Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[legendz]

Money is already there to pay them. Down 750k down 33% on gate receipts ? Have you made sure them figures are correct before posting them or did you just read it somewhere and belive it to be true? :)

Ha ha, it's like you are going fishing and catching people out one by one! :cool:
If the money is there as you say, I can't see many problems for next season. The club have a year then to look at where it might have to restructure and who knows what can happen in the mean time?

[The Lep]

Exactly.

Off topic

Is there any Lanzarote fc fans on here ? :)

[Lamper.sffc]

Ok. I thinks its Bohs turn next and then Galway if you would like to come in after that, that would great and then if everybody could please make there way over to the Drogheda thread we can get things started there :)

[Spudulika]

Lep - thanks for the reply to my questions, as much as I admire both you and lampers enthuasiastic posts here about your club I really think 1. you have to accept that your club has gone as far as it will ever go, and next season will see a totally different set up - infact how can you even pretend that you can be competitive unless Gannon has pre paid for another season upfront.

2. I didnt agree one bit about the set up of the club, i was a little interested when I heard about the possible move to Rush or Lusk, but that never took off, and apart from a tidy side to look at the club never made an impression with the public with 3. home crowds frequently under 1,000, I thought they actually devalued the Premier Division at times. It was a 4. totally pointless project in my view.

Next season, a top 5 of the two Rovers, Pats, Dundalk & Derry has a nice look to it in terms of quality, fans and tradition, Bohs are the obvious ones to miss here, but they will be back at some point.

Oriel, the following are important to remember:
1. I heard the exact same thing about Dundalk back in 2000, and again in 2002. The same can be said about any club - even Manchester United winning all before them, what else can they do? A club only goes as far as it's management want it to, the community plans and work of the club are something that would put our own to shame.
2. Why? Should we just close off all club registration? We make do with what we have? I only question this as clubs form, re-form and disband , it's life. Were you against Cork City FORAS and new Derry City? Or are they different because they're acceptable?
3. If attendances are anything to go by then our own club should have been wound up years ago. I don't know if you were there when we struggled to compete with poor Limerick and Waterford sides back in 2000? There was a time when crowds in Dundalk were struggling to get past 500, so if this devalues the league then we should immediately get rid of UCD, Drogheda, Bray etc etc. If anything SF added to the league with their brand of football which probably cost them.
4. They finished a few points ahead of us, as well as continuing to contribute to the community. Your view is your view, though you need to balance it.

Please don't take this as a go at you, you're entitled to your opinion and you're right insofar as it points out the dangers of a single benefactor, we've had it in Dundalk long enough. If we start knocking other clubs pretty soon we'll find ourselves sliding down with knocks ourselves!

[bullit]

Oriel, the following are important to remember:......................................... .................................................. .................................................. ...............

Please don't take this as a go at you, you're entitled to your opinion and you're right insofar as it points out the dangers of a single benefactor, we've had it in Dundalk long enough. If we start knocking other clubs pretty soon we'll find ourselves sliding down with knocks ourselves!

Bang on the money.

Something that every DundalkFC supporter should ALWAYS remember.

[Louth4sam]

Ha ha, it's like you are going fishing and catching people out one by one! :cool:

How did he catch me out?????


Money is already there to pay them. Down 750k down 33% on gate receipts ? Have you made sure them figures are correct before posting them or did you just read it somewhere and belive it to be true? :)

Gerry Gannon has removed 750,000 investment.
Ticket prices have come down from €15 to €10 so unless the attendances improve then that is a 33% decrease in gate receipts

So seeing as these facts have come from both the national media and the ticket prices from your own club why would I not believe them? How can the money already be there?

[pineapple stu]

Don't feed the trolls and they'll go away, by the way.

[osarusan]

Absolutely inappropriate comment from a moderator of the forum.

[pineapple stu]

Possibly. Edited. I feel much better now though. :)

[John83]

Absolutely inappropriate comment from a moderator of the forum.
He's edited the post, but I'm conflicted. I agreed with both of you.

