SARI Press Statement concerning Ndo Incident [Archive] - Page 3

osarusan

15/10/2009, 12:17 PM

If you read my posts earlier in the thread you'd see my opinion on this. As I said, I was in the stand that night. I heard nothing, and I mean that genuinely and seriously. I'm not just saying that in the same way some will say a controversial goal was clearly onside. Hand on my heart, I heard no sort of racist abuse that night, if you believe me or not that's up to you, but there's an awful lot of Rovers fans, the vast majority, saying the same thing.
Even going by the youtube clip you're still talking about a couple of seconds at a particular point at the game. There was no widespread or sustained racist abuse that night, it's ridiculous to claim otherwise.
I fully believe you when you say you didn't hear it (but there is a difference between saying "I didn't hear anything" and saying "I didn't hear anything and therefore nothing happened" - you haven't said this, but I think others have implied it). I don't think anybody has claimed there was widespread or sustained racist abuse. It was obviously just a few morons.

but the point is that it was obviously a few morons. I don't think we need to use the word 'alleged' any more. I personally think the youtube clip is pretty conclusive.

Like any organisation, Rovers board are not going to be made explain themselves for a few knackers who show up at a game. Instead they're probably more concerned with doing something about it practically, ensuring these people are not allowed back in had they been identified, or working with Garda� and matchday staff to try and identify the source of any such problems in the future and have the knackers reefed out and given a life ban.

It's not an either-or, is it? Why can't Rovers take 5 minutes to put a statement on the webise saying they condemn the noises made by a tiny number, and are committed to identifying them and banning them? The fact that it may be almost impossible to do that is almost beside the point.

Leeside Swagger

15/10/2009, 2:10 PM

He's doing some add on the radio now for european anti racisim week or something. Was on newstalk this morning. Nice timing!

Magicme

15/10/2009, 2:41 PM

Its FARE week. Football Against Racism Europe. Most clubs should be doing something around it and the half time entertainment last night was to mark it too. We will have kids at our game tomorrow night wearing the United Against Racism t-shirts and our team will be warming up in them too. We are involved in other events too.

It is so important that racism is stamped out in this country before it takes hold. The changing face of Ireland means that many more children from different "ethnic" backgrounds are growing up feeling Irish and will be playing for our clubs and hopefully our country in the future and they need to be welcomed and made to feel safe and respected like everyone else.

These campaigns can only do so much by raising awareness and thats why it is so important that we the fans and employees of clubs work to erradicate racism, report incidents and act on them.

It is part of the contract of entering Monaghan United's Kingspan Century Park that you will not engage in racism in any form and those found to be doing so will be ejected from the ground, reported to the gardai and face disciplinary proceedures. I am sure it is the same at all grounds and it is up to us in the crowd at games to ensure that these things are carried out.

Sorry for the longwinded rant but racism is the biggest thing that winds me up and I just cannot tolerate it.

dcfcsteve

15/10/2009, 2:53 PM

Not pathetic but simply the reality until proven otherwise...or does the norm of innocent until proven guilty not apply to SRFC ?

What level of proof are you looking for though ? :confused:

Signed confessions ?

dcfcsteve

15/10/2009, 2:54 PM

Every time I go against my better judgement and read this laughable thread, I get a mental image of Joey Ndo in a sari.

$hit, am i a racist?:eek:

Is he washing an elephant in your image of him....?

Mr A

15/10/2009, 3:27 PM

What the hell is racist about washing an elephant anyway? Surely elephant hygiene is important regardless of colour or creed?

dfx-

15/10/2009, 4:11 PM

Some elephants don't like it - they prefer private showering facilities

Acornvilla

15/10/2009, 4:49 PM

your momma dosent mind where i wash her :D she does get mixed up with the elephants quite a lot thou.. (sorry not aimed at anyone in particu7lar just came into my head and had to share it.):p

Ezeikial

15/10/2009, 5:01 PM

so then Bohs are "damned if they do and damned if they dont" in relation to the McGuinness incident. Thats basically what youre saying, right? Any chance you could take something as having been done simply in good faith? Of course not, it was big bad Bohs and their always evil and sinister ulterior motives... :rolleyes: i really despair about some peoples vendettas on this messageboard, i really do.

Or would you rather be another poster who attempts to ignore the issue at hand and drag this off topic just to get a dig in at Bohemians?

