How depressing is the seeding news?

[Greenbod]

nonsense, it's the fact that it is only being announced NOW that creates the uproar. you could stomach it if you had known all along that this was the case....


And what would have changed, if you'd known all along? (besides the feeling in your stomach)

[DeLorean]

And what would have changed, if you'd known all along? (besides the feeling in your stomach)

Obviously the sense that FIFA waited to see what way it panned out, and then decided whether top countries needed looking after or not. I think that's the general feeling and if it's the case it's obviously completely unethical. Would it have made a difference to our chances of qualifying? we don't know yet but that's not the point.

[IsMiseSean]

We've been up against it from the beginning of this journey... FIFA can do whatever they want to try and stop us qualifying, I've had a feeling from the start of the campaign that we would be in South Africa and I still believe we will be :) be it Germany, France, Portugal etc.

As you can see I took my happy pills this morning!!

[Leeside Swagger]

I don't see anything to indicate this, am I missing something?


Looks like rte had a u-turn of their own, i posted it at 3.39pm and the article has since been updated as of 4.01pm. It originally said something about the prospect of the Germans not qualifying would have been unfeasible from a commercial viewpoint. This is most definitely a conspiracy, i've taken the liberty of contacting Jim Corr, all will be sorted out shortly.

[noddy102]

I don't necessarily see what the problem is with FIFA's decision.

This was always on the cards. They seeded the teams for the 2006 WC playoffs, so there is at least a precedent, and I'm not aware if they did likewise before that too.

Anyway, it hardly changes matters, since we have to get to the playoffs first, and previous to this piece of news, we were still in the same position, knowing that we'd have to win on aggregate in the playoffs to qualify. The opposition is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

[eaststand85]

Ray Houghton just been on Drivetime on RTE1 saying it's not right too.

[kingdomkerry]

I don't necessarily see what the problem is with FIFA's decision.

This was always on the cards. They seeded the teams for the 2006 WC playoffs, so there is at least a precedent, and I'm not aware if they did likewise before that too.

Anyway, it hardly changes matters, since we have to get to the playoffs first, and previous to this piece of news, we were still in the same position, knowing that we'd have to win on aggregate in the playoffs to qualify. The opposition is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

So you would'nt care if we got russia/germany/france over say norway or bosnia?

[Brian Boru]

FIFA is wrong. I wouldn't worry though. We still could top the group. Unlikely I agree but possible. Even if we finish second the seeding is irrelevent. Germany will top their group. They'd be the only one we wouldn't beat. So we won't have to worry about them. Croatia are sh**e. Russia and France are average. Portugal are average and wont even get second in their group anyhow. Croke park is very intimidating and I'd be confident of us beating any of the seeded teams. Bring on the Italians. C'mon you boys in green.

[philliyk]

FAI Chief Executive John Delaney remains optimistic about Ireland's chances in spite of the revised seeding system.

"Speaking in today's Irish Daily Mail, Delaney insisted: 'I'm not too sure where that [seeded draw] will place us but we've got concentrate first on what we've got to do.

'We've got to try and beat Italy and take it to the last game. And if we end up in the play-offs, we'd have been delighted to have got to the play-offs at the start of the group and we'll take what we get.'

He added: 'All I will say is that and team who finishes second mustn't have been top team in their group, obviously. So it gives you a chance.'"

A statement like that is indicitant of the FAI's "Ahh sure aren't we lucky to be here" mentality coming out again I see. If Delaney had an b***'s about him he would have been contacting other 'smaller' countries in a similiar situation to ours ages ago & trying to get a definate answer to the seeding but I guess he must have been promised some kind "back room seat" with FIFA or UEFA when his tenure ever comes to an end(Rant about this over)

What's happened has happened we should get over it, ensure the fans can provide all the help we can for the team & if we have to go to Moscow or Belgrade then we have to - i'm sure some of the 'veterans' of the last 2002 campaign have a story or two to tell if they made it to Tehran for that game.

[MeathDrog]

And if like you say we're equal to all the other teams who finish 2nd, what's the problem? We have as good a chance against any of them. If there is seeding, what difference does it make whether announced now or a year ago?
I already clarified what I meant by 'equal' a few posts after this one.

[Stuttgart88]

A statement like that is indicitant of the FAI's "Ahh sure aren't we lucky to be here" mentality coming out again I see. I don't agree. I'd say they are probably lobbying behind the scenes for an open draw but know they're up against it. The CEO of the FAI can't very well be going "We're doomed if we get Russia" to the press. He's just putting a positive spin on what looks like being a detrimental situation.

