Rugby Union 2010

[OneRedArmy]

I disagree that it's hard to draw positives. I watched the NZ TV feed and there was no sense the ABs took their foot off the pedal. It's not their style to coast. The cameras regularly cut to Henry and he wasn't happy. The commentators were extremely unhappy the ABs shipped 4 tries and praised Ireland's 2nd half play.

I'd change the two half backs for Australia though.

[Real ale Madrid]

Well if Henry was not happy then NZ must have been taking thier foot off the gas. Grand if you want if you want to take positives but any positives must be taken into context of the intensity of the second half which was not at normal test match level. Ireland showed a professional attitude in not giving up totally in the second half which is least you would expect. If buckey and Trimble play as well for 80 mins against Australia then I'll be happy to change my view.

[shakermaker1982]

I thought we were brilliant in the 2nd half. Fair play to em because NZ could put a 100 on you if heads dropped. It's a shame Heaslip lost the plot because the game was starting to hot up and I think we'd have ran them close.

Was Wayne Barnes going to give us a penalty on their line or did he want to wait another 2 minutes for the ball to come back?

Buckley was excellent and I hope he keeps getting more game time.

[joeSoap]

Side picked to play the Maori on Friday...

15 Geordan Murphy (c), 14 Shane Horgan, 13 Gavin Duffy, 12 Paddy Wallace, 11 Johne Murphy, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Eoin Reddan, 8 Chris Henry, 7 Niall Ronan, 6 Rhys Ruddock, 5 Dan Tuohy, 4 Ed O'Donoghue, 3 Tom Court, 2 John Fogarty, 1 Marcus Horan.
Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin, 17 John Hayes, 18 Donncha O'Callaghan, 19 David Wallace, 20 Peter Stringer, 21 Ronan O'Gara, 22 Rob Kearney.

First impressions are that it is a weak side defensively, and has a very inexperienced pack bar Horan. Great opportunity for guys like Henry and Ruddock to make a name for themselves but theres a distinct lack of a real leader on the pitch to galvanise the side. This could be every bit as ugly as Saturday morning. At least theres a class bench there to be sprung if it goes pear shaped.

I'd predict a 20 point beating.

[Mr A]

Don't know a massive amount about some of those players so it's hard to know. The team has a bit of a hodge podge feel to it (Gavin Duffy at centre!?) and that is unlikely to lead to a good performance, but at the same time these guys will probably benefit from the experience.

[OneRedArmy]

After a pretty good performance against the Maori, team against the Wallabies is as expected, although I wouldn't have picked O'Leary or M. O'Driscoll. Surely Redden deserves his place? Kidney certainly doesn't have his favourites in the same way Fast Eddie did, but O'Leary is as close to teachers pet as it comes.

Good to see P. Wallace get the chance, D'Arcy's injury made the decision easy, but Wallace was the standout performer against the Maori IMO, constantly breaking the gainline and lots of clever offloads. Big chance for him on Saturday.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Wallace has done enough to warrant selection ahead of D'Arcy, but Reddan was fairly poor against the Maoris and was caught out at the ruck a few times. O'Driscoll is probably the better bet ahead of Tuohy but I have a feeling we'll see Mick go off injured at some point anyway. The only change I'd have made is to put Geordan Murphy in ahead of Kearney.

[OneRedArmy]

I think Wallace has done enough to warrant selection ahead of D'Arcy, but Reddan was fairly poor against the Maoris and was caught out at the ruck a few times. O'Driscoll is probably the better bet ahead of Tuohy but I have a feeling we'll see Mick go off injured at some point anyway. The only change I'd have made is to put Geordan Murphy in ahead of Kearney.I forgot about Geordan (how apt given how many times he's been forgotten at international level). Agree that he deserves to start. He's playing with a lot more confidence that Kearney. Kearney has had an absolute stinker of a season after a magnificant season last year with Leinster, Ireland and Lions. Hopefully its not permanent.

[Charlie Darwin]

He's shown glimpses but he's been hampered by a couple of small injuries and maybe a bit of a Lions hangover. There's a few lads in there who will particularly benefit from a summer's rest.