I didn't "drag" this off topic - I responded to MarinoBohs who took Bohs/McGuinness in as a comparison. I simply gave the reasons why I thought the two situations were not comparable, and suggested an alternative possibility that Bohs actions may have been motivated more by damage limitation rather then principle.

It seems to me that you may be too sensitive about what you perceive as "a dig" or "vendettas", as against considering an alternative view. Is this what some label "Bohs fans' obsession with anti-Bohs obsessions"?
.

by the way any opinion on the Rovers boards complete lack of comment on their issue?

Yes - but I am more concerned with racism and any racial abuse then the PR / point-scoring aspects of it.

I abhor any form of racism, from whatever quarter it comes, and I think that Shamrock Rovers board would have been well advised to have made a public comment about it long ago.

BohsPartisan

15/10/2009, 5:04 PM

What level of proof are you looking for though ? :confused:

Signed confessions ?

They'd probably claim they were forged or given under duress. ;)

dcfcsteve

15/10/2009, 9:30 PM

What the hell is racist about washing an elephant anyway? Surely elephant hygiene is important regardless of colour or creed?

*woooshhhh*

It's a joke re a recent terrace anthem criticised in Engl...

Never mind.

marinobohs

16/10/2009, 10:01 AM

It's somewhat pointless and a little disingenuous to be comparing the two situations.

It was clear to Bohs that the McGuinness incident was noted by the referee and therefore almost certain to be included in his report. Many have reasonably questioned if Bohs subsequent reactions was more got to do with damage limitation than a genuine anti-racist stance. The paltry one match club suspension did little to dispel this notion.

You also seem to have forgotten Pat Fenlons "it's part and parcel of the game, what can you do about it?" comment.

Firstly, Pat fenlon and the player apoligised directly after the game - the act was still wrong but those involved showed remorse.
My point was the differing reaction of the two boards to a racsist issue - hence using those two examples.
As posters here know it is impossible for you to acknowledge any good by Bohs so obviously they had to have an ulterior motive for doing the right thing :rolleyes:
Whether the club reaction/penalty was sufficent is a matter for opinion but the fact remains that there was a speedy club reaction in one case and none at all in the other (this was my point).
By your logic should the MK Hoops not have acted to "damage limitation" to the club (or avoid potential penalty ?)

marinobohs

16/10/2009, 10:18 AM

Not pathetic but simply the reality until proven otherwise...or does the norm of innocent until proven guilty not apply to SRFC ?

The evidence is there for all to see, thats the point. if you (like the board at MK Hoops) choose to ignore it then supporters can make up their own mind on the issue. Please please do not deny that it happened as that argument is just ridiculous given the facts.
Guilty when proven guilty and then there should be some sanction (STILL not looking for points deduction) otherwise the so called anti racism stance emanating from the bunker in Abbotstown is just hot air.

Calcio Jack

16/10/2009, 10:56 AM

The evidence is there for all to see, thats the point. if you (like the board at MK Hoops) choose to ignore it then supporters can make up their own mind on the issue. Please please do not deny that it happened as that argument is just ridiculous given the facts.
Guilty when proven guilty and then there should be some sanction (STILL not looking for points deduction) otherwise the so called anti racism stance emanating from the bunker in Abbotstown is just hot air.

I think it is very questionable to assert that the proof is there for all to see (hear) and just because you continue to assert that , itdoesn't make it a fact. I haven't denied that it happened , however I don't think that the so called "facts" that you refer to are enough to prove anything either way. If you want to assert that on the balence of probabilty that the incident occured then I can accept that you believe that, however you also need to accept that I think the opposite.

The one fact that is not in dispute is that no irrefutable evidence exists that the incident occured and hence even SARI referred to it as an 'alleged incident'.

dcfcsteve

16/10/2009, 10:59 AM

I think it is very questionable to assert that the proof is there for all to see (hear) and just because you continue to assert that , itdoesn't make it a fact. I haven't denied that it happened , however I don't think that the so called "facts" that you refer to are enough to prove anything either way. If you want to assert that on the balence of probabilty that the incident occured then I can accept that you believe that, however you also need to accept that I think the opposite.

The one fact that is not in dispute is that no irrefutable evidence exists that the incident occured and hence even SARI referred to it as an 'alleged incident'.

