Linfield pull out of Setanta Cup

[brendy_éire]

It's all our fault, it seems.


One match that Kerr won’t be working to organise is the Blues’ scheduled Setanta Sports Cup return date with Derry City.

The cross-border competition is due to resume next month, with Linfield facing the Candystripes at the Brandywell on Saturday February 27, but Kerr will refuse to take his club to the north-west.

Derry are currently in liquidation, they owe money to players who weren’t paid full wages since August as well as both Linfield and Dungannon Swifts and Kerr won’t face a re-formed club.

“We won’t be playing Derry City in the Setanta Cup,” said Kerr. “The Derry City that qualified for the competition has ceased to exist and they have gone into liquidation owing money to ourselves and Dungannon Swifts — although I have been told that we’ll get all the money. If a new Derry City comes into operation, which looks likely as they are signing players, they still don’t have a right to play in the Setanta Cup.”

The initial shine of the Setanta Cup, which got off to a blistering start in its first season when Linfield won the trophy, has vanished.

The scheduling of the competition, with the league seasons north and south of the border not running in parallel, has been a problem and the financial straits of the sponsors have seen prize money cut.

After being a success in the early stages, the Setanta Cup has been in intensive care for sometime and the Blues are now ready to cut off its life-support.

“As far as I am concerned the competition is now dead in the water,” said Kerr.

“We were told that money would be paid up-front, we received a portion of that and referee’s expenses were then deducted from the second payment.

“The prize money, which has been reduced from the original figure, is in doubt and it’s now going to cost clubs money to play in it.”



Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/linfield-to-pull-out-of-setanta-cup-scrap-with-derry-14622229.html#ixzz0bjE0wtQl

I think they've missed the point that it's an invitational tournament, so Setanta could invite whoever they wanted.

[tiktok]

I think they've missed the point that it's an invitational tournament, so Setanta could invite whoever they wanted.

They're dead right, 'New' Derry City shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the competition.

[brendy_éire]

They're dead right, 'New' Derry City shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the competition.

We shouldn't really, but it's for Setanta to decide who gets to play, not Linfield. Setanta are the ones paying for it.

[tiktok]

We shouldn't really, but it's for Setanta to decide who gets to play, not Linfield. Setanta are the ones paying for it.

Why go through the farce that it's based on league positions and cup wins so, if it's purely invitational. Anyway, the invitees were decided on last year, to parachute a new entity in when one goes bust is ridiculous, they may as well have dropped Finn Harps in there.

[Mr A]

Fair play to Linfield , this is the only stance that makes sense and it's incredible that it had to come from them rather than the organisers.

[brendy_éire]

Anyway, the invitees were decided on last year, to parachute a new entity in when one goes bust is ridiculous, they may as well have dropped Finn Harps in there.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but what would you suggest they do?
Could maybe invite the next highest league finishers in 2008? That would be enough, IMO.

[CMcC]

Are Linfield pulling out of the competition or just refusing to fulfill the Derry fixture?

[Not Brazil]

They're dead right, 'New' Derry City shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the competition.

Given the fiasco over payment for tickets by the "old" Derry City for the game at Windsor Park, I'm not in the least surprised at this decision.

[tiktok]

I'm not saying it's ideal, but what would you suggest they do?
Could maybe invite the next highest league finishers in 2008? That would be enough, IMO.

Let existing results stand [both Pats and Linfield have drawn 1-1 with Derry].
Award Linfield and St.Pats 1-0 wins each for the remaining Derry fixtures.
It leaves Linfield and St.Pats, who haven't played each other yet, with identical records.
They play their two matches [already scheduled] as a two-legged play-off to top the group.

If the awarded win means Pat's or Linfield ends up as best runner up in the end, so be it.

[Derry]

Given the fiasco over payment for tickets by the "old" Derry City for the game at Windsor Park, I'm not in the least surprised at this decision.

Tell us again why Linfield didn't play Derry City in the 1st game last season. This is the second time they've pulled out of playing Derry City in this years competition. The last time it had to cost Derry City the best part of £50000. linfield have done nothing but try to undermine Satanta since it started. Every year they had a different complaint. It works for them with the IFA, but others should tell them were to get off.

[marinobohs]

Let existing results stand [both Pats and Linfield have drawn 1-1 with Derry].
Award Linfield and St.Pats 1-0 wins each for the remaining Derry fixtures.
It leaves Linfield and St.Pats, who haven't played each other yet, with identical records.
They play their two matches as a two-legged play-off to top the group.