[Qwerty]

I don't necessarily see what the problem is with FIFA's decision.

This was always on the cards. They seeded the teams for the 2006 WC playoffs, so there is at least a precedent, and I'm not aware if they did likewise before that too.

Anyway, it hardly changes matters, since we have to get to the playoffs first, and previous to this piece of news, we were still in the same position, knowing that we'd have to win on aggregate in the playoffs to qualify. The opposition is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

It does matter, you set up the rules in advance not during the game. This is just plain wrong and just shows how corrupt FIFA is, no doubt he has been unde pressure to ensure that the big teams make it to RSA.

[philliyk]

Stuttgart - get what your saying but it's annoying that if they are doing it why not come out now & let the fans know. As it is the fans who are going to shelling out their own money on having to get to which ever city it may be I don't think its asking much to be kept in the loop - anyway like I said - its done know so we'll just hada get on with supporting the team!!!

[boovidge]

The problem I have with this is that it's moving the goalposts halfway through the game. If we'd known about this before then fine, but the conditions for qualifying were set down before the groups started and it's wrong to change them at this stage. A very obvious and cynical ploy to make as much money as possible whilst sticking two fingers up at the smaller nations who have worked hard to get where they are in the groups.

[geysir]

No goalposts have been changed. The format for the play offs were not set down until yesterday. Same format as last time or almost the same.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No goalposts have been changed. The format for the play offs were not set down until yesterday. Same format as last time or almost the same.

And therein lies the rub. The cnuts of FIFA should decide this b*llox before any competition starts not halfway through, FFS. Or it smacks of even more of a fix than it is already.

Whether it affects Ireland is almost immaterial;it smacks of bad practice, which could be FIFA's motto....

[geysir]

Seedings are a fix.
Most every competition is seeded. 2006 Q play offs were seeded, I don't remember how far in advance that was announced. Were there protests about that?
The only reason we are moaning is because most likely we will not be seeded, should we get into the draw.
I don´t know why this issue was left so late in the day.
It's more than a reasonable guess that the big countries will anyway be in the top 4.

[Greenbod]

Obviously the sense that FIFA waited to see what way it panned out, and then decided whether top countries needed looking after or not. I think that's the general feeling and if it's the case it's obviously completely unethical. Would it have made a difference to our chances of qualifying? we don't know yet but that's not the point.

It is the point. Please read the thread. Our chances of qualifying are what this entire thread is about. At the risk of sounding repetitive, if we are good enough we will qualify. FIFA rules about seedings and play offs are irrelevant in that they apply to all of the teams equally.

[Greenbod]

So you would'nt care if we got russia/germany/france over say norway or bosnia?

You can't win the World cup by only beating crap teams...........unless of course you're Germany then you can win anyway you like.

[Greenbod]

I don't necessarily see what the problem is with FIFA's decision.

This was always on the cards. They seeded the teams for the 2006 WC playoffs, so there is at least a precedent, and I'm not aware if they did likewise before that too.

Anyway, it hardly changes matters, since we have to get to the playoffs first, and previous to this piece of news, we were still in the same position, knowing that we'd have to win on aggregate in the playoffs to qualify. The opposition is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

Agree entirely..............seems like we're the only ones trying to fix the draw to suit ourselves, ie....we want a weak team to play against!

Comes a time, eventually, when all is said and done, at the end of the day, in the final analysis, after long consideration, that we might just have to play against a good team and win!

[mypost]

What people haven't mentioned yet, is our ability to get into the first seeds ourselves. Do we think we should be there, despite failing everything we've entered for the last 6 years? We're 38th in the World, not 8th.

Assuming second seeds are home first, the away game will be a pain in the balls for travelling, but at least we'll know before the draw is made, that we can only get one from 4 teams rather than one from the lot of them.

[theworm2345]

What people haven't mentioned yet, is our ability to get into the first seeds ourselves. Do we think we should be there, despite failing everything we've entered for the last 6 years? We're 38th in the World, not 8th.

Assuming second seeds are home first, the away game will be a pain in the balls for travelling, but at least we'll know before the draw is made, that we can only get one from 4 teams rather than one from the lot of them.
They said a separate draw will be held to determine where and when the matches are played.


