Don't mean to be negative....

[noddy102]

but how are we going to bring this tie to extra time or even win it on aggregate in Paris, when we haven't won a competitive away fixture against a decent side since.... since when again?

Absolutely gutted after last night.... didn't deserve to lose the game in the way we did. :(

[jebus]

We buck that trend

[zinedineontour]

but how are we going to bring this tie to extra time or even win it on aggregate in Paris, when we haven't won a competitive away fixture against a decent side since.... since when again?

Absolutely gutted after last night.... didn't deserve to lose the game in the way we did. :(

Stop being negative ! If we can get a goal in paris which I think we can then the french team will lose their bottle and the crowd will get on their backs. Far from over yet.

[OwlsFan]

Stop being negative ! If we can get a goal in paris which I think we can then the french team will lose their bottle and the crowd will get on their backs. Far from over yet.

For once in my life I am positive about an away game for the following reasons:

(a) The French will think they have it wrapped up.

(b) We have played better away from home in many of our games than at home.

(c) It is time to break that away hoodoo.

[noddy102]

Stop being negative ! If we can get a goal in paris which I think we can then the french team will lose their bottle and the crowd will get on their backs. Far from over yet.

I'm being realistic, and if you analyse most of my other posts or even if you know who I am in real life, you'd understand that I'm very rarely EVER negative.

To win an away game against a team like France is asking an awful lot. I'll be there regardless singing my heart out and hoping and praying, but I'm just expressing my doubt, based on reality.

[jo84]

For once in my life I am positive about an away game for the following reasons:

(a) The French will think they have it wrapped up.

(b) We have played better away from home in many of our games than at home.

(c) It is time to break that away hoodoo.




Agreed. 100 per cent.

[shakermaker1982]

We will get chances in Paris but the players need to take them this time around.

I want us to go out and try and get an early goal. It's a big ask but this is our WC Final.

[jebus]

To win an away game against a team like France is asking an awful lot. I'll be there regardless singing my heart out and hoping and praying, but I'm just expressing my doubt, based on reality.

The reality is that France have won 4 drawn 2 lost 2 of their last 8 games at home, and that doesn't include Scotland beating them during the Euro campaign

[Noelys Guitar]

It really depends on how France approach the game. I thought I saw enough gaps last night between their back four and their midfield to give us a chance (albeit through Guinness goggles). We have to take the game to them. Stop sending high balls into the box for their keeper to pick off at will. Play more 1-2's around their box and create real chances. Allow Duff and McGeady to run at their defense and midfield. Duff lacked match fitness and I am hoping he will play a big game on Wednesday after playing yesterday. Lawerence plays his heart out but he lacks that bit of pace to get around the back of their defense. So I would play McGeady. 0-0 is of no use now. And I felt from early on in yesterdays game that we were playing for a draw. Never works for us. We might need to score 2 goals on Wednesday to have a realistic chance of getting through. If we start off the game the way we did against Bulgaria away then who knows. We will find out on Wednesday how good France really are. I'm not convinced they are a great side. And I really feel we can play a lot better than we did yesterday. Look back on our group games. Poor against Bulgaria at home. Excellent away. It seems that every second game we put in a big performance.

[noddy102]

The reality is that France have won 4 drawn 2 lost 2 of their last 8 games at home, and that doesn't include Scotland beating them during the Euro campaign

It would have been more appropriate to compare our chances to how Scotland fared a few years ago.

Both of the losses you refer to above were friendlies - all but meaningless, and as we all know a draw won't be enough.

Unless the 11 players on Wednesday muster up some magic, we are not going to beat France in Paris - simple as that.

[jebus]

No one likes losing friendlies at home, especially when the French public are waiting to pounce on you

I'd also wager that a friendly against Argentina is a lot more competitive than a qualifier against the Faroe Islands or even Lithuania and Austria (3 of the 4 wins) whilst their other victory came against Turkey in a friendly as well.

Romania went there and scored, that to me suggest we can go there and score, then it's open season on what can happen

[noddy102]

No one likes losing friendlies at home, especially when the French public are waiting to pounce on you

I'd also wager that a friendly against Argentina is a lot more competitive than a qualifier against the Faroe Islands or even Lithuania and Austria (3 of the 4 wins) whilst their other victory came against Turkey in a friendly as well.

