France V Ireland - Wednesday, 18th November 2009 - World Cup 2010 Playoff Second Leg

[jebus]

Givens.......6.5
O'Shea......7.5
Dunne.......9
St Ledger ..8
Kilbane......7
Lawrence...9
Whelan......8
Andrews....8
Duff..........8
Keane.......9
Doyle........8

Subs
Gibson.......6.5
McShane....6
McGeady....6

[Park_Lane]

I would have done what Henry did. It is natural to seek to push the rules. At that stage of the game what are the odds? Get caught - take your yellow and big deal. Get away with it and your in the World Cup finals. I know what I'd do.


True the ref should of seen it and blow it up, but I can't help but be lef with a sick feeling after watching the way he handled the ball.
The game is getting worse at the top level it all about getting away with it if the ref doesnt see it them fair game.

[old git]

the stakes are too high for this crap to happen..

yep agree big time ref / linesman / 4th officall are there to see big decisions like this offside 2 players linesman looking straight at it :confused: no flag and they all missed 2 hand ball by henry

from fifa.com rules of the game 2009/2010
decisions of the referee "the decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play, including wheter or not a goal has been scored and the results of a match are final. the referee may only change a decision on realising that it is incorrect, or at his discretion, on the advice of assistant referee or fourth officall, provided he has not restarted play or terminated match " so what the fluck was fourth offical doing when ball was handled and i'm sure he must have seen replays before match restarted
so he could have also advised referee..:mad: probally clutching at straws here .. wonder what fifa will have to say on issue their website has match report which states an angled ball played back by henry for gallas to head in about sums it all up .

[Park_Lane]

It's hardly a mystery. They called him a cheating French c**t. But he's a cheating French c**t going to South Africa.

Yeah therefore what they said on camera wasnt their true sentiments on the issue!

[jebus]

True the ref should of seen it and blow it up, but I can't help but be lef with a sick feeling after watching the way he handled the ball.
The game is getting worse at the top level it all about getting away with it if the ref doesnt see it them fair game.

The games been that way for years, it's just that we're on the end of it this time

[Park_Lane]

I'd say they didn't want to be shown up as hypocrites because I'm sure I could pick out games that both have played in where their team has benefited from dubious decisions and they danced around the place after the goal

Maybe, like I said the game is becomming very unattractive with all this cheating be it in champions league, premiership, or international.

[jebus]

Maybe, like I said the game is becomming very unattractive with all this cheating be it in champions league, premiership, or international.

I agree. I've said in real life and on this forum in the past few weeks/months that I'm sick to the teeth of football

Things like the engrained cheating and the acceptance from fans (until it goes against you) are part of why I'm sick of it

[LFC in Exile]

Yeah therefore what they said on camera wasnt their true sentiments on the issue!

You can't say c**t on RTE unless its Sex and the City.

But these are professionals who know the suss.

But of course you're sick. We're all sick. But that's football and why we love it so much.

[Metrostars]

Why even bother if we accept cheating? Where's the point of putting in a hard working honest effort if it is taken away by a combination of cheating and corruption/ineptness of the officials? And it is not good enough to simply say well if we did it we would accept it. Point is that we did not score off 2 handballs and 2 offsides.

I wonder sometimes about this sport. I love it to death but there is so much cheating and corruption that I feel I need some time away from it.

Robbie Keane says it right:


“Of course it is an easy decision to do the seedings,” Keane said. “They’re probably all clapping their hands, Platini sitting there on the phone to Sepp Blatter, texting each other, delighted with the result, with France (getting through).”

“Of course, over the two legs we were certainly the better team. I can’t recall them having many chances tonight. We caused them many problems. But at the end of the day they’re through,” Keane said. “We can keep our heads up, in the manner that we played. As captain I am very proud to be part of this team, I’m just gutted we didn’t make it to the end.”

Keane played many times for Tottenham against Henry when the Frenchman played for Arsenal until joining Barcelona two years ago, and was seething that Henry used his hand to guide the ball into his feet and then onto Gallas.

“Devastated to be honest with you. The way we played we deserved to win the game, there’s no question about that,” Keane said. “We saw it (on the replay). We knew anyway. When you see the reaction of goalkeeper Shay (Given), he’s two yards away from it. You don’t get a reaction like that (otherwise). He almost caught it and walked into the net with it.”

Still, Keane felt he should have won the match, missing a great chance late in the second half when France goalkeeper Hugo Lloris forced him wide and Keane pushed the ball out of touch as he tried to get the ball under control.