After a FIFA meeting in Rio de Janeiro last night, Blatter confirmed to The Guardian newspaper: 'We have decided on seeding the teams into two groups of four, taking the Fifa world rankings into account, with the top four in one pot and the others in another pot.'


'There will be a separate draw to decide home and away,' he added of the two-leg ties to determine four European places at the 2010 finals in South Africa.

[jbyrne]

these play off draws are always fixed one way or another. at least this time they are being open about it and not going through the charade of a fixed "open" draw. its just up to us to wreck their plans to help the stonger countries (provided we get to the play offs)

[magnumpi]

what worries me is the lengths FIFA will go to, to ensure that the big teams get to S.A. Next stop....dodgy refereeing decisions going in the favour of "bigger" nations who faired badly in the first leg of a play-off.

conspiracy theory i know, but i don't trust that cnut blatter.

[the doc]

what worries me is the lengths FIFA will go to, to ensure that the big teams get to S.A. Next stop....dodgy refereeing decisions going in the favour of "bigger" nations who faired badly in the first leg of a play-off.

conspiracy theory i know, but i don't trust that cnut blatter.

I agree and it wouldn't suprise me if there were questionable refereeing decisions in favour of the so called bigger national teams

Nothing surprises me about FIFA, I remember reading about their alledged shady deals, Profiteerng, behind the scenes votes and vote buying, brown enevolpes etc, in a book called "Great Balls of Fire" How big money is hijacking world football.

It seems to me that Blatter is a law unto himself, with the likes of Platini following in the same manner.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Perhaps we should all take a leaf out of a certain gent's book and all start e-mailing/Phoning/petitioning FIFA If we get to SA, we'll all turn-up with our 10 grannies, or assorted friends/families and fill out every game, just because Ireland have qualified.....

Maybe it'd be enough to swing us an 'easier' draw??

[elroy]

The seedings play their part in the group process. So when a team does well and performs above their seeding ie in our case, we shouldnt get hammered with seedings again because some other teams in higher seeding havent done as well. Its downright wrong and there is no basis for it. Yes if the seeding suited us we wouldnt have a problem but there is no logical fair reasoning for this decision.
It should be an open draw, end of. If it had to be seeded playoffs, this shouldve been clearly communicated before the start of the groups not now. For whats its worth Im sending an email to Fifa, asking for an objective reasoning for this.

[eaststand85]

The seedings play their part in the group process. So when a team does well and performs above their seeding ie in our case, we shouldnt get hammered with seedings again because some other teams in higher seeding havent done as well. Its downright wrong and there is no basis for it. Yes if the seeding suited us we wouldnt have a problem but there is no logical fair reasoning for this decision.
It should be an open draw, end of. If it had to be seeded playoffs, this shouldve been clearly communicated before the start of the groups not now. For whats its worth Im sending an email to Fifa, asking for an objective reasoning for this.

Very well put, best way I've heard it explained yet.

All the best with your e-mail, let us know how you get on although unfortunately I reckon I see a PFO coming your way.

[NeilMcD]

Several of the groups, however, are still being hotly contested and in the event that Latvia overtook Greece to finish second in Group Two, Ireland would be bumped up to seed status as long as Latvia’s success wasn’t cancelled out by, amongst other more far-fetched possibilities, Portugal overhauling Sweden in Group One, the Czech Republic leapfrogging Slovenia in Group Three or Sweden finishing second but moving above Ireland in the World Ranking list to be published three days before the draw. The Swedes are currently three places and 20 points behind the Republic but made up 36 points on Trapattoni’s side in the most recently published table


in todays irish times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1001/1224255612139.html

[geysir]

The IT journalist is not referring to Edgar's list of most probable rankings.
To be in the top 4, most likely Ireland would have to win their 2 games or at least 4 points and Sweden Ukraine Slovenia to finish second place.

I guess the open draw for fixtures in the play off draw was a compromise of sorts towards the lobbying of the FAI etc.

[gspain]

The IT journalist is not referring to Edgar's list of most probable rankings.
To be in the top 4, most likely Ireland would have to win their 2 games or at least 4 points and Sweden Ukraine Slovenia to finish second place.

I guess the open draw for fixtures in the play off draw was a compromise of sorts towards the lobbying of the FAI etc.

Ukraine will have to beat England to get 2nd and sweden win in Denmark. Both will rise in the rankings too because of those results.