Romania went there and scored, that to me suggest we can go there and score, then it's open season on what can happen

Jebus, you are starting to clutch at straws here...

Players ALWAYS have a different mentality towards friendlies than they do towards competitive games, which comes from their own attitude towards them, the relaxed nature of the games and the manager's tactics/choice of players. To simply look at results and say; 'ye they lost this one and that one', without knowing the circumstances of the games or who was playing is ridiculous.

You'll notice that in all their home qualifiers in the 2010 phase, they didn't concede more than one goal at home, and they only conceded 3 times in total.

If you are going to analyse the situation, you have to do so based on most current results and most relevant matches - not some friendlies we know very little about.

And as for the French public... they've been on Domenech's back since we played them last time.

[seanfhear]

We really have to score at least one goal preferably two goals.

Anyway why would anyone Irish want it to be easy:p

We will fight to the end but if any of us have ever to go into battle then

I would say that it would be better not to tell your men that they are beaten before the battle begins.

The ones that were up for the fight would dispose of you as a liability and they would be correct.

If you do not contemplate victory then run away.:D

[jebus]

I woudl argue that the French players would be more keyed up for testing themselves against Argentina than they would be against the Faroes

Also I'd argue that you criticise me for looking at the results and saying 'yeah well they lost this and that' without having watched the games and then you go and do the exact same to prove your negativity to be correct

Cause at the end of the day, unless you've just started watching football, I've never come across a fan that believes a 1-0 agg deficit to be the end of the world

[LeBleu]

(a) The French will think they have it wrapped up.

Wrong!

Henry and Domenech says after the game : "It's only the first half".

Yes we are very proud and snob but not a this point I hope ;)

[Noelys Guitar]

Good words from Trap
"We can score on Wednesday. If we play offensively, we can score a goal."

[Kildare Lad]

I agree with noddy on this one, while I'm all for being positive and believing we can beat the french in Paris, and fair play to everyone who keeps believing, but I just cant see it happening, unless as noddy has said, we muster up a bit of magic. A draw will no longer do us which I thought was our best hope of progressing (away goals), I just cant see us scoring twice out there and only conceding once.

In my opinion they didnt even turn it on last night, and perhaps they wont again out in paris, but its scary knowing that at any stage during the 90 minutes they can just up it a notch and outclass us completely. Last night the fact that they brought on Malouda just purely to waste time shows the amount of class they have in their squad. I'm not looking to change anyones opinion or to argue with people that we have or havn't got a chance, of course its not over till its over, but I just dont think we will be at WC2010.

[noddy102]

Last night the fact that they brought on Malouda just purely to waste time shows the amount of class they have in their squad.

That's another excellent point Kildare Lad.

They had an arsenal of attacking players at their disposal last night on the bench, and as you point out, only needed to bring on a single player in stoppage time to let the clock run down even more.

Comparatively, we expended our three substitutes, who are arguably our only three attacking substitutes we can realistically hope to change a game, although you could include Andy Keogh as a fourth.

[jmurphyc]

They are far better individually than us, as they proved last night. But we had the better chances, and if we can take just one of them in Paris, it could be enough. It's a hell of a task, but we can do it. If we can stay organised and keep cool we could beat them. Despite outclassing us for periods last night, they had no shape to their play or formation and you could see the disharmony in the side. At one point Evra had the ball and was openly bickering with a player for not coming back to take the ball off him. That shows that they can be rattled.

[Ciaran W]

Lets just go out there and play attacking,if we go and sit back we will eventually let in a goal like we do in every game so we might as well give us all a bit of entertainment

[jmurphyc]

Lets just go out there and play attacking,if we go and sit back we will eventually let in a goal like we do in every game so we might as well give us all a bit of entertainment

No. If we go out attacking too much in Paris, we'll get destroyed. That's not to say that we should defend deep. We just need to attempt to keep possession of the ball and try to probe their defence when the opportunity arises. Their defence isn't that great. We just didn't take the chances we created. If we can create opportunities like we did last night in Paris, we can win.

[rambler14]

If we have a referee Wednesday night like we did last night then there isn't a hope in hell in qualifying.

[Ciaran W]

Well theres no point in even talking about it because we will never play with an attacking team with trap in charge

[jmurphyc]

Well theres no point in even talking about it because we will never play with an attacking team with trap in charge

Why did you bring it up then?