“My touch let me down, I should have taken it round the ‘keeper. I’m absolutely devastated,” Keane said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ap-ireland-keane&prov=ap&type=lgns

[jebus]

Cry me a river, if the roles had been reversed and Robbie had handled and crossed for Dunne to head home and put us on the plane we'd all be still in the pub laughing about it

The hypocrisy of football fans really knows no end

And Keane attempted to use his hand a number of times in the game so he can do one as well.
Seething because Henry is a better football and cheater no doubt

[Park_Lane]

Why even bother if we accept cheating? Where's the point of putting in a hard working honest effort if it is taken away by a combination of cheating and corruption/ineptness of the officials? And it is not good enough to simply say well if we did it we would accept it. Point is that we did not score off 2 handballs and 2 offsides.

I wonder sometimes about this sport. I love it to death but there is so much cheating and corruption that I feel I need some time away from it.

Robbie Keane says it right:



http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ap-ireland-keane&prov=ap&type=lgns

Its the best irish performance I've seen since holland at lansdowne road. the boys done us proud tonight. Bring on the euros we WILL qualify.

[irishultra]

They won't care but on this site I said that the Irish team lacked personality :mad: Oh dear how wrong I was. They did more than play with 'heart' they actually played. France scored two lucky goals we scored a goal with very good play. That was unbelievable. The sense of pride knowing that all of europe was probably looking out for that result was a great feeling. I can speak French so I can tell you that French forums are very much sympathetic of Ireland. Thats the kind of people they are.
I think nobody and I mean nobody would have said anything if we had scored like that, probably because being a small country we feel that odds are stacked against us so we deserve the luck of the green.

Anyway 14 legends and the rest of the squad legends as well because that was a squad effort.

Bring on Euro 2012.

[old git]

Why even bother if we accept cheating? Where's the point of putting in a hard working honest effort if it is taken away by a combination of cheating and corruption/ineptness of the officials? And it is not good enough to simply say well if we did it we would accept it. Point is that we did not score off 2 handballs and 2 offsides.

I wonder sometimes about this sport. I love it to death but there is so much cheating and corruption that I feel I need some time away from it.

Robbie Keane says it right:



http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ap-ireland-keane&prov=ap&type=lgns

and see fifa.com match report and READ FIFA'S DESCRIPTION OF TURNING POINT BELOW !! if they cannot even mention handball incident in such a high profile game what intrest do they have in stamping out the cheats

France 1-1 Republic of Ireland (first leg 1-0)
Goals: William Gallas 103 (France); Robbie Keane 32 (Republic of Ireland)

The story of the game
Hosts France were kept completely quiet in the first half by an Ireland team burning with passion, conviction and the desire to battle for every ball. Robbie Keane’s strike not long after the half-hour mark was just reward for the efforts the visitors had put in and it took heroics from France goalkeeper Hugo Lloris to limit the damage to one goal. Les Bleus made themselves a little more visible after the break but remained under pressure from Irish assaults, meaning the tie had to be resolved in extra-time, during which William Gallas equalised to send his team through to their fourth consecutive finals.

The key moment
After 180 minutes of a hard-fought contest, the fate of both teams came down to two dramatic periods of extra-time. The match, and the tie, remained in the balance until the very last second, and when the final whistle was blown the disappointed Irish could hold their heads up high.

The man of the match
France have long been looking for a successor to Fabien Barthez and they have found the perfect candidate in Hugo Lloris. In this game, as in the opening leg, the Lyon No1 bolstered his burgeoning reputation with a string of top-class saves.

[Morbo]

Cry me a river, if the roles had been reversed and Robbie had handled and crossed for Dunne to head home and put us on the plane we'd all be still in the pub laughing about it

The hypocrisy of football fans really knows no end

And Keane attempted to use his hand a number of times in the game so he can do one as well.
Seething because Henry is a better football and cheater no doubt
3 things wrong with that goal, an offside and 2 handballs, somehow I doubt the officials would have missed it if the roles were reversed.

[Ciaran W]

Looks like a sleepless night

[irishultra]

Its the best irish performance I've seen since holland at lansdowne road. the boys done us proud tonight. Bring on the euros we WILL qualify.

Nah Holland was heart and luck, tonight was heart skill, determination and no luck. Best performance since spain in 2002.

[kingdom hoop]

I would have done what Henry did. It is natural to seek to push the rules.


You mean you've been playing the game for 20-odd years and it's your natural instinct to do something you've been trained not to do all that time?