For the second time - what level of proof are you looking for here ?

marinobohs

16/10/2009, 11:00 AM

I think it is very questionable to assert that the proof is there for all to see (hear) and just because you continue to assert that , itdoesn't make it a fact. I haven't denied that it happened , however I don't think that the so called "facts" that you refer to are enough to prove anything either way. If you want to assert that on the balence of probabilty that the incident occured then I can accept that you believe that, however you also need to accept that I think the opposite.

The one fact that is not in dispute is that no irrefutable evidence exists that the incident occured and hence even SARI referred to it as an 'alleged incident'.

Pointless argument really as most have made up their own mind. As a matter of interest do you believe it happened and if it did what (if any action) should the club/FAI take about it ?

joeSoap

16/10/2009, 11:44 AM

I have only skimmed through this thread, and from what I can gather it mainly is arguing the punishment given to Jason McGuinness as opposed to what punishment should be given to Shamrock Rovers. Correct me if I',m wrong.

For me, Jason McGuinness is a professional footballer. An individual that is a supposed role model for young Bohs fans, and one who makes his living the same way that Joseph Ndo does. He racially abused, and was individually punished for his behaviour. And deservedly so. I thought Bohemians acted swiftly, and accordingly.

Shamrock Rovers, its players and officials, did not racially abuse Joseph Ndo. People, racists included, voluntarily support clubs, and it is impossible to stop them. You can try and identify these goons and ban them from the ground, but whats to stop them from from doing it in other ways, via internet, down the pub etc.

Jason McGuinness should have known better. His club acted upon it and sent out a message. IMO all Shamrock Rovers (or any club this happens to) can conceiveably do about this is send out a strong anti-racism message and try as best they can to identify the culprit(s). Fining them, or docking them points, or making them play behind closed doors would not be fair in my book. Racism is a crime, and Shamrock Rovers FC are not the Gardai. Perhaps McGuinness should have been criminally charged. Maybe this would send out a message.

Sheridan

16/10/2009, 11:53 AM

Nowhere near enough evidence to persuade the DPP to prosecute McGuinness (who would have been fined less than he was by Bohs and the FAI if convicted, in any case.)

Shamrock Rovers and SDCC, on the other hand, are guilty of permitting and failing to address racial abuse in the workplace, contrary to their own express policies, and could be sued for it.

Anyone who can't hear the vile racial abuse in that clip simply doesn't want to hear it (it's even clearer on the original stream, still available online.) The reason SARI described it as alleged abuse was that I did the same in the description, out of an abundance of ultra-objectivity.

Calcio Jack

16/10/2009, 1:04 PM

Pointless argument really as most have made up their own mind. As a matter of interest do you believe it happened and if it did what (if any action) should the club/FAI take about it ?

Agree we could go around forever in a circle on this.To answer your question I simply don't know whether it did or didn't happen, therefore no point in engaging in conjecture as to what the club or the FAI should do.

Calcio Jack

16/10/2009, 1:10 PM

[QUOTE=Sheridan;1251436]Nowhere near enough evidence to persuade the DPP to prosecute McGuinness (who would have been fined less than he was by Bohs and the FAI if convicted, in any case.)

Shamrock Rovers and SDCC, on the other hand, are guilty of permitting and failing to address racial abuse in the workplace, contrary to their own express policies, and could be sued for it

The above is complete fabrication on the basis that nothing has been proved. I think you should accept the norm that one is innocent until proven guilty. Would that be possible or are you operating on the basis that as you have declared something to be a fact it is a fact ?

Jicked

16/10/2009, 1:18 PM

For me, Jason McGuinness is a professional footballer. An individual that is a supposed role model for young Bohs fans, and one who makes his living the same way that Joseph Ndo does. He racially abused, and was individually punished for his behaviour. And deservedly so. I thought Bohemians acted swiftly, and accordingly.

Shamrock Rovers, its players and officials, did not racially abuse Joseph Ndo. People, racists included, voluntarily support clubs, and it is impossible to stop them. You can try and identify these goons and ban them from the ground, but whats to stop them from from doing it in other ways, via internet, down the pub etc.

That's exactly it. Demanding Rovers board publically react to the actions of a tiny, tiny minority doing a stupid act not in the name of the club is like expecting Derry's board to send out a press-release telling everyone how they dislike attacks on oppositions supporters buses by their clubs. Or Dundalk's board commenting on every stone throwing incident outside Oriel Park. When it's half of the Brandywell rioting mid-game yes there should be a public comment, or if Sean Connors starts fecking plastic coke bottles in to the visiting Bohs supporters again public action should be commented on. If its 5 or 6 gurriers who happen to be at the game then there's no need for public flagellation for the sake of rival fans trying to score points, rather they should do whats necessary to sort out those handful of scumbags.

