Return of the Roy?

[petef]

Cant see Kerr picking him to be honest.

[lopez]

Originally posted by PaulB
and how pray did you come to that conclusion ? Because he scored the goal agianst the Dutch ? Who created the goal, who was man of the match, selective fecken' memories you lot!

Who dragged us througha gainst cyprus. Who ran the show against portugal.

Get over your personal vendettas.
If you or Judas think that the Irish team was the one-man Judas show, you and him need to move into a sport more for your ego. Like boxing or golf or stock car racing where not one other person can impinge on your own ar*ehole inflated vanities. Football's a team sport, with the emphasis on TEAM. The sum of all it's parts even if they are all unequal.

If people can come out with ridiculous statements that it was Judas - and just Judas - that got us to Japan, then so can I claim it was Trigger - and only Trigger - that got us there by not missing that shot, unlike the missed penalty in Bucharest that was one of the differences between a place in France or a play-off defeat to Belgium. I didn't blame Judas for that mistake at the time, but hey for those that think he's one step down from God, then I've changed my mind.

Vendetta? Too right. You think the rest of us here would have walked out on our country for a foreign club? Be interesting to see the reaction from certain quarters if Judas had taken the thirty shekels of silver at the Stadio delli Alpi or the Bernabeu instead of the theatre of creams.:mad: :mad:

[Footie_Fan]

Originally posted by lopez
unlike the missed penalty in Bucharest that was one of the differences between a place in France or a play-off defeat to Belgium.

I think you will find Romania won that group by 10 points. Facts please not rubbish you have derived for your own "vendetta."


Originally posted by only1kilbane
The bloke has gone from a hero in my opinion to scum of the earth.

So he is worse than murderers, rapists etc? This is just some of the ridiculous torrent of abuse you and others have been directing at the man who:

Drove us on to the World Cup with amazing individual displays in the qualifiers.
Played with an injury in the first leg against Iran.
Got the players moved from economy to business class on the planes.
Tried, in vein, to reform McCarthy's shambles of a setup. Even invited the man to his house.
Unfortunately it all got the better of him Saipan. He was wrong to attack the manager in such a public and vicious way but McCarthy was wrong to have a public meeting about him, when all Roy spoke to the papers was the truth about the joke that was the FAI and therefore McCarthy's setup in Saipan.
Our midfield has never been the same since...Basel.
February 2003 his career hanging in the balance he tells Kerr he won't be playing on medical grounds.
February 2004 fully recovered through some serious rest and recurperation and a terrible end to the 2003 season he wants back. The man deserves to play, he was sent home from the World Cup he didn't leave. While Roy is not without sin, McCarthy was the villian here.

[Declan_Michael]

What choice did McCarthy have but to call a meeting the squad. It affected all them.

Anyway, that is dead and buried now.

Don't care what Keane did in the past, don't care about his 58 caps. People like Staunton, 102 caps and Quinn record goalscorer are true Irishman.

As far as I am concerned Keane never played for Ireland he embarassed the country.

[Beavis]

Originally posted by Conor74

Or, CLAIMED he had a serious injury injury. Later plays a CL game and it is leaked by McCarthy that his omission was prearranged.

The one thing I find unforgivable is that he played a full 90mins against none other than Leicester City in the Eng Prem just two days after our game in Tehran.

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Beavis
The one thing I find unforgivable is that he played a full 90mins against none other than Leicester City in the Eng Prem just two days after our game in Tehran.

Are you sure? From memory the next match was the famous Middlesbourgh match that Keane walked out on watching from the stands.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Footie_Fan
I think you will find Romania won that group by 10 points. Facts please not rubbish you have derived for your own "vendetta."
If you were around at the time you would remember that there were X amount of teams in the playoffs, plus one team automatically through as best second place team (Scotland). Guess who narrowly missed out on that elusive best second place? :rolleyes:

As I said, no one blamed Judas at the time - I think it was a case of needing to turn just one of our home draws (Iceland, Romania or Lithuania) into a victory, so that penalty was certainly not the crucial point. But if we are going to be forever in awe to Judas because of his performances - those that he could be bothered to turn up to - in one campaign, let's look at his whole record.

The rest of your drivel is suitably addressed by Conor. There is therefore nothing else to add.

[tiktok]

hmm...strange the way I keep getting drawn in.