[Real ale Madrid]

I think Murphy's defence isn't up to standard at international level. Great going forward and has always been an excellent fielder of the ball but his defence has always been shaky. If he had been a more solid defender then he would have 100 caps I think.

What do people think our chances are on Saturday? Hopefully the fact that our scrum shouldn't be under as much pressure has got to give us a realistic chance of a win on Saturday. It does require some new faces to have big games. Delighted Sexton got the nod at out-half and fair dues to Paddy Wallace as well getting himself back in there - played a great game last Friday night against the Maori. Hopefully the lads that played against New Zealand will be out to redeem themselves. A win would be a nice boost I think, and maybe a psychological blow given that its the last time we play them before the World Cup in a years time. It should be an interesting game. Still think we are too knackered to get a win - Id do for a narrow win for the Aussies 14-11, but hopeful of a good result.

[endabob1]

Australia to win comfortably 2 tries minimum

[Mr A]

Australia Ireland stream: http://www.iraqgoals.net/9723-australia-vs-ireland-.html

[OneRedArmy]

How many times can we shoot ourselves in the foot on one tour?!

[Mr A]

That stream failed and I can't find another :(

[OneRedArmy]

The legacy of this tour should be a new forwards coach and a skills coach.

[Real ale Madrid]

Do you not think that we are just knackered at the end of a long season?

We have too small a player pool imo to play Rugby from August to june every year?

[OneRedArmy]

Our scrum has been poor for years, our lineout has been weak since the Autumn tour.

We can't have it both ways with the Southern Hemisphere sides, lauding victory against them at the end of their season in the Autumn and then claing tiredness when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Real ale Madrid]

Wont get any sympathy here I know but still I thought id highlight the disgraceful ticket prices for the Autumn international series at the Pallindrome in November.

Cheapest ticket for the New Zealand and South Africa games is 100 euros, 90 euros for the Argentina game, and 50 euro for the Samoa game. The clincher then is that you must buy a ticket for all 4 games - 340 euros! Before expenses etc.

An absolute disgrace. I thought the football prices were a bit on the steep side! These are double!

Same story for the 6 nations in the autumn. 100e each for England and France.

[Charlie Darwin]

Too rich for my blood.

[Jofspring]

Yup disgraceful prices. Hopefully people will boycott them and let the stadium rot being empty. Talk about making sport very elitist.

[OneRedArmy]

On a selfish personal note they make the 10 year tickets slightly better value.....

Expensive enough, are all tickets distributed through the clubs at this price? presumably even though there's no terrace there are still schoolboy tickets at a reduced price?

[Real ale Madrid]

Not sure if the club tickets are different, schoolboy tickets are 40 each for the big games and , 35 for the Pumas and 20 for the Samoa game. So 2 adults and 2 children for 1 game is 280 , and thats assuming you can buy for 1 game, which you can't so an average family of 4 it will cost €950 to attend the 4 games.

I hope people vote with thier feet. Is this the only way we can keep these players at home?

By having most of our big games on pay tv and charging this for the internationals ?

[OneRedArmy]

I'd say its probably the only way we can pay for the stadium.

If tickets aren't discounted through the clubs, its too much IMO. Personally though, I've no problem with those who aren't involved in club rugby being charged those prices.

[Real ale Madrid]

Well tickets I used to get in Lansdowne and Croker through local clubs were the same price as general sale tickets.

The prices are too much regardless, some people don't have the wherewithall to be involved due to family, travel, work commitments etc. Same in any sport. Fine if you want to fleece the day-trippers but don't fleece everybody.

[Macy]

If tickets aren't discounted through the clubs, its too much IMO. Personally though, I've no problem with those who aren't involved in club rugby being charged those prices.
I think clubs can sell them as individual tickets, not as the package.

I personally don't have too much of a problem with the prices. Obviously, there are genuine supporters not involved with clubs, but there's a hell of a lot of bandwagoners as well. Fleece them while rugby is popular.

I'm sure the GAA heads in the media and especially RTE (who seperately pay to sponsor and broadcast the GAA) will take full advantage to have a pop at the "foreign games" to distract from their own ticketing price issues and criticisms this summer.