Also, whats up with MK Rovers? Can't say I get that one...it's hard to keep up with all the cringeworthy new attempted nicknames Bohs are trying out this year, MSNRFC is my personal fave, way better than Wicklow FC which doesn't really work sadly.

Mr A

16/10/2009, 1:18 PM

At what stage can anything ever be proved, given the level of evidence you seem to require?

OneRedArmy

16/10/2009, 1:29 PM

Jicked

16/10/2009, 1:33 PM

I'm not passing the buck.
If the guys were identified I'm sure they'd be given life time bans. It doesn't seem that they were identified. So therefore Rovers should sit down with their fans, matchday staff, FAI matchday observer and Garda� and work out why they weren't identified and how to ensure they are identified and removed from the ground in future.
Rovers already gave a life ban to a guy earlier in the season who hit another fan during a game, using CCTV footage to find and identify him.

EnglishSource

16/10/2009, 1:37 PM

a tiny, tiny minority

I only hear one voice on that clip. One too many, but only one all the same.

marinobohs

16/10/2009, 1:43 PM

Agree we could go around forever in a circle on this.To answer your question I simply don't know whether it did or didn't happen, therefore no point in engaging in conjecture as to what the club or the FAI should do.

So lets all forget about it and move on ? Not exactly in line with the "no tolerance of racism" policy supposedly supported by the FAI. More of a "Racism is OK as long as we deny we heard it" policy for Tallaght ?

I disagree with those seeking points deductions (as I have said) but cannot agree that sweeping it under the carpet is acceptable either. The fact that SRFC did not repudiate racist comments before is quite probobly a factor in them reacurring (especially as the same player is involved).
Ironically had SRFC board come out and condemed those involved when it happened even the most rabit anti Hoop could not have made an issue of it (however hard we tried :)). Any damage to SRFC reputation caused is by the inactivity of the board on the matter, I agree no club can be responsible for a few morons but clubs have a responsibility to make clear their stance on the matter.

CMcC

16/10/2009, 1:43 PM

OneRedArmy

16/10/2009, 1:44 PM

Jicked

16/10/2009, 1:45 PM

I only hear one voice on that clip. One too many, but only one all the same.

Of course it's one too many, and the club should sort it out. But there's no need for a primetime investigation and the club chairman doing a weepy mea culpa on youtube on the back of a handful of people. Instead it should be sorted out to ensure that the few scumbags don't do it again, which presumably is what Rovers are doing rather than issuing a statement for the benefit of no-one but for Sheridan to pin up on his wall and crack one out over.

Sheridan

16/10/2009, 1:45 PM

The logical contortions here are getting ever more tortuous here, it's actually becoming embarrassing. Punishing clubs rather than individuals (especially where individuals can't be identified) is the norm. Google "racist chanting" "behind closed doors" or "fine" for confirmation.

Here's a random example from 2003 I grabbed in a cursory search.

The Macedonian F.A was fined �11,000 for the racist Chanting and abuse Black England players suffered, and the burning of a St George's Cross

Serbia & Montenegro have been fined �11,000 "for the racist conduct of its supporters" during last August's match against Wales and the under-21 side.

Uefa has also fined the Bosnian FA �13,000 for their fans' chanting racist abuse during the match against Norway on 6 September The thread was full of people complaining that the fines were unjustified.

It was from a white nationalist website.

marinobohs

16/10/2009, 1:49 PM

That's exactly it. Demanding Rovers board publically react to the actions of a tiny, tiny minority doing a stupid act not in the name of the club is like expecting Derry's board to send out a press-release telling everyone how they dislike attacks on oppositions supporters buses by their clubs. Or Dundalk's board commenting on every stone throwing incident outside Oriel Park. When it's half of the Brandywell rioting mid-game yes there should be a public comment, or if Sean Connors starts fecking plastic coke bottles in to the visiting Bohs supporters again public action should be commented on. If its 5 or 6 gurriers who happen to be at the game then there's no need for public flagellation for the sake of rival fans trying to score points, rather they should do whats necessary to sort out those handful of scumbags.

Also, whats up with MK Rovers? Can't say I get that one...it's hard to keep up with all the cringeworthy new attempted nicknames Bohs are trying out this year, MSNRFC is my personal fave, way better than Wicklow FC which doesn't really work sadly.

