Italy v Bulgaria

[Dun Laoire]

Sorry lads i don't see a thread for this game? How do you see this going? I know the draw is the best outcome for us and i'd reckon Bulgaria could well nick a draw. Worst case scenario Bulgaria win?? Italy win?? The latter two outcomes to me seems to have both a positive and a negative way of looking at it. So here's hoping for the draw :ball:

[musicinmouth]

Ideal result would be a draw with Italy having several players booked / sent off (especially Buffon). Italy already have lots of yellow cards going into this game... Let's hope it gets heated... and let's hope that Italy haven't found any more Kaladzes!

[Infadel]

The best outcome we can hope for is Bulgaria and Italy drawing so it gives us a chance to leapfrog Italy into top spot if we beat them and keeps Bulgaria behind us. I think Bulgaria winning is the worst outcome because it means we have to get a result against Italy to stop Bulgaria going ahead of us.

[eirebhoy]

Aquilani, Pirlo, Palombo, Cannavaro, Grosso, Gattuso, Chiellini, Amelia, Cassetti, Cameronesi and Iaquinta all on a yellow for Italy.

Gattuso and Aquilani are injured for the Bulgaria game anyway.

I'd hope for a booking to Cannavaro, Chiellini, Grosso, Pirlo, Cameronesi in that order. I haven't seen Pirlo play well in ages so not too worried about him but he could obviously have one of his good days.

[Razors left peg]

Aquilani, Pirlo, Palombo, Cannavaro, Grosso, Gattuso, Chiellini, Amelia, Cassetti, Cameronesi and Iaquinta all on a yellow for Italy.

Gattuso and Aquilani are injured for the Bulgaria game anyway.

I'd hope for a booking to Cannavaro, Chiellini, Grosso, Pirlo, Cameronesi in that order. I haven't seen Pirlo play well in ages so not too worried about him but he could obviously have one of his good days.

Ive the rosary beads out already for another yellow for Cannavaro:)

[SkStu]

having thought long and hard about it and reading all the permutations and opinions in this forum im gonna pray for an Italian win against the Bulgars.

The visit of Italy to Dublin reminds me of Thierry Henry and friends a few years ago (a stuttering team, general unrest and players under performing) and if Bulgaria are out of the equation by then, a narrow loss to the Italians wont cost us as much as the defeat to France did.

I would also fancy our chances of beating Italy more if they have already beaten Bulgaria.

[Schumi]

The thing is, we'll have to beat a good team to qualify whatever happens, be it Italy or someone in the play-offs. If Italy beat Bulgaria, a win for us over Italy will be essentially meaningless and it'd be a pity to waste it if it happened. :) We don't lose much ground to Bulgaria if they draw but we have a much better chance of winning the group so a draw would be my preference by a distance. If Italy aren't playing well, we might well have a better chance of beating them and winning the group than we'd have of winning a play off.

[SkStu]

i hear you Schumi - theres arguments for and against all the permutations!!

[abbeyvale]

Italy 1-1 Bulgaria

[eirebhoy]

having thought long and hard about it and reading all the permutations and opinions in this forum im gonna pray for an Italian win against the Bulgars.

It all depends on what happens in other groups on Wednesday. If Bulgaria draw tomorrow the max points they can get is 18. 18 points still probably won't even make the playoffs anyway.

[geysir]

Anything other than an Italian win would be a major shock.
Italy at 1/3 for the win.
draw 3/1
Bulgaria 15/2

Scotland 2/1, Holland are a steal at 6/5 :)

Edit
I forgot to mention
Italy 1/7 to win the group

[Qwerty]

Anything other than an Italian win would be a major shock.
Italy at 1/3 for the win.
draw 3/1
Bulgaria 15/2

Scotland 2/1, Holland are a steal at 6/5 :)

Edit
I forgot to mention
Italy 1/7 to win the group

Italy are not playing all that well at the moment, they needed 2 own goals to beat Georgia and they failed to score in their previous 3 games. A draw is a liely result.