[Mr A]

IRFU on the defensive: http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2010/0819/1224277196850.html

Bit of an odd one in there: "Irish Rugby is the only fully professional sport in Ireland and the only dividend that the IRFU produces is one of participation in sport".

They have 4 professional teams.. the FAI have at least as many. I wonder how they define "fully professional".

On the issue at hand- those prices just seem like a step too far and they may well regret it. More power to them if they can make it stick though.

[Dodge]

Leinster have also moved two games from the RDS to the Aviva. Magners league v Munster and the Clermont Auvergne game in the Heineken cup. Their lease with the RDS states they must play 13 games there a season, but the two Italian clubs in the league are extra so they've moved the 2 big games to the Aviva. I think I read they're charging €30

[OneRedArmy]

They will have no problem selling them this year with AB's, Argentina, Saffa's and England and France all at home.

Next year will be a different story with Scotland, Wales and Italy (is there even Autumn internationals next year with the World Cup only finishing in late Oct?).

[Charlie Darwin]

They will have no problem selling them this year with AB's, Argentina, Saffa's and England and France all at home.

Next year will be a different story with Scotland, Wales and Italy (is there even Autumn internationals next year with the World Cup only finishing in late Oct?).
Warm-up games against France, England and Argentina, I think. Not sure of the location.

[Macy]

I've asked a few here in work that are giving out whether they were going to pick the Argentina or Samoa games out of the four. Kinda took the wind out of their sails. When you strip it out, people aren't giving out about the prices for the Blacks and South Africa games - they are giving out about having to take the other tickets too. Big game charlies - the blight of all Irish sports.

[Real ale Madrid]

340 is a ridiculous amount of money for 4 games, no matter what spin you put on it. Its also stupid to ask even the most ardent international rugby supporters from Limerick, Cork, Donegal or wherever to come up to Dublin 4 weekends in a row and spend that kind of cash on fuel / food etc

There are 2 issues -

a) the prices are too high. ( You can get a ticket for France v Australia at Le Stade for €15 )

b) asking people to buy a 4 game package is ridiculous. They should be split into 2 blocks ( SA / Arg and NZ / Samoa )

I realise that its the daytrippers that are giving out, but it hurts the genuine regular fans the most. Those prices are indefensible.

[OneRedArmy]

Bit of perspective required. Yes the current prices are too high.

But stand tickets were €70 for big games in the last Lansdowne Road and were €90 in Croker. There were cheaper terrace tickets available, when there was a terrace. Bog standard ten year seats (not premium level, effectively the same as FAI block booker except you pay upfront) were €10,000 for 5/6 games a year, 6 years ago and £5,000 twenty years ago.

The recent increases are too much IMO, but rugby has always been a pretty expensive sport to watch international games.

[jbyrne]

But stand tickets were €70 for big games in the last Lansdowne Road

the most expensive were but not all as prices were tiered dependant on the quality of the seat. in this case you could pay €100 and be on the halfway line or for the same price end up in the front row at the corner flag.
This stadium was more than 50% funded by public money and, as per other european publicly funded stadiums, a certain number of tickets should be priced at affordable prices so that all sections of the public can access a stadium that they helped fund in the first place.


I've asked a few here in work that are giving out whether they were going to pick the Argentina or Samoa games out of the four. Kinda took the wind out of their sails. When you strip it out, people aren't giving out about the prices for the Blacks and South Africa games - they are giving out about having to take the other tickets too. Big game charlies - the blight of all Irish sports.

eh, yes thay are. these matches are effectively friendlies!

the IRFU are charging these prices as they know corporate Ireland will snap them up at any price. the official line is that most of the tickets go to the clubs but most of the clubs sell a lot of them on for two or three times face value to corporates. they couldnt give a hoot about the ordinary rugby fan getting into the stadium. that is just plain wrong. as a result the stadium is filled by people just sitting there (when they finally bother to take their seats) looking to be entertained. the atmosphere these days is pure rubbish as a result

[Real ale Madrid]

Bit of perspective required. Yes the current prices are too high.


Perspective should be delivered by comparing the cost of a similar fixture in Paris! Not by comparing high prices ( croker / lansdowne ) with even higher prices. I always thought rugby tickets were a bit expensive - but at least no one was forcing me to travel for 4 weekends in a row!