Incidents occuring INSIDE rounds are a slightly different matter to incidents happening OUTSIDE grounds (where I accept clubs have little or no control) - your example indicate even you see the difference.

RE MK Hoops it refers to the origins of the club - but cant expand here or will run foul of the Mods (again !). MNSRFC is from the Bohs message board I think and refers to alledged bias in favour of Wickla's finest on MNS. Havn't heard Wicklow FC used round Dalyer where is it from ?

EnglishSource

16/10/2009, 1:51 PM

The reason SARI described it as alleged abuse was that I did the same in the description, out of an abundance of ultra-objectivity.

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1245263&postcount=126

passinginterest

16/10/2009, 1:57 PM

Why are you so sure? Have SRFC said so? Nobody seems to know what SRFC's position is on racism inside their ground? Thats the whole point.

Actually their policy is very clearly stated here:
http://www.shamrockrovers.ie/about/rovers-against-racism-and-discrimination

Outside of this website the incident has not gotten any coverage in the national media, the wider public are oblivious. If Shamrock Rovers issued a statement the only possible effect I can see is to placate some of the louder protestors on here, other than that it would just be negative publicity for the league. If this was a serious incident of sustained or even clearly audible abuse it would have been widely reported by now (the national media have never needed an excuse for negative publicity on the league of Ireland), as it is there has been no official complaints made, by the allegedly abused player, his club, the FAI or the Garda�.
I'm sure Rovers will be reinforcing their stance on racism at the next game and will be continuing their work with show racism the red card, as everyone agrees racism is abhorrent in all it's forms. I still don't see how a statement from Rovers would help matters. I'm sure if the culprit/s can be identified they will be banned and when this happens I'm sure a press release will issue to show that the club is actively combating racism.

Jicked

16/10/2009, 1:59 PM

Why are you so sure? Have SRFC said so? Nobody seems to know what SRFC's position is on racism inside their ground? Thats the whole point.

You don't know their position on racism in the ground? See this is where it's clearly people wanting Rovers to look bad in the media. You do know Rovers position on racism in the ground, don't be stupid.

Like I said there was a serious enough fight/assault at a Rovers game in Tolka earlier this season, the club didn't have to go on the Joe Duffy show to decry the event, or ensure that it was sorted or beg for forgiveness. It's ridiculous to think that the actions of one scumbag was some sort of green light from the Board for such actions to take place at Rovers games. Instead the board went about sorting the problem. In that case the guy was identifiable through CCTV in surrounding areas outside the ground, and he was found and given a life ban.

As far as I know there was no CCTV in the stand that night against Bohs, no doubt partly because building work had only been finished the day before on the completed stand. In that case it'll be up to Rovers to have words with their garda�, stewards about how to stop this in future at the regular meetings Rovers board has with local police with whom they have an excellent relationship. Sorting out three or four scumbags doesn't require
a PR offensive or the club to be disbanded, despite what some Bohs, Sligo and Dublin City fans would like. It's not a widespread problem, and Rovers will take action to ensure that it doesn't become so, by working with Gardai, fans groups and matchday staff in identifying and ejecting for good anyone caught doing that.

Sheridan

16/10/2009, 2:11 PM

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1245263&postcount=126
You know, most people who made a post like that would want to destroy the evidence, not bring it to a wider audience.

I didn't isolate the incident in the game, someone else posted a timestamp of when it occurred and I went back to verify it and then captured and uploaded the evidence. I did it because it was the SECOND time this season that a racist incident involving Shamrock Rovers and Joseph Ndo had occurred, and the second time that an attempt had been made to sweep it under the carpet. Only this time there was evidence.

I have been campaigning against racism, sexism and all forms of prejudice my whole life. When an allegation of racism was made against a Dublin City player after a friendly against Bray, I personally brought it up with the club in my role with the supporters club (and was told that there was no evidence, so no action would be taken. Several witnesses heard the remark, and I'm happy to say that the perpetrator got a slap from the victim in return.)

PS: If that boycott of foot.ie only applies to posts which aren't completely idiotic, I'm happy to confirm that it's still in place.

SkStu

16/10/2009, 2:14 PM

1) Racist abuse of Darren Mansaram
2) Racist chanting about Joey Ndo
3) Racist abuse of Joey Ndo

no problems here folks!