[The Lep]

How did he catch me out?????



Gerry Gannon has removed 750,000 investment.
Ticket prices have come down from €15 to €10 so unless the attendances improve then that is a 33% decrease in gate receipts

So seeing as these facts have come from both the national media and the ticket prices from your own club why would I not believe them? How can the money already be there?

Gannon hasnt removed anything. You cant say that our gates receipts are down when we havent played out the new season yet. Repost that next november if it applies.
How can the money already be there? Are you being serious?

[legendz]

Absolutely inappropriate comment from a moderator of the forum.

Spot on. The original post was a disgrace.

[Louth4sam]

Gannon hasnt removed anything.

This seems to contradict what ALL media sources are saying.



You cant say that our gates receipts are down when we havent played out the new season yet. Repost that next november if it applies.

I have said that unless your attendances improve you will be down 33% on gate receipts. Do you really believe that your attendances will rise by 1/3?? Give an honest answer please


How can the money already be there? Are you being serious?

Yes I am serious. Please explain how you already have money.

[Schumi]

I have said that unless your attendances improve you will be down 33% on gate receipts. Do you really believe that your attendances will rise by 1/3?? Give an honest answer please

The attendances would have to rise by 1/2 to keep gate receipts the same BTW.

[The Lep]

Read your post carefully and try and understand what you are posting. There is no point in me trying to break it down bit by bit for you when you can do that yourself.

[pineapple stu]

Lep, that post is meaningless and is bordering on trolling. If you want to counter the statements made in a post, do so. Please give over the "I've made this as simple as I can" nonsense.

[Louth4sam]

The attendances would have to rise by 1/2 to keep gate receipts the same BTW.

Oops you are correct. Makes the Leps posts seem even more foolish.


Read your post carefully and try and understand what you are posting. There is no point in me trying to break it down bit by bit for you when you can do that yourself.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt about being a WUM but your last post proves you are. Good luck with the money tree harvest in Lusk!

[The Lep]

This seems to contradict what ALL media sources are saying.


I have said that unless your attendances improve you will be down 33% on gate receipts. Do you really believe that your attendances will rise by 1/3?? Give an honest answer please

Troll



Yes I am serious. Please explain how you already have money.


Lep, that post is meaningless and is bordering on trolling. If you want to counter the statements made in a post, do so. Please give over the "I've made this as simple as I can" nonsense.

No its not. Ive explained it all in previous posts. Its funny how you dont say anything about the wind up posts and post trolling comments yourself before editing.

[legendz]

Lep, that post is meaningless and is bordering on trolling. If you want to counter the statements made in a post, do so. Please give over the "I've made this as simple as I can" nonsense.

The original post you made and the remarks about him were a disgrace.

Back on topic, it's good to hear Fingal seem to be secure for next season.

[The Lep]

This is my last post on the thread and on the board . I enjoyed the discussion no matter if it was postitive or negative against Fingal but there isnt a point to carry on posting if your posts keep getting removed for so called trolling even if those posts are made in reply to obvious wind up posts.
Thanks and goodbye.

[Louth4sam]

Back on topic, it's good to hear Fingal seem to be secure for next season.

Because Lep says so?

[pineapple stu]

Back on topic, it's good to hear Fingal seem to be secure for next season.
Who told you that?

[Louth4sam]

This is my last post on the thread and on the board . I enjoyed the discussion no matter if it was postitive or negative against Fingal but there isnt a point to carry on posting if your posts keep getting removed for so called trolling even if those posts are made in reply to obvious wind up posts.
Thanks and goodbye.

At last. We might be able to have a sensible discussion on the matter now.

[legendz]

I think the lad is getting a hard time. Time will tell anyways as to whether they have the backing or not secure for next season. If they have they'll be grand and if not, they will be in trouble.

[pineapple stu]

Fianna Fáil are getting a hard time at the moment. Are you going to vote for them in the election?