Originally posted by Declan_Michael
What choice did McCarthy have but to call a meeting the squad. It affected all them.

The conditions affected them all but to this day I don't see anything wrong with what Keane said to Tom Humphries. McCarthy should have spoken to him privately. Regardless of what followed, McCarthy set out to belittle him at that meeting.


Originally posted by Slash/ED
Are you sure? From memory the next match was the famous Middlesbourgh match that Keane walked out on watching from the stands.

I'm very pro Keane, but he did play a full ninety minutes against Leicester on the following saturday, I'm 100% sure of that. But as was said earlier, he'd missed five weeks before the Iran game and he came back earlier than he had been advised, to play in the home leg. It was agreed with McCarthy ahead of time that he's only be risked for one of the matches, and at the time we were all relieved. It was only afterwards this 'faking injury' nonsense started up. His critics use it as evidence that he never really cared about playing for Ireland, which is complete rubbish, even the most ardent Keane hater should admit he always gave his all when weraing the Irish shirt.

Even though we approach this from more or less a polar opposite position, I'm agree a lot with Conor. Pretty convincing arguments can be made for both sides of this, and with the volumes that have been written we all have reams of info (fact and fiction) to draw from. It could go on ad nauseum but at the end of the day ;) we need the line drawn under this now.

Briefly back to Saipan, to this day, and it's rarely mentioned in the rush to take sides, we'd all have been better off if McCarthy and Keane had both grown up and put their egos to one side for the duration of the WC, it's a shame some of those in the room, especially the senior players that day, hadn't seen the damage they both would do to our WC (which regardless of whatever spin anyone puts on it , was an unmitigated failure) and knock their heads together.

[lopez]

Originally posted by tiktok
...it's a shame some of those in the room, especially the senior players that day, hadn't seen the damage they both would do to our WC (which regardless of whatever spin anyone puts on it , was an unmitigated failure) and knock their heads together.
I think the Scots would have loved that sort of failure. :rolleyes: Or maybe even the French...or Argentines.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by lopez
I think the Scots would have loved that sort of failure. :rolleyes: Or maybe even the French...or Argentines.

I don't want to get too far off topic Lopez, but we should have aimed higher and done better at that World Cup, even without Keane. Screw the Scots, getting to the Finals shouldn't mark the end of the jouney anymore, it's that kind of thinking that lets us gloss over poor performances and turn out in our hundreds of thousands in Phoenix park to welcome back teams yet to match our first WC outing.

You talk about the French and the Argentinians who we got further than, Well I talk about the USA, Turkey, South Korea (ffs), Japan and (the worst I can remember) German sides who got further than us.

We drew with a mediocre (despite the pre-WC hype) Cameroon side which we should have thrashed. Drew with a brutal German side who had a wonderful keeper and little else and won our only game against the worst side at the tournament.

We were tactically inept in extra time against a Spanish side down to ten men and let them take us to penalties. A second round exit at that World Cup was a badly missed opportunity.

[Beavis]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
Are you sure? From memory the next match was the famous Middlesbourgh match that Keane walked out on watching from the stands.
See this:
http://www.manutd.com/clubheritage/2.3.1.r_club_heritage_premiership.sps?sNewsMonth=7&select1=458&eventid=8333


From the above link
and Roy Keane also made an earlier appearance then expected after his battle with a damaged knee.
How convenient.....:rolleyes:


Originallyposted by ticktok
I'm very pro Keane Pretty convincing arguments can be made for both sides of this
If you can see that there are relevant points on both sides how can you be so pro-Keane?would this not be a contradiction?
I obviously come across as pro-Mick but in actually fact,discounting events surrounding the Iran games,I am not strongly in support of either side.I think the whole thing is too convoluted and complicated to be ardently in favour of either.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by Beavis
If you can see that there are relevant points on both sides how can you be so pro-Keane?would this not be a contradiction?

Maybe to say I understand the alternative view would have been more accurate, but I do understand a lot of the problems the anti-keane lobby would have.
I don't for a second deny that Keane was out of order in the meeting (though i think he was blatantly provoked). I think our as captain he should have put ego aside for the duration of the WC and retired after (but I thnk Mc Carthy should have done exactly the same).
I understand why people bring up Iran (although i strongly disagree), but I've laid out where I lie on that too, he came back early from a relatively serious injury to play in the first leg, he hadn't trained properly before it and did take a risk, at the time no-one had a problem with him playing one game, but now it's used (incorrectly) as proof that he was disloyal.
I think being Pro-Keane comes down to a number of factors, the main one being as an EL fan I saw the FAI as a very unprofessional, junket taking, risible excuse for a football association. Maybe I'm also more sympathetic toward him because I also support Man United, who knows.