EnglishSource

16/10/2009, 2:23 PM

1) Racist abuse of Darren Mansaram
2) Racist chanting about Joey Ndo
3) Racist abuse of Joey Ndo

no problems here folks!

When Rovers fans get jailed for attacking a pub based on the racial background of it's clientele, then you can take the moral high ground.

EnglishSource

16/10/2009, 2:25 PM

You know, most people who made a post like that would want to destroy the evidence, not bring it to a wider audience.

I didn't isolate the incident in the game, someone else posted a timestamp of when it occurred and I went back to verify it and then captured and uploaded the evidence. I did it because it was the SECOND time this season that a racist incident involving Shamrock Rovers and Joseph Ndo had occurred, and the second time that an attempt had been made to sweep it under the carpet. Only this time there was evidence.

I have been campaigning against racism, sexism and all forms of prejudice my whole life. When an allegation of racism was made against a Dublin City player after a friendly against Bray, I personally brought it up with the club in my role with the supporters club (and was told that there was no evidence, so no action would be taken. Several witnesses heard the remark, and I'm happy to say that the perpetrator got a slap from the victim in return.)

PS: If that boycott of foot.ie only applies to posts which aren't completely idiotic, I'm happy to confirm that it's still in place.

You know why you uploaded the clip to you tube, I know why you did it, and so does everyone else. You've a sick obsession with Shamrock Rovers thats been proved time and time again.

Sheridan

16/10/2009, 2:26 PM

Yeah, when Rovers fans get jailed for attacking a pub based on the racial background of its clientele and the supporters rally round and pay for the damage to be repaired instead of burying their heads in the sand and denying it ever happened...you can see where this is going.

Jicked

16/10/2009, 2:32 PM

1) Racist abuse of Darren Mansaram
2) Racist chanting about Joey Ndo
3) Racist abuse of Joey Ndo

no problems here folks!

Ugh, whats the point, I'm done with this thread.

Racist comments will be made in every ground in the country, sadly there's not a lot that can be done about that. It happens in Dalyer, it'll happen in Tallaght and will happen at every other ground. I've twice heard Harpal Singh being given racist abuse by fans of one particular club (not Rovers) but to say that it's part of a systemic racial problem at the club is laughable. When it's thousands, hundreds or even dozens involved in the abuse then you can expect clubs to be held responsible, when it's ignorant comments shouted by an unidentifiable knuckle dragging moron then it's not. I think I've made some pretty reasonable points throughout this thread, there's no point continuing if Sheridan is going to compare us to a Neo-Nazi group, fans of Bohs/Sligo/Sheridan are going to say Rovers don't have an anti-racism policy (despite dedicating pages in their programme and website to it, reading out an anti-racism message before kick-off and being involved in numerous anti-racism community programmes) and if you're now trying to suggest that there is a widespread and continous racism problem at Rovers.
That simply isn't the case, and you know it.

Like I said this is getting ridiculous so I'm not going to bother make the same sensible points again in the face of ridiculous comments/provocation from the usual parties.

marinobohs

16/10/2009, 2:36 PM

Actually their policy is very clearly stated here:
http://www.shamrockrovers.ie/about/rovers-against-racism-and-discrimination

Outside of this website the incident has not gotten any coverage in the national media, the wider public are oblivious. If Shamrock Rovers issued a statement the only possible effect I can see is to placate some of the louder protestors on here, other than that it would just be negative publicity for the league. If this was a serious incident of sustained or even clearly audible abuse it would have been widely reported by now (the national media have never needed an excuse for negative publicity on the league of Ireland), as it is there has been no official complaints made, by the allegedly abused player, his club, the FAI or the Garda�.
I'm sure Rovers will be reinforcing their stance on racism at the next game and will be continuing their work with show racism the red card, as everyone agrees racism is abhorrent in all it's forms. I still don't see how a statement from Rovers would help matters. I'm sure if the culprit/s can be identified they will be banned and when this happens I'm sure a press release will issue to show that the club is actively combating racism.

Perhaps you could let us know WHAT action(s) SRFC took after the racial abuse that occurred at Dalymount earlier in the season ? If your point is to be accepted then clearly the club would have taken some action after the earlier incident (it would benifit SRFC if they let people know they took action). unfortunately I suggest no such action occurred and the result of sweeping it under the carpet was the repitition that happened in Tallaght.
the fact is this is not a first offence and to date SRFC have done nothing to distance themselves from what happened (except of course for some fans to attemp deny it happened or blame fans of other clubs).

dcfcsteve

16/10/2009, 3:01 PM

Agree we could go around forever in a circle on this.To answer your question I simply don't know whether it did or didn't happen, therefore no point in engaging in conjecture as to what the club or the FAI should do.