Something so basic as not handling the ball?

After 20 years of training you still naturally handle the ball when it comes to you? Good Lord, I train for gaelic football half the year and still know not to stretch my hand to control the ball if it comes near me.


Bear in mind handling the ball is not integral to the game. Falling is integral: you get tackled, or 'touched' as it may be, and you fall. But you should never handle the ball. That's the skill-set of the game, and of all people Henry is skilled and experienced enough to know that. Simply, it is NEVER done. Unless you're a conniving, cheating 'person'. It is, in my opinion, actually entirely unnatural when you play.







The question then is whether to blame the "player" or the "game" - my anguish is too blinding to think clearly on that point at the moment.

[jebus]

3 things wrong with that goal, an offside and 2 handballs, somehow I doubt the officials would have missed it if the roles were reversed.

Linesman maybe but the ref had a fine game

And I'd but the linesman missing it down to his apparent ineptness more than anything else

[irishultra]

Its the best irish performance I've seen since holland at lansdowne road. the boys done us proud tonight. Bring on the euros we WILL qualify.

Nah Holland was heart and luck, tonight was heart skill, determination and no luck. Best performance since spain in 2002.

BTW DUFF DIVED AGAINST SPAIN IN WORLD CUP 2002

[weldoninhio]

Why even bother if we accept cheating? Where's the point of putting in a hard working honest effort if it is taken away by a combination of cheating and corruption/ineptness of the officials? And it is not good enough to simply say well if we did it we would accept it. Point is that we did not score off 2 handballs and 2 offsides.

I wonder sometimes about this sport. I love it to death but there is so much cheating and corruption that I feel I need some time away from it.

Robbie Keane says it right:



http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ap-ireland-keane&prov=ap&type=lgns

Good, honest, Robbie, If any of his 3 (that i can recall) attempted handballs hadn't been caught would he have put it out of play so he didn't gain any unfair advantage??

Did he run to the ref during the Georgia game to tell him that the ball didn't hit the Georgian players arm?? Or did he take the peno and the 3 points??

[LFC in Exile]

Can you name me a professional sport where cheating doesn't happen or where it is dealt with effectively?

Why do we put up with it? Because we have no choice.

As I said earlier, FIFA could deal with it tomorrow if they had the balls. Look at the Eduardo nonsense. It could be fixed but they don't want it. And professionals and managers know these things are swings and roundabouts. All those "foreign" divers like Gerrard, Owen, Rooney etc

As they say in Limerick - doll didey :)

[irishultra]

Given-few relatively shaky moments but he was impeccable it has to be said. this was the kind of performance that makes a world class keeper. any goaly can make shot stopping saves its catching the ball from an inswinging cross that makes keepers great 9

o'shea-7.5
dunne-9
st.ledger-9.5
kilbane-9.5

lawrence-8.5
whelan-7.5
andrews-8.5
duff-8.5
keane-9
doyle-7

gibson-6
mcshane-6(what a block from gourcuff)
mcgeady-6 looked bright but awful cross

[Dodge]

Good, honest, Robbie, If any of his 3 (that i can recall) attempted handballs hadn't been caught would he have put it out of play so he didn't gain any unfair advantage??

Did he run to the ref during the Georgia game to tell him that the ball didn't hit the Georgian players arm?? Or did he take the peno and the 3 points??

Spot on. France actually got a free from a Keane handball tonight.

No around me tonight branded him a disgrace

Apparently FIFA made Damian Duff miss a one on one too. Scum!

[kingdom hoop]

Can you name me a professional sport where cheating doesn't happen or where it is dealt with effectively?


Yes, golf and snooker are two examples.

[peadar1987]

How can all you people say you would have done the same as Henry in that situation, or that it is even slightly justified? It's not. I can safely say that I would never cheat like that in a game of football. Never have, never will. I feel disgusted whenever a player dives in the green of Ireland, or the colours of Bray or Stoke. Cheating is completely unacceptable no matter who does it. I felt dirty for days after Ricardo Fuller dived to win a penalty against Hull last season, and get very annoyed whenever Gary McCabe tries to con the ref for Bray.

I'm shocked at the amount of people out there who think that cheating in any context is okay.

[Ciaran W]

Absolutly gutted :( its only sinking in now

[LFC in Exile]

You mean you've been playing the game for 20-odd years and it's your natural instinct to do something you've been trained not to do all that time?

Something so basic as not handling the ball?

