Lack of initiative shown by League

[joeSoap]

I work in advertising and therefore are probably more aware of where adverts are placed than others might be. I find it quite ironic that this site now boasts a rather large noticeable advert from Allianz advertsising its forthcoming sponsorship of its league campaigns. I wonder if the FAI were approached to do something similar for the league? And if so, what its response was.

This is in no way a criticism of the site for getting advertising revenue from the GAA, I applaud it. But surely this sends a message to the LOI and surely tells them that they need to be more proactive, especially now in times of dwindling attendances.:ball:

[weecountyman]

joeSoap, it all comes from how difficult the situation is for a governing body to try a be all things to all men. It's been mentioned on other threads how P1 could do this and that, or even that a management company be established to oversee the running of the leagues. A specialist CEO brought in and a top notch operations team running it. They'd be able to create events, which is what Irish people are now into. No longer to sit in a crumbling cowshed, but to have "entertainment" served up in comfortable surrounds. If this happens then the LOI will grow, but as it stands the LOI/FAI are non-staffed to make it happen.

[joeSoap]

joeSoap, it all comes from how difficult the situation is for a governing body to try a be all things to all men. It's been mentioned on other threads how P1 could do this and that, or even that a management company be established to oversee the running of the leagues. A specialist CEO brought in and a top notch operations team running it. They'd be able to create events, which is what Irish people are now into. No longer to sit in a crumbling cowshed, but to have "entertainment" served up in comfortable surrounds. If this happens then the LOI will grow, but as it stands the LOI/FAI are non-staffed to make it happen.
I'm not talking about a massive PR operation here. I'm talking about a small outlay of advertising revenue to help generate attendance-something that Allianz see fit to do for their GAA sponsorship. It's all about getting the message out there, and it looks like the FAI couldn't be arsed doing it for the LOI.

[weecountyman]

I'm not talking about a massive PR operation here. I'm talking about a small outlay of advertising revenue to help generate attendance-something that Allianz see fit to do for their GAA sponsorship. It's all about getting the message out there, and it looks like the FAI couldn't be arsed doing it for the LOI.

I understand what you're saying, but the FAI would have to get in an outside agency for this and as a result costs would rise. In order to get bang for buck they'd have to put on a fullscale PR campaign, and it would pay off. I wonder if the FAI dedicated 20% of each International gate to the development of a proper league pyramid would it make any difference.

[dahamsta]

What do they need an agency for? Those ads are delivered via AdWords (https://adwords.google.com), which a monkey could run. Or they could contact me and run a campaign directly; I'd even be willing to give them the run of the site for a limited period, for a fair price. The cost would be a fraction of newspaper or TV reporting, either way.

I don't understand why they've never been in touch. They've plenty of monkeys like*.

adam

* Ah. That might explain it.

[John83]

Last year, Derry went boom, Kildare aren't coming back any time soon, Cork are still tottering on the brink, and it's no secret that the rest of the clubs aren't exactly triple-A rated on the stock market. Getting the clubs to the point where the league's media coverage isn't all about unpaid wages and winding up orders is a far higher priority than advertising.

[Enruoblehs]

How many people on this site are not aware of everything that the FAI would be advertising?

[dong]

I'm not talking about a massive PR operation here. I'm talking about a small outlay of advertising revenue to help generate attendance-something that Allianz see fit to do for their GAA sponsorship. It's all about getting the message out there, and it looks like the FAI couldn't be arsed doing it for the LOI.

That pretty much sums it up I think.

[Longfordian]

What do they need an agency for? Those ads are delivered via AdWords (https://adwords.google.com), which a monkey could run. Or they could contact me and run a campaign directly; I'd even be willing to give them the run of the site for a limited period, for a fair price. The cost would be a fraction of newspaper or TV reporting, either way.

I don't understand why they've never been in touch. They've plenty of monkeys like*.

adam

* Ah. That might explain it.

