we're in a competive sport. The idea that we simply have to support all clubs and wish them all well is completely bizarre. So what if someone dislikes a club because they signed good players?

[Dodge]

I don't see being "long established" as being a reason to like/dislike a club.
It doesn't matter what you think. It is absolutely a reason why some dislike Fingal. Count how many times the word Franchise is used


This is all inter-Dublin politics. Something I wouldn't really care about being from Cork, but other fans from outside the pale still take issue with them.Again, it doesn't matter what you think, its just another reason why some dislike them


This is a proper and the real reason for disliking them IMO. Fair play to you for being honest enough to say it.
To be clear, I don't dislike Fingal (as explained above) and I couldn't dislike a team simply because they had better players.

[Charlie Darwin]

Pats have been under budget every year since Dolan left. That the budget was wasted ins't the point. The money was allocated, and spent. Don't see how you can say Pats fans are paying for it now.
I must have the wrong end of the stick - I was under the impression Pat's had up to a million in debt - I must have been thinking of a budget deficit. If Kelleher paid that out of his own pocket then fair play, it's the same as Fingal and Pat's have shown the foresight ability to slim down considerably.


I don't really agree with this. Firstly, Kelleher put his money where his mouth was in fairness, and when he pulled out (as he more or less seems to have done), Pat's could cope precisely because they hadn't borrowed against imagined future revenue. I'm not sure how you can put Pat's in the same group as Bohs and Drogs (or Cork or Derry or Dublin City). Secondly, Fingal made a E75k loss in 2009 despite winning the Cup; it's debatable as to whether that constitues operating within the means allocated to them. For any LoI club, that's a big loss. We don't know how they fared in 2010. Thirdly, I don't think there's any evidence whatsoever (either way) that SFFC can adapt to the withdrawal of funding. All that's tangibly happened so far is that several players have left and no-one's joined. That could point either way (all players are leaving, or maybe they're just getting rid of some players to replace them with u-20s), but it certainly can't point definitively to them being stable or unstable.
Well I can't say for sure since I don't know the ins and outs, but they were able to release a lot of players this year, presumably at little or no cost, and have hung onto the ones who have theoretical cash value. I know the club organised jobs in sports development for a couple of the players instead of offering them full-time contracts, so they do seem to have at least had a contingency in place for the withdrawal of funding. Again, compare it to Bohs who can't get rid of any of their high earners.

At the same time, I do know of players who turned down contract with Fingal in the first division because they were only offering full-time.

[avvenalaf]

So if Manchester United were to join the LOI, they would not be considered a big club because they were "new boys in the league"? :rolleyes:

They could play all their home games in Dublin - they have more supporters there than they have in Manchester.

[pineapple stu]

The thing is, it's been reported earlier in the thread that Fingal (and Sligo) are the only teams offering 52-week (i.e. full-time) contracts at the moment, and that they have nine players (I think it was) under contract for next season. On crowds of a few hundred - with continual suggestions that their crowds are overstated and that many get in for free, which seemed to be backed up by a markedly lower crowd in the Cup, when the FAI were watching for their share - that doesn't add up without Gannon's money.

I don't know if they're sustainable in their non-Gannon form. I'm very much tending towards no. But there certainly isn't the evidence for you to suggest that they are stable, and so people are wrong to criticise them.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well according to Stephen McGuinness (not the most reliable source, I know) no clubs are offering 52-week contracts to free agents. I'm guessing Sligo have retained some or all of their re-signees on full-time contracts but I'd be shocked if they were offering them to free agents.

Fingal won't be offering full-time contracts. They just don't have the cash to do it and I don't see why any bank would choose to extend the credit to them when their earning potential is minimal and they have no property to back it with. If they are offering full-time contracts I'll retract everything I've said and get on the "Boo Fingal!" bandwagon but I don't think I'll be proven wrong.

That's not to say Fingal won't lose money, because their revenues are fairly minor and they do still have players on full-time contracts, but my opinion based on the club's conduct so far is that they won't commit hara-kiri.

[pineapple stu]

Well according to Stephen McGuinness (not the most reliable source, I know) no clubs are offering 52-week contracts to free agents. I'm guessing Sligo have retained some or all of their re-signees on full-time contracts but I'd be shocked if they were offering them to free agents.
Point (and scepticism) taken; I think the article I read was referring to last season, which would then relate to my point about the players currently under contract, and the problems that that could cause them next season.

(I presume Bohs had stopped offering 52-week contracts at the start of this season, but still had some hanging over them). I'd be very surprised if Fingal were offering 52-week contracts at the moment (in fact, they don't seem to have tried to sign anyone).

[sullanefc]

It doesn't matter what you think. It is absolutely a reason why some dislike Fingal. Count how many times the word Franchise is used

Again, it doesn't matter what you think, its just another reason why some dislike them


To be clear, I don't dislike Fingal (as explained above) and I couldn't dislike a team simply because they had better players.
You're right, it doesn't mater what I think, its just my opinion. In fact it doesn't matter what any other supporter thinks. My problem is the righteous attitude of supporters of certain other clubs who are just jealous of their success and backing but not being honest enough to say so.

[pineapple stu]

My problem is the righteous attitude of supporters of certain other clubs who are just jealous of their success and backing but not being honest enough to say so.
There's been a fair few posts like this (or of throwing out vague accusations of Fingal bashing). I think it would be a lot easier to address the issues if people highlighted actual posts they had issues with; I don't think anyone's actually done that so far.

[The Lep]

There's been a fair few posts like this (or of throwing out vague accusations of Fingal bashing). I think it would be a lot easier to address the issues if people highlighted actual posts they had issues with; I don't think anyone's actually done that so far.

Are you for real? What do you think i was doing? Nearly half of the thread is Fingal bashing and the other is a proper discussion for and against the thread title or Sporting Fingal in general. Surely the topic doesnt merit 40 pages now does it wether its for or against.

[passerrby]

You're right, it doesn't mater what I think, its just my opinion. In fact it doesn't matter what any other supporter thinks. My problem is the righteous attitude of supporters of certain other clubs who are just jealous of their success and backing but not being honest enough to say so.
I think sullen you totally misunderstand the point we are making but most of all the reason why we are making these points I for one am in no way jealous of any other club or there success .My basic arguement is simple and no refelection on fingal but that the fai allowed a team to be parachutes into the highest league in the land without any past .. and it appears withourt any tangable future
but you are right it is just my opinion

[sullanefc]

My basic arguement is simple and no refelection on fingal but that the fai allowed a team to be parachutes into the highest league in the land without any past
I know its only your opinion, but why are people so hung up on the fact that they have no history? So what. History doesn't win leagues and cups.

.. and it appears withourt any tangable future
How do you know this? Fair enough if they owed a load of money they could be in danger of going out of business, but they don't. They may thrive and prosper for all we know.

[poster]

The thing is, it's been reported earlier in the thread that Fingal (and Sligo) are the only teams offering 52-week (i.e. full-time) contracts at the moment.

Ya, reported but not true as far as Sligo Rovers are concerned. We had to extend our full squads contracts from the morning after we beat Pat's to the night of the 14th of November. I can only assume the contracts being offered to players for '11 season run out the morning after our last game of the season this year.

[passerrby]

I know its only your opinion, but why are people so hung up on the fact that they have no history? So what. History doesn't win leagues and cups.

How do you know this? Fair enough if they owed a load of money they could be in danger of going out of business, but they don't. They may thrive and prosper for all we know.

becuase the one thing our league needs is stability. and if it is just about winning leagus and cups then lets return to the ollie byrne school of running a club and lets all chase success without a eye to the future
as for my second point you are right they may i have nio way of knowing just a hunch

[The Lep]

I think sullen you totally misunderstand the point we are making but most of all the reason why we are making these points I for one am in no way jealous of any other club or there success .My basic arguement is simple and no refelection on fingal but that the fai allowed a team to be parachutes into the highest league in the land without any past .. and it appears withourt any tangable future
but you are right it is just my opinion

The first division isnt the highest league in the land and how many teams with any history started the league back all them years ago. ?

[sullanefc]

becuase the one thing our league needs is stability. and if it is just about winning leagus and cups then lets return to the ollie byrne school of running a club and lets all chase success without a eye to the future
as for my second point you are right they may i have nio way of knowing just a hunch

How does history create stability in the league? Do you mean stability in that no new clubs should join the league? Salthill and Mervue have some history, and they were "parachuted" into the league as well. Does it make it ok because they have history? They have no history in the LOI, just that they existed in the Galway leagues before they joined LOI.

In fact, before the A championship, how did any team gain entry to the league? Are you saying we should close the league to new clubs just for stability sake?

Your logic makes no sense to me.




as for my second point you are right they may i have nio way of knowing just a hunch
Or a wish perhaps.

[redobit]

How does history create stability in the league? Do you mean stability in that no new clubs should join the league? Salthill and Mervue have some history, and they were "parachuted" into the league as well. Does it make it ok because they have history? They have no history in the LOI, just that they existed in the Galway leagues before they joined LOI.

In fact, before the A championship, how did any team gain entry to the league? Are you saying we should close the league to new clubs just for stability sake?



Back in the day teams were voted in (and possibly out) by the other clubs into the top division.

[peadar1987]

Back in the day teams were voted in (and possibly out) by the other clubs into the top division.

I wouldn't let the current crop of LOI clubs decide what colour socks to wear, let alone something important like who should be allowed into the league.

[bullit]

:teeth:As predicted this thread has turned into the "ive the biggest knob" thread.The same arguments over and feckin over.
Lazy days and a thread 20 pages+ over its sell by date.
roll on the season

[passerrby]

The first division isnt the highest league in the land and how many teams with any history started the league back all them years ago. ?
the leage of ireland is .. and look where most have the ended up

[marinobohs]

as usual mar you chose to mis read what someone has posted my problem is that a football club was parachuted into the loi without any underpinning structures by a person or persons with no interest in the LOI and only motive was to build a property portfolio in fingal.
now i know its hard for you to acknowlege overspending by a club without building from the vbottom up but thats what happened here but then expecting a bohs fan for sound fundamentals in running a club was asking to much.

Apols PB I perhaps should have made clearer that I was addressing a number of points raised throuhout the thread and not just your (quoted) post. hope that clears it up ?

Your jibe about Bohs/finances is as relevant as asking what a Mons fan knows about, football at top level (promotion), success or developing a club, so maybe leave our clubs out of it and focus on Fingal ?

many of those involved in Sporting Fingal are involved for football reasons so your "only motive was to build a property portfolio" argument is ridiculous (unless you have evidence to the contrary). Similarly (as has been pointed out) Sporting Fingals entry to the First Division (even you must accept they earned promotion to the Premier Division) is more the rule than the exception - the "new" Cork and Derry clubs granted the same only last season - so why is it such a problem that Fingal were "parachuted" in as oppossed to other clubs ?

[legendz]

When Fingal were parachuted in, I didn't hear any of the other A Championship clubs complaining.

[passerrby]

When Fingal were parachuted in, I didn't hear any of the other A Championship clubs complaining.
why do you work for the complaints department ,

your right marobohs the jibe was unnessary apoligies ,my point remains and will be always be that bringing in new clubs instead of promoting the present ones is not a solution nobody can argue that merve or salthills entry to LOI is an improvment to LOI espically in galway. the same applies to dublin we need strong clubs not more clubs.

[marinobohs]

your right marobohs the jibe was unnessary apoligies ,my point remains and will be always be that bringing in new clubs instead of promoting the present ones is not a solution nobody can argue that merve or salthills entry to LOI is an improvment to LOI espically in galway. the same applies to dublin we need strong clubs not more clubs.

Actually, PB I agree with your point in principle although think there should be provision for rare exception(s). Probobly off thread but unfortunately until we introduce a formal promotion/relegation structure between the leagues there will continue to be a disconnect.
RE Dublin I recall - probobly wrongly - the Genesis report (that old chestnut) recommended two decent stadia in Dublin (one Northside one Southside) presumably hosting at most 4 teams (two each). To be honest my own view is that such an approach (geographically siting clubs) really only works in a green site League set up. To be fair the FAI did try and "facilitate" this approach by backing a Shels proposal to buy into Dalymount, unfortunately due to cack handed approach and oppurtunism it ended up leading to the downfall of both clubs.There was also talk of St Pats moving to SDCC stadium tallaght which (had it succeeded) would have had Bohs/Shels playing from a redeveloped Dalymount and Shams/Pats from SDCC Sadium. St Pats opted not to pursue this option and the "restructuring" of Dublin clubs appeared to be abandoned.