After 20 years of training you still naturally handle the ball when it comes to you? Good Lord, I train for gaelic football half the year and still know not to stretch my hand to control the ball if it comes near me.


Bear in mind handling the ball is not integral to the game. Falling is integral: you get tackled, or 'touched' as it may be, and you fall. But you should never handle the ball. That's the skill-set of the game, and of all people Henry is skilled and experienced enough to know that. Simply, it is NEVER done. Unless you're a conniving, cheating 'person'. It is, in my opinion, actually entirely unnatural when you play.


Yes - if the ball was running away from me in the box I would stick out a hand "naturally" to get an advantage. And on my own goal line my hand would automatically go to stop the ball (especially in last 15 minutes) to stop a goal. If caught take the chance of a penno.

[Dodge]

Yes, golf and snooker are two examples.

Most currupt sport in the world. There's a reaosn why plenty of bookmakers don't accept bets on certain tournaments

[Dodge]

I'm shocked at the amount of people out there who think that cheating in any context is okay.

Maybe they're just sick of losing...

[jebus]

How can all you people say you would have done the same as Henry in that situation, or that it is even slightly justified? It's not. I can safely say that I would never cheat like that in a game of football. Never have, never will. I feel disgusted whenever a player dives in the green of Ireland, or the colours of Bray or Stoke. Cheating is completely unacceptable no matter who does it. I felt dirty for days after Ricardo Fuller dived to win a penalty against Hull last season, and get very annoyed whenever Gary McCabe tries to con the ref for Bray.

I'm shocked at the amount of people out there who think that cheating in any context is okay.

If all around you are pigs then there's nothing left but to stick your snout in the slop

You might not cheat, but some of the Irish players would and the majority of the Irish fans would accept it, while the majority of them would probably think it's hilarious

[irishultra]

i have to admit im hating the platini rubbish from english club supporting friends on facebook.

[LFC in Exile]

I can safely say that I would never cheat like that in a game of football. Never have, never will.

So, you've never called for a corner when it was a goal kick? Or looked for a throw in for your team when it really came off an opponent.

If not then I salute you - but I don't believe it and doubt you ever played football.

[jebus]

Maybe they're just sick of losing...

Actually has anyone commented in this thread that if Ireland hadn't blown three clear cut chances to wrap it up in the 90 mins that we wouldn't be having this conversation?

Doesn't change the fact Henry cheated I know but this idea that we had them beat if he hadn't needs to be addressed as well

It's our fault we're out because we didn't take our chances and have ended up as the plucky losers yet again. There's only so often that can happened before you become perennial losers to be honest. Ireland at the moment remind of the Wolves team of the 90s in that sense

[peadar1987]

So, you've never called for a corner when it was a goal kick? Or looked for a throw in for your team when it really came off an opponent.

If not then I salute you - but I don't believe it and doubt you ever played football.

No, I try to play the game how it is meant to be played. That's the way I was brought up. If the ball touched me last for a corner, I'll tell the ref. And I don't think it's too much to expect for others to do the same.

[irishultra]

ah come on i get your cheating point, in fact i agree but 'plucky losers' doesn't give that team justice. we went above france for that 90 minutes. we played like champions.

[Dodge]

Actually has anyone commented in this thread that if Ireland hadn't blown three clear cut chances to wrap it up in the 90 mins that we wouldn't be having this conversation?


Kinda....





Apparently FIFA made Damian Duff miss a one on one too. Scum!

[kingdom hoop]

Most currupt sport in the world. There's a reaosn why plenty of bookmakers don't accept bets on certain tournaments

Fair enough, I was thinking of it in a different context. Maybe the outcome of snooker matches is pre-arranged. (Probably due to the limited prizemoney available amongst a limited field? -that's for another day anyway.)


But the context I was thinking of it is was during a match. That no-one would ever try to guide a ball into a pocket with their hand, and in fact, the players usually call "fouls" on themselves. Different context but similar principle: the integrity and spirit not to take advantage of a mistake you made.

[LFC in Exile]

Trappatoni is a genuis. He is my hero.

They players are fantastic for the effort they put in.

We rode our luck the whole way - but of course the harder we try the luckier we got. We got breaks - especially the Georgia penalty when we took it and said 'oh well isn't football a funny old game'.

That's all she wrote about this one. It's better we spend our money on holidays in Ireland anyway. :)

[Dodge]

But Snooker players have taken beta blockers to relax, thats cheating.


its a fact of life. where there's a competition, someone will try and cheat to win

[kingdom hoop]

Actually has anyone commented in this thread that if Ireland hadn't blown three clear cut chances to wrap it up in the 90 mins that we wouldn't be having this conversation?