[thecorner]

Originally posted by only1kilbane
changing quotes my arse ?


he knows how the papers will construe them..


eh!!!!!!!!!please explain how u managed to contradict yourself
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[1MickCollins]

He's not coming back, it's just column filler in da papers.

From the Independant: "when _pressed_ on a possible return yesterday, Keane said: "I don't know, I think it's a hard question to answer, you'd have to ask the manager I suppose...

...I think it's important to move on...

...People talk about me coming back but I think it's important to move on."

...if I was to come back it would have to be just qualifying matches...


I don't think Kerr could allow a player to selet the games he played in, you can't have one rule for one player and another for everyone else. Ireland did well in the WC without him, would we have beaten Spain with him? He is a great player but he carries too much baggage now.

[sylvo]

This seem's to bring back ould and recent memory's of the name sake of the last poster mick collins, are we going to all have a collins v de velara type row about Keane and mccarthy for the next three generation's, i hope not, Let's be frank, in saipan Roy did'nt win, mick did'nt win anyone who was a fan of Irish football did'nt win, in fact we all lost regarldless of what your feeling's now or @ the time were. We have got to move on Mick's gone and Roy's gone, yes we don't have a player like keane waiting in the wing's to take over, but all we can do is put what happened behind us and move on. I want to see the best team out there for Ireland regardless of who the are , Brain Kerr said the same thing, what happened in saipan should be left there, maybe history's taught us nothing.

[parnell ranger]

Y not bring back brady lawrenson and mcgrath?after all they're still breathing too.
the FAI,the team and most supporters have moved on from those ridiculous but sad times and are heading in the right direction.
We certainly dont need keane as much as he needs us.im sure when he saw france pop out in our group he realised what he will miss especially with united lookin like they'll win nothing for the forseeable future.
The guy was our best ever player but now he belongs in the past.

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by sylvo
maybe history's taught us nothing.

The age-old Irish problem, non? ;)

:) PP

[the scout]

never in the history of irish football has one persons ego been given such attention.i think we should all (the whole football interested people)snchronise our watches ,and at exactly say 12 midnight shout at the top
of our voices
*********fcuk off roy you pr1ck,once and for all##########
he would hear us from anywhere!!!!!!!!:D :cool:

[only1kilbane]

that seems like the best idea we have had in the forum. Why doesnt the ****er just let sleeping dogs lie. If he had come back in February when he had the chance there would not have been so much anymosity. IMO he has no intentions of actually coming back just a bit of attention for the poor chap again. Why he even answered the papers questions on the subject is beyond me? he knows they will put words into his mouth !

[thecorner]

Originally posted by only1kilbane
Why he even answered the papers questions on the subject is beyond me? he knows they will put words into his mouth !

and then u go and contradict yourself again:D

[only1kilbane]

not contradicting myself at all mate !

the dick should not have agreed to answer those questions he lines the one liners up and they make the answers look a bit jucier. The gob****e knows what he is saying he is just looking for us all to basically fawn over him again.

He was a irish hero but his time has gone his betrayal will not be forgiven.

End of Story

[Footie_Fan]

Originally posted by lopez
If you were around at the time you would remember that there were X amount of teams in the playoffs, plus one team automatically through as best second place team (Scotland). Guess who narrowly missed out on that elusive best second place? :rolleyes:


Yes I was "around" for your information and I think you will find we were no where near that automatic spot for best second place.

Runners-up Comparision

TEAM P W D L F A GD PTS
1 * SCOTLAND 6 4 1 1 8 2 +6 13
2 Italy 6 3 3 0 5 0 +5 12
3 Belgium 6 4 0 2 11 11 0 12
4 Russia 6 3 2 1 12 5 +7 11
5 Croatia 6 3 2 1 11 8 +3 11
6 Yugoslavia 6 3 2 1 7 5 +2 11
7 Republic Of Ireland 6 2 2 2 8 6 +2 8
8 Ukraine 6 2 2 2 5 5 0 8
9 Hungary 6 1 3 2 4 7 -3 6

So as you can clearly see if Roy scored that penalty (which by the way hadn't been decided before the match who would take it if it came by McCarthy) Ireland would have drawn 1-1 with Romania and even then if we had beaten Lithuania at home we would still only have an extra 3 points. Beating Iceland would have been irrelevent for this table as only the results against the top team and the two below the second place team were counted.