[Louth4sam]

I think the lad is getting a hard time. Time will tell anyways as to whether they have the backing or not secure for next season. If they have they'll be grand and if not, they will be in trouble.

legendz why do you choose to believe The Leps opinion rather than all the facts that have been presented by credible media sources?

[legendz]

Fianna Fáil are getting a hard time at the moment. Are you going to vote for them in the election?

Some of the comments directed at the lad were over the top to be fair. Why else would a post with comments on him have been edited?
Fianna Fail deserve their hard time, they are a bunch of gangsters.

I hope Sporting Fingal get passed the loss of Gannon's support. It's great to see a new club join the league. It can ruffle feathers but that's the way it goes. The Fingal project seems to be a sound one.

[legendz]

legendz why do you choose to believe The Leps opinion rather than all the facts that have been presented by credible media sources?

I'm not choosing to believe fully. I've replied to the lad that if they have the financial backing for next season they'll be ok. I've used the word if, I can only wait for clarity on the matter as well.

[pineapple stu]

No harm legendz, but you're coming across as very naive. There's no point believing stuff because you hope it'll happen. And there's no point continuing to ignore media reports and legal documents, as have already been pointed out to you by L4S. Inspect the facts and draw conclusions. Don't draw conclusions based on what you hope will happen.

Edit - also, that's the first time you've incorporated an "if", I think. Previously, it was -

it's good to hear Fingal seem to be secure for next season.
Obviously if they have backing for next year, they'll be fine. But if my auntie had balls... That's completely irrelevant to what's actually happening.

[passinginterest]

I'm willing to give the Lep a little bit of slack here. Fingal have been aware of the likelyhood of Gannon dropping out for most of the last year, so we can take it that they have been planning to operate without his contribution, we could then take it that they have prepared a budget for 2011 based on income from other sources (Keelings being another major sponsor and presumably the major contributor). If we look at it that way then they haven't lost €750,000 from their budget, they have also announced the decision to cut entry prices very early, so we could chose to accept that they have budgeted for a possible cut of at least 1/3 in gate receipts. They've already released a number of highly paid players so there is likely to be a major cut in their wage bill.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic that this is the case, and it looks like they will find it difficult to meet all of their obligations this season, but it's a little early to write the off completely. The whole concept of "Sport in Fingal" is quite an admirable one, although Sporting Fingal FC does seem to have attempted to run before it should even be toddling, I'd like to see the FC survive and downsize and become the real community project that it initially seemed to be.

[legendz]

Ha ha, it's like you are going fishing and catching people out one by one! :cool:
If the money is there as you say, I can't see many problems for next season. The club have a year then to look at where it might have to restructure and who knows what can happen in the mean time?

20/12/2010 12:30 AM, I used the word if here for the first time when I've given him the benefit of the doubt.
I use the word if because my understanding is the money is not there but if it transpires the money is, well it'll be I've said in this quoted post of mine.

[Dodge]

Just on Lep, there's a fair chance he's just messing lads. Mainly to get some of you all riled up. There's no doubt he'll be more familiar with the problems than us. That he chooses not to address them here isn't an issue

[pineapple stu]

20/12/2010 12:30 AM, I used the word if here for the first time when I've given him the benefit of the doubt.
I use the word if because my understanding is the money is not there but if it transpires the money is, well it'll be I've said in this quoted post of mine.
Fair enough. I was going on your follow-on post.

But again though, if the money is there, of course there won't be any problems next season. But that's quite pretty much the definition of stating the obvious.

[Louth4sam]

20/12/2010 12:30 AM, I used the word if here for the first time when I've given him the benefit of the doubt.
I use the word if because my understanding is the money is not there but if it transpires the money is, well it'll be I've said in this quoted post of mine.

Em no you haven't.

The first line of the post is "Ha ha, it's like you are going fishing and catching people out one by one"
If you are being objective and neutral then how has he caught me out? I presented two facts that have been in the national media. He more or less replied don't believe everything you read and that was good enough to "Catch me out"?

[John83]

Just on Lep, there's a fair chance he's just messing lads. Mainly to get some of you all riled up.
There's a word for that on internet forums. It begins with "t", and rhymes with "roll".

[Dodge]

As above, either mods deal with it or posters ignore it

Personally haven't taken much stock in his posts since he said 700+ at a Fingal/Pats game when it wasn't half that

[SkStu]

I think the lad is getting a hard time. Time will tell anyways as to whether they have the backing or not secure for next season. If they have they'll be grand and if not, they will be in trouble.

he's brought it upon himself. I have no sympathy for him or his poxy club at all.

Cheerio Lep.

[BonnieShels]

He seemed to only ever be about when this thread was commented on. He drove me spare but no matter and I think to be fair to other Spingal fans he gave em a bad rep all in all.

But answer me this does the title of this thread irk anyone else but me? Surely it should be "Are Sporting..."?

[John83]

But answer me this does the title of this thread irk anyone else but me? Surely it should be "Are Sporting..."?
I once had a long discussion with Bald Student over that question of whether to treat a club as an instance of a singular noun (it) or as a collective noun (they). We agreed in the end never to speak about the subject ever again.

[PartySaint]

I once had a long discussion with Bald Student over that question of whether to treat a club as an instance of a singular noun (it) or as a collective noun (they). We agreed in the end never to speak about the subject ever again.

Sounds like a good night

[dahamsta]

The Lep has made his point and withdrawn from the thread, and possibly the forum. Back on topic please, this thread is too messy to split so it's either that, or I'm binning the lot.

[total hoofball]

Fingal have been aware of the likelyhood of Gannon dropping out for most of the last year, so we can take it that they have been planning to operate without his contribution
The signings of big name players like Colin Hawkins and Ollie Cahill as recently as July disprove that.


we could then take it that they have prepared a budget for 2011 based on income from other sources (Keelings being another major sponsor and presumably the major contributor). If we look at it that way then they haven't lost €750,000 from their budget

Keelings reduced their funding/sponsorship in early 09' when the recession bit them in the arse and since then their business has declined with the loss of a big Tesco contract and subsequent redundancies. I don't have concrete figures but I've been told the amount they were pumping into the Fingal last season is a fraction of the 250k that they initially invested in 2008.

There is not a chance in absolute hell Keelings or any other business in this economic climate will make up even a small dent of the 750k+ that will vanish for Fingal in 2011.


they have also announced the decision to cut entry prices very early, so we could chose to accept that they have budgeted for a possible cut of at least 1/3 in gate receipts. They've already released a number of highly paid players so there is likely to be a major cut in their wage bill.
Yep with the release of guys like Zayed and O'Neill to name a few the wage bill will be significantly cut, but the problem is that they are cutting from such a wildly inflated height that even what they are left with is still too much of a burden without further subsidising.

They still have 9 players under contract, all 52 week full-time contracts. Some of those players are on over a grand a week. Even if they don't sign one more paid player and have 10 amateurs making up the remainder of their squad I conservatively estimate their playing wage bill will still be 6k a week. That doesn't take into account the full-time contracts of the management, backroom staff and the office staff to add to that. They have a tiny fanbase, their attendances are inflated by free-tickets, even with all that some of their announced attendances at the end of last season appear to be fabricated. On top of the tiny fanbase is they have no home ground and no external sources of income. They will still have some small sponsors and UEFA money but I can't see them breaking even and becoming sustainable unless they start pulling in at least 2,000 punters at €10 a pop to every league game. If they couldn't attract people when they had the money to splash out on big name players, giving away free tickets and pricey marketing campaigns then there isn't chance that will happen when they have to live within their means like every other who LOI club who have the advantage of established fanbases and history behind them. The only hope of survival I can see for them is to negotiate redundancies with the 9 f/t players and staff, request to drop down to the First Division on a shoestring budget and get the council to construct that earmarked facility on a scaled down basis to meet the basic LOI requirements and try to implement the Wexford Youths model and build slowly from there.