It is unlikely that even 2 wins will get us a seed.

Any chance Brian Kerr could do us a favour and beat France as they'd take a big hit in the FIFA rankings. :D

I'm sure the FAI still have the confirmation from FIFA that the draw would be unseeded and surely the document confirming this from the FIFA website that mysteriously disappeared from the site a few weeks back. However it doesn't mean anything as they can change their minds at will.

I don't think FIFA will try and influence referees however the referee will know FIFA want France in the finals and it will be tough to get 50-50 decisions or even blatant penalties at a crucial stage.

Best option is to draw Croatia as FIFA won't care who wins. I know they'd be very tough to beat but we'd have a good shot at them.

[shakermaker1982]

The issue should have been resolved at the start of the WC qualifying campaign. Announcing it now gives the impression that FIFA look like they are protecting the 'bigger' nations. Deep down we knew all along it would be seeded because if Germany got paired up with France and Slovenia got matched up with Bosnia FIFA would be missing out on serious tv revenue.

Bring on Portugal, France, Russia/Germany. If we can perform a mission impossible then all the better. We've taken big scalps before and can do it again.

[geysir]

Ukraine will have to beat England to get 2nd and sweden win in Denmark. Both will rise in the rankings too because of those results.

It is unlikely that even 2 wins will get us a seed.

Both of those teams are behind us before going into the last 2 games.
Unlikely, but Ireland beating Italy keeps us almost certainly well ahead of Sweden and gives us a very good chance of staying ahead of Ukraine.

The three unlikelys make it very very unlikely.

[gspain]

The issue should have been resolved at the start of the WC qualifying campaign. Announcing it now gives the impression that FIFA look like they are protecting the 'bigger' nations. Deep down we knew all along it would be seeded because if Germany got paired up with France and Slovenia got matched up with Bosnia FIFA would be missing out on serious tv revenue.

Bring on Portugal, France, Russia/Germany. If we can perform a mission impossible then all the better. We've taken big scalps before and can do it again.

It was resolved before the start of the campaign. Confirmed in writing and on the FIFA website. They've changed their minds.

Even if we beat Italy, Sweden beat Denmark and the Ukraine beat England and the Faroes beat France to move us ahead of France in the rankings FIFA still have time to decide how they will seed the draw. They could still use the September FIFA rankings if they had to.

[irishbaz]

I think it a disgrace too but I never go to the bother of reading a thread, never question what's written in a post, never try to understand the relevance of what's written in a post, never look for a supporting link to the main story and always believe any old nonsense, what's your excuse?

You appear to have made the mother of all assumptions here by inaccurately reading between the lines of my post and placing yourself on a pedestal made from paper i.e. not designed to support the intellectual weight of your argument. I did look around and UEFA have already set a clear president in pervious European and world cups which is further underpinned by Sepp Blatter. I also have spoken to football people around this subject prior to posting about how disgraceful the whole seeding scenario is. I see through some of your postings you have the ability to attempt to belittle people through assumptions and veiled rhetoric. So to put it in bite size chunks for you I did check it out, I am disgruntled and like every fan I am entitled to my viewpoint (right, wrong or indifferent). So to suggest ignorance on my behalf without being introspective would suggest that you are paddling that very canoe. I think I have explained my argument in other words don’t assume to be telepathic as your not!! Sorry for my late reply as it took me a week to put that togeather

[shakermaker1982]

It was resolved before the start of the campaign. Confirmed in writing and on the FIFA website. They've changed their minds. .

Really? It was supposed to be an open draw? Any time I checked FIFA's site they had left it vague but that has only been last year or so. If true then that is disgraceful.


Even if we beat Italy, Sweden beat Denmark and the Ukraine beat England and the Faroes beat France to move us ahead of France in the rankings FIFA still have time to decide how they will seed the draw. They could still use the September FIFA rankings if they had to.

Well if they try and use the September rankings then they really are a bunch of crooks.

[geysir]

I did look around and UEFA have already set a clear president in pervious European and world cups which is further underpinned by Sepp Blatter.
UEFA? wtf have UEFA got to do with it?


I also have spoken to football people around this subject prior to posting about how disgraceful the whole seeding scenario is.

And they told you that UEFA decided on the format for the WC play offs?
All UEFA did was announce the format for the 2012 draw.
But somehow, in this thread it was manifested into a seeding announcement for the WC qualifier play offs

[Crosby87]

.