So if you could please stop pointing out your ignorance with your inaccurate information.

[thecorner]

Originally posted by only1kilbane
changing quotes my arse ? i



Why answer them questions in the interview at all the gob****e,
he knows how the papers will construe them..

contradiction

[lopez]

Originally posted by tiktok
I don't want to get too far off topic Lopez, but we should have aimed higher and done better at that World Cup, even without Keane. Screw the Scots, getting to the Finals shouldn't mark the end of the jouney anymore, it's that kind of thinking that lets us gloss over poor performances and turn out in our hundreds of thousands in Phoenix park to welcome back teams yet to match our first WC outing.
With all due respect, Ireland is not Brazil. We don't have the 150m of them, the 110m of Turkey, the 90m of Germany or the 60m of France. The sport is popular but is held back through schools giving priority to other sports. I think that expecting the World Cup back is optimistic, especially missing what was our best and most influential player.

Originally posted by tiktok
I think being Pro-Keane comes down to a number of factors, the main one being as an EL fan I saw the FAI as a very unprofessional, junket taking, risible excuse for a football association. Maybe I'm also more sympathetic toward him because I also support Man United, who knows.
This is exactly it. Judas supporters and apologists, especially after the Scotland game, are Man U supporters. I've yet to meet one that isn't. Can anyone help?

[lopez]

Originally posted by Footie_Fan
Yes I was "around" ....So if you could please stop pointing out your ignorance with your inaccurate information.
Apolgies for getting my info wrong. :o I initially posted that you did not include the crap teams sides (hence the edit), but looking again see you have. Remember hearing that we were one win away from overtaking Scotland. Alas senility is creeping in.:(

[tiktok]

Originally posted by lopez
I think that expecting the World Cup back is optimistic, especially missing what was our best and most influential player.

Come on Lopez, don't go twisting my points about the place. I never said that ireland should have won the WC, but we had an excellent opportunity to do better than we had before and we didn't take it. I included a large share of the blame to Keane for us not achieving what we could have, as I said, both he and McCarthy should have had their heads knocked together and put the arguments off until the WC was over.


Originally posted by lopez
This is exactly it. Judas supporters and apologists, especially after the Scotland game, are Man U supporters. I've yet to meet one that isn't. Can anyone help?

I'm also a CCFC supporter and an Ireland fan, don't dismiss the point regarding my feelings toward the ineptitude of the FAI just because you got blinkered by the MUFC reference.

[lopez]

Originally posted by tiktok
Come on Lopez, don't go twisting my points about the place. I never said that ireland should have won the WC, but we had an excellent opportunity to do better than we had before and we didn't take it.
More humble pie, hmmmm!! :( :( You're right about what you said. But why stop at the quarter finals? Why stop at the semis? It's eleven versus eleven isn't it? But I think we are already punching way above our weight. Hate to see us like Brazil with a mass suicide every time we return without the cup.

Originally posted by tiktok
I'm also a CCFC supporter and an Ireland fan, don't dismiss the point regarding my feelings toward the ineptitude of the FAI just because you got blinkered by the MUFC reference.
There is a conflict of interests with Man U fans. And as far as I can see, they are the only people defending him (certainly it's not Cork people) and their club for doing the indefensible. Had he played for a team with no support in Ireland then it would only be his true friends and family sticking up for him.

The FAI are inept: I used to edit a London-Irish fanzine with a spoof letter from A. Moron in every issue, except the time that the professional Dutch FA put on a friendly with us in a stadium with just 12,000 seats. It's not just Merrion Mansions that f*cks up. Most FAs are run by (mostly) good-intentioned amateurs. It's better than corrupt politicos like Havelange's son in law in Brazil or Sadam's son in Iraq.