One quote in a Guardian srticle that struck me as amusing was from Fabio Cannavaro who ... "was quick to dismiss criticisms, claiming Italy have always played scrappy football but won on the basis of a strong defence. Lippi pointed to the fact that during the qualifying campaign for the 2006 World Cup, his side had scraped past Moldova 1-0 away from home only with the help of Buffon – who made a stunning save to keep out one header on Saturday – and had lost in Slovenia."

Hmm he could be talking about Ireland under Trapp :D Maybe we're doing the usual Iriah thing of seeing the glass half empty. We're in with a great chance of qualifying so quit whinging and be happy and stop campaigning for fringe players to be allowed to save the day :)

[Get a life]

try www.atdhe.com (http://www.atdhe.com) or www.justintv.com (http://www.justintv.com) and you might be able to watch it

[Infadel]

try www.atdhe.com (http://www.atdhe.com) or www.justintv.com (http://www.justintv.com) and you might be able to watch it
I think RTE are showing the game

[CJTheGull]

I think RTE are showing the game

Yep - the game is live on RTÉ2 so fair play to them.

[DeLorean]

There'll be some flicking going on tomorrow night I'd say. Italy v Bulgaria, Northern Ireland v Slovakia, Scotland v Holland and to a far lesser extent England v Croatia.

Other huge matches include:
Hungary v Portugal
Latvia v Switzerland
Serbia v France
Slovenia v Poland

Like the majority I'm hoping for a draw in Italy v Bulgaria match. I think it's pretty much a fact that this is the best result. If we can't beat Montenegro at home guarantee staying ahead of Bulgaria then we haven't much business in a playoff anyway. Plus there's every chance Bulgaria could drop more points in Cyprus.
Prediction: Italy 2-0 Bulgaria.

[Duggie]

lads i could see italy losing to bulgaria. i cant see italy scoring at the minute, there very average. buffon is keeping them ticking over at the minute with his saves. few twists and turns in this group yet.

[elroy]

There'll be some flicking going on tomorrow night I'd say. Italy v Bulgaria, Northern Ireland v Slovakia, Scotland v Holland and to a far lesser extent England v Croatia.

Other huge matches include:
Hungary v Portugal
Latvia v Switzerland
Serbia v France
Slovenia v Poland

Like the majority I'm hoping for a draw in Italy v Bulgaria match. I think it's pretty much a fact that this is the best result. If we can't beat Montenegro at home guarantee staying ahead of Bulgaria then we haven't much business in a playoff anyway. Plus there's every chance Bulgaria could drop more points in Cyprus.
Prediction: Italy 2-0 Bulgaria.

So we probably looking for a
Italy/Bulgaria draw
Scotland draw/defeat
Croatia draw/defeat
Hungry/Portugal draw
Latvia/Swiss draw
Serbia/France draw
NI/Slovakia draw

[DeLorean]

I'm not too bothered about that 2nd place table really, if we do our job we'll be safe enough I'd imagine. Maybe it would be nice for Georgia to overtake Montenegro alright so that our 6pts against them would count. Also if you are worried about that, Serbia beating France would be far better than a draw. I just listed those game because they are huge games within their groups, not necessarily for us.

[eirebhoy]

Italy haven't lost at home in a competitive in 10 years to the week.

[DeLorean]

Italy haven't lost at home in a competitive in 10 years to the week.

They won't either. They're not nearly as bad as people on here are making them out to be. Even if the WC win of 3 years ago can be ignored they were only a penalty shoot out away from reaching the Euro semis, and if they had won the penalties I would have fancied them to win it (ie. beat Russia in Semi and Germany in the Final).

[tetsujin1979]

Italy haven't lost at home in a competitive in 10 years to the week.
neither had Israel until last saturday....

[Thommo]

Berbatov seems up for it normally when he fancies it Bulgaria play well.
Bulgaria know they can't lose and the Italians are probably of the mindset that if they draw tomorrow night they will have to get something out of the Irish game in October so a victory would obviosuly put them in pole position knowing a draw in Dublin would make them group winners.

