Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[Gather round]

Wont happen, cant happen i watched one of the italian games in a pub in belfast, NI and the Republic were playing on the same night the games were on opposite wall and the two sets of fans were standing back to back, all was grand i thought except [detail follows]...I dont think that sounds like a set of fans who are ready to unite

The two groups watching in the same pub sounds quite encouraging actually ;)


barring the obvious neighbourly rivalry, most NI fans don't have a problem with ROI or it's fans....the ones from the ROI that is...i think many feel aggrieved with ROI fans from NI who choose not to support NI, and then, ironically, use the lessened representation from the catholic side of the country as a stick to beat the NI setup with

I've no real problem with fans in NI supporting other teams, the South, England or whoever. It's the snide (and often dishonest) running down of the NI team and its fans that irritates.


throw into the mix the relatively recent "poaching" of the already small pool of potential NI players and you can probably see why the NI fans' attitude is somewhat touchy

Even this issue can be resolved, if not amicably then at least with a working compromise. The FAI and IFA could agree not to pick players from each others' area, as applied in the past; or at least that any player appearing in a full, U-21 or u-19 international, qualifier or friendly, after their 18th birthday, should be tied. If there's a will, there's a way.


They fear change, 1 Island = 1 Team and our prospects for qualification would be much greater. ;)

Stop stirring; change the record while you're at it; no they wouldn't. Do you think our existing points totals would be added together or something?


I'd be totally against any merger with the IFA. And, at the end of the day, FIFA/UEFA recent clarification on the eligibility rules means there's no reason to merge. What's theirs is ours, so to speak. :D

There was never any reason to merge.


Then again we dont want to end up like Belgium, look what different factions within a nation has done to that team.

They've been mediocre since 2002, but seemed to do OK before that- when I imagine the tensions within the team/ population as a whole were pretty similar to today.

[Not Brazil]

I simply explain that I support the team, that represents the nation, of which I am a citizen. Therefore my national team.
Thankfully, many accept that and regretfully, many don't.


I wholly accept (and respect) your Citizenship, and that you support the team that represents your Nation. I most certainly do not consider you a bigot.

You are right - unfortunately, some are unable to grasp that.

Conversely, some are unable to accept that many Northern Ireland fans want nothing to do with their team being gobbled up, either as part of a, singular, All Ireland team, or as part of a team representing the whole of the United Kingdom - and, indeed, are labeled bigots for having a pride and patriotism in where they are from.

As has been mentioned, the FAI effectively have the pick throughout the 32 Counties. Young players can make their choice.

Why, then, do you want to see an end to the Northern Ireland team - one which means a lot (just as much as the ROI to you guys) to many people in Northern Ireland?

Why do you want to give up your team?

Do you really want to give up all that identifies you - anthem, flag etc - just so as you could have Jonny Evans in central defence, and a couple of additional squad players?

You seen the comment about Lafferty earlier in the thread - I mean, how dare he be a passionate Northern Ireland fan, and "loyalist".:rolleyes: Not much respect there for one's identity.:rolleyes:

At this point in time, we've a squad of players very proud to wear our shirt - a "mixed" team, pulling together for one another. That makes me proud.

On the basis of what I watched against France, so have you - I was very impressed by the effort and determination of the ROI team. You should be proud too.

Get over the, singular, "All Ireland" team idea.

It's not happening.

Now, an All Ireland Premier League, is something that merits consideration at Club level - you'll find some support for that in Northern Ireland, providing the autonomy of the IFA at International level is ringfenced. Some are hostile to the idea because they see it as a threat to that autonomy. Remove the threat, and there's basis for worthy discussion.

[backstothewall]

I wholly accept (and respect) your Citizenship, and that you support the team that represents your Nation. I most certainly do not consider you a bigot.

You are right - unfortunately, some are unable to grasp that.

Things have improved, and continue to improve, but further improvement is still needed. I can't help but feel the unwillingness to move away from Windsor is a reflection of the knuckledraggers who don't want NI games to be welcoming to the nationalist community, but NI will get there with time.

If we take Nov 94 and Lennongate as the low points, things have come a long way, to the point where I am always pleased to see NI win, and flick over occassionally to see how they are doing. I will never do any more than that, as I am politically opposed to the existance of the state, but you can't say Northern Ireland without saying Ireland. If i am not being given any reason to feel hostile to them, I'll always be pleased to see a team of Irishmen do well. We all wear green


At this point in time, we've a squad of players very proud to wear our shirt - a "mixed" team, pulling together for one another. That makes me proud.


In the short and medium term, your 100% right.


Get over the, singular, "All Ireland" team idea.

It's not happening.

Now, an All Ireland Premier League, is something that merits consideration at Club level - you'll find some support for that in Northern Ireland, providing the autonomy of the IFA at International level is ringfenced. Some are hostile to the idea because they see it as a threat to that autonomy. Remove the threat, and there's basis for worthy discussion.

Again, I agree. All the points I made about having 1 stronger league, and how Serbia benefits from having such a strong domestic league to supplement their players playing aborad apply equally, whether there is 1, 2 or 10 national teams being fielded from Ireland.

And for me that is the big selling points. Linfield playing St. Pats on a Friday night live on TV3 and UTV simply isn't going to end partition. And as long as thats the case, the NI national team is quite secure in the absence of obvious popular support for change.

[Not Brazil]

Things have improved, and continue to improve, but further improvement is still needed. I can't help but feel the unwillingness to move away from Windsor is a reflection of the knuckledraggers who don't want NI games to be welcoming to the nationalist community, but NI will get there with time.


Nationalists frequent Windsor Park regularly - hell, half the Linfield team are "nationalists".

(Nationalist) supporters of many club sides regularly attend Windsor Park, and, indeed, contrary to myth, some "Nationalists" come to support Northern Ireland.

The decision to remain at Windsor Park has nothing to do with "knuckledraggers".

You see, you gave away the real reason why many "Nationalists" will never support Northern Ireland - they are, by definition, "politically opposed to the existance of the state". I appreciate that is difficult to support something that represents something you are oppossed.

I really don't get the "if they didn't play at Windsor, I might support them" mentality.

Be honest - the truth is many "Nationalists" simply don't support Northern Ireland for political reasons.

[lopez]

...it is essentially meant to be about cheering on the players from your own local area.
maybe that's a utopian view, but it's the way it should probably be.On the other hand, why not let people choose who the hell they want to follow in the first place? :rolleyes:

So just stirring then, as I thought.What's stirring? It's a legitimate quest to want Ireland unified both politically and with one team. That was what it was before 1922. Anyway, as EG said, this has all been done to death before, and as you rightly say, anyone from Northern Ireland can play for us.


Now, an All Ireland Premier League, is something that merits consideration at Club level - you'll find some support for that in Northern Ireland, providing the autonomy of the IFA at International level is ringfenced. Some are hostile to the idea because they see it as a threat to that autonomy. Remove the threat, and there's basis for worthy discussion.I think this should be sorted. The fact that the Setanta Cup has had very little trouble at games - certainly nothing that makes the news in Britain as both Dundalk v Linfield 1979 and Linfield v Donegal Celtic a decade later says we've come a long way. Perhaps crowds are small because it's not the place to go to vent one's bigoted spleen.

[Not Brazil]

I think this should be sorted. The fact that the Setanta Cup has had very little trouble at games - Perhaps crowds are small because it's not the place to go to vent one's bigoted spleen.

That's the big question mark I have about an All Ireland Premier League - the Setanta Cup has demonstrated that North v South clubs is not a great crowd puller.

In fact, generally, attendances are appalling.

[Gather round]

What's stirring? It's a legitimate quest to want Ireland unified both politically and with one team

Anyone who wants the NI team to be merged with the South's (ie, abolished) is stirring. It's perfectly simple.

PS loved that story about your junkie pal in the Stade de France toilets. Hope you didn't take Lopez junior into that den of iniquity :(

[ifk101]

That's the big question mark I have about an All Ireland Premier League - the Setanta Cup has demonstrated that North v South clubs is not a great crowd puller.

In fact, generally, attendances are appalling.

Club football doesn't draw a crowd either side of the border but fact is Irish League attendances are on a par with the League Of Ireland First Division. Indeed I go as far as to say, League Of Ireland First Division is on a par standard wise with the Irish League Premier Division. Ultimately the Setanta Cup is a failure because, bar Glentoran and Linfield, the Irish League teams have not been able to compete with their League of Ireland counterparts. This has allowed the League of Ireland teams to field weakened sides and still win their games against Irish League opposition. The competition is doomed to failure as League of Ireland football is a better product than what the Setanta Cup can offer.

[Not Brazil]

Club football doesn't draw a crowd either side of the border but fact is Irish League attendances are on a par with the League Of Ireland First Division. Indeed I go as far as to say, League Of Ireland First Division is on a par standard wise with the Irish League Premier Division. Ultimately the Setanta Cup is a failure because, bar Glentoran and Linfield, the Irish League teams have not been able to compete with their League of Ireland counterparts. This has allowed the League of Ireland teams to field weakened sides and still win their games against Irish League opposition. The competition is doomed to failure as League of Ireland football is a better product than what the Setanta Cup can offer.

Mostly fair comment - although IL teams play with weakened sides too in the Setanta. The competition is dying a death, unfortunately.

Not sure how the evidence of the Setanta Cup points towards a bright future, if only we had an All Ireland league?:confused:

[bennocelt]

Im sorry but that was our first away win against a team of that stature in recent history. Listen the campaigns speak for themselves. We have been at 1 major tournament in 15 years

Just curious - stats wise does this count as a win or a draw?

[bennocelt]

So what will we do with those Rangers and Linfield (to name but a few) fans who you don't seem to like?

Tell them thanks but no thanks when they come down to Dublin?

Actually where would we play? Dublin would be the obvious answer but I'm sure a lot of said fans wouldn't it taken away from Belfast

Too complicated for football basically, we don't have the maturity of rugby for it to work

different mind set of fans, totally different

[micls]

What would be in this for NI fans?

Reminds me of when people say sure all the Dublin teams should merge into one super Dublin team. Nonsense.

Why on earth would an NI fan or the IFA want to give up their team, which woould undoubtedly be swallowed up by the ROI fans and players and forgotten about in 20 years.

I don't see the rationale for it at all, unless you're simply a nationalist who sees it as a step to a UI.

[John83]

Just curious - stats wise does this count as a win or a draw?
Draw, I think.

[lopez]

That's the big question mark I have about an All Ireland Premier League - the Setanta Cup has demonstrated that North v South clubs is not a great crowd puller.

In fact, generally, attendances are appalling.
That's the competition itself. Is there anything at stake here? It's like the League Cup without a UEFA Cup place. An all-Ireland league, with Champions League and Europe Cup places would obviously be different. What the Setanta Cup has shown is that the trouble that blighted the All-Ireland cup in 1980 is no longer there.

Anyone who wants the NI team to be merged with the South's (ie, abolished) is stirring. It's perfectly simple.
Not at all. I would like to see an all-Ireland team the same way as I would like an all-Ireland state. That's not stirring. And as long as a. I'm not going to kill anyone or b. ethnic cleanse the area, I don't see why I should apologise.


PS loved that story about your junkie pal in the Stade de France toilets. Hope you didn't take Lopez junior into that den of iniquity :(It's the sign of the times. And a pretty sad one, IMO. No Juanito was not there. But then had he, I would have been more sober than I was, and not been in the toilet in the first place.

[Not Brazil]

That's the competition itself. Is there anything at stake here? It's like the League Cup without a UEFA Cup place. An all-Ireland league, with Champions League and Europe Cup places would obviously be different.

Therein, another problem.

Less European places for Clubs on this island.

[SeanDrog]

yes and no

Clearly there would be less places or the isalnd but for a team there would still only be the same number of places to compete for.

[lopez]

Therein, another problem.

Less European places for Clubs on this island.If the football improved there would be more.

[Schumi]

I think if we're merging with anyone it should be England , We''d be quids in then

Nuts to that, let's merge with Brazil, much better looking female fans and we can claim to have won the world cup five times.

[EalingGreen]

Let me see now.

First you wanted your own Association in 1921. Fair enough.

Then you wanted an Agreement with us that each Association would only pick players from its own Jurisdiction. Fair enough.

Next you decided unilaterally to tear up that Agreement and pick players from out jurisdiction, to give you what is effectively an all-Ireland team. OK, if you must.

And now you want to abolish our team entirely, just in order to be able to get your hands on the two or three players you (condescendingly) deem good enough for your team.

And even if that effectively means that Darron Gibson must not be prevented from playing for "his" country, but the likes of Kyle Lafferty must be prevented for playing for his country, you seem to see no contradiction in such a stance.

Nor in accusing us of being "bigoted" for not wanting a U-I team, even whilst it was you who broke up the old one.

Nor in accusing us of running a sectarian team, even though your most recent selection policy risks dragging us closer towards a de facto "Catholic/Nationalist Irish Team" and a "Protestant/Unionist Irish Team".

Nor in accusing our fans of being politically prejudiced, when every person from the "Six Counties" who chooses to support the ROI team is likely to be motivated at least partially by political reasons for his choice.

Nor in espousing a U-I team, whose raison d'etre must be that "we are all Irish", whilst at the same time accusing us of being a British team when it suits your case.

I've been hearing a lot about "fair play" in the Thierry Henry context this last couple of days, and despite succumbing to the temptation to join in all the "Hand of Gaul" jokes etc, I actually remain hugely sympathetic to the ROI fanbase, the great majority of whom are as sound a bunch of supporters as you'll find anywhere.

But i would appeal to those self-same fans to think on this. When you reflect on the pride and joy that you took from the game in Paris, has it never occurred to you that the direct effect of your other (oh-so-predictable) post-match call for a U-I team, would be to deprive me and thousands of other NI fans of equal pride and joy at Our Wee Country's efforts against England, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Slovenia, Poland etc etc etc?

Well I'm sorry. No amount of patronising guff about wishing NI well whenever we play etc makes up for me for the cant and hypocrisy emanating from that section of your support calling for the end of my team.

And if that makes me "bitter" and "small-minded", so be it - I would say exactly the same should some Englishman start spouting about the need for an All-UK team, on the basis that he wanted Johnny Evans to play Centre Back in succession to Rio Ferdinand at Wembley, in the way he seems destined to do at Old Trafford.

But hey, I suppose that would somehow make me a bigot as well...:rolleyes:

[backstothewall]

Nationalists frequent Windsor Park regularly - hell, half the Linfield team are "nationalists".

(Nationalist) supporters of many club sides regularly attend Windsor Park, and, indeed, contrary to myth, some "Nationalists" come to support Northern Ireland.

The decision to remain at Windsor Park has nothing to do with "knuckledraggers".

You see, you gave away the real reason why many "Nationalists" will never support Northern Ireland - they are, by definition, "politically opposed to the existance of the state". I appreciate that is difficult to support something that represents something you are oppossed.

I really don't get the "if they didn't play at Windsor, I might support them" mentality.

Be honest - the truth is many "Nationalists" simply don't support Northern Ireland for political reasons.

Of course. I didn't 'give away' anything. It was no secret. Thats why I quite clearly said


....things have come a long way, to the point where I am always pleased to see NI win, and flick over occassionally to see how they are doing. I will never do any more than that, as I am politically opposed to the existance of the state, but you can't say Northern Ireland without saying Ireland. If i am not being given any reason to feel hostile to them, I'll always be pleased to see a team of Irishmen do well. We all wear green

And personally I don't like Windsor, or the area it is in.

But thats getting distracted by nonsense and politics that has nothing to do with football, and if that happens this thread goes the same way as every other one we have ever done, and end up getting locked and closed, so i would politely suggest everyone wind their neck back in, and debate the issues rather than fighting 500 years of war all over again. I'm not interested in that.

The important issue here is the fact that one league would have bigger attendances, more money, it would be more appealing to TV, etc. More TV, and more people showing up, and eventually we have a high quality league of players who might get beyond the preliminary stages in Europe. And they can complement the international teams this island fields, however many there are.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And if that makes me "bitter" and "small-minded", so be it - I would say exactly the same should some Englishman start spouting about the need for an All-UK team, on the basis that he wanted Johnny Evans to play Centre Back in succession to Rio Ferdinand at Wembley, in the way he seems destined to do at Old Trafford.

But hey, I suppose that would somehow make me a bigot as well...:rolleyes:

Fair enough EG. Though your lot can't have their cake and eat it. Look forward to a GB/Ugly K.team at the earliest opportunity, complete with Evans as centre-back.
The rest are mainly rubbish though. But when our players retire, we're not far behind you....

So Finals of any description are a long long way off. Not just now, but for the next decade.
It's a shame bigots on both sides undermine a U-I team, to diminish the chances of qualification. Still you'll always have Johnny Evans.....