But if you want change, you put on a united front and fight for it like all workers. Keane - to give Judas a break - didn't do this. If his problem was McCarthy - probably our best ever manager even if he was hardly Ernst Happel or Helenio Herrera - then why not come back after his resignation? Why lie about his knees by playing in a money - making tour of the US? That's why I and many others imitate a bull in a cyber china shop.

[tricky_colour]

Originally posted by parnell ranger
Y not bring back brady lawrenson and mcgrath?after all they're still breathing too.
the FAI,the team and most supporters have moved on from those ridiculous but sad times and are heading in the right direction.
We certainly dont need keane as much as he needs us.im sure when he saw france pop out in our group he realised what he will miss especially with united lookin like they'll win nothing for the forseeable future.
The guy was our best ever player but now he belongs in the past.

Well if either them are top of an OPTA stata table then by all
means bring em back, you would be mad to leave the Premierships top passer out of your team.
Seems like Roy has a better chance of success with Ireland
than United in the remainder of his career.

[fergalr]

Originally posted by lopez
This is exactly it. Judas supporters and apologists, especially after the Scotland game, are Man U supporters. I've yet to meet one that isn't. Can anyone help?
You should get out more pal.

BTW, I find your use of the term "Judas supporters" infantile and offensive.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by lopez
Had he played for a team with no support in Ireland then it would only be his true friends and family sticking up for him.

maybe there's an element of truth to your MUFC point, but I honestly think I would have come down on his side purely because I felt McCarthy ambushed him with that meeting. As I've said in the past, I've read the Tom Humphries article many times and I still don't see what's wrong with it.


Originally posted by lopez
Most FAs are run by (mostly) good-intentioned amateurs.

That I do believe ;)


Originally posted by lopez
Why lie about his knees by playing in a money - making tour of the US? That's why I and many others imitate a bull in a cyber china shop.

:D

Lopez, we could end up outlasting the Celtic thread.
A club captain has to go on a pre-season tour where the club play against quality opposition, if the PLC (boo!hiss! by the way;) ) decide to turn it into a money spinner, that's not down to Roy. I was at one of those games and watched the others live, believe me when I say, those were proper preseason games and the contrary argument that Roy should have been training in England with the reserves and playing Rochdale just doesn't make sense...at all.

[Ozymandias]

I am not a Man U Fan and I am pro Keane returning .....I am pro Keane in so far as his past performances for his country must not be discounted and forgotten because of a sorry episode in saipan.....I do think he wasn't without fault in the whole mess... I am most of all an Irish Football fan and what annoys me the most about the world cup is that we suffered without Keane as everyone has to agree we were a better team when he was in the team rather than out of it and there was an opportunity to go alot further in the world cup...

However If Keane wants to come back does that not mean that he accepts that he owes the fans more and also that he can improve a team and help Brian Kerr blood younger lads and bring them on for two years...Miller,Healy,reid,Michael keane,quinn,thornton etc would develop quicker and better playing alongside keane.

I think some of the vitriol displayed in posts here disgusts and confuses me as none of us have all the facts...we have opinions based on reports but how can you get so deranged and so passionate about something that you don't have all the info about....

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

[lopez]

Originally posted by fergalr
You should get out more pal.

BTW, I find your use of the term "Judas supporters" infantile and offensive.
Infantile? Probably! Offensive? That was the intention. Glad it worked! As for getting out more, 9:20 at night? Have you not heard of pubs...or a girlfriend? :p

Originally posted by tiktok
...I honestly think I would have come down on his side purely because I felt McCarthy ambushed him with that meeting. As I've said in the past, I've read the Tom Humphries article many times and I still don't see what's wrong with it.
I read it once and thought it was pretty appalling from a captain. A real team player we had here...NOT!!!! Would you expect Ferguson not to 'ambush' Keane if he came out with snide remarks in about himself and his players? Keane cries foul about a 'public' provocation when he does the same the previous day in a newspaper. Such double standards!

Originally posted by tiktok
...Lopez, we could end up outlasting the Celtic thread.
A club captain has to go on a pre-season tour where the club play against quality opposition, if the PLC (boo!hiss! by the way;) ) decide to turn it into a money spinner, that's not down to Roy. I was at one of those games and watched the others live, believe me when I say, those were proper preseason games and the contrary argument that Roy should have been training in England with the reserves and playing Rochdale just doesn't make sense...at all.
His club's meaningless fixtures take precedence over competitive games for his country. I can't come to any other conclusion.
Originally posted by Ozymandias
I am not a Man U Fan and I am pro Keane returning .....I am pro Keane in so far as his past performances for his country must not be discounted and forgotten because of a sorry episode in saipan.....
Many of us work for employers who are far more incompetent than the FAI or McCarthy (I for one do). If there is a problem, sort it out collectively. For all the talk about how bad the FAI were, how many footballers followed Roy home? Ah, but their standards aren't as high. What sh*te.