But somehow, in this thread it was manifested into a seeding announcement for the WC qualifier play offs

That might be my fault for starting the thread on a rare matter I am not educated on. I thought it would make a big difference but now i realize this is all moot. Even a random draw probably would have had us against a top team. Plus things like this sometimes work out for the best. And last, we could have finished first in the group, Italy havent been overwhelming and there would have been nothing any of the supposed fixers could have done about us winning. BUT we didnt so now we might have to beat a more polished soccer nation to get in. So, maybe we will or maybe not. And anyway its not like we will have to play Brazil. It is what it is. Good players should have games against good teams.

[irishbaz]

.
UEFA? wtf have UEFA got to do with it?

Sorry FIFA I have UEFA on the brain!!

.

And they told you that UEFA decided on the format for the WC play offs?
All UEFA did was announce the format for the 2012 draw.
But somehow, in this thread it was manifested into a seeding announcement for the WC qualifier play offs

No they said that this point should have been addressed prior to the qualifiers as opposed to us having this discussion, which in all honesty I think the point is for all true football fans is I have my hol request in because I want to be in South Africa and I want the draw to be fair to give us the best chance of being there, that’s why the mere fact that its being considered is gaoling

[NeilMcD]

Irishbaz I think the point he is making is that it is FIFA not UEFA that look after the World Cup qualifying.

[MeathDrog]

Will they have seedings of the seedings? Or will they just leave the seedings as they are after the playoff from the seeded group?


Ah, too many seeds.

[irishbaz]

Irishbaz I think the point he is making is that it is FIFA not UEFA that look after the World Cup qualifying.

yeah got that and for some reason it put one of my responses in the grey box and one outside

[philliyk]

Agree entirely..............seems like we're the only ones trying to fix the draw to suit ourselves, ie....we want a weak team to play against!

Comes a time, eventually, when all is said and done, at the end of the day, in the final analysis, after long consideration, that we might just have to play against a good team and win!

For me it isnt so much trying to get the draw fixed for us(although wouldn't that be great!!) - wouldn't it be great to come home after watching Eire stuffing which ever team is unfortnate to have to play us at Croker to earn our ticket to S.Africa:D & next morning when the hangover is starting to kick in get your recording on of say Germany v France battling it out for a place in the finals:D

[Greenbod]

For me it isnt so much trying to get the draw fixed for us(although wouldn't that be great!!) - wouldn't it be great to come home after watching Eire stuffing which ever team is unfortnate to have to play us at Croker to earn our ticket to S.Africa:D & next morning when the hangover is starting to kick in get your recording on of say Germany v France battling it out for a place in the finals:D

I'd prefer to come home after watching us knock Germany out of the world cup........I wouldn't be watching any recordings the next morning.:D

[Acornvilla]

id say no matter who we get well draw both games and hope for the best with away goals

[MeathDrog]

id say no matter who we get well draw both games and hope for the best with away goals
I'd hope for that like.

Although if it did happen, in the 89th minute FIFA would introduce a rule saying that away goals don't count in playoffs...

[irishultra]

FIFA is wrong. I wouldn't worry though. We still could top the group. Unlikely I agree but possible. Even if we finish second the seeding is irrelevent. Germany will top their group. They'd be the only one we wouldn't beat. So we won't have to worry about them. Croatia are sh**e. Russia and France are average. Portugal are average and wont even get second in their group anyhow. Croke park is very intimidating and I'd be confident of us beating any of the seeded teams. Bring on the Italians. C'mon you boys in green.

if france are average what does that make ireland?:eek:

i do hope we get france tho for a few reasons

1.i could see us getting a score draw in paris
2.close proximity
3.will be definetly allowed to go as its my lc year and im aiming for an a1 in french so it be a good opportunity to practice.

[mypost]

They said a separate draw will be held to determine where and when the matches are played.

They really like to draw the thing out, don't they? :rolleyes:

Just draw the teams in Pot 1 v the teams in Pot 2, and let us all just get on with it.

This is one of the reasons why I hate play-offs. I much prefer the group going onto November, and everything been decided at the end of the group phase.

I can't imagine how Norway are coping.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ah, too many seeds.
Cue for a Nick Cave concert?

Even though I think he's a depressing fcuk, only Irish fans of a certain age & disposition will get this!

[SkStu]

FIFA/UEFA - Full of sh*t.

can we get a flag ready for the playoffs??? :ball: