U21 Vs Armenia

[Paddy Garcia]

Shane Redmond (Darlington); Seamus Coleman (Everton), Callum Morris (Newcastle United), Darren Dennehy (Gillingham), Cian Hughton (Lincoln City); David Meyler (Sunderland), Owen Garvan (Ipswich Town), Conor Clifford (Chelsea); Alan Judge (Plymouth Argyle), Cillian Sheridan (St. Johnstone), Sean Scannell (Crystal Palace)

Any streams for the game ?

[TheBoss]

Beyond a Joke at this stage:

0-1
http://www.uefa.com/under21/matches/season=2011/live/day=30/session=1/match=2000078/MatchCenterLight/index.html

[Razors left peg]

ffs 2 nil down now

[Paddy Garcia]

Thanks Boss, jeez - usual story so far!!

[TheBoss]

You think Givens would realise by now, that 4-3-3 is not working.

[Razors left peg]

You think Givens would realise by now, that 4-3-3 is not working.

u would think by now John Delaney would realise Don Givens isnt working

[Hibs4Ever]

Absolutely disgraceful. We'll be ranked among Europes bottom seeds by the end of this campaign

[Paddy Garcia]

lol - You can be in power too long you know!

[greendeiseboy]

Think it's time to make our voices heard on this debacle.

[Paddy Garcia]

Dixon on - best of luck lad.

[Yard of Pace]

Think it's time to make our voices heard on this debacle.

Absolutely. Givens can say his job is about bringing players through but it's surely not helpful to anyone to be losing every game like this.
I'm finding it really depressing and I'm not even on the team. You'd imagine the young lads must be fairly fed up at this stage.

[Predator]

From the minutes, we seem to give away a lot of fouls. Garvan seems to be the main offender. I wonder how many of those lads playing tonight are ready to make the step up to senior level?

[Mayo Red]

Clearly somebody else should be given the task of overseeing and developing the players at this level. Even allowing for the nature of players coming and going at U-21 our progress under Givens over the last few years has largely been shambolic, and not just from a results point of view either. If he was in charge of the senior team he'd have gotten the bullet long ago!

[Razors left peg]

bring back Maurice Setters

[Mayo Red]

bring back Maurice Setters

Jesus, Maurice Pratt would even be better than Givens at this stage!!:eek:

[Predator]

2-1, Daly, 10 minutes left.

[Mayo Red]

2-1, Daly, 10 minutes left.

Seems to be real end to end stuff at the moment!

[Mayo Red]

Same old story unfortunately!:(

[carloz]

One of the few times I have ever wished an Irish team not to score in the last 5 minutes. I think losing this match can only be for the greater good of finally getting rid of the disease that is Don Givens. Our under 21s have suffered enough under him and it is time for him to simply **** off

[Paddy Garcia]

One of the few times I have ever wished an Irish team not to score in the last 5 minutes. I think losing this match can only be for the greater good of finally getting rid of the disease that is Don Givens. Our under 21s have suffered enough under him and it is time for him to simply **** off

I think he is immune - regardless of results.

[carloz]

I think he is immune - regardless of results.

You would think there would have to be a level to that immunity though. Being adrift in a group containing the powerhouses of Armenia, Estonia and Georgia really is humiliating. He must have one hell of a secret on Delaney

[rambler14]

GIVENS OUT!

It's getting beyond a joke at this point. It's a disgrace to the country that he still in charge!:mad:

[Maroon 7]

What is Givens' record now with the U-21's? It must be well beyond just being bad into being utterly appalling.

It's a complete joke that he is allowed to continue. Even the Welsh and Scots have got their act together at U-21 level and are actually getting some decent results.

[CarrickFan]

In any other job in world football at any level he would be sacked...he obviously hasnt got what it takes to coach at this level.

[rambler14]

2 years and 4 months since he won a competitive game

[cestlavie]

Maybe its in his contract that if he wons a game he gets the sack!

[Paddy Garcia]

2 years and 4 months since he won a competitive game

Not so bad then.

[TrapAPony]

Give Heighway the job!!!!!!

