Rugby Union 2010

[OneRedArmy]

say travelling from cork or similar... ticket €100, train €60, food €30. other bits and pieces would add up to a bit. ok, maybe not €250 but not far from it excluding an overnightMore likely to be €100 diesel in the Range Rover and two nights in the Westbury based on my (admittedly amateur) profiling of many of those who sit beside me at the rugby!

Lets not lose sight of the issue, the IRFU are bogging the arm in, because they can. They have built up a huge potential international fanbase which is now, as a result of the success of the team (that old Irish chesnut as Macy pointed out) and the larger size of Croker, too large to be accomodated at Lansdowne.

What do you do when demand outstrips supply? You increase prices.

Ireland are currently in the bizarre situation that they can't cater for the demand to attend at either international or provincial level. Yet outside of tag rugby, adult playing population has fallen quite a lot. If generating more revenue allows the IRFU to keep the international teams and provinces competitive, pays back the debt AND allows grassroots investment to grow the playing base, then its a no brainer IMO.

And as Macy said, if you can only afford one or two games, share. I know lots of people who informally do this (and do it for FAI block bookings also).

[jbyrne]

Lets not lose sight of the issue, the IRFU are bogging the arm in, because they can. They have built up a huge potential international fanbase which is now, as a result of the success of the team (that old Irish chesnut as Macy pointed out) and the larger size of Croker, too large to be accomodated at Lansdowne.

even in the 90's when we hardly won a match there was massive demand. demand has increased further but we could always sell far more tickets than capacity allowed even when we were not successful, in fact pretty awful

[Charlie Darwin]

More likely to be €100 diesel in the Range Rover and two nights in the Westbury based on my (admittedly amateur) profiling of many of those who sit beside me at the rugby!

Lets not lose sight of the issue, the IRFU are bogging the arm in, because they can. They have built up a huge potential international fanbase which is now, as a result of the success of the team (that old Irish chesnut as Macy pointed out) and the larger size of Croker, too large to be accomodated at Lansdowne.
Are you sure they can afford to chance their arm? As well-off as rugby supporters usually are, 340 squid is taking the ****.

[OneRedArmy]

Are you sure they can afford to chance their arm? As well-off as rugby supporters usually are, 340 squid is taking the ****.I reckon there'll get away with it this season anyway.

[Macy]

even in the 90's when we hardly won a match there was massive demand. demand has increased further but we could always sell far more tickets than capacity allowed even when we were not successful, in fact pretty awful
Only for the Championship, due to the number of away fans. Well into the "golden generation" era you could get Autumn Internationals very easy up to close to the match from official sources.

[Dodge]

World Cup warm ups announced

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2010/0830/1224277879892.html

Home v France, England
Away to Scotland, France

[Jofspring]

Already hearing a lot of people say they have cancelled the bookings they usually take for international tickets because of the price. Also a lot of people cancelling memberships they had with clubs that they used for international tickets. I for one will not be attending any more international games unless i come across a freebie. I hope the Aviva is half empty when the Autumn internationals come around. Don't you know though there will be plenty of people willing to cough up the dosh though. How long that lasts is anybodies guess.

The FAI have already priced people out of the Man U game and the Argentina one. They had to give out thousands of free tickets for the United match and that game was priced at €65. The general Irish public just can't afford these prices anymore or should i say the people from outside of Dublin who have the added costs of travel etc....

[Charlie Darwin]

Why would you cancel your club membership over the IRFU's pricing policy?

[Dodge]

Why would you cancel your club membership over the IRFU's pricing policy?

Because you're a golry hunting half fan who has no interest in the grass roots game and only joined the club to get international tickets?

[Jofspring]

Why would you cancel your club membership over the IRFU's pricing policy?

I wouldn't cancel for this reason but a lot of people are. While these people are glory hunters it is their money the clubs need. At the end of the day most the clubs don't care who pays membership once they get it and losing people for any reason is not good for them.

[Mr A]

Watching the Leinster game.. they're shockingly bad!

Really looking forward to Connacht-Ulster tomorrow night, both teams in good form and should be a cracker.

[Charlie Darwin]

Really don't know how we managed to win that game but I'll take it.

[Schumi]

Really don't know how we managed to win that gameSexton came on!

Seriously, the fluency in the backline after he came on was miles above anything Leinster have had all year.