[micls]

Fair enough EG. Though your lot can't have their cake and eat it. Look forward to a GB/Ugly K.team at the earliest opportunity, complete with Evans as centre-back.
The rest are mainly rubbish though. But when our players retire, we're not far behind you....

So Finals of any description are a long long way off. Not just now, but for the next decade.
It's a shame bigots on both sides undermine a U-I team, to diminish the chances of qualification. Still you'll always have Johnny Evans.....

What on earth is bigotted about not wanting a UI team?

And we'l ignore the irony of you calling others bigots in a post where you're childish enough to use the term 'ugly k'

[Not Brazil]

Fair enough EG. Though your lot can't have their cake and eat it. Look forward to a GB/Ugly K.team at the earliest opportunity, complete with Evans as centre-back.
The rest are mainly rubbish though. But when our players retire, we're not far behind you....

So Finals of any description are a long long way off. Not just now, but for the next decade.
It's a shame bigots on both sides undermine a U-I team, to diminish the chances of qualification. Still you'll always have Johnny Evans.....

You seem to insist on missing the point.

Northern Ireland fans are oppossed to seeing our team disappear, for it to form part of ANY "All" Whatever - be that Ireland, or UK team.

That is not a bigoted viewpoint - it is the viewpoint of fans who support their country, just as passionately and fervently as you do yours.

If the price of seeing one or two of our players qualify is the diasppearance of our team, that's a price that won't be paid.

Maybe Bohs and Shams should merge, in an attempt to get a Dublin Club to the Champions League Group stages?:eek:

What's more, in the event of there ever being a singular international team on this island, I'm quite sure we'll have your support in upholding the right of any Northern Irish born player to elect to play for either England, Scotland, or Wales over "Ireland".;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

What's more, in the event of there ever being a singular international team on this island, I'm quite sure we'll have your support in upholding the right of any Northern Irish born player to elect to play for either England, Scotland, or Wales over "Ireland".;)

So you'd agree with those people who wanted a 'London' team or Yorkshire or Cork team then, heh?
If unionists didn't want to play for an all-Irish team, have no problem playing for some other British team. If they love the place so much though, you'd think they'd actually want to live there....

[-lamb-]

So you'd agree with those people who wanted a 'London' team or Yorkshire or Cork team then, heh?
If unionists didn't want to play for an all-Irish team, have no problem playing for some other British team. If they love the place so much though, you'd think they'd actually want to live there....
is it just me, or does much of this post make no sense?

[Not Brazil]

The important issue here is the fact that one league would have bigger attendances, more money, it would be more appealing to TV, etc. More TV, and more people showing up, and eventually we have a high quality league of players who might get beyond the preliminary stages in Europe. And they can complement the international teams this island fields, however many there are.

It's not a "fact", it's an opinion, laced with speculation.

In a 12 team, All Ireland Premier League, how many would be in it from Northern Ireland?

We've already learnt from a poster earlier in the thread that, outside of Linfield and Glentoran, IL Clubs are on a par with your current 1st Division.

[Not Brazil]

So you'd agree with those people who wanted a 'London' team or Yorkshire or Cork team then, heh?
If unionists didn't want to play for an all-Irish team, have no problem playing for some other British team. If they love the place so much though, you'd think they'd actually want to live there....

WTF?:confused:

[EalingGreen]

Re. "Back to Walsall"
On the one hand you state: "I will never do any more than that [take a passing interest in the NI team], as I am politically opposed to the existance of the state"
On the other, you talk about avoiding "...getting distracted by nonsense and politics that has nothing to do with football".
Can you not see the contradiction in those two viewpoints? Either the politics of the situation are important (hence your reluctance to adhere to your "home" team), or they aren't (in which case there is no longer any footballing reason reason why you cannot support your local team).

Oh well.



The important issue here is the fact that one league would have bigger attendances, more money,Where is your evidence that attendances would be bigger? Setanta Cup?



it would be more appealing to TV, etc. More TV, and more people showing up,Maybe, but unless all the other myriad problems are addressed, North and South, I'd guess that any advantage would be only marginal. Which might be enough to delay, even halt the overall downward trend in Irish domestic football witnessed over the last three decades or more.
I have to say, however, that the proposal for an AIL smacks to me as being merely the latest in a series of "magic bullets" to infect Irish club football (in the LOI, at least).
And if full-time football, summer football, the efforts to expand football outside traditional strongholds, the push for Europe etc haven't worked, why should this one?
Far better imo, for both Leagues to address the fundamental, structural problems which have held them back, then think about combining, so that 2 + 2 will equal 5, rather than 3.