[CF1989]

ireland are so bad

not a bit of flare at all in the side. when you have defenders like kilbane and st.ledger, trying to get to a world cup is pointless. its simply not going to happen. andrews and whelan offer nothing in midfield, duff lost it once he left chelsea. doyles an industrial player. a good worker, scores a goal once every so often for ireland but thats it really.

its not trapatoni's fault, the squad of players are very limited. no one wil hammer this side, but there not going to beat anyone decent. if france score its game over. because ireland wont score twice if they play for a week

[Noelys Guitar]

A night like this on Wednesday?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYeIlI3gutk&feature=related

[Riddickcule]

As someone mentioned the crowd will be on their backs if their doing poor,

Very true, those arrogant Parisians!

Wouldn't bet on it that they think they have it wrapped up, sure even Henry in his interview..

[Stuttgart88]

For once in my life I am positive about an away game for the following reasons:

(a) The French will think they have it wrapped up.

(b) We have played better away from home in many of our games than at home.

(c) It is time to break that away hoodoo.From my wholly subjective viewpoint that's how I see it too.

[Brian Boru]

We are still in with a shout. For all their posession they rarely truly threatened. Dunne predicted they'd have most of the posession during the week. No surprise. Two deflections made the difference, Anelkas went in and Lawrences didn't. That's life. Not winning a big competitive qualifier since Hampden 1987 is irrelevent. It's a playoff not a qualifier and if history is important then what about France in 1994 qualifiers. Just needed a point against Israel or Bulgaria both at home. They lost them both. Ginola and Cantona were never forgiven. They never played again. Ginola gave away the ball in the build up to Bulgaria's winner.

If we get in to them and play the long ball more often France are fragile. It's all to play for. I'm optimistic. I'm surprised we lost yesterday but roll on Wednesday.

[geysir]

Good words from Trap
"We can score on Wednesday. If we play offensively, we can score a goal."

I would prefer if it was translated as "when we will play offensively, we can score a goal."

[stojkovic]

if history is important then what about France in 1994 qualifiers. Just needed a point against Israel or Bulgaria both at home. They lost them both. Ginola and Cantona were never forgiven. They never played again. Ginola gave away the ball in the build up to Bulgaria's winner.


You are correct but the fact is that French football learned from this and went on to become World and European Champions with the same team excluding Ginola and Cantona. Who replaced those two ? Zidane and Djorkaeff !

[Ciaran W]

I didnt bring it up i was just agreeing with one of the other fellas who is right,sitting back will get us nowhere

[Stuttgart88]

Was the referee that bad? I didn't have that much cause for complaint. A few nothing fouls towards the opposition and one or two that should have gone our way. That always happens.

He was very lenient with Andrews. A nailed on yellow if ever there was one.

[OwlsFan]

Was the referee that bad? I didn't have that much cause for complaint. A few nothing fouls towards the opposition and one or two that should have gone our way. That always happens.

He was very lenient with Andrews. A nailed on yellow if ever there was one.


Yes, heard some criticism of the ref. Didn't notice anything myself. Some other ref might have given a peno for the Given challenge. Thought most of the fouls he gave against us were fouls. He did ok and I have no complaints there. Should have been a corner ok for Lawrence's shot but the linesman gave the goal kick.

[Trainee]

All the pressure is on france, so if we can the first goal, its game on, and with all this pressure, france could fall apart.

All is not lost, just have faith,

[Morbo]

Well theres no point in even talking about it because we will never play with an attacking team with trap in charge
In fairness we played with an attacking team against Italy when we went a goal down. Trap isn't an idiot, he knows he will have to gamble to give us a shot of getting back into it.

[Arnold Layne]

Forget it folks, Ireland are not going to win on Wednesday.

Don't get your hopes up.

[Morbo]

I don't think anyone expects Ireland to win but its not impossible, about a 10-1 shot i'd say, anyone 100% sure we won't win should bet everything on France progressing.

[Emmet7]

We generally don't score from open play against good teams except that Robbie Keane goal in Bari when Folan took out two defenders and put it on a plate for Keane.

I don't see us scoring from open play in Paris either. We don't have the craft or the guile up front or the players such as an Henry, Benzema or Anelka who can turn a game with a moment of brillance.

Doyle and Keane get through a mountain of work but they don't have the class or ability to produce something magical against good teams and defences like the French forwards.