If the awarded win means Pat's or Linfield ends up as best runner up in the end, so be it.

+ 1. seems the logical way to deal with the situation. Cannot see how the "new" Derry would play in it but even more ridiculous is the idea of inviting another team in half way through the competition (right so, its an invite :D). Much the same as if a club folded or was expelled, results stand and walkovers given in respect of games not yet played.
I have no idea if the SETANTA Cup rules cover this scenario so the above is (in my view) just common sense.

[Mr_Parker]

It's all our fault, it seems.



I think they've missed the point that it's an invitational tournament, so Setanta could invite whoever they wanted.

The point you are missing is that we are midway in the competition and you can't just invite a new team in mid stream!

[Dodge]

We all know its not a new club lads. New owners maybe, but thats it. Stupid pedantic point scoring as usual from the Northern clubs

I guess Setanta won't bother with another competition, as its clearly more hassle than its worth to some

[Not Brazil]

Tell us again why Linfield didn't play Derry City in the 1st game last season. This is the second time they've pulled out of playing Derry City in this years competition. The last time it had to cost Derry City the best part of £50000. linfield have done nothing but try to undermine Satanta since it started. Every year they had a different complaint. It works for them with the IFA, but others should tell them were to get off.

What fixture did Linfield FC not fulfil against Derry City in last years competition?

What fixture against Derry City did they pull out of earlier in this years competition?

I think you'll find that Linfield FC won the inaugural Setanta Cup, reached another final, and only failed to reach the last four on one occassion (last year) - hardly undermining it.;)

PS. Have you paid the money you stole from us yet?

[Sam_Heggy]

There's still a Setanta Cup? :eek:

[brendy_éire]

The point you are missing is that we are midway in the competition and you can't just invite a new team in mid stream!

But they can. Setanta could invite the Danish national team along if they wanted.

Tiktok idea could work, but is it in the rules? (can't seem to find them anywhere) Granted, Setanta can change them to make it work.

The point is, Linfield have been dying to get out the Setanta since it started.
First they complained that they had to play mid-week matches, so games were switched to the weekend. Then they complained that weekend games affected their IL games. Seriously, what they want us to do?

And let's not forgot about the whole shenanigans with switching the first match of the current competition to Windsor from the Brandy, using the excuse of some minor Orange parade in Castlerock. It meant we didn't get our massive gate, which mightn't have helped much in the big picture, but could have at least paid the players a little bit.
If Linfield don't play this match it'll cost us the guts of £50k.

[micls]

They're dead right.

Why would they agree to play a reformed club that stole money off them in the same competition?

[Mr_Parker]

We all know its not a new club lads. New owners maybe, but thats it. Stupid pedantic point scoring as usual from the Northern clubs


When did Wellvan sell "Derry City" to the new company?



I guess Setanta won't bother with another competition, as its clearly more hassle than its worth to some

It is not the northern clubs that have brought this all to a head. Derry owe clubs money and then this happens.

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=129865

Hardly inspiring confidence in the competition is it when the FAI do this is it?

[Mr_Parker]

But they can. Setanta could invite the Danish national team along if they wanted.

Tiktok idea could work, but is it in the rules? (can't seem to find them anywhere) Granted, Setanta can change them to make it work.
Sorry to blow your theory out of the water but Setanta don't run the competition. :rolleyes:

[CSFShels]

Not a hope Derry should be in this. Well played Linfield.

[micls]

If Linfield don't play this match it'll cost us the guts of £50k.

And that's no in any way they're problem. i would hope your new board wasn't budgetting on playing in a competition they didnt qualify for and therefore wont miss the money they never had.

Come on brendy. Would you play a team that robbed you, liquidated and then reformed have way through the competition?

Setanta have clear rules about players being registered etc so saying they could just parachute people in mid-competition is rubbish. They also can't change theyre rules mid competition as all clubs and Setanta sign participation agreements for a certain competition

[tiktok]

We all know its not a new club lads. New owners maybe, but thats it. Stupid pedantic point scoring as usual from the Northern clubs

I guess Setanta won't bother with another competition, as its clearly more hassle than its worth to some

It is an entirely new entity Dodge and it's not pedantry.
The FAI's own licencing rules are quite clear on it, the whole reason the process is in place is just to avoid scenarios whereby a club can run up a rake of debt, wind up while transferring ownership and start again with a clean slate.

To the supporters etc., it's the same club and that's as it should be, but there has to be a line drawn.