...and eventually we have a high quality league of players who might get beyond the preliminary stages in Europe.
Ah yes, Europe, the "Answer to a Maiden's Prayer"...:rolleyes:
As I see it, unless or until both Associations can fairly claim that they have solidly addressed all their existing problems, and still the decline continues, why embark on such a radical overhaul of existing structures, all for the sake of playing 3 rounds in Europe, rather than two (LOI) or one (IL)?
Smacks of "baby" and "bathwater" to me.



And they can complement the international teams this island fields, however many there are.Nothing would please me more than to see clubs like Glentoran (even Linfield!) thriving in such a new League, such that they were producing talented new players for the NI team.
But even if that could be achieved, all that would mean is that such clubs could command slightly bigger transfer fees when (not "if") those players then go abroad, to a better club, for more money.
And if you need proof of that, you need only look at the likes of Cork (Doyle, Long, O'Donovan etc) or Derry City (McCourt, McGinn), who have seen their best players leave despite being all their best efforts.
Meanwhile, both clubs are in desperate straits, amongst other things from a want of proper regulation by the League/Association etc.
Or are you saying that if both those clubs were playing six or eight of their games each season against eg Linfield, Glens or Portadown, instead of eg Bray, Drogheda or Galway, that they would not have got themselves into the mess they have?

As I have said many times before, so long as the autonomy of the IFA and the independence of the NI team are preserved, I have no problem with an AIL in principle.

In fact, I could see how in time it could greatly improve domestic football throughout the island. But it will only do so if and when the administrators and officials in charge are fit to run such a League.

And before I would let the present lot (FAI or IFA) near such a major project, I would demand proof that they are up to it i.e. evidence that they can run their respective (small) projects properly.

For if you did let Delaney and Kennedy loose on an AIL, and they screwed that up, too, we would all be left with no AIL, no IL, no LOI and (most importantly) no credibility.

[EalingGreen]

is it just me, or does much of this post make no sense?Yes it is just you.

All of it makes no sense.

[backstothewall]

It's not a "fact", it's an opinion, laced with speculation.

In a 12 team, All Ireland Premier League, how many would be in it from Northern Ireland?

I would envisiage 4, if Belfast Celtic were to be re-formed.

Linfield, Derry, Glentoran and BC. Possibly with The likes of Crusaders, Portadown, Ballymena, Coleraine in a division below (which in fairness would probably be dominated by NI teams).

And you're quite right, it was an opinion. I'm big enough to admit when i'm wrong.


Re. "Back to Walsall"
On the one hand you state: "I will never do any more than that [take a passing interest in the NI team], as I am politically opposed to the existance of the state"
On the other, you talk about avoiding "...getting distracted by nonsense and politics that has nothing to do with football".
Can you not see the contradiction in those two viewpoints? Either the politics of the situation are important (hence your reluctance to adhere to your "home" team), or they aren't (in which case there is no longer any footballing reason reason why you cannot support your local team).

I see no contradition. I have my politics, which determine which national identity I have, and thus which international team I support. The politics determine which stadium I go to, but they are best left at the turnstile.

But if both national identities can work together to our mutual benefit, why are we still talking about it?

And if you read all I said, you will see I was actually complimenting NI on how well they have done in improving things.



Where is your evidence that attendances would be bigger? Setanta Cup?

It speculation, but they can't go much lower. I look at the attendances in similar leagues, Scotland (ecluding the old firm) being the obvious example. If Dundee can support 2 clubs, I see no reason why a city like Derry cannot support 1, Belfast 3, or Dublin 4.


Maybe, but unless all the other myriad problems are addressed, North and South, I'd guess that any advantage would be only marginal. Which might be enough to delay, even halt the overall downward trend in Irish domestic football witnessed over the last three decades or more.