So we are generally limited to scoring from setpieces. The French defence seems to have improved greatly throughout the campaign and coped easily with setpieces last night.

Our attacking Plan A seems to be to score from setpieces. We don't really have an attacking plan B and we are very limited with our options up front. We only had one or two setpieces last night and the French easily dealt with them. The French are technically superior to us and imo a better team than the Italians who were also technically superior to us. Against techically superior teams it's always going to be backs to the wall for most of the match which some people foolishly mistake for 'sitting back'.

You only have to compare the French left back with our left back to see their technical superiority on the ball and in defending and that's just in one area. All over the pitch, defence, midfield and attack they are to a man much better than us.

I thought Andrews and Whelan did brilliantly in the first half in stopping the French attacking from deep but they tired in the second half and others didn't help them much.

[Traps Cat]

Forget it folks, Ireland are not going to win on Wednesday.

Don't get your hopes up.



Thanks for your input Arnold. I belive foot.fr might be right up your street

[Emmet7]

I agree with Arnold. We were completely toothless in attacking last night and we will be again in Paris.

I'd hate to see the Keane-Doyle partnership start again as it is completely ineffectual and easily containable.

We need a more direct route and while I'd prefer to see Folan playing he is injured so Best might be the only alternative. It doesn't matter that he is not skillful. We just need to aim the ball for him and hope Robbie gets a couple of breaks. Playing it into Kevin Doyle's feet has produced no real chance of note in about 200 minutes of playing against the Italians and French and it won't produce anything in Paris either as all a defender has to do is put in a leg and clear the ball away.

It's much harder for defenders to play against a high ball and a big muscular forward than when the ball is played into feet. If we start with the same attacking format as we did last night, it's game over, ending in more than likely a 0 - 0 draw or maybe the French turning it on and scoring a couple of goals.

[Fizzer]

Jesus what game were you watching Emmet, it was all high ball up to Doyle, and he won a hell of a lot of them. To suggest dropping Doyle for Best is bloody daft, I wish we had eleven Doylers

[Emmet7]

Jesus what game were you watching Emmet, it was all high ball up to Doyle, and he won a hell of a lot of them. To suggest dropping Doyle for Best is bloody daft, I wish we had eleven Doylers

Doyle doesn't score against top international teams whether he is rusty or not match fit after injury. The partnership also doesn't deliver goals against top teams nor against average teams like Bulgaria or Montenegro for that matter.

If our forwards can't score against Bulgaria or Montenegro and not create one solid chance between them against Italy twice and France once then that partnership needs changing.

I like Doyle but his job is to score goals. He is not a target man, he's too small for that and his 'flick-ons' are unpredictable. Caleb Folan and Best are far far better target men. Asking Doyle to be target man is too much. Either leave him or Keane on and put on Best, but don't leave both on.

With Folan as target man in Bari we were able to produce 4 or 5 solid scoring chances, many falling to Keane, one of whom he scored and he could have scored a few more. It's blatently obvious the Doyle-Keane partnership is not producing chances. I can't think of one solid chance that came last night from Keane-Doyle interplay. I can't think of one chance in the two Italian games that came from Keane-Doyle interplay. They aren't scoring goals, but far worse they aren't coming with a mile of creating a chance to score goals.

It's just not working and if they start together again in Paris, you might as well hand the tie to the French.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Doyle doesn't score against top international teams whether he is rusty or not match fit after injury. The partnership also doesn't deliver goals against top teams nor against average teams like Bulgaria or Montenegro for that matter.

If our forwards can't score against Bulgaria or Montenegro and not create one solid chance between them against Italy twice and France once then that partnership needs changing.

I like Doyle but his job is to score goals. He is not a target man, he's too small for that and his 'flick-ons' are unpredictable. Caleb Folan and Best are far far better target men. Asking Doyle to be target man is too much. Either leave him or Keane on and put on Best, but don't leave both on.

With Folan as target man in Bari we were able to produce 4 or 5 solid scoring chances, many falling to Keane, one of whom he scored and he could have scored a few more. It's blatently obvious the Doyle-Keane partnership is not producing chances. I can't think of one solid chance that came last night from Keane-Doyle interplay. I can't think of one chance in the two Italian games that came from Keane-Doyle interplay. They aren't scoring goals, but far worse they aren't coming with a mile of creating a chance to score goals.