So to help you decide whether or not it happened - for the third time, what level of proof do you want/need here ?

A time machine to teleport you back so you can stand in the crowd and hear/see if for yourself perhaps...? :confused:

marinobohs

16/10/2009, 3:02 PM

theneutral

16/10/2009, 3:52 PM

When Rovers fans get jailed for attacking a pub based on the racial background of it's clientele, then you can take the moral high ground.

Touch�!!!

Calcio Jack

16/10/2009, 5:31 PM

So to help you decide whether or not it happened - for the third time, what level of proof do you want/need here ?

A time machine to teleport you back so you can stand in the crowd and hear/see if for yourself perhaps...? :confused:

I thought I'd already answered this.... I've stated that until there is proof provided that is of a factual nature that can't be disputed then this is nothing but conjecture etc.... it's not up to me to decide what format proof should take rather it's up to those who are making claims that Ndo was abused to provide statements information etc. to the Gardai/authorities who can then decide if there is anything to investigate .... thus far IMO they have failed to do that in relation to the alleged incident.

SkStu

16/10/2009, 7:11 PM

When Rovers fans get jailed for attacking a pub based on the racial background of it's clientele, then you can take the moral high ground.

Touch�!!!

erm, not really, much as you would like to think so oh neutral one.

Again, the actions of a tiny minority (sound familiar) of the bohs fans that travelled that we, as a club and fanbase, were hauled over the coals for. The perpetrators got their punishment, and rightly so.

The vast majority of decent fans did a collection for the pub owner in conjunction with the club who, themselves, condemned this incident outright.

And just to add that religious or political affiliation is not a race.

Touche? Whatever.

Racist comments will be made in every ground in the country, sadly there's not a lot that can be done about that. It happens in Dalyer, it'll happen in Tallaght and will happen at every other ground. I've twice heard Harpal Singh being given racist abuse by fans of one particular club (not Rovers) but to say that it's part of a systemic racial problem at the club is laughable. When it's thousands, hundreds or even dozens involved in the abuse then you can expect clubs to be held responsible, when it's ignorant comments shouted by an unidentifiable knuckle dragging moron then it's not. I think I've made some pretty reasonable points throughout this thread, there's no point continuing if Sheridan is going to compare us to a Neo-Nazi group, fans of Bohs/Sligo/Sheridan are going to say Rovers don't have an anti-racism policy (despite dedicating pages in their programme and website to it, reading out an anti-racism message before kick-off and being involved in numerous anti-racism community programmes) and if you're now trying to suggest that there is a widespread and continous racism problem at Rovers.
That simply isn't the case, and you know it.

Like I said this is getting ridiculous so I'm not going to bother make the same sensible points again in the face of ridiculous comments/provocation from the usual parties.

i wont stand by and let Calcio Jack assert that there is no evidence of this incident occurring, or let Rovers fans imply that this was a one off that should be ignored. Regardless of the intelligence or sensibility of your posts.

dcfcsteve

17/10/2009, 12:24 AM

I thought I'd already answered this.... I've stated that until there is proof provided that is of a factual nature that can't be disputed then this is nothing but conjecture etc.... it's not up to me to decide what format proof should take rather it's up to those who are making claims that Ndo was abused to provide statements information etc. to the Gardai/authorities who can then decide if there is anything to investigate .... thus far IMO they have failed to do that in relation to the alleged incident.

Your'e still not answering the question though.

What "proof of a factual nature" can there be for something that a collection of individuals allegedly did/said in the past ? All there can be is witnesses and recordings of the said incident - both of which appear to exist.

Beyond those, what other type of factual proof are you expecting there to be ?

Calcio Jack

17/10/2009, 8:09 AM

Your'e still not answering the question though.

What "proof of a factual nature" can there be for something that a collection of individuals allegedly did/said in the past ? All there can be is witnesses and recordings of the said incident - both of which appear to exist.

Beyond those, what other type of factual proof are you expecting there to be ?

I have answered it perhaps not to your satifaction but that's my answer... I'm not an investigator a prosecutor or a judge... we have what's known as due process and factual proof provided by that process is what is required,it's not up to me or any other citizen to choose to bypass that process...albeit some here appear to think that's ok.