[tetsujin1979]

Sexton came on!

Seriously, the fluency in the backline after he came on was miles above anything Leinster have had all year.
I didn't notice him doing much when he came on. The biggest cheer he got was when the stadium announcer said he scored the conversion, when it was clearly Nacewa!

[Schumi]

I didn't notice him doing much when he came on.
Are you serious? He got the backline moving much more quickly than Nacewa had.

[Charlie Darwin]

You can't have failed to notice the wraparounds that began almost as soon as he took to the pitch. Nacewa is a great back three player and has great individual skill but he can't bring his backline into the game like Sexton. I have high hopes for young Madigan though.

[Real ale Madrid]

Very interesting to see the fall-out from the over-priced Autumn internationals.

The First climb down from the IRFU was the splitting of tickets into NZ / Arg and then SA / Samoa.

Then they became available to clubs and supporters clubs as individual tickets and they tried to double up the argentina and samoa games with the France and England 6 nations games.

The IRFU are forcing clubs to buy these tickets and if clubs send tickets back they are told they will have reduced allocations for the 6 nations.

Clubs struggling to sell the tickets now and there are 1,000's of tickets left unsold for all the matches, apart from the AB's game which apparently has had a good take up since the single tickets became available.

Perhaps the Diesel in the Range Rover is becoming too expensive !

A total shambles.

[Macy]

A bit about this on Morning Ireland this morning, with Donal Lenihan, about clubs selling for below cost to recoup money. I wonder how many NZ tickets they're sending back or selling below cost? Of course, Des "GAA" Cahill didn't even ask...

[OneRedArmy]

A bit about this on Morning Ireland this morning, with Donal Lenihan, about clubs selling for below cost to recoup money. I wonder how many NZ tickets they're sending back or selling below cost? Of course, Des "GAA" Cahill didn't even ask...The prices are too high, there's no doubt, but as you say, there's no shortage of demand for the All Blacks. If thats what people want, bang up the prices for the AB's and drop the prices for the other ones. I'd bet the same people will still whinge. In an article in the Times the IRFU CEO basically admitted they were making hay whilst the sun shone as there are no Autumn Internationals next year due to the World Cup (and given the time of the WC warm up matches in the summer, unlikely to be anywhere near the demand as for Autumn series).

[Macy]

And part of the issue the clubs appear to have is that they'll loose tickets for the championship if they don't take autumn international tickets - pretty much like FAI block booking. I'm not sure I have a problem with it - people want guaranteed tickets, but to pick and choose games - the pricing appears to be a secondary issue imo. If they put them on open sale with guaranteed England and France tickets they'd sell imo.

[OneRedArmy]

The France-England point is a good one, as not only will 2011/12 season have no Autumn internationals, we have Scotland, Wales and Italy at home. Again, most of the whingers will be nowhere to be seen for those fixtures and I presume the IRFU will have to reduce prices.

If the Greens get their way and get the Heineken Cup free to air we could see basically the whole of the international team playing abroad.

As for the clubs, I've sympathy for those that actually distribute their tickets to members, however a lot of clubs distribute limited or no tickets to members and have sold them at a huge profit to brokers and corporate hospitality for the last decade (admitted to fund the running of the club sides). Presumably that market is down significantly so the clubs are struggling to find takers.

[Macy]

The France-England point is a good one, as not only will 2011/12 season have no Autumn internationals, we have Scotland, Wales and Italy at home. Again, most of the whingers will be nowhere to be seen for those fixtures and I presume the IRFU will have to reduce prices.

....

As for the clubs, I've sympathy for those that actually distribute their tickets to members, however a lot of clubs distribute limited or no tickets to members and have sold them at a huge profit to brokers and corporate hospitality for the last decade (admitted to fund the running of the club sides). Presumably that market is down significantly so the clubs are struggling to find takers.
As far as I can tell, the clubs are having the England and France games held over them - take the tickets this time to guarantee tickets for those games. If the clubs were passing on that to their members (i.e. take these tickets to guarantee England and France) I'd be surprised if they didn't sell. I suspect they're not though.

[Real ale Madrid]

It doesn't really matter which games you pair the tickets off with the cost is still too high for the majority and thats the feedback the clubs are getting. Even the France / England 6 nations games are 100e a pop.