[ifk101]

With the amount of postponed games in NI recently, and the forthcoming fixture congestion faced by Linfield, I suppose this was a relatively easy decision for the club to make. After all winning their domestic league is their primarily goal each season and with the club's last league win coming in November, I think it's fair to say that they need to focus on learning how to win games again and can do without the distraction of a competition that's on its last legs.

[Not Brazil]

And let's not forgot about the whole shenanigans with switching the first match of the current competition to Windsor from the Brandy, using the excuse of some minor Orange parade in Castlerock. It meant we didn't get our massive gate, which mightn't have helped much in the big picture, but could have at least paid the players a little bit.
If Linfield don't play this match it'll cost us the guts of £50k.

Who switched the first game?

The draw was made on 28th July 2009

The very same day the fixtures and dates were announced.

http://www.linfieldfc.com/latestnews.asp?nid=4412

I don't know what your talking about ref: "minor orange Parade in Castlerock"?

The annual RBP "Black Saturday" Parade was held on 29th August 2009 in Castlerock.

Linfield FC were scheduled to play St Pats in Dublin on that date - the fixture didn't happen because of St Pat's European commitments at that time.

At no time were Linfield FC scheduled to play Derry City on 29th August 2009.

Did Derry City request at any time that the fixture scheduled for The Brandywell on 27th February 2010 be brought forward to 29th August 2009?

[passerrby]

If Linfield don't play this match it'll cost us the guts of £50k.

who would have though it somebody screwing derry out of money,

[brendy_éire]

Come on brendy. Would you play a team that robbed you, liquidated and then reformed have way through the competition?

But we're not a team that robbed Linfield. That's Linfield's reason for not playing us. We're a different club.
Linfields fans are demanding that we pay them for the ticket money from the match at Windsor. At the same time they're saying the won't play us because we're a completely different club.
They can't have it both ways. If we're a new club then Wellvan owes them the money, not us. If we're (sort of) the same club then we should pay them what we owe and they should play us in Setanta.


Who switched the first game?

Linfield asked for it to be switched. Not getting into this argument again. I didn't care that the match got moved, it just meant we'd be playing Linfield in February instead. No bother.

[Not Brazil]

Linfield asked for it to be switched

Let's be clear about this - are you claiming that Linfield were originally scheduled to play Derry City at the Brandywell on 29th August 2009?:confused:

[Not Brazil]

Linfields fans are demanding that we pay them for the ticket money from the match at Windsor.


That's shocking.:rolleyes:

[tiktok]

That's shocking.:rolleyes:

On this point brendy_éire is 100% correct.
Your issue is with Wellvan, not the new entity, new 'Derry City' don't owe you a penny.

But that's also the reason why the new entity shouldn't be allowed to just slip in and have a shot at potential prize money from a competition that the old club were participating in.

[Sam_Heggy]

So, if this game is not to be played and Derry had it factored into their 2010 budget, does this mean they will be cutting Kenny's spending power by around 30K to 40k?

Honestly it should never have come to this and it is proper order for Linfield to object.

The other question is, what if Cork do to the wire, what would happen to their results/place?

[osarusan]

They can't have it both ways. If we're a new club then Wellvan owes them the money, not us. If we're (sort of) the same club then we should pay them what we owe and they should play us in Setanta.

But you can't have it both ways either.

If you're the same club, then pay them what you owe them.

If you're a new club (which you are, it seems) then you have no right to be in the Setanta cup and shouldn't be moaning about losing 50 grand from the game not going ahead.

[Not Brazil]

On this point brendy_éire is 100% correct.
Your issue is with Wellvan, not the new entity, new 'Derry City' don't owe you a penny.

But that's also the reason why the new entity shouldn't be allowed to just slip in and have a shot at potential prize money from a competition that the old club were participating in.

Indeed.

Brendy fails to understand that Derry City cannot have it both ways either.

Linfield FC are owed circa £5,000 for tickets sold to Derry City FC for the game at Windsor.

It's a bit rich crying about losing out on £50,000.

[EalingGreen]

But we're not a team that robbed Linfield. That's Linfield's reason for not playing us. We're a different club.
Linfields fans are demanding that we pay them for the ticket money from the match at Windsor. At the same time they're saying the won't play us because we're a completely different club.
They can't have it both ways. If we're a new club then Wellvan owes them the money, not us. If we're (sort of) the same club then we should pay them what we owe and they should play us in Setanta.