Originally posted by Ozymandias
I do think he wasn't without fault in the whole mess... I am most of all an Irish Football fan and what annoys me the most about the world cup is that we suffered without Keane as everyone has to agree we were a better team when he was in the team rather than out of it and there was an opportunity to go alot further in the world cup...
We anti-Keanites (to put it one way) are Irish fans too. Moreover, I have no affiliation with any English club, so this is no Man Ure vendetta on my part, apart from the way that they saw an opportunity to convince Keane to turn his back on his country. If it were Celtic, I'd be as critical of them, and I'm sure we'd get a different queue of apologists.

Of course we suffered in Japan. He was our best player. Had he had a better attitude, instead of someone that gives the impression of needing a large Jack Daniels to sort out him out for a while, then I would be certain we would have done better. Instead, we lost a decent (if not flawless) manager and our best player. I can only hope that the Kerr years will eclipse this sorry affair.

Finally, what happens if Judas comes back? If Kerr can pull this hot iron out of the fire, then he has my full support. Keane's a footballer, not an a*sehole my daughter's brought home. I don't have to go drinking with him (or him with me). We can all live with his return and I for one will give an Irish team with him the same support as before. Hypocrisy? Perhaps. But I think everyone here will agree that this affair has done enough damage and the sight of Irish fans booing one of their own players is something I hope will not happen again.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by lopez
Would you expect Ferguson not to 'ambush' Keane if he came out with snide remarks in about himself and his players? Keane cries foul about a 'public' provocation when he does the same the previous day in a newspaper. Such double standards!

His club's meaningless fixtures take precedence over competitive games for his country. I can't come to any other conclusion.


Ferguson might well have lost the rag (although I doubt it, Keane has often slagged off his team-mates at OT), but he would have taken his captain aside and let him have it privately before opening it out to the floor, which is what McCarthy should have done. You talk about poor bosses, you should never belittle someone in front of their peers like that and if you do, expect a reaction. Keane was out of order after the fact but...Ambush pure and simple.


Originally posted by lopez
His club's meaningless fixtures take precedence over competitive games for his country. I can't come to any other conclusion.

I don't understand the argument here at all. Ferguson has often left Keane on the bench or out of the squad in the last two years when he's felt that his captain needs to be rested (as he was against Leeds at the weekend) but it's daft to suggest that a player should go into the first game of the news season without having tried to achieve match fitness with pre-season friendlies, no player anywhere in the world would do it. The fact that it was a money spinner for the PLC is irrelevant, while there they played competitive games against Celtic, the Mexican champions and Barcelona and trained for a week at a world class facilityon the Nike Campus in Portland.

Everyone comes out with 'surely he could play four games per year with Ireland', Man Utd fans will be wishing he played ten or fifteen games a season more with his club. He's playing well, but he is obviously being rested often at club level, as a Man Utd fan that's one thing i guarentee you. If he was 100% he'd be the first name down on United's team sheet every match.

[eirebhoy]

What exactly did Keane do wrong that he doesn't deserve to come back? The only thing I can think of is he didn't stick to his word when he said he would play for Ireland when Mick was gone (altough he could have said he will not play under Mick again and the papers turned it around). He said that before he had his bad knee problems (which has now settled) so had every right to change his mind. People are really overreacting, Shearer retired for similar reasons and I am sure the English would have him back in a flash.

Keane has made up his mind and is not media stirring (he said its up to Kerr, what more do you want?), this is his way of letting everyone know has made himself available for Ireland. The way he went about it was the best way IMO as he gets to see the fans reactions before he makes his mind up completely.

I am not a United fan or a Cork man and I believe there is definitely a bit of ABU-ism in most of the Anti-Keane's, meaning they are taking the issue more serious then it actually is. I don't know of one Man Utd fan that doesn't back Keane for what he did or didn't do in Saipan. If he played for Liverpool/Arsenal/Forest at the time most of the Irish fans of the club he played would back up Keane. You may say you wouldn't and "ManU fans support Keane because they are this and that" but we are all human. United fans are no different then the rest of us no matter what you may think.