Strange alright. They spend enough time fretting about what's posted on here, you'd think they might want to use it to their advantage for once.

[dahamsta]

Actually I won't fault the FAI on that, they've never contacted me directly about the site and indirect requests have always been polite and non-demanding. Even the clubs aren't too bad about it, although they are snakey in that they generally send a lackey to do their dirty work. The players are the worst, particularly in the other leagues. Primadonnas. "Dey sed I are a bad player, and I are NOT!"

[Longfordian]

I know they do keep a close eye on it though and like to know who's who on here if possible. Suppose it's no great surprise.

[dcfcsteve]

I work in advertising and therefore are probably more aware of where adverts are placed than others might be. I find it quite ironic that this site now boasts a rather large noticeable advert from Allianz advertsising its forthcoming sponsorship of its league campaigns. I wonder if the FAI were approached to do something similar for the league? And if so, what its response was.

This is in no way a criticism of the site for getting advertising revenue from the GAA, I applaud it. But surely this sends a message to the LOI and surely tells them that they need to be more proactive, especially now in times of dwindling attendances.:ball:

As you work in advertising, you'll understand how advertising weights work. In order for the FAI to put together an ad campaign that made any sort of impact with the target age groups/audience, it would need to be purchasing decent weights across a range of media. All very expensive and too complicated for the FAI to do without paying both an ad agency to design and create and a media planner to place.

As Pineapple Stu stated, they've got more fundamental issues to worry about right now. The phrase 'you can't polish a turd' springs to mind.


What do they need an agency for? Those ads are delivered via AdWords (https://adwords.google.com), which a monkey could run. Or they could contact me and run a campaign directly; I'd even be willing to give them the run of the site for a limited period, for a fair price. The cost would be a fraction of newspaper or TV reporting, either way.

I don't understand why they've never been in touch. They've plenty of monkeys like*.

adam

* Ah. That might explain it.

Adam - monkeys aside, there would be zero point whatsoever in the FAI paying to promote the league on a site for hardcore league followers.

Everyone on here knows that the league exists, is broadly positive about it, know if they have a local club or not, knows when the season will have begun etc etc etc. As the saying goes, you don't preach to the converted. It woudl therefore be pointless for them to do anything here.

They could do advertising elsewhere, but as stated above it would need to be done properly as part of a planned campaign. And the FAI doesn't have the expertise or the priority, let alone the inclination, to do this.

[joeSoap]

As you work in advertising, you'll understand how advertising weights work. In order for the FAI to put together an ad campaign that made any sort of impact with the target age groups/audience, it would need to be purchasing decent weights across a range of media.All very expensive and too complicated for the FAI to do without paying both an ad agency to design and create and a media planner to place. Wrong. Foot.ie represents the core nucleus of die-hard League of Ireland football fans and you can rest assured that there are literally hundreds of people that visit the site that don't attend games but might if they are sold to them correctly. I don't know what Adams rates for advertising are, but I'm sure they are ultra-competitive. Sites like this are the prime area to target and you don't have to appoint an external agency or anything like that to know this. Plus production costs are a pittance. They simply have no excuse.

[Schumi]

The phrase 'you can't polish a turd' springs to mind.
You should watch more Mythbusters. :D

http://www.dorodango.com/images/red_dorodango.jpg

[dcfcsteve]

Wrong. Foot.ie represents the core nucleus of die-hard League of Ireland football fans and you can rest assured that there are literally hundreds of people that visit the site that don't attend games but might if they are sold to them correctly. I don't know what Adams rates for advertising are, but I'm sure they are ultra-competitive. Sites like this are the prime area to target and you don't have to appoint an external agency or anything like that to know this. Plus production costs are a pittance. They simply have no excuse.

Out of curiousity JS, what's your role in the world of advertising ?