It should be for DCFC to decide who they really are.

In which case, they cannot decide to be a "new" club for the purposes of avoiding their (old club's) debts, but still the same "old" club for the purposes of remaining in the Setanta or getting an LOI Licence* etc.

Of course, if they cannot/will not make their choice, one might expect the FAI to make the determination, but curiously enough, that body seems reluctant to decide, too.

Consequently, so long as this issue remains unresolved by them, then they must be vulnerable to other clubs/bodies deciding they've had enough of this carry-on and determining for themselves, which is only what LFC are doing.

It is a bit of a novel experience for me to be sticking up for the Bloos, but in alll honesty, the FAI's representatives on the Setanta Committee messed the Glens around so much last year over the venue for the Final etc, that they have brought the whole competition increasingly into disrepute as far as IL clubs are concerned.

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap"...


* - Or am I still not allowed to mention such matters? :rolleyes:

[MariborKev]

Love the way the usual heads are claiming this was factored into our 2010 budget.

Wrong, as usual.

However personally I don't think we should be in the competition. The DCFC that participated in the games in late 2009 no longer exists and as such Linfield and Pats should play off for the right to progress.

[MariborKev]

Linfield FC are owed circa £5,000 for tickets sold to Derry City FC for the game at Windsor.

Perhaps you might need to direct a few questions to your chairman as to the contact between the two clubs on this very issue.

[garyderry]

What fixture did Linfield FC not fulfil against Derry City in last years competition?

What fixture against Derry City did they pull out of earlier in this years competition?

I think you'll find that Linfield FC won the inaugural Setanta Cup, reached another final, and only failed to reach the last four on one occassion (last year) - hardly undermining it.;)

PS. Have you paid the money you stole from us yet?

Something ive always wondered in the whole ticket fiasco with Linfield,
If the money was stolen, as claimed by Linfield fans, then why is this an issue
of unpaid money and not an issue for the PSNI ?

If someone was selling tickets on behalf of Linfield FC in Derry, and failed to pass that money over (which was probably not a small sum as I was at the game and there was a fair few Derry fans), then surely that is straight forward theft? The money never belonged to anyone except Linfield, and it certainly has nothing to do with anyone running the current setup.

[Krstic]

It should be for DCFC to decide who they really are.

In which case, they cannot decide to be a "new" club for the purposes of avoiding their (old club's) debts, but still the same "old" club for the purposes of remaining in the Setanta or getting an LOI Licence* etc.

Of course, if they cannot/will not make their choice, one might expect the FAI to make the determination, but curiously enough, that body seems reluctant to decide, too.

Consequently, so long as this issue remains unresolved by them, then they must be vulnerable to other clubs/bodies deciding they've had enough of this carry-on and determining for themselves, which is only what LFC are doing.

It is a bit of a novel experience for me to be sticking up for the Bloos, but in alll honesty, the FAI's representatives on the Setanta Committee messed the Glens around so much last year over the venue for the Final etc, that they have brought the whole competition increasingly into disrepute as far as IL clubs are concerned.

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap"...


* - Or am I still not allowed to mention such matters? :rolleyes:


It's a bit of a Novel experience for me to agree with you EG, but you're spot on.

However Linfield cannot have it both ways either. They're saying that Derry Owe them money and they will not play a reformed team. Now we can only be one or the other. Either we are the Derry City who owe them money or we are new.

PS I think we should be turfed out of the competition.

[Mr A]

The Caveat is that the FAI seem to have made reaching settlements with Dungannon and Linfield prerequisite to getting a D1 license. It's a very small price to pay to avoid the A division in fairness.

[Ciaran W]

Looks like il never get to see rovers play in the setanta cup :( i was really looking forward to it

[Krstic]

The Caveat is that the FAI seem to have made reaching settlements with Dungannon and Linfield prerequisite to getting a D1 license. It's a very small price to pay to avoid the A division in fairness.

Totally irrelevant in regards to the Setanta.

Plus Dungannon have already been taken care of.

[micls]

Totally irrelevant in regards to the Setanta.

Plus Dungannon have already been taken care of.

No its not.

Derry fans are claiming they are either a new entity and owe linfield nothing or they are the same club and should be in the Setanta.

However, they are in fact a new club and still owe Linfield money(because the FAi are making them pay it in order to get a licence).

[EalingGreen]

It's a bit of a Novel experience for me to agree with you EG, but you're spot on.
Wow! :D


However Linfield cannot have it both ways either. They're saying that Derry Owe them money and they will not play a reformed team. Now we can only be one or the other. Either we are the Derry City who owe them money or we are new.