[Mr A]

Don't see how dropping down a division would help them as that would decrease income even more, but the rest of that seems to be spot on.

[Schumi]

they have no home ground I don't think the council charge them any rent, so that's not an issue really. I don't think other clubs (bar Dundalk) get much income from their grounds on non-match nights.


The only hope of survival I can see for them is to negotiate redundancies with the 9 f/t players and staff, request to drop down to the First Division on a shoestring budgetDropping to the First Division wouldn't help. They'll get bigger crowds in the premier, the travelling costs will be lower and you can have just as shoestring a budget in the premier. Granted the results could be bad but financially, the premier would be much better.

[Dodge]

I don't think the council charge them any rent, so that's not an issue really

Do the Council own the ground? I thought they rented it from Clonliffe (and I'll admit I wouldn't be at all confident tht I'm right...)

[pineapple stu]

Random google (http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2006/0711/ireland/morton-stadium-will-continue-as-athletics-venue-vows-minister-8030.html) result -


Bohemians football club has been negotiating the sale or lease of Morton Stadium with the owners, Fingal County Council.
Not conclusive evidence, but it looks like it's council-owned alright.

[poster]

It's great to see a new club join the league.

Probably the worst thing that could happen, if SF go.

[Lamper.sffc]

The signings of big name players like Colin Hawkins and Ollie Cahill as recently as July disprove that.



Keelings reduced their funding/sponsorship in early 09' when the recession bit them in the arse and since then their business has declined with the loss of a big Tesco contract and subsequent redundancies. I don't have concrete figures but I've been told the amount they were pumping into the Fingal last season is a fraction of the 250k that they initially invested in 2008.

There is not a chance in absolute hell Keelings or any other business in this economic climate will make up even a small dent of the 750k+ that will vanish for Fingal in 2011.


Yep with the release of guys like Zayed and O'Neill to name a few the wage bill will be significantly cut, but the problem is that they are cutting from such a wildly inflated height that even what they are left with is still too much of a burden without further subsidising.

They still have 9 players under contract, all 52 week full-time contracts. Some of those players are on over a grand a week. Even if they don't sign one more paid player and have 10 amateurs making up the remainder of their squad I conservatively estimate their playing wage bill will still be 6k a week. That doesn't take into account the full-time contracts of the management, backroom staff and the office staff to add to that. They have a tiny fanbase, their attendances are inflated by free-tickets, even with all that some of their announced attendances at the end of last season appear to be fabricated. On top of the tiny fanbase is they have no home ground and no external sources of income. They will still have some small sponsors and UEFA money but I can't see them breaking even and becoming sustainable unless they start pulling in at least 2,000 punters at €10 a pop to every league game. If they couldn't attract people when they had the money to splash out on big name players, giving away free tickets and pricey marketing campaigns then there isn't chance that will happen when they have to live within their means like every other who LOI club who have the advantage of established fanbases and history behind them. The only hope of survival I can see for them is to negotiate redundancies with the 9 f/t players and staff, request to drop down to the First Division on a shoestring budget and get the council to construct that earmarked facility on a scaled down basis to meet the basic LOI requirements and try to implement the Wexford Youths model and build slowly from there.

As if I wasnt depressed enough already about our situation. Cheers Hoofball. :sad:

[Charlie Darwin]

The signings of big name players like Colin Hawkins and Ollie Cahill as recently as July disprove that.
I'd say flying the team out 4 days early for the Maritimo game was the bigger extravagance.

[legendz]

It was too. There is no need to arrive too early to away games. Ireland made the same mistake once away to Israel. For the '05 CL final, both Liverpool and Milan only arrived on the Monday. Two days before is grand. There seems to be an idea arriving 3-4 days early is great preparation where it isn't really.