Football is our favorite sport. With competative games, and comfortable facities, no reason why we should be Europes biggest country with such a poor league


I have to say, however, that the proposal for an AIL smacks to me as being merely the latest in a series of "magic bullets" to infect Irish club football (in the LOI, at least).
And if full-time football, summer football, the efforts to expand football outside traditional strongholds, the push for Europe etc haven't worked, why should this one?

Because its either that or give up. No one is saying its a magic bullet, but over time fans may go to the big clubs, the likes of Limavady & Larne go amatuer, and paying attendances there can increase. I know that Larne and Limavady fans won't be keen on amatuer football, but Omagh Town fans would love to have it.


Far better imo, for both Leagues to address the fundamental, structural problems which have held them back, then think about combining, so that 2 + 2 will equal 5, rather than 3.

There is merit in that, all I would suggest is a long term plan, for both leagues, rather than lurching from one crisis to the next



Ah yes, Europe, the "Answer to a Maiden's Prayer"...:rolleyes:
As I see it, unless or until both Associations can fairly claim that they have solidly addressed all their existing problems, and still the decline continues, why embark on such a radical overhaul of existing structures, all for the sake of playing 3 rounds in Europe, rather than two (LOI) or one (IL)?
Smacks of "baby" and "bathwater" to me.

Its not Europe for Europes sake, No one will ever win anything. But European football would increse the number of players capable of complimenting the players we have playing abroad in the international squads.


Nothing would please me more than to see clubs like Glentoran (even Linfield!) thriving in such a new League, such that they were producing talented new players for the NI team.
But even if that could be achieved, all that would mean is that such clubs could command slightly bigger transfer fees when (not "if") those players then go abroad, to a better club, for more money.
And if you need proof of that, you need only look at the likes of Cork (Doyle, Long, O'Donovan etc) or Derry City (McCourt, McGinn), who have seen their best players leave despite being all their best efforts.
Meanwhile, both clubs are in desperate straits, amongst other things from a want of proper regulation by the League/Association etc.

What can I say, players go on to bigger and better things. thats football


Or are you saying that if both those clubs were playing six or eight of their games each season against eg Linfield, Glens or Portadown, instead of eg Bray, Drogheda or Galway, that they would not have got themselves into the mess they have?

it would be bound to have helped. All teams in Ireland are very badly run. But full houses would have to help


In fact, I could see how in time it could greatly improve domestic football throughout the island. But it will only do so if and when the administrators and officials in charge are fit to run such a League.

And before I would let the present lot (FAI or IFA) near such a major project, I would demand proof that they are up to it i.e. evidence that they can run their respective (small) projects properly.

For if you did let Delaney and Kennedy loose on an AIL, and they screwed that up, too, we would all be left with no AIL, no IL, no LOI and (most importantly) no credibility.

Amen to that

[-lamb-]

why would larne go amateur, or want to? i should point out larne were never relegated on the pitch and have 2 senior cup finals and a few semis under their belts in the last 7 years.
what about the likes of distillery, dungannon, newry and institute? do they go amateur as well or is there space in your 2 leagues for them?
can derry city play in the same league as linfield etc? according to other posts on this forum and others there might be trouble (rolls eyes).
and belfast celtic to come back and straight into a top ail??
coleraine, crues, ballymena and the ports all in a second division? behind who in a top league? (i think you previously mentioned c'ville down there too, not to mention you would probably turf glenavon in there).
so basically you picked 2 of the biggest teams on the whole island, plus another who say they still can't play with the first 2 and some historical society thats not even a football club to fill the NI spaces in a fantasy AIL?

i think you've been on the funny pills tbh.

[SkStu]

wow - this thread has turned to muck awful fast...

not surprising given the original post.

[Not Brazil]

I would envisiage 4, if Belfast Celtic were to be re-formed.

Linfield, Derry, Glentoran and BC. Possibly with The likes of Crusaders, Portadown, Ballymena, Coleraine in a division below (which in fairness would probably be dominated by NI teams).


Belfast Celtic aren't going to be re-formed.

There already is a "Celtic" Club, based in West Belfast, playing in the IL.

Quite apart from anything else, why should a Club spring up out of nowhere, to take it's place at the top table - that's insulting to every other Club on the island.:rolleyes:

So basically, we're down to two IL Clubs - Linfield and Glentoran - in an AI Premier League...Derry City are a LOI Club.