I know you are hurting the daytrippers but you are also hurting the clubs who now who have to fork out for these games. EGM is probably going to take place now as nearly all the clubs are dissatisfied.

I'm not so sure there is plenty demand for the All Blacks game either - I saw a few ads for them in the Sunday papers yesterday - with buffet + entertainment at no extra cost!

The most peculiar thing about all this to me is that accoring to an article in one of the Sunday papers yesterday ( think it was the times - i'll post up link when I find it ) the IRFU are in debt with regards to the stadium to the tune of 6 million and many 10 year tickets which always seem to sell well are up for renewal in both 2013 and 2015. Hardly an organisation in dire financial straits.

[Real ale Madrid]

Ireland team to play South Africa, Saturday 6 November, Aviva Stadium, kick-off 5.30pm:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Gordon Darcy
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Jonathan Sexton
9. Eoin Reddan
8. Jamie Heaslip
7. David Wallace
6. Stephen Ferris
5. Mick O'Driscoll
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
3. Tony Buckley
2. Rory Best
1. Cian Healy

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin
17 - Tom Court
18 - Donnacha Ryan
19 - Denis Leamy
20 - Peter Stringer
21 - Ronan O'Gara
22 - Keith Earls/Andrew Trimble/Paddy Wallace

No major shocks - we look a bit weak in the front 5 but with the visitors not exactly at full strength - this could be an opportunity to get another win over them.

[Charlie Darwin]

It doesn't really matter which games you pair the tickets off with the cost is still too high for the majority and thats the feedback the clubs are getting. Even the France / England 6 nations games are 100e a pop.

I know you are hurting the daytrippers but you are also hurting the clubs who now who have to fork out for these games. EGM is probably going to take place now as nearly all the clubs are dissatisfied.
The clubs only have to pay for the ones they sell now. The IRFU implie they'll work out a figure for the unsold inventory, but something tells me it'll be approximately exactly precisely around 0.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/1102/1224282486901.html

That said, the IRFU is going to have to pull a rabbit out of the hat if it's going to keep the vast majority of our centrally-contracted players beyond the World Cup. Even if the Greens don't get their way, they still can't compete in the monetary stakes with France.

[shakermaker1982]

How can he keep on Best? Baffling.

[dfx-]

Great win for an understrength underprepared out of form SA

Matfield was outstanding, SA pack ruled supreme

[Charlie Darwin]

How can he keep on Best? Baffling.
I don't know why he puts Cronin on the bench when he clearly doesn't trust him.

Matfield was imperious - his tackle to make sure Kearney could only touch down in the corner won his team the match. But really SA only won because we were dreadful. Gameplan was seriously flawed.

[OneRedArmy]

Every facet of our game was poor. It's a wonder the game was so close when our scrum and lineout was so poor and the 9-10 axis failed miserably.

I honestly don't see D'Arcy, Wallace or Best as leading us into the World Cup so I'm not sure why they are in the team. Cronin, Earls, Trimble and O'Brien need game time.

Sexton's inconsistency is infuriating. O'Gara and particularly Stringer offered something completely different.

As for Buckley, at some stage he's going to have to demonstrate he can scrummage at international level. Otherwise he's too big of a risk.

[Macy]

Sexton's inconsistency is infuriating. O'Gara and particularly Stringer offered something completely different.
It seems set it stone that it has to be Redden and Sexton or O'Gara and Stringer. Can we not see Stringer and Sexton ffs?


As for Buckley, at some stage he's going to have to demonstrate he can scrummage at international level. Otherwise he's too big of a risk.
Or too old to risk - at least there's long term benefit of persisting with Healy (although I felt he did ok - most issues on the tighthead side). Ross has been doing well for Leinster, and is only a few months older than Buckley afaik.

Also, Cullen has to come into the reckoning to try and sure up the line out, and give us more of a threat on the opposition throw. I don't really buy into the bias bs, but I'm not sure what he's done to Kidney in the past!

[OneRedArmy]

Cullen probably doesn't get a look in for the same reason as Bob Casey, lack of mobility around the park. They do ok at the Heineken Cup level but the South African and All Black locks are so much more dynamic and more like back rows in the loose. I do agree a change is required and Mick O'Driscoll isn't the answer. I'd give Ryan a run out. I've always liked his aggression and physicality.