[jbyrne]

but at least no one was forcing me to travel for 4 weekends in a row!

agree, its supposed to be an all-Ireland team yet how could someone from west cork or donegal or even closer justify travelling to Dublin 4 weekends in a row? would cost about €250 per match. ridiculous.

[Macy]

eh, yes thay are. these matches are effectively friendlies!
The complaints I'm hearing are about having to buy all four, not the individual prices. They're giving out that it costs effectively €340 for the All Blacks game, not about what the individual All Blacks ticket costs.

Comparisons with French ticket prices aren't really fair either - clubs fund their professionalism, not their Union.

[OneRedArmy]

eh, yes thay are. these matches are effectively friendlies!If you think autumn test matches are a friendly, you're in the wrong thread.


Perspective should be delivered by comparing the cost of a similar fixture in Paris! Not by comparing high prices ( croker / lansdowne ) with even higher prices. I always thought rugby tickets were a bit expensive - but at least no one was forcing me to travel for 4 weekends in a row!Nobody is forcing you to do anything. But I do agree the 4 matches, on four consecutive weekends, and making people buy them all is a bit much.


agree, its supposed to be an all-Ireland team yet how could someone from west cork or donegal or even closer justify travelling to Dublin 4 weekends in a row? would cost about €250 per match. ridiculous.The autumn matches tend to be on consecutive weekends every year, or close to it.

[Real ale Madrid]

Comparisons with French ticket prices aren't really fair either - clubs fund their professionalism, not their Union.

Scotland v New Zealand tickets start at £20. Demand isn't the same I know as will be here but thats an incredible difference. Scotland like oursleves also rely heavily on Internationals to fund thier professional sides.

Players have taken a 30% pay-cut this season according to below article. Surely at the very least ticket prices should have stayed the same, probably even reduced. Not increased in the manner that they have.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/rugby-players-add-to-criticism-of-ticket-prices-470046.html

[Macy]

Nothing to stop people grouping together and then splitting the tickets, if the travel was the real issue. I don't think the IRFU have much leeway with the scheduling.

[OneRedArmy]

Surely at the very least ticket prices should have stayed the same, probably even reduced. Come on, get in the real world!!! The IRFU have an expensive stadium to fund at a time when bank loans are horrendously difficult to refinance and interest rates are only going to go up. It would be imprudent of them not to reduce debt whilst they can. Who knows how long we'll have a top 5 international team for?

If it backfires in the long-run it will be a mistake, but as long as people are willing to pay it and their is debt outstanding then its the right thing to do. And I disagree with the comment above on corporates, the corporate entertainment market in Ireland is a fraction of what it was.

There is a huge amount of revisionism at the heart of this discussion. Rightly or wrongly, to a large percentage of the audience for a given international the price is fairly immaterial. Whether you like it or not thats a fact. Rugby attracts the sheepskin coat and hipflask brigade and always has, and probably only in Limerick has it been anything other than a firmly middle class sport (until the last 5 years at least).

[Jinxy]

I think clubs can sell them as individual tickets, not as the package.

I personally don't have too much of a problem with the prices. Obviously, there are genuine supporters not involved with clubs, but there's a hell of a lot of bandwagoners as well. Fleece them while rugby is popular.

I'm sure the GAA heads in the media and especially RTE (who seperately pay to sponsor and broadcast the GAA) will take full advantage to have a pop at the "foreign games" to distract from their own ticketing price issues and criticisms this summer.

If you look hard enough I'm sure you'll find that the GAA are actually responsible for the rugby ticket prices.

[Real ale Madrid]

Come on, get in the real world!!! The IRFU have an expensive stadium to fund at a time when bank loans are horrendously difficult to refinance and interest rates are only going to go up. It would be imprudent of them not to reduce debt whilst they can. Who knows how long we'll have a top 5 international team for?

If it backfires in the long-run it will be a mistake, but as long as people are willing to pay it and their is debt outstanding then its the right thing to do. And I disagree with the comment above on corporates, the corporate entertainment market in Ireland is a fraction of what it was.