Hang on! LFC aren't the bad guys in all this (for once!). Had they got their £5k, or had the FAI taken responsibility for applying their rulebook consistently towards DCFC, LFC would not have been in a position to choose their own response.

Of course, ifk may have been correct earlier in suspecting that LFC's motives may be as much pragmatic as principled i.e. against the possibility of the competition folding anyhow, then LFC pulling out may ease their own domestic
fixture congestion etc.

But DCFC and the FAI have had more than enough time to sort LFC out before now. And considering it took Dungannon Swifts to issue two separate legal actions before they got a settlement from Derry (and then only a portion of what they were owed), why should LFC wait any longer, especially when no-one up in Derry will even tell them who they are dealing with - the "old" DCFC or the "new" DCFC?

Of course, maybe if DCFC were still in the IL, their fellow IL clubs might have been prepared to "cut them some more slack", or maybe even the IFA might have brokered some sort of compromise?

But as we are continually told by their fans etc, that holds no appeal for them...:rolleyes:

Oh well.

[Candystripe]

If Linfield refuse to play the return game then they shoud also withdraw their claim on the ticket money that Derry fans paid on the understanding that it was a two legged tournament between each club,IE: playing each other home and away.

Does anyone actually think any Derry fans would have bought tickets for the game at Windsor Pk if we had known that Linfield would refuse to play the return game.

Rub it up them the crying c**ts.

[Krstic]

No its not.

Derry fans are claiming they are either a new entity and owe linfield nothing or they are the same club and should be in the Setanta.

However, they are in fact a new club and still owe Linfield money(because the FAi are making them pay it in order to get a licence).

Yes but that is totally irrelevant in regards to Setanta.

[micls]

Yes but that is totally irrelevant in regards to Setanta.

I was responding to the claims of other derry fans that its one or another when it's not.

Linfield have the right not to play the game( cos its a different Derry City) and still be owed 5k.

Did the new company buy the name yet?

[MariborKev]

Why is everyone so sure Linfield have not been paid/that no agreement reached with them?

[Not Brazil]

Rub it up them the crying c**ts.

I think £50,000 is a lot more than £5,000 - at least, it was when I was at school.

£5,000 didn't rear Linfield FC.

If effectively stealing money (knowing that you had no way of paying for the tickets) rocks your boat, good for you.

Does anyone actually think any Derry fans would have been given tickets for the game at Windsor Pk if Linfield had known that Derry would refuse to pay for them?:eek:

[Krstic]

Wow! :D


But DCFC and the FAI have had more than enough time to sort LFC out before now. And considering it took Dungannon Swifts to issue two separate legal actions before they got a settlement from Derry (and then only a portion of what they were owed), why should LFC wait any longer, especially when no-one up in Derry will even tell them who they are dealing with - the "old" DCFC or the "new" DCFC?

l.

Then you went and spoiled it all by saying something completely untrue.

Dungannon didn't get a settlement from Derry City.

'Firends of Derry City' made an offer to Dungannon which their chairman Jarlath Faloon admitted was both welcomed and unexpected and settled any debt owed Wellvan (the comany they took to court).

Now i agree that linfield have every right to be agrieved at this 'Theft' and are in no way the bad guys, but they cannot argue that Derry City owes them money on one hand and then refuse a return fixture with the same Derry City by claiming that they are not now the same club. It has to be one or the other.

[EalingGreen]

The Caveat is that the FAI seem to have made reaching settlements with Dungannon and Linfield prerequisite to getting a D1 license. Interesting.

Why would the FAI be concerned to see the IFA sorted before accommodating DCFC? After all, they haven't always been so "neighbourly" in their dealings with us before...

Might it be because regardless of which League a club operates in, in order to be acceptable to FIFA/UEFA, a professional football club must also be a Member of its "home" Football Association?

And since for DCFC that actually means the IFA, then if the FAI are going to (ignore all their own rules and procedures in order to) get DCFC "back" in the LOI, they can't risk the new DCFC being rejected by the IFA (or the old DCFC's registration not being renewed, whichever it is)?

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive"

[micls]

Why is everyone so sure Linfield have not been paid/that no agreement reached with them?

Im not sure, simply basing it on the article.

I dont think it's relevant though tbh. Even if it has been paid (fair play if so) Linfield are still right to say it's not the same club and they shouldn't have to play them.