It's just not working and if they start together again in Paris, you might as well hand the tie to the French.

How many feckin goals has Leon Best scored?

[seanfhear]

Its a pity Folan is injured (he is isn't he) as I believe the French defenders would have a hard job counteracting him for headers and flick ons.
Mind you with flick ons there is an element of luck involved but there is nothing wrong with being lucky.

[Fizzer]

Doyle and Keane's jobs, in addition to scoring goals, are to be the first line of defence. Doyle is a defenders nightmare, he closes down their full-backs in possession makes it difficult for them to distribute ball effectively. He's strong and quick and holds the ball up well to bring in our wingers. (I agree Folan also does this well but he's injured and out so why are we talking about him?).

I'd certainly say Doyle's better in one-on-one situations than Best. I'd also prefer to see a ball drop at Doyler's feet in the box than Best's. It's not enough to say that Doyle shouldn't play because him and Keane didn't pass to each other enough. When possible, they passed to Duff or Lawrence and headed for the box. That's good enough for me. We had chances and didn't take them, on another night the result could have been different.

Doyle has to play Emmet, he's the best Irish talent to emerge in recent years and his committment and bravery is inspirational, the tackles he puts in bring me to my feet every time shouting encouragment at him. Best would be nowhere near as effective as him.

[Emmet7]

How many feckin goals has Leon Best scored?

Dumb response...

Did I say Best would score. Did I say Folan would score?

How did we score in Bari?

Doyle wasn't even on the fecking pitch when we scored. There's your answer.

Folan created at least 4 solid chances for Keane in the 60 minutes he was on the pitch. The Doyle-Keane parternship hasn't created one scoring chance in all our big games because good defenders find them easy to take care of.

It's clear Andy Reid won't be in the team for Wednesday night, that's a given so we can only work with what we have. And I can assure you the Doyle-Keane partnership in the current system will produce nothing on Wednesday night as it never does against good defences.

We can persist with the industrial Keane-Doyle partnership but it won't get us the goal/goals we need. They will be industrious as always, but they won't produce chances.

Does anyone remember now the long ball game Jack Charlton used to play. Does anyone remember how our great goals in that era came about? Houghtan's goal against England in 88, Quinn's goal against Holland in 90, Houghtan's goal against Italy in 94? They came as a result of long hoofs down the pitch. Even Ronnie Whelan's wonder goal in 1988 came from a long Rory Delap type throw-in.

Yet all those players and teams are legends now and we have great memories of that era.

In 10 years time we won't remember the wonderful industry of Kevin Doyle if we lose in Paris on Wednesday night. It's time to change around our attack to give us some chance and some penetration and muscle up front. Drop Keane behind a front two if need be.

I'd rather we got to South African by playing a different style than fail by satisfying the purists.

A two up front Keane-Doyle partnership will not produce chances in Paris as it hasn't in big games before and it's too easily containable by Champions League defenders.

[SwanVsDalton]

Dropping Doyle's probably not the answer. The teamplay changes drastically when he's gone, and since we'll probably looking to keep it tight, in the first half at least, he should stay.

Also I think it's overstating it to say we didn't create. Despite having less of the ball we had three nailed on sitters, Keane/Lawrence, O'Shea and Whelan. With far less of the ball, we created more clear cut chances and Lloris had to make two top notch saves.

It's not our creativity that really bothers me, it's our finishing. We have to take every opportunity that comes on Wednesday and we almost never do.

[Stuttgart88]

I was trying to think of an example to inspire us: Arsenal 1 Hull City 2 from last season. Total gulf in class, Arsenal went 1-0 up yet a goal from a corner and a good shot won it for Hull after Arsenal had been all fancy & elegant but made no further breakthrough. Sh1t like that happens in football and we're due it to happen to us at least once in my lifetime. What price would that have been in the bookies?

[PartySaint]

(b) We have played better away from home in many of our games than at home.



Where are people getting this from, just look at the qualifiers, We Drew with Italy at home and away, we Drew with Bulgaria home and away, we beat George and Cyprus home and away and we drew with Montenegro home and away, How is that better,

We have nothing to bring in that will make our attacking play any better, In the very unlikely event that we do score the French can just go up another gear or bring on class from the bench to turn it around,

We have NO chance