[dahamsta]

I agree with joeSoap. Advertising is not just about blanket coverage, particularly in this case because all sorts of targetting oportunities exist. I can't argue about "polishing a turd" either, but lack of communication with the fanbase is a huge part of why the league has become a turd; both from the clubs and the FAI.

[razor]

I'd much prefer they put all their effort into shafting our delinquent chairman.

[Scrufil]

He's not a delinquent he's a 'Gillygaskon'!

[gael353]

Its not just advertising though, i think it helps if you have the national broadcaster offering unriveled support to you to enhance sponsors to join your party. as a main sponsor they can advertise your product anytime including during after and before rival sports programming. They can invent a series of programming which will support your sports body and offer it free while charging other sports for even a half hour of very limited coverage. such programminig can even have no mention of sport but the usage of ¨county¨ flags/banners/names can be used to support this endless propaganda that is the rte,gaa alliance

[Martinho II]

I know they do keep a close eye on it though and like to know who's who on here if possible. Suppose it's no great surprise.


yeah that has gone me in trouble loads of times thanks to these spies lurking..:rolleyes:

[Riddickcule]

Last year, Derry went boom, Kildare aren't coming back any time soon, Cork are still tottering on the brink, and it's no secret that the rest of the clubs aren't exactly triple-A rated on the stock market. Getting the clubs to the point where the league's media coverage isn't all about unpaid wages and winding up orders is a far higher priority than advertising.
Or, ending this farce once and for all and scrapping the whole thing and starting again. ;)

[dahamsta]

Out of interest I had a nose around, we have 7 @fai.ie email addresses, but I'd guess there's an awful lot of lurkers.


Or, ending this farce once and for all and scrapping the whole thing and starting again. ;)County and province based, like the GAA. Semi-pro. That and management changes in the FAI are all that are needed, the rest will follow, including management changes in the clubs. It really is as simple as that.

[Battery Rover]

Out of interest I had a nose around, we have 7 @fai.ie email addresses, but I'd guess there's an awful lot of lurkers.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PLjNWOu-Zn0/SY8nA7EYZiI/AAAAAAAAAEw/RzF3qehrYwo/s400/800px-simpsons_angry_mob.png

:D

[Longfordian]

Out of interest I had a nose around, we have 7 @fai.ie email addresses, but I'd guess there's an awful lot of lurkers.

County and province based, like the GAA. Semi-pro. That and management changes in the FAI are all that are needed, the rest will follow, including management changes in the clubs. It really is as simple as that.

Do any of the @fai.ie addresses have posts out of curiosity?. Don't want to know who they are (well I do but you can't tell me), just in general.

[eelmonster]

Adblock Plus add-on for Firefox = no ads :)

Ceci n'est pas une ad

[jebus]

Adam - monkeys aside, there would be zero point whatsoever in the FAI paying to promote the league on a site for hardcore league followers.

Everyone on here knows that the league exists, is broadly positive about it, know if they have a local club or not, knows when the season will have begun etc etc etc. As the saying goes, you don't preach to the converted. It woudl therefore be pointless for them to do anything here.

They could do advertising elsewhere, but as stated above it would need to be done properly as part of a planned campaign. And the FAI doesn't have the expertise or the priority, let alone the inclination, to do this.

There's a fair few who only frequent the Ireland forum because they don't support a LoI team

It's debatable whether an online advertisement would coax them to a local ground of course

[MariborKev]

Its not just advertising though, i think it helps if you have the national broadcaster offering unriveled support to you to enhance sponsors to join your party. as a main sponsor they can advertise your product anytime including during after and before rival sports programming.