I'd pick Stringer and Sexton for next week to see how they go.

[Mr A]

Very few Irish players came out of that game with much credit to be honest.

O'Gara did make an impact when he came on and Court made a huge difference to the scrum.

I'd have Cullen back in there in a heartbeat, and Casey. Ain't going to happen though.

[Dodge]

Attendance released yesterday of 35,000. Pretty embaressing for the IRFU.

[shakermaker1982]

Best, MO'D, Reddan are not good enough. Best has a panic attack every time he takes a line out. MO'D isn't good enough for top level test match rugby and Reddan is one of the slowest scrum halfs I have ever seen.

Flannery, PO'C and O'Leary fit and healthy would have made the game a bit closer on Saturday (I know there was only 2 points in it but there was only 1 team playing for the first hour).

[Macy]

Cullen probably doesn't get a look in for the same reason as Bob Casey, lack of mobility around the park. They do ok at the Heineken Cup level but the South African and All Black locks are so much more dynamic and more like back rows in the loose.
It's a long time since either got a genuine chance though. Cullen got a bit of a run in the Championship, and iirc he ended it even with being dropped with the best lineout stats of any second rower in the tournament!

I really don't get the logic of loose play totally over set play in the tight five to be honest - Cullen or Casey wouldn't exactly be the liabilities in the loose anyway imo. That choice (mobility ahead of set piece) cost us one try directly on Saturday, and countless turnovers (did we even get 50% on our own throw?). Edit - the intercept was off crap line out ball too iirc But that could be the old, immobile, front rower in me! :)

[Real ale Madrid]

Reddan was directly at fault for both tries - dismal performance.

Front 5 is a huge issue ( gettting worse if anything ) O'Driscoll got into the team due to his performance against Toulon in the HC, better options being overlooked. Tom Court did ok when he came on, I don't know if he is the answer to our troubles. I'm not sure how much rugby Best has played this year - was a big ask for him on Saturday in the circumstances.

Can't understand the game plan at all if we kept it relatively simple and limited the mistakes we probably would have won comfortably. For all the possession we gave them we werent exactly under pressure for long spells.

Delighted with the crowd - at least people have voted with thier feet. It would have been truely sickening if that ticket structure was vindicated. - looking at a crowd of about 15k for the samoa game next week imo.

[joeSoap]

Some of the selections against South Africa baffled me. Some of the selections against Samoa have astounded me.
Why is Brian O'Driscoll playing against Samoa? To get arses on seats I think. Samoa are a side that are not even at Heineken Cup level realistically and our team selection should have reflected where we want to go from here. The likes of Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave, any little fat kid down the street that wants to play prop instead of John Hayes ffs???. No disrespect to John Hayes but his selection completely stumps me. What does Fionn Carr have to do to get recognised? Chris Henry? How are any of these lads going to prove that they have what it takes? Mike Ross can only be injured....sorry, must only have one leg, because to play a man that is nearly 37 years of age in a meaningless international ahead of him beggars belief...

[Charlie Darwin]

O'Driscoll's only had one match in the last month. He'll benefit from an extra game before NZ (provided he doesn't get injured). Samoa have as good a World Cup record as us.

[Schumi]

Mike Ross must have must have said something bad about Kidney's mother. How he's behind Hayes is the pecking order is beyond me.

[OneRedArmy]

Kidney is getting more like Fast Eddie as each day goes by....

Toner is about the only thing to get excited about and possibly Fitzgerald at 15.

I've no doubt Wallace and O'Driscoll will work well against Samoa, but as a pairing they won't cut it against a top side (like...erm....New Zealand) as they are both 12's at this stage in their careers. Earls, Cave, McFadden and even Trimble are the future at 13.

I'd say at this stage Hayes is probably even questioning why he can't be let retire to his farm in peace.

[tetsujin1979]

Skippy, Crocodile Dundee, The Bushwackers - your boys took a hell of a beating!

[joeSoap]

Just heard the team from a mate at HQ, and to say I'm shocked is an understatement.

Kearney; Bowe, BOD, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald; Sexton, Reddan; Healy, Best, Court; O'Callaghan, O'Driscoll; Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip. Bench: Cronin, Hayes, Toner, Leamy, Stringer, O'Gara and AN Other who I presume will be Earls.

Baffling me in particular are the selections of Kearney, Reddan and O'Driscoll. And possibly that of D'Arcy...

