Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[Eminence Grise]

Screw the new stadium, I say they build a pyramid. ;)

A pyramid scheme? Why not? It's just about the only financial model the league hasn't seen in recent years...

[OneForTheFuture]

Screw the new stadium, I say they build a pyramid. ;)


Along the lines of..........

1707

[CSFShels]

From the reports I've read it looks likely some players will not be retained and others sold. I don't think the club will go bust. I think they will move to Lusk eventually but it's hard to see any movement on a stadium being built in the near future.
See the issue is tricky here. Once success gos, and the loss of Fingal's finances will almost certainly mean the loss of success, you're relying on fan loyalty. All the big teams have seen their attendances plummet after dropping a division, if Fingal drop to that level (financially it probably would be their level, if you consider their finances relative to their fanbase) they're back to attendances circa 400. But then the question is, will it drop further? When Fingal were in the First Division before, it was with the promise of success, and the funding to guarantee it. Perhaps only the most loyal to Fingal will stick around for cold October nights at home to footballing minnows like Mervue, Salthill and Cork. I also think there'll be big problems if financial difficulties are encountered, because I just don't think there'll be enough fans willing to step upto the plate and put in the donkeys work to save the club. My prediction is a gradual decline, with Fingal either gone, or right down the bottom of the ladder in 3-4 years.

Of course the ever witty The Lep will be in to tell me not to worry, his sources have informed him that everything is fine. Fingal will be around a long time yet, not to worry. But I've my doubts.

[Jofspring]

From the outside they really do look like they are heading down the Dublin City, Kilkenny, Kildare County Route.

If Fingals success does go and they where to drop down the division over the next few seasons and into the bottom half i would think they'd be lucky to get 50 or 60 fans at games.

[legendz]

By the sounds of things they won't have the financial backing they've had, so it's most likely they are going to drop somewhat. The club seemed to have been found for the right reasons though as part of a long-term strategy. As most know, the financial backing and quick promotion did accelerate things a bit. If they do drop, I think they'll still be competitive in the First Division. As long as they can consolidate there, which I think they can, in time the club should be able to build. Cork got a team to the top half of Division One this year and were within a shout of the play-offs until the last few weeks. I don't think Fingal would drop lower than that and will have seasons something along those lines for a few years.

[Jofspring]

By the sounds of things they won't have the financial backing they've had, so it's most likely they are going to drop somewhat. The club seemed to have been found for the right reasons though as part of a long-term strategy. As most know, the financial backing and quick promotion did accelerate things a bit. If they do drop, I think they'll still be competitive in the First Division. As long as they can consolidate there, which I think they can, in time the club should be able to build. Cork got a team to the top half of Division One this year and were within a shout of the play-offs until the last few weeks. I don't think Fingal would drop lower than that and will have seasons something along those lines for a few years.

Thing about that though is Cork have a good die hard fan base and Fingal don't. Much easier to attract better players when your gates are good and there is more money available. If Fingal where down to the first and on a slump it wouldn't be as easy for them to come down a division and sign good enough players to be competitive.

[CSFShels]

Yeah I'd imagine Fingal won't be able to afford a fraction of that budget if they were to be relegated. And they'd be competing with alot more clubs for players in the Dublin area. But don't worry, The Lep has assured us Fingal will be around for a very long time. He has sources.

[Dodge]

Yeah I'd imagine Fingal won't be able to afford a fraction of that budget if they were to be relegated. And they'd be competing with alot more clubs for players in the Dublin area. But don't worry, The Lep has assured us Fingal will be around for a very long time. He has sources.

Not just sources, he knows something Shels fans don't...

[The Lep]

By the sounds of things they won't have the financial backing they've had, so it's most likely they are going to drop somewhat. The club seemed to have been found for the right reasons though as part of a long-term strategy. As most know, the financial backing and quick promotion did accelerate things a bit. If they do drop, I think they'll still be competitive in the First Division. As long as they can consolidate there, which I think they can, in time the club should be able to build. Cork got a team to the top half of Division One this year and were within a shout of the play-offs until the last few weeks. I don't think Fingal would drop lower than that and will have seasons something along those lines for a few years.

I agree with your post but Next season im confident of a top 3 finish but after that then who knows as is the same with every club. Every team in the league re evaluates their budgets before the start of each season with some being more public than others. A lot of teams have had the same kind of publicity over their finances like St Pats a while ago and they seem to be fine now .

Jofspring,
Thats true enough.

Shells heads,
I know something that you dont ;)

[OneForTheFuture]

Mervue fans know something Fingal Fans don't!

[Buile Shuibhne]

Shells heads,
I know something that you dont ;)


You don't seem to know that Shels is spelt with one l.