[Predator]

Shane Redmond (Darlington); Seamus Coleman (Everton), Callum Morris (Newcastle United), Darren Dennehy (Gillingham), Cian Hughton (Lincoln City); Conor Clifford (Chelsea), Owen Garvan (Ipswich Town), David Meyler (Sunderland); Alan Judge (Plymouth Argyle), Cillian Sheridan (St. Johnstone), Sean Scannell (Crystal Palace).
Substitutes: James McKeown (Peterborough United), Kevin Long (Burnley), Olanrewaju Oyebanjo (Histon), Seamus Conneely (Galway United), Scott Davies (Reading), Ian Daly (Aris Thessaloniki), Terry Dixon (West Ham United).


Who out of that group would be ready to step up to the senior team, given that we're looking for as many options as possible?

[yapster]

As I've said before coaching in all levels of Irish fooball must be put in foreign hands. Like the first team it takes a foreign coach like Charlton & McCarthy to get some degree of success abeit it just means qualifing for touraments, Trap was unlucky at the last hurdle this time but he will come up with the goods in this campaign I think. There is plenty young talent in Ireland but it's not being nurtured or coached properly sadly.

[Razors left peg]

I would expect Coleman, Clifford, Garvan,Meyler, Scannell, Dixon and maybe Daly to get full caps.... thats not a bad bunch of players

[EastTerracer]

Who out of that group would be ready to step up to the senior team, given that we're looking for as many options as possible?

Honestly, based on tonight's performance I woudn't say that any of them are ready for the step-up to senior level. In some cases (e.g. Coleman, Garvan, Scannell) we know they are capable of much better so maybe we can put it down to just a bad night but overall the standard was pretty poor and way too many passes went astray. Terry Dixon showed a couple of nice touches during his 30 minutes or so but he is clearly a long way from being fit.

[passinginterest]

I was over at the game and I think Ireland would best be described as rudderless, there was no game plan, there was no direction from the sideline. The team has some very good players, Conor Clifford was a class apart from everyone else on the pitch. Defensively the team was all over the place, the keeper is average at best, both centre halves were error prone, Coleman was disappointing again (2nd time he's been poor when I've seen under 21's in Tallaght, still probably most promising of back 4), Cian Houghton is not even professional football quality, never mind international class, every time the ball was played to him he was hesitant and made poor decisions or lost possession. The midfield 3 had lots of ability and wanted the ball, I expected more from Garvan as he was the most experienced but he was overshadowed by Clifford, Meyler was decent too but had to make way for switch to 4-4-2 in second half. Judge was pretty effective on his wing Scannel was poor, looks to have lost his pace and doesn't have much else to offer, Sheridan still looks like he could be very good but he was probably too isolated. Dixon didn't do a lot when he came on, but it was great to just see the lad on a football pich, had one lovely turn that led to a chance. Daly looked OK, scored the goal and had a couple of other chances he might have done more with. Armenia well deserved the win, I'd put much I've the issues with the Irish performance down to lack of coaching, they just didn't seem to have any set plan or structure to their play.

[Predator]

As I've said before coaching in all levels of Irish fooball must be put in foreign hands.
Brian Kerr is the living proof that that's nonsense. I don't agree with the attitude that somehow Irish people aren't inherently good enough to coach.
There is plenty young talent in Ireland but it's not being nurtured or coached properly sadly.This I agree with, but it doesn't follow that we need to get in foreigners to do our own job.



Honestly, based on tonight's performance I woudn't say that any of them are ready for the step-up to senior level. In some cases (e.g. Coleman, Garvan, Scannell) we know they are capable of much better so maybe we can put it down to just a bad night but overall the standard was pretty poor and way too many passes went astray. Terry Dixon showed a couple of nice touches during his 30 minutes or so but he is clearly a long way from being fit.
It seems we can base our judgements on the performances of the entire campaign. There have been some very poor results and as much as people love to blame managers, they are never solely to blame - the players must be lacking in something and must accept responsibility for their performances. They've lost 4-1 and 2-1 to Armenia, 3-0 to Turkey and have drawn 1-1 with Estonia, Georgia and Switzerland.

[yapster]

Garvan is a worry as he does have the talent he doesn't seem to assert himself in games even against the likes of Armenia & co. For his own careers sake he needs to step up to the plate more often.

[yapster]

Brian Kerr is the living proof that that's nonsense. I don't agree with the attitude that somehow Irish people aren't inherently good enough to coach.This I agree with, but it doesn't follow that we need to get in foreigners to do our own job.