Think of Liam Miller "turning his back" on Celtic, a lot of the Celtic fans hate him for it but most of the Irish fans have nothing against him. Roy Keane "turned his back" on Ireland, a lot of the Irish fans hate him for it but most of the Irish-United fans have nothing against him.

If Keane had done something really serious the Irish-United fans wouldn't forgive him.

[Ozymandias]

originally posted by Lopez Many of us work for employers who are far more incompetent than the FAI or McCarthy (I for one do). If there is a problem, sort it out collectively. For all the talk about how bad the FAI were, how many footballers followed Roy home? Ah, but their standards aren't as high. What sh*te.

I thought they had sorted it out collectively until McCarthy called the now infamous meeting to dredge it up again.....Even Keane is his interview with Tom Humphreys said that he had thrashed it with McCarthy , Bonner and evans and also with a number of the players

Also I find it hard to believe that someone works for employers more incompetent than the FAI..If you do you have my sympathies...christ they must be bruuuuuutalllllll

[lopez]

Originally posted by Ozymandias
I thought they had sorted it out collectively...
And then Judas done the Humphries interview, which his number one fan (sarcasm) Philip Quinn described in the Irish Independent as 'basically...a vote of no-confidence in McCarthy as Irish manager.' The Irish Times had not gone over to subscription and I remember reading the article and feeling disgusted with this blatant attempt to stir things.

Originally posted by Ozymandias
Also I find it hard to believe that someone works for employers more incompetent than the FAI..If you do you have my sympathies...christ they must be bruuuuuutalllllll
They're called London Underground Limited. Recent example of incompetence? No snow on the tracks (all melted) but no trains running due to...snow on the track! :rolleyes: I think they helped train the FAI, but as with all these things, you can never be as good as the master.:D

[tiktok]

Originally posted by Conor74
(i) 'never belittle'? You mean you missed the whole Fergie and boot incident?

I take your point however.....
As Lopez brought up Fergie, the boot in Beck's eye incident came right after an appaling Utd loss, it was immediately venting anger in the dressing room, not at Beckham but at the whole team. While it was probably the catalyst for Beckham's departure, it was an accident.
McCarthy sat with the article for a significant period of time before calling the meeting, he had time to think about how he was going to approach Keane and chose the wrong option. If he had lost the rag after reading it the result might have been the same but McCarthy would not have, IMO acted in such a calculating manner to belittle his captain.


Originally posted by Conor74
(ii) It wasnt really a case of training for a week, more like training for a couple of days, flying half way across the US to San Diego, returning, flying to Chicago a couple of days later, returning etc. etc. I have no idea whether it was good, bad or indifferent, but the games took place all over the US and not near the training facilities.

Not quite. I was rightly corrected before over the tour duration, but they were based in Portland for a full week, a 1-hr flight e/w to Seattle for the 1st game. They left Portland on the eve of the second LA game (2-hr south). After that they did play in the Philly and then NY,NY as they moved back across the country.
This I know is fact because I was living in Portland, OR at the time.

[Ozymandias]

lopez...a good few mates of mine worked for london underground....they milked it while they were there..but all agreed the place was full of incompetence......some of the stories they told me were hilarious if they weren't so serious

[Lionel Ritchie]

Originally posted by tiktok
[B]I take your point however.....
As Lopez brought up Fergie, the boot in Beck's eye incident came right after an appaling Utd loss, it was immediately venting anger in the dressing room, not at Beckham but at the whole team. While it was probably the catalyst for Beckham's departure, it was an accident.

I have it on excellent authority that it was no accident. Full force and quite brilliantly aimed throw from the hand straight into the halfwits face -not a frustrated kick at a boot that went array. Hee Hee.:D :eek:

[Éanna]

Originally posted by eirebhoy
What exactly did Keane do wrong that he doesn't deserve to come back? walked out on his country- what more do you want. most people would have walked over hot coals to play in the world cup and he ****s off cos the training pitch was bumpy- poor roy :rolleyes: and whats worse is this media-grabbing attenetion-seeking rubbish he's going with by raising the prospect of a return every few months which helps no-one but his own ego