[Charlie Darwin]

You don't seem to know that Shels is spelt with one l.
The club is a shell of its former self.

[The Lep]

You don't seem to know that Shels is spelt with one l.

Its gone over your head hasnt it :)

[Mario]

Buckley has only fooled himself blowing money on wages and living beyond way their means the past few years.

If he is serious about building a club from the bottom club up, then he should slash it back to an amateur set-up untill he has the ground facilities in place.

The whole thing stinks and it will all end in tears as usual for clubs here living beyond their means!

[Charlie Darwin]

They'll only be living beyond their means if/when Gannon pulls the plug. As long as they've a backer pumping money into the club with no expectation of return, they are living within their means.

[BonnieShels]

But that will be coming to am abrupt end soon. Though the FAI will find a way to sort it out so everything will be just fine.

[Charlie Darwin]

Do you have know something we don't etc.

[legendz]

Have Fingal invested any money into facilities?
They need a home and to see through their plans for a stadium in Lusk. I don't think so much money should have been going into player wages when they have all that to sort out.

[White Horse]

Buckley has only fooled himself blowing money on wages and living beyond way their means the past few years.

If he is serious about building a club from the bottom club up, then he should slash it back to an amateur set-up untill he has the ground facilities in place.

The whole thing stinks and it will all end in tears as usual for clubs here living beyond their means!

Sporting Fingal think that the laws of economics do not apply to them.

If they pull it off, it will be a remarkable achievement.

[Jofspring]

If he is serious about building a club from the bottom club up, then he should slash it back to an amateur set-up untill he has the ground facilities in place.

You have a good point there. If Fingal had started out amateur in the First Division and not signed the players they did could they possibly be in a better position off the field than they are now(not implying they are in an awful position off the field just that they might be in a better one). How much has Gannon spent on wages over the last 3 years? Surely enough to have put serious money into facilities or a new ground. Fair enough they might be still in the First Division with no FAI Cup but it could help insure they would be around for a long time with a good base.

Would it not have been better to build and progress rather than shoot up the league and now risk going in the opposite direction. Why do Irish clubs continue to want success immediately when it never works out?

Buckley has been praised for what he has done at Fingal but surely with the money he has spent most decent LOI managers would have done a similar job to him.

There is way too much switching an swapping in our league between divisions for one reason or another.

Next years first division and what teams have won over the last 10 or so years:

Cork City (Premier Champions 2005)
Shelbourne (Premier Champions 1999-2000, 2001-2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, FAI Cup 2000)
Drogheda United (Premier Champions 2007, FAI Cup 2005)
Longford Town (FAI Cup 2003, 2004)

Add into that Derry City last season (FAI Cup 2002, 2006)


Its shocking reading. A big bulk of trophys over the last 10 years have been won by teams now in the first division. How other clubs still haven't noticed this and seem to want instant success is beyond me.

[peadar1987]

Why do Irish clubs continue to want success immediately when it never works out?


Because Irish fans expect every club to immediately be like their sainted Manchester U-****ing-nited, and won't even consider getting off their holes to support them if they're not.

[drummerboy]

After the way Buckley and Fingal shafted my local club to get the use of Morton Stadium, I will not shed any tears if they go belly up. Drums spent 15 years playing there and had no problem sharing the facility, like they did with Shamrock Rovers and Dublin City in the past. But SF were having none of it and insisted Fingal Co Co dump the club out.

[total hoofball]

You have a good point there. If Fingal had started out amateur in the First Division and not signed the players they did could they possibly be in a better position off the field than they are now(not implying they are in an awful position off the field just that they might be in a better one).
That was how Sporting Fingal were meant to start off. The initital plan from Fingal County Council was to have a team of local players participate in the A Championship and gradually grow the club, squad and facilities as they progressed up the ranks. The problem started when Buckley sold the idea to the league of ireland football illiterates on the Council that if they invested a load of cash in the Sporting Fingal project that the club could become just like Rosenborg, who had similar local demographics and community involvement. Buckley, John O'Brien and a delegation from the Council even went to Norway on a junket to sell the Rosenborg vision to the Council. Idea was sold and then they got Gannon/Anglo Irish Bank and Keelings to fund them. Instead of gathering up a squad of local players as initially planned they then offered a number of established LOI players such as Steve Williams and Davy Byrne big bucks to play in the A Championship and the spending just excellerated from there onwards.