I cant see why Kearney is being retained at full back. He is so one dimensional, can't pass on the run and is woefully off form. Earls, Murphy or Fitzgerald are all better options. Play him on the wing instead perhaps? Reddans selection could cost us the game. I am amazed at this selection and as for Mick O'Driscoll up against that All Black front five....heaven help us.

[Charlie Darwin]

Who else could play instead of D'Arcy? He's the only centre we have capable of solid defence against Nonu/Williams and Smith. Reddan and O'Driscoll are disappointing and, I think, wrong selections but Kearney is the right call for me (though I'd have been happy with Murphy).

[joeSoap]

Who else could play instead of D'Arcy? He's the only centre we have capable of solid defence against Nonu/Williams and Smith. You make it sound that D'Arcy is a really solid defender? I haven't seen this in well over two seasons and between injury, and a loss of form and confidence he hasn't been himself at all.

The purpose of these internationals is to try and test new ideas and blood players to see how they will fare in the six nations and world cup. This has not been done. I really worry about the six nations and world cup to be honest, given that the players we really rely on will be a year older and by then it looks like our problems in the scrum definitely will not be solved, we have no tangible back up for O'Connell, Reddan is a woeful scrum half and we have a full back who cant pass the ball.

[Schumi]

A perplexing team. How can the lineout that failed spectacularly against South Africa be put in again against New Zealand? Why can't Sexton and Stringer play together? Reddan isn't up to it but only gets dropped when O'Gara starts.

[Charlie Darwin]

You make it sound that D'Arcy is a really solid defender? I haven't seen this in well over two seasons and between injury, and a loss of form and confidence he hasn't been himself at all.
He's not been great but he's always solid. I doubt we'd have seen the gaping hole that Tuilagi ran through had D'Arcy been there. Plus Wallace has this habit of getting injured in high-intensity games.

[OneRedArmy]

Who else could play instead of D'Arcy? He's the only centre we have capable of solid defence against Nonu/Williams and Smith. Reddan and O'Driscoll are disappointing and, I think, wrong selections but Kearney is the right call for me (though I'd have been happy with Murphy).You play BOD at 12 and Earls at 13. Plays to each of their strengths. Sexton much better defender than O'Gara so that compensates. But if our mindset going in is picking the best defender in each position then we deserve to get hammered.

I pretty much agree with Joe Soap's comments.

[bluemovie]

A perplexing team. How can the lineout that failed spectacularly against South Africa be put in again against New Zealand? Why can't Sexton and Stringer play together? Reddan isn't up to it but only gets dropped when O'Gara starts.

Exactly. I can't understand why we can only have the Leinster pairing or the Munster pair. This is surely last chance saloon for Reddan. He was terrible the last day. If he doesn't perform on Saturday, he should be down to about fourth choice scrum half. I could definitely see the lineout being obliterated again on Saturday until Toner comes on. Hopefully Court improves a lot too. Bad feeling about all this.

[Charlie Darwin]

You play BOD at 12 and Earls at 13. Plays to each of their strengths. Sexton much better defender than O'Gara so that compensates. But if our mindset going in is picking the best defender in each position then we deserve to get hammered.

I pretty much agree with Joe Soap's comments.
I'd say you pick the players with the best all-round game and in my opinion that is still D'Arcy and O'Driscoll. I'd like to see a BOD/Earls combination but Argentina is probably the game to try it (you're right though - it won't happen).

[joeSoap]

Theres a total lack of ambition in this selection. It smacks of 'going with the tried and tested' and really isn't going to get us anywhere. If you're playing players with the best all round game then Reddan should be nowhere near this squad, O'Gara should start ahead of Sexton and Murphy is a vastly more complete footballer than Kearney. It's typical old Ireland...conservative and trying to save face rather than letting guys cut their teeth and make mistakes against the big boys. How else are they going to learn? If I had to select my side for this game with whats available to me it would go along these lines: Luke Fitzgerald; Bowe, Earls, O'Driscoll, Kearney; Sexton, Stringer; Court, Best, Ross; O'Callaghan, Cullen; Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip.

I really believe Sexton would gain so much experience having played with Stringer. To me, O'Gara still represents the better option because of his way better temperament but getting superior quality ball will greatly help Sextons decision making.