Go and read the back story on the "unrivalled support":rolleyes:

[RoversHead]

The core nucleus of hardcore LOI football fans dont need the league sold to them,the vast majority of them dont use this forum either so the claim that foot.ie represents them is incorrect,it proovides a good forum for debate by the fraction of them that use it but as a vehicle to attract new fans to the league mmm dont think so,we need a product worth buying into first and Im not convinced that the FAI are the right people to develope that product,

[dahamsta]

Adblock Plus add-on for Firefox = no ads :)

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1274212&postcount=55

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1274242&postcount=57

[joeSoap]

The core nucleus of hardcore LOI football fans dont need the league sold to them,the vast majority of them dont use this forum either so the claim that foot.ie represents them is incorrect,it proovides a good forum for debate by the fraction of them that use it but as a vehicle to attract new fans to the league mmm dont think so,we need a product worth buying into first and Im not convinced that the FAI are the right people to develope that product, Absolute horsesh1t! The core nucleus may not need it sold to them, but they need incentive off the field of play to keep attending. It is statistically proven that advertising does work, and you can rest assured that the die-hard element is dwindling as a result of the economy and disillusionment with poorly run clubs. The junior section here comprises mainly people that don't attend LOI football for varying reasons, and that sector gets thousands of hits. Don't tell me that a measly few quid invested by the FAI wouldn't perhaps attract a few of them to a game. The product is there-it's called football. It's been worth buying into for the last 20 years commercially. We have a league of reasonable standard. More could be done to promote it. Whatever your opinions on the FAI, they run the show, so its a matter of making do with what you've got.

[dong]

Out of interest I had a nose around, we have 7 @fai.ie email addresses, but I'd guess there's an awful lot of lurkers.

County and province based, like the GAA. Semi-pro. That and management changes in the FAI are all that are needed, the rest will follow, including management changes in the clubs. It really is as simple as that.

Don't know about that. So you are saying we should have a team from, say, Leitrim?

[dahamsta]

If Leitrim wants to field one, yes. Why shouldn't they? I didn't say they all had to be winners.

[Dodge]

County and province based, like the GAA. Semi-pro. That and management changes in the FAI are all that are needed, the rest will follow, including management changes in the clubs. It really is as simple as that.

Stick to the non football threads adam.

County based :rolleyes:

When the GAA starts having to pay their players, and stops receiving government grants paying their players expenses, we can see how they run a professional league.

Until then, we can stick with the league that has lasted since 1921.

If Riddickule wants to get rid of a company that loses money (I think the economists would call it investing) on the league to step aside for a company that wants to make an imaginary profit out of it, let him live in make believe land with the rest of the spoofers who run Irish clubs.

As much as I love to stick the boot into the FAI, the simple fact is that clubs here need to sort their own problems out, and make their games worth going to. No point in spending money advertising games and bringing in punters if the grounds are kips and the standard of football is rubbish. Advertising might get them in for one game, but it won't keep them going.

Has the celtic tiger going boost taught you nothing? No more pie in the sky crap lads.

[Acornvilla]

i think it would be a smart move for the fai to invest in upgrading facilities for the clubs thou

[dahamsta]

Ever wonder if anyone actually finds your "antagonism" funny Dodge? Ever think people might be as interested in the business side of things as others are in the game itself? The Irish game'd be a damn sight better off if there were a few more...

I said semi-professional. I'm not ever sure I'd go that far, renumeration in the GAA works in it's own bizarre way: if you're any good, you'll be taken on as a sales rep somewhere, people will buy off you just because of who you are, and you'll have a nice comfortable living from the commission. I've worked alongside both hurling and football "stars" in this setup, they both had about the same lifestyle.

I have no problem with a government-subsidised league btw. Say what you want about the GAA, they run things a damn sight better than the FAI.

[dong]

If Leitrim wants to field one, yes. Why shouldn't they? I didn't say they all had to be winners.

Yea but come on. How would they possibly survive? For a start you have an established club twenty minutes up the N4 with a small population between the two counties. There is very little "soccer" in Leitrim (sorry Carrickfan if you're reading this!). The league has many problems, but the idea of abandoning the club set up as it stands is not the answer. Clubs with no tradition with little or no fanbase are one of the reasons the league is stagnating.