How much has Gannon spent on wages over the last 3 years? Surely enough to have put serious money into facilities or a new ground. Fair enough they might be still in the First Division with no FAI Cup but it could help insure they would be around for a long time with a good base.Gannon has to have put in at least 2 million into Fingal by now. http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/meeting_doc.aspx?id=31986 - According to this from March 2008 Fingal's sponsorship package was 800k per season for 5 years. In 2008 Keelings sponsorship was 250k, Gannon presumably making up the shortfall of around 500k. Gannon's investment increased to 750k last season and was certainly the same this year.

[BonnieShels]

Do you have know something we don't etc.

I probably do but I feel that jumping to conclusions and conjecture are way more important in this thread. Hard financial facts have no place here
I asked pages ago did the Fingal fans have any information re the budgets next season and they "ganged up" on me trying to defend their club. Still no more the wiser despite since then a pantomime of "I know something you don't know" has gone on.

Reading total hoofball's post and looking at that council reply makes me shudder.
What always galled me about this whole project it was the complete lack of a need for the club. Bohs have long considered the move to the suburbs (eg. Blanchardstown or up to Harristown) which would have put them within the Fungal's area and they could have replicated the sort of structure that Shams have in Tallaght. And then there's ourselves as well so it's not as if North Dublin needed a club or had two clubs that could've become the community beacons that Fingal CoCo so badly wanted. I know the debt of the 2 clubs may have been a problem but that could have been dealt with I'm sure.
I think it's their existence and how they came into being that really rubs a lot of people up the wrong way

[Lamper.sffc]

Some really good and valid points there from posters tbh. I was starting to think myself about how some of the money could have been put into facilities for the club rather than spending it on higher wages (hindsight is a wonderful thing).

Dont get me wrong iv loved what has happened over the last 3 years, FAI Cup, Promotion and getting in the various players but if it means the club will get into difficulty then it aint worth it. I was always willing to watch the club in the A-championship and I was just excited to have a club that represented our region of Dublin. I then heard we would have decent backing and thought great we can start to compete straight away. Which is fine in my eyes because all fans want their team to be successfull but not at any cost.

I think the club (Liam Buckley) spent big on players because they assumed the faclilities would be put in place regardless and they never seen the recession coming. Now when it was more and more obvious that money would have been tight, then cut backs could and possible should have been made in order to use the money elsewhere. I dont know where because maybe they where not allowed to do anything with the money in Lusk. I dont know.

Originally the idea being Stadium built by Fingal CC and Team financed by Gannon/Keelings/Anglo. The recession has put a major dent in the idea unfortunately but has the club responded sensibly to the change in the economy? Im not sure yet and time will tell.

As I said Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I still think the club can continue and return to what the original idea was if needs be and I for one will still be the first in line for my season ticket.

[pineapple stu]

As I said Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
It's not hindsight if the point was being made ages ago.

[Lamper.sffc]

I probably do but I feel that jumping to conclusions and conjecture are way more important in this thread. Hard financial facts have no place here
I asked pages ago did the Fingal fans have any information re the budgets next season and they "ganged up" on me trying to defend their club. Still no more the wiser despite since then a pantomime of "I know something you don't know" has gone on.

Reading total hoofball's post and looking at that council reply makes me shudder.
What always galled me about this whole project it was the complete lack of a need for the club. Bohs have long considered the move to the suburbs (eg. Blanchardstown or up to Harristown) which would have put them within the Fungal's area and they could have replicated the sort of structure that Shams have in Tallaght. And then there's ourselves as well so it's not as if North Dublin needed a club or had two clubs that could've become the community beacons that Fingal CoCo so badly wanted. I know the debt of the 2 clubs may have been a problem but that could have been dealt with I'm sure.
I think it's their existence and how they came into being that really rubs a lot of people up the wrong way

Bonnie first off nobody ganged up on you so relax the histrionics. Secondly, you where told by me that we didnt know about the finances so how could we answer. Thirdly stop using what one poster said to tar all. The lep is just having a laugh. I dont blame him for not wanting to repeat the same arguments over and over, so he chooses to joke


And you will fogive me if I dont take what you are saying as anything more than sour grapes especially when trying to make a point and you cant help but say fungal. It detracts from your argument and I one tune out when the bitterness has entered the argument. There is a need for my club, we have a small following but that doesnt matter because the club matters to everysingle one of our supporters. As long as there are fans going to games then the club matters.

[Lamper.sffc]

It's not hindsight if the point was being made ages ago.

Its my hindsight. Im trying to be as honest as I can about what is going on, thats all.

Iv never said that what fingal where doing would definitely work. I always said lets just wait and see and Im still of that opinion.