So you think that the effective addition of Linfield and Glentoran to the current top tier in the LOI is going to be the saviour of Club football on this island?:eek:

Considering AI leagues outwith a "Premier" league is a complete non-starter.

How would a mid table clash, in a second tier, between say Institute and Waterford, benefit either Club?:confused:

[stiffler]

Is the All ireland league for rugby working? if so, can this be used as a framework for the all ireland football league?

Perhaps it can be organised similar to the way the conference league was organised, into 2 sections north and south, and then play offs.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm. If it's all so 'offensive' to our unionist 'friends', why even come on here? It's not as if we can even reciprocate on your equivalent, such is the collective paranoia on there. Although entirely typical.

You should listen to Back to Walsall, but if not....
If you want to continue in your own spiral of low achievement in both club & representative football fine.

Normally, we wouldnt be bothered, but recent events and our own cycle shortly reaching a relative low it means neither team will be going near finals for a decade or so;which a combined team could do something to counter.

It'll just be a question of who reaches the relative bottom first......

[co. down green]

Jesus lads, not another thread about this!

As far as i'm concerned the 'international' team arguement was sorted when the eligibility issue was sorted.

[Not Brazil]

Jesus lads, not another thread about this!

As far as i'm concerned the 'international' team arguement was sorted when the eligibility issue was sorted.

Absolutely correct.

[Not Brazil]

Hmm. If it's all so 'offensive' to our unionist 'friends', why even come on here?

Err...maybe because Northern Ireland fans (not exclusively Unionist) might have an opinion about their team disappearing.:rolleyes:

[Greenbod]

Err...maybe because Northern Ireland fans (not exclusively Unionist) might have an opinion about their team disappearing.:rolleyes:

Why would anyone be worried about that!!;)

[stiffler]

Err...maybe because Northern Ireland fans (not exclusively Unionist) might have an opinion about their team disappearing.:rolleyes:

By your same (twisted) logic the Republic of Ireland fans should be worried about their team 'disappearing' too.

Your argument holds no standing whatsoever.

[Not Brazil]

By your same (twisted) logic the Republic of Ireland fans should be worried about their team 'disappearing' too.

Your argument holds no standing whatsoever.

:D

"Twisted logic"

You guys like the Rugby analogy - how's about a British & Irish team - sure we'd rule the world.

Go on then, enlighten me as to what's in it for Northern Ireland fans.:rolleyes:

[galwayjames]

Quite apart from anything else, why should a Club spring up out of nowhere, to take it's place at the top table - that's insulting to every other Club on the island.:rolleyes:

Tell that to Sporting Fingal :rolleyes:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Err...maybe because Northern Ireland fans (not exclusively Unionist) might have an opinion about their team disappearing.:rolleyes:

Should we be flattered that we could somehow effect this?
You lot really are paranoid! ;) Still we'll welcome you 'aboard' when it happens!


Anyway , somehow Delaney & Kennedy are hardly likely to ever consult us on this. Though If FIFA were to insist on this it would probably be the only good thing they ever did.....

[ArdeeBhoy]

You guys like the Rugby analogy - how's about a British & Irish team - sure we'd rule the world.

Ah the Lions. Hmm. You lot even support them since they changed their name??

[Not Brazil]

. Though If FIFA were to insist on this it would probably be the only good thing they ever did.....

More likely an All United Kingdom team - if some within FIFA get their way.

No thanks.

[stiffler]

:D

"Twisted logic"

Go on then, enlighten me as to what's in it for Northern Ireland fans.:rolleyes:


Your the one using that as a reason for not wanting it, not I. I myself am neither for or against one team in this island at this stage. By de facto, we already have this situation with Gibson, Wilson et al available for the Republic.

It seems a lot of northern ireland fans have little man syndrome!

[Not Brazil]

Ah the Lions. Hmm. You lot even support them since they changed their name??

Absolutely.

[Not Brazil]

By de facto, we already have this situation with Gibson, Wilson et al available for the Republic.


Exactly...so let it go.:rolleyes:

[stiffler]

Exactly...so let it go.:rolleyes:


Troll

[ArdeeBhoy]

More likely an All United Kingdom team - if some within FIFA get their way.

Well it would be quite funny given the amount of gurning about their British 'identity', I've always encountered from large sections of your fanbase. Though to be fair, not most of the people on here.

If it happens, don't say we didn't offer....
;)