[dahamsta]

If Leitrim doesn't want to field one, they don't have to. I didn't think it was all that difficult a concept to understand.

[weecountyman]

A county based side would only work in an outpost like Letrim if there was an incentive - ie pyramid to work through. If there was a Connacht league that fed directly into a regional 2nd Division (supposing that there is a Premier, North and South 1st Division, and 3 regional 2nd Divisions- West, South and East) then a small club set up in Letrim can work their way up from a Connacht league and maybe one day push into the 1st Division. Smart investment, a solid fanbase and good community relations, then every county can be represented. The FAI would have to take a lead but the whole shebang would need to be run and operated on a commercial basis with venues fit for spectators and a fully fledged matchday experience guaranteed.

[dong]

If Leitrim doesn't want to field one, they don't have to. I didn't think it was all that difficult a concept to understand.

Fair enough. What about Dublin then? Which club would be picked to represent the capital in this proposed league? And what happens to the other clubs in Dublin in such a scenario?

[Mr A]

Fair enough. What about Dublin then?

Just burn it down to feck.

[eelmonster]

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1274212&postcount=55

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1274242&postcount=57

'pologies, Adam, I only had a few ales.

[dahamsta]

Fair enough. What about Dublin then? Which club would be picked to represent the capital in this proposed league? And what happens to the other clubs in Dublin in such a scenario?

I didn't say anything had to happen to the clubs. The GAA has plenty of clubs, and a county based league.

(Not that I have much respect for the clubs. Most Irish clubs could only win a league if football was taken out of the equation, and they had to compete in a triathlon of Infighting, Strutting and Corruption.)

[Acornvilla]

nothings going to happen anyway so this is all sort of irrelivant.. clubs need to get their own houses in order first and foremost. The only thing the fai should be doing currently is enforcing their rules and possibly investing in helping the clubs get proper infrastructures in place be it youth academys or improving stadia. everything else really is up to the clubs.. and i do agree with the argument that the league needs more exposure but at the moment all the fai have to sell to the public is a league in turmoil..

[dahamsta]

While I don't disagree that nothing's going to happen, I genuinely believe that the league as it stands can't and won't work. If it could, it would by now.

[Acornvilla]

but it does work fine (bar the fact its a 10 team league but thats not what this is about) for clubs that obey the rules but there put at a huge disadvantage by the clubs who carry on chasing titles and european success when they cant aford too.. clubs have to be more realistic.. if the clubs that were there payed more attention to their youth set up and creating links with the local leagues and communities while investing in ceating a good match day experience then the success will follow but people here always want a quick fix.. The truth is there is no bloody quick fix

[dahamsta]

Clubs don't obey the rules. The FAI doesn't implement the rules. How is that "working"?

[Acornvilla]

and that is the problem things would be ok IF they did.. i said as much im my previous post..

the problem is that the big clubs dont obey the rules so the small ones suffer..

the fai are eginning to get a backbone finally.. but to little at the moment

[pineapple stu]

Clubs don't obey the rules. The FAI doesn't implement the rules. How is that "working"?
In that case though (and I agree with you that that's the main problem), the solution is to start implementing the rules, and to kick out those people not obeying the rules. Changing to a county based system won't change anything in that regard.

I agree with Dodge's post overall. The league has always worked; aside from the morons running it, people just have too much "ambition" and think not reaching their unrealistic targets constitues failure.

[dahamsta]

Much as I love being agreed with, I didn't say that was the main problem. :)

The "professional" league has never worked, and can never work, because of basic economies of scale. That's why semi-pro or fully amateur is the only way it can succeed, and why clubs either need to look on what they do as a hobby, or as a business. Unfortunately, most think they can do both. Brian Lennox is an example of a guy that nearly, but not quite, pulled it off.

[pineapple stu]

I'll agree fully with that, but it doesn't follow from that that a county or province based system would be best.

The league is grand; people just need to accept it for what it is and try and improve it slowly.