[White Horse]

Dont get me wrong iv loved what has happened over the last 3 years, FAI Cup, Promotion and getting in the various players but if it means the club will get into difficulty then it aint worth it. I was always willing to watch the club in the A-championship and I was just excited to have a club that represented our region of Dublin. I then heard we would have decent backing and thought great we can start to compete straight away. Which is fine in my eyes because all fans want their team to be successfull but not at any cost.

I still think the club can continue and return to what the original idea was if needs be and I for one will still be the first in line for my season ticket.

I admire the love and enthusiasm you have for your club.

However, it will be very difficult to engender public enthusiasm for Sporting Fingal if you have to start competing as an amateur club in the A championship.

[Jofspring]

I admire the love and enthusiasm you have for your club.

However, it will be very difficult to engender public enthusiasm for Sporting Fingal if you have to start competing as an amateur club in the A championship.

I just think their main problem will be they have set the bar too high for themselves. There is already a lot of expectation from them after what they have achieved so far. If that success is gone. So are at least 50% of the fans.

[Lamper.sffc]

I admire the love and enthusiasm you have for your club.

However, it will be very difficult to engender public enthusiasm for Sporting Fingal if you have to start competing as an amateur club in the A championship.

We will see if this happens but I agree. There wouldnt be much support to begin with and it may take years for it to work but isnt that what the plan was to begin with and I have and never did have a problem with that. Organic growth, this is what has always been said our club should have done and I hope we can.

[BonnieShels]

Bonnie first off nobody ganged up on you so relax the histrionics. Secondly, you where told by me that we didnt know about the finances so how could we answer. Thirdly stop using what one poster said to tar all. The lep is just having a laugh. I dont blame him for not wanting to repeat the same arguments over and over, so he chooses to joke


And you will fogive me if I dont take what you are saying as anything more than sour grapes especially when trying to make a point and you cant help but say fungal. It detracts from your argument and I one tune out when the bitterness has entered the argument. There is a need for my club, we have a small following but that doesnt matter because the club matters to everysingle one of our supporters. As long as there are fans going to games then the club matters.

And to think I just thanked you. :P
That Fungal was a typo (And I was referring to the council and not the club, "i" is very close to "u" you know and I can tell you the amount of "teh"'s that were in the post originally it's not surprising that I missed that). Hilarious though it was when you think of it.
The Council itself is a decrepit little crony shop that has a lot of skeletons dying to burst forth. Anyway I'm not trying to be bitter here so stop looking for the saucers of milk in everything I write.
As I said at the end of that post it's how the club has achieved what it has rather than what has been achieved that has a lot of people worried and concerned that it will be another black stain on the LOI. Come on I'm a Shels fan... I've got that tshirt! I will stop from now lumping you and the Lep together. He really does grind my gears somewhat.

[Lamper.sffc]

I just think their main problem will be they have set the bar too high for themselves. There is already a lot of expectation from them after what they have achieved so far. If that success is gone. So are at least 50% of the fans.

I dont know about that. We will lose a lot but I think we may get back others. We lost a lot of supporters after the big names started coming in. I think a lot of the original guys stopped going because they where ****ed off at the club ditching a lot of the first years team and also not sticking to the policy of using Fingal players. I think a certain amount of people seen these guys as mercenaries and lost interest in the club. In year one it seemed a lot of people where really interested in the idea of fingal players for a fingal team. There was a good little away support starting to build up(for us in div 1) and the singing section where quite loud for a small fan base. Year two things seemed to change and as the year went on the support and noise in the ground lessened. This happened in the 3rd year as well and its only the last ten or so games that we managed to get back to bringing more supporters to away games and making more noise again at morton.

To me it seemed like the club and fans had lost their way a little but we really where starting to get things going again. Its a good core group of lads and from this I think we can grow the support. It may be blind optimism on my part but I refuse to think any other way. I cant

[Lamper.sffc]

And to think I just thanked you. :P
That Fungal was a typo (And I was referring to the council and not the club, "i" is very close to "u" you know and I can tell you the amount of "teh"'s that were in the post originally it's not surprising that I missed that). Hilarious though it was when you think of it.
The Council itself is a decrepit little crony shop that has a lot of skeletons dying to burst forth. Anyway I'm not trying to be bitter here so stop looking for the saucers of milk in everything I write.
As I said at the end of that post it's how the club has achieved what it has rather than what has been achieved that has a lot of people worried and concerned that it will be another black stain on the LOI. Come on I'm a Shels fan... I've got that tshirt! I will stop from now lumping you and the Lep together. He really does grind my gears somewhat.

So I wouldnt find the term and its like in any of your other posts? If its used as a bit of slagging or banter then fine but when its used when someone is trying to make a point about the club then I tune out. It devalues the point they where trying to make in my mind. Also if I was looking for saucers of milk and what not, it was only because you where holding the bottle.
I take exception to people saying we shouldnt exist. I personally think we should and so do other fans of the club and you devalue us when you say we shouldnt. Lastly if you are worried about us being another black stain on the league why are you wanting us to go under surely you would hope we dont.