It seems we can base our judgements on the performances of the entire campaign. There have been some very poor results and as much as people love to blame managers, they are never solely to blame - the players must be lacking in something and must accept responsibility for their performances. They've lost 4-1 and 2-1 to Armenia, 3-0 to Turkey and have drawn 1-1 with Estonia, Georgia and Switzerland.


Yuor right Brian Kerr did a good job with the kids one time but he was brutal with the first team, no tactics and no motivational skills with players. Foreign coaches have to be brought in to give some fresh ideas and tactical know how. Irish people are good enough to coach but sadly can't seem to coach young Irish talent it seems.

[elroy]

Enough is enough lads, was hoping to get to this game tonight, expecting an Irish win. Didnt manage to make it but frankly am horrified by the result. Yes we can give the usual excuses, its a young team, the best players are moved up to the senior squad, a once off etc etc but not this time, the team are a joke at this stage and it is not good for their development. Givens must go. Stan would even do a better job at this stage.

I normally wouldnt advocate this sort of thing, but perhaps a petition should be put together to be presented to the FAI. This is no way for an underage team of a proud footballing nation to be performing. We are consistent, consistently poor. Seriously lack of direction, purpose and coaching, a change is a must and NOW

[jw_tfc]

Cian Houghton is not even professional football quality, never mind international class, every time the ball was played to him he was hesitant and made poor decisions or lost possession. Scannel was poor, looks to have lost his pace and doesn't have much else to offer

Spot on... Houghton is a joker, he is awful, possibly the worst player I've witnessed at International Level at any age group on any team, shocking bad... He better hope Chris Sutton doesn't get to see a video of the game...
Scannel is as bad, never once did he jump to compete for a header.. no desire to win the ball back... How he lasted that long on the pitch is beyond me..
Givens should be taken out of that job... he has nothing to offer at this stage... its highly disturbing that he will continue on with that job... there is no progress.. well maybe there is, we only conceded 2 against them this time!

[tetsujin1979]

not long home
Team was setup badly, none of the midfield 3 stayed in the holding position, and time and again Armenia exploited the space.
Morris was at fault for the opening goal, kept backing off and backing off, giving the striker space to run into before shooting. Second goal was direct from a free kick, nothing the keeper could do about it.
Garvan and Clifford both had good touches in midfield, Sheridan tried hard alone up front. Scannell and Judge swapped wings, and did little else.
Hughton was poor in possession.
If Moyes had seen Coleman at this game, he never would have signed the fullback, he looked like a pub footballer at times.

Goal only came when Armenia were down to ten men, forced in after a goalmouth scramble.

Couldn't believe what I was seeing at times.

[drummerboy]

The only way Givens will be removed from that post will be to replace Brady. Now that would be a absolute tragedy for Irish football. But I do agree the chap has to be got rid of immediately.

[theworm2345]

Lets try reverse psychology

GIVENS IN

[TheBoss]

It has certainly taken off ;)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=search&gid=178956858654

[drummerboy]

Just listened to an interview with Givens after the game last night on RTE radio. When the interviewer asked him “Was he considering his position?” Given became extremely tetchy and was adamant that he wouldn't be moved by journos with agendas. He also trotted out his usual mantra “He was there, not to win games, but to develop players”. He also blamed the players as par for course. Somethings never change. The seeds of doubt must surely have been sown in the mind of that moran, Delaney. Surely … well … surely

[Mayo Red]

Give Heighway the job!!!!!!

That's not actually a bad idea at all given his experience as Liverpool Academy Director in the past. A change is definitely required though.

[Deckydee]

Its so sad. How is he sill in the job?

[bennocelt]

As I've said before coaching in all levels of Irish fooball must be put in foreign hands. Like the first team it takes a foreign coach like Charlton & McCarthy to get some degree of success abeit it just means qualifing for touraments, Trap was unlucky at the last hurdle this time but he will come up with the goods in this campaign I think. There is plenty young talent in Ireland but it's not being nurtured or coached properly sadly.


As far as I remember McCarthy did play for this country:confused::rolleyes:

[ifk101]

Very disappointing result but expected eventhough Armenia were missing the guy that scored a hat-trick in the away game.

Givens states player development is his job brief - the only development he is instilling in our players is a losing mentality. If he is all about player development, why are the U21 not playing with the same formation and tactics as the seniors? There has to be a consistency between the seniors and U21s if the U21 manager's job brief is player development. As it is, Givens works independently. Player development is what he says it is.