Doesn't change the fact Henry cheated I know but this idea that we had them beat if he hadn't needs to be addressed as well



We're waiting for you to open a "Blew Three Clear-Cut Chances" thread. :)

[SkStu]

But Snooker players have taken beta blockers to relax, thats cheating.


its a fact of life. where there's a competition, someone will try and cheat to win

big f*cking deal. Just because cheating happens, it doesnt make it right and it doesnt mean we cant moan about it when it affects us.

The fact that you and the Insane Limerick Posse arent so devoid of emotion is just weird and detached.

[jebus]

ah come on i get your cheating point, in fact i agree but 'plucky losers' doesn't give that team justice. we went above france for that 90 minutes. we played like champions.

But yet we're not, we're plucky losers yet again

We get to give the boys a good cheer but at the end of the day we've done nothing, yet again

It's about the only point I ever agreed with Roy Keane on when it comes to football

[LFC in Exile]

Fair enough, I was thinking of it in a different context. Maybe the outcome of snooker matches is pre-arranged. (Probably due to the limited prizemoney available amongst a limited field? -that's for another day anyway.)


But the context I was thinking of it is was during a match. That no-one would ever try to guide a ball into a pocket with their hand, and in fact, the players usually call "fouls" on themselves. Different context but similar principle: the integrity and spirit not to take advantage of a mistake you made.

Well... I said sport. Snooker is only a pastime - but that's a whole other argument.

Golf is apparently unspoiled - but only (in my opinion) because the cameras are everywhere and a player can be disqualified or penalised AFTER their round. Unlike football. My arguments that FIFA could do that would seem to stack up. But with golf when the cameras aren't around I've played with enough lads trying playing crap on the last 3 or 4 holes to keep their handicap to have any opinion that golf is this wonderful bastion of fair play. :)

[jebus]

big f*cking deal. Just because cheating happens, it doesnt make it right and it doesnt mean we cant moan about it when it affects us.

The fact that you and the Insane Limerick Posse arent so devoid of emotion is just weird and detached.

Mate you're spitting fury about a bunch of grown men kicking a bag of air about a pitch trying to out-cheat each other

Just to give you some perspective on who's being weird and who's not

[topia]

You mean you've been playing the game for 20-odd years and it's your natural instinct to do something you've been trained not to do all that time?

Something so basic as not handling the ball?

After 20 years of training you still naturally handle the ball when it comes to you? Good Lord, I train for gaelic football half the year and still know not to stretch my hand to control the ball if it comes near me.


Bear in mind handling the ball is not integral to the game. Falling is integral: you get tackled, or 'touched' as it may be, and you fall. But you should never handle the ball. That's the skill-set of the game, and of all people Henry is skilled and experienced enough to know that. Simply, it is NEVER done. Unless you're a conniving, cheating 'person'. It is, in my opinion, actually entirely unnatural when you play.







The question then is whether to blame the "player" or the "game" - my anguish is too blinding to think clearly on that point at the moment.


Before i read this post i thought to myself ok its still cheating but he instinctively put out a hand but this post made me think and when playing no i actually never instictively stick out a hand, if anything i take my hands as far away as possible and try to control the ball with another part of my anatomy... not handballing is your instinct when playing football

[SkStu]

Mate you're spitting fury about a bunch of grown men kicking a bag of air about a pitch trying to out-cheat each other

Just to give you some perspective on who's being weird and who's not

im disappointed that my country wont be at the World Cup next year and thats weird?

Sure...

[irishultra]

ok can i ask did anyone care that duff dived in 2002 to get ireland a penalty? if ireland had scored in a similar vein nobody would say anything

[jebus]

im disappointed that my country wont be at the World Cup next year and thats weird?

Sure...

Being disappointed is one thing, using bad puns like the Insane Limerick Posse is another matter entirely

[jebus]

Also if you follow this link you'll hear Henry admit it was a handball, that he admitted it on the pitch but that he's not the ref, he can't change a thing or decide what should be given or not

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8367418.st (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8367418.stm)

Hopefully he gets hung for this :rolleyes:

[SkStu]

sorry if it upset you, it was just a light hearted attempt at categorising you and LFCwhatever together.

Its natural to be upset after tonights outcome. To be so rational and lacking in emotion is kind of weird to me. Unless youre actually quite detached from the Irish team anyway which may be the case.