I have no problem with you Bonnie and some of what you post. I do have a bit of a problem with the tone sometimes and some of the content in the posts but hey we all have our opinions. All the best for next season and cheers for the thank you it just might be the first time a Shells:) supporter gave me a thanks ;)

[legendz]

You're right to take exception to it as well. Fingal rightly exist. They've gone down a good and bad path. They've enjoyed good success but at what cost? It's like everything else that's been caught up in a boom and then recession.
I think Fingal will find their feet but as I've touched on, it's likely they will suffer a drop. With a possible restructuring of the league, it's hard to place where ye might find ye're level for a while. I would think in and around where Cork are at the moment and that's taking into account the hardcore support they have as mentioned by someone before.

[PartySaint]

I just really hate the Morton Stadium thats why I don't like Fingal

[Lamper.sffc]

I just really hate the Morton Stadium thats why I don't like Fingal

I think it safe to say that not many SF fans like morton either and I would dislike it more if I was an away fan. The seating stand itself if fine and kept clean and in good nick but its too far away from the pitch. Its one of the problems with trying to create an atmosphere which in turn makes match days better, which in turn helps to keep people coming to games.
I personally like Richmond park myself. Nice tidy stand right on top of the pitch and would love it if one day we could have something similar. Lets not kid myself, Id love it if we even had something like Brays tempory stand and a pitch.

[BonnieShels]

So I wouldnt find the term and its like in any of your other posts? If its used as a bit of slagging or banter then fine but when its used when someone is trying to make a point about the club then I tune out. It devalues the point they where trying to make in my mind. Also if I was looking for saucers of milk and what not, it was only because you where holding the bottle.
I take exception to people saying we shouldnt exist. I personally think we should and so do other fans of the club and you devalue us when you say we shouldnt. Lastly if you are worried about us being another black stain on the league why are you wanting us to go under surely you would hope we dont.

I have no problem with you Bonnie and some of what you post. I do have a bit of a problem with the tone sometimes and some of the content in the posts but hey we all have our opinions. All the best for next season and cheers for the thank you it just might be the first time a Shells:) supporter gave me a thanks ;)

Well the post warranted a thanks because it was laced with realism which I'm all for.
Previous posts by me regarding SF have indeed been laced with sour grapes, hatred and bitterness and I attempted to being balanced with what I posted earlier today. Call it turning over a new leaf. And as you quite rightly point out its that mercenary streak that seems to have cropped up that has alienated your fans and peed me and a lot of others off.
Also can I ask one thing of ya, its Shels. ;)

[Roo69]

I think it safe to say that not many SF fans like morton either and I would dislike it more if I was an away fan. The seating stand itself if fine and kept clean and in good nick but its too far away from the pitch. Its one of the problems with trying to create an atmosphere which in turn makes match days better, which in turn helps to keep people coming to games.
I personally like Richmond park myself. Nice tidy stand right on top of the pitch and would love it if one day we could have something similar. Lets not kid myself, Id love it if we even had something like Brays tempory stand and a pitch.

Semi Permanent :D

[Buile Shuibhne]

Its gone over your head hasnt it :)

Hot air tends to do so - it's a natural phenomenon.

[The Lep]

I noticed you was a fan of hot air.

[OneForTheFuture]

I just think their main problem will be they have set the bar too high for themselves. There is already a lot of expectation from them after what they have achieved so far. If that success is gone So are at least 50% of the fans.

That only leaves Lamper so :D

[Lamper.sffc]

That only leaves Lamper so :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZg3-Y1QIc4

:p

[Schumi]

Semi Permanent :D

We'll see after this storm is over!

[peadar1987]

We'll see after this storm is over!

If half the stand is still there, it still counts as semi permanent!

[BonnieShels]

I think we can lock this thread for now. Looks like bohs will beat them to it.

[Mr A]

Maybe the clubs should merge.

[BonnieShels]

Uh oh... you've gone and done it dawg...

[Dave_SRFC]

Whats the story with your man Kellegher who owns St Pats, Is he the sole owner of the club and does he own the ground? If so and he's broke is it possible he could sell richmond to pay back debts? Don't know the ins and outs of it...Genuine question and not trying to **** stir...

[Dodge]

He owns the club, club owns the ground.

He's not that broke. He's lprobably lost half a billion or something but he's still doing OK (even with the Chicago Spire failing)

Selling pats/richmond wouldn't get him much anyway