The job needs to be given to somebody that has ambition to become our senior manager. The job brief has to become clearly defined. As it, fielding an U21 team under Don Givens is doing more harm than good, to the extent that if he is going to continue in charge, we'd be better off not fielding a team.

[tetsujin1979]

had time to think a bit more about the game.

Sheridan had the bulk of the Irish chances, but most were headers. I'd guess the plan was "he's taller than their defence, lump the ball in his general direction". Unfortunately, while taller than the players around him, he still doesn't have the strength to play as a solitary striker and lost out because of the numbers around him. A few times he chased balls out to the corners, but since he was the only striker, there was noone to play the ball to in the middle. Late in the second half he could have won a penalty when sandwiched by two defenders, but the ref indicated a corner.
The biggest problem, as it appeared to me anyway, was the shape of the side was completely wrong. We were playing a 4-5-1 moving to 4-3-3 when attacking. However, none of the midfield 3 were linking up with the defence (think Essien or Makelele) so the back 4 was being left completely isolated time and again. The two wingers, Scannell and Judge, were leaving their full backs with no option to pass to. A few times, Cian Hughton and Scannell did link up well, but Hughton had to come to the half way line with the ball to come within passing distance of Scannell, and this meant the space in the now empty full back slot was prime for exploiting by the opposition.
Armenia seemed to be playing 3-4-1-2 (again this is how it looked to me, I could be wrong) with the "1" floating back to midfield when defending, and linking up with the strikers when attacking. So our central midfield 3 were being crowded out when we were in possession, and the 4 man defence was facing three attacking players when defending. When we did make it to the final third of the pitch, their 4 midfielders were dropping back to help out defensively, limiting the passing options for the Irish players.
Ireland's best chance came from a snap shot from Garvan (captain on the night) after their keeper cleared a shot to the Ipswich midfielder. Shortly afterwards, Armenia took the lead. The goal came about with three of their players around our box. The centre half (think it was Newcastle's Callum Morris) didn't know whether to close down the player in possession, or block a pass to his teammates, so he kept backing off, allowing him more time and space to pick his shot. Redmond in goals was possibly unsighted for the shot, it was at the other end of the ground to me so I couldn't really tell. The second goal came from a direct free kick, despite having 4 players in the wall, the ball still found its way into the far corner of the net.
Ian Daly came on at half time, and this seemed to settle the side as the Irish did play some good football, but this had no end product. Terry Dixon made a welcome return to Irish football with about a half hour to go, according to a report on NewsTalk, West Ham ordered that he only play 30 minutes. While he did have some good touches with the ball at his feet, it's clear he still has some way to go to return to full fitness. He really did play at a walking pace and looks to be carrying some extra weight. There are reports that he will be moving to Colorado Rapids for a summer loan, and I really do hope he does well in the MLS. Armenia were reduced to 10 men with 15 minutes remaining, the referee showed a yellow for time wasting with a corner, and when he protested about the booking, the referee booked him again and sent him off. Even with 10 men, the Armenians still possessed a threat, and credit has to go to Redmond for keeping the scoreline at 2-0. The Irish goal came following a goal mouth scramble. Moving into the Armenian half, Dixon moved the ball in the corner, and crossed into the box. Substitute Daly finally shot home with the Armenian keeper on the deck following an earlier save.
Everton's Coleman had possibly the best chance to equalise when a loose ball in the box fell to him, however his shot cleared the far post. To be honest, it was the only decent play of the game by the full back, he looked off the pace most of the time, and his first touch deserted him. At one point he tried to kill the ball with his instep, only for it to rebound off his standing leg and out for a throw.
The one positive was the performance of Chelsea's Conor Clifford in midfield. Full of energy, running and tackling, he looks a definite talent.
Armenia weren't faster, more talented, or better disciplined than the Irish, they were just better organised to take advantage of their talents. Givens out.

[Predator]

Thanks for the report tets. Surprised to hear that Coleman had a bad game. Hopefully it's a one off, because we'd like to see him stepping up soon.

[elroy]

Any person who has followed Ireland over the last few years will be able to point out how a decent manager can make a huge difference even with a limited bunch of players (Stan V Trap). I think the same applies here, the U21s are by no means a poor squad, the formation, tactics and coaching of them seems to be well short of the mark. Change is needed and now. We need these young lads developing, but developing confidence as well, with the record they have their confidence playing for Ireland must be rock bottom.