There is a huge amount of revisionism at the heart of this discussion. Rightly or wrongly, to a large percentage of the audience for a given international the price is fairly immaterial. Whether you like it or not thats a fact. Rugby attracts the sheepskin coat and hipflask brigade and always has, and probably only in Limerick has it been anything other than a firmly middle class sport (until the last 5 years at least).

Sorry ORA - while you are correct about the type of supporter rugby normally attracts, I'm not sure the IRFU is in such financial dire straights that they can charge such prices for thier games. According to the Save Irish rugby campaign The IRFU made a profit of 2m to the year ending April 09 ( 23m from ticketing ) . They sold out the 10 year tickets long ago. I appreciate the levels of debt but these pricing structures risk driving people from matches alltogether.http://www.irishrugby.ie/save/20953_the_facts.php

The IRFU should be promoting rugby as a sport for all - all they seem to be doing lately is making sure the HC stays on pay tv ( another thing which I don't agree with ) and then punishing a lot of their loyal following on ticket prices and ticket groupings.

Anyway any notions I had of attending internationals this year are finished. My Magners league season ticket ( 11 league games and 1 friendly ) would have only got me into 3 of the November internationals. The value for money isn't there with the international tickets. And I know lots of people who feel the same.

At the end of the day I suppose the point you make about the price of tickets being immaterial is the key one. If they can sell out the games - you are taking in the region of 16m in takings, so good luck to them and it will make definite financial sense - but they will lose some fans in the process I think.

[jbyrne]

If you think autumn test matches are a friendly, you're in the wrong thread.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. But I do agree the 4 matches, on four consecutive weekends, and making people buy them all is a bit much.

The autumn matches tend to be on consecutive weekends every year, or close to it.

we have never had 4 matches in one month before. until recently it was two matches every autumn.
ive attended practically every home match since 1985 and many many away matches so i know what the threads about thanks. the autumn internationals are not wc qualification matches nor 6 nation matches. they lead to nothing whatsoever and are glorified friendlys where the recent trend by many southern hemisphere teams has been to send weakened teams

[jbyrne]

The complaints I'm hearing are about having to buy all four, not the individual prices. They're giving out that it costs effectively €340 for the All Blacks game, not about what the individual All Blacks ticket costs.


thats your experience not mine and not many others that i know that very regularly attend home and away Ireland rugby matches. tell your contacts that i will hapily take the other three matches off their hands if thay actually manage to get their hands on a package. i know many others who will also.


Comparisons with French ticket prices aren't really fair either - clubs fund their professionalism, not their Union.

id say munster and leinster are well able to substantially fund themselves given the crowds they get, sponsorship (€6m deal announced yesterday by munster) and tv money etc.

the comparison with france is a good one. they too play in a stadium largely funded by public money and such money came with a stipulation that a certain % of tickets are priced low to make the stadium accessable to all

[Fry]

id say munster and leinster are well able to substantially fund themselves given the crowds they get, sponsorship (€6m deal announced yesterday by munster) and tv money etc.

The IRFU fund the provinces to the tune of millions a year. That sponsorship is spread over three years too.

[jbyrne]

The IRFU fund the provinces to the tune of millions a year. That sponsorship is spread over three years too.

i'm sure they do but an average of 15,000 fans 15 times a year into the RDS to watch leinster play equates to about €8m excluding tv, sponsorship and corporate dinners. what would a professional Lge of Ireland team give for that kind of loot.

only €2m sponsorship a year? enough to pay 10 players €200k a year!

[Fry]

what would a professional Lge of Ireland team give for that kind of loot.

Their ground or their long term future.

[Dodge]

agree, its supposed to be an all-Ireland team yet how could someone from west cork or donegal or even closer justify travelling to Dublin 4 weekends in a row? would cost about €250 per match. ridiculous.

Are they flying by helicopter? There's no way it costs that much in "extras" for each match

[jbyrne]

Are they flying by helicopter? There's no way it costs that much in "extras" for each match

say travelling from cork or similar... ticket €100, train €60, food €30. other bits and pieces would add up to a bit. ok, maybe not €250 but not far from it excluding an overnight

[Dodge]

Get the bus, bring a packed lunch. Save yourself 100 per trip (or the price of your ticket if you prefer...)