Hoping for a draw!
This is not the greatest Italian side we have ever seen the Italian press is on Lippi's back about their goal threat so a 0-0 draw would be perfect.
Then hopefully we can get into pole position come 10:00 p.m. on the 10th of October with a famous victory, followed by a home victory against Montenegro on the following Wed and South Africa beckons.
Then the hard work begins will have to have a word with those nice Credit Union people about a loan!

[pineapple stu]

Who beat Italy ten years ago?

Edit - Denmark, 3-2

Napoli (Stadio San Paolo) - Wednesday, 8 September 1999 - h. 20,45
ITALIA - DENMARK 2-3 (2-1) IX European Championship of Nations "XI Henri Delaunay Cup" (Qualification Group 1, 7th Match)
ITALIA: Buffon (Parma) 10, Panucci II (Inter) 18, Nesta (Lazio) 21,
Cannavaro I (Parma) 29, Pancaro (Lazio) 3, Fuser (Parma) 23, D.
Baggio (Parma) 59 (46' Giannichedda (Udinese) 3), Albertini (Milan)
64 (cap.), Di Francesco (Roma) 11 (70' Conte I (Juventus) 14),
Inzaghi I (Juventus) 15, Vieri I (Inter) 18 (77' Totti (Roma) 8).
Coach: D. Zoff. Subs bench: Toldo (Fiorentina), Negro (Lazio),
Vanoli (Parma), Chiesa (Fiorentina).
DENMARK: Schmeichel (cap.), Colding, Høgh, Henriksen, Heintze, Helveg (52'
Goldbaek), A. Nielsen, Tofting (52' Wieghorst), Jørgensen, Tomasson
(85' Schjonberg), Sand. Coach: B. Johansson. Subs bench: Soerensen,
Laursen, B. Nielsen, Moller.
Referee: Jol (Netherlands).
Scorers: 10' Fuser (I), 39' Vieri I (I), 40' Jørgensen pen., 57' Wieghorst, 64' Tomasson
Attendance: 46,919 buyers
Note: 80' sent off Wieghorst, 88' Giannicchedda sent off. Wieghorst scorers the 600th goal
against Italy.

[DeLorean]

neither had Israel until last saturday....

They lost at home to Croatia 4-3 in a qualifier for the Euros. I'm sure they lost a few more too over the last 10 yrs and drawn a bucket load so it's hardly the same thing.

[Noelys Guitar]

Bulgaria to win. This is Bulgaria's last throw of the dice. They must win the game and for me that is bad news for a very poor Italian team (by their standards). The best forward of both teams is Berbatov (when he actually turns up). Petrov likes big games and can cause Italy a lot of problems. Might not be the best result for us but I see Bulgaria winning this one.

[Duggie]

They won't either. They're not nearly as bad as people on here are making them out to be. Even if the WC win of 3 years ago can be ignored they were only a penalty shoot out away from reaching the Euro semis, and if they had won the penalties I would have fancied them to win it (ie. beat Russia in Semi and Germany in the Final).

they really are poor. i follow italian football and compared to past italian teams this is def the worse ive seen. upfront they are struggling bigtime. rossi,iaquinta and quagliarella seems to be his main 3. gilardinho i would fear more but lippi dosent seem to fancy him that much. buffon is keeping them in games, hes amazing. he wont pick cassano, totti is retired, del piero dosent seem to be considered, hes still playing well tho. all and all there is nothing much about this italian side. i hope its a draw tomorrow night but looking at bulgaria knocking 4 past montenegro i could see them at least getting a point. basically italy are relying on there midfield to score in games but there not doing that.

[DeLorean]

I think Noely's Guitar nailed it in saying "by their standards". They are still the best team in the group by a distance. They didn't really have a striker of note in the WC win either in Luca Toni. Totti was playing though (although poorly) and Del Piero was being used from the bench. They still scored 11 goals in 7 qualifying matches, og's or otherwise. Qualification is a formality for Italy, it's taken for granted and they don't strain themselves too much til it matters. They were exceptionally poor in the Confederations Cup but again I'm not sure that's much of an issue for them either.

[Duggie]

They are still the best team in the group by a distance.

apart from there central midfielders i think were a better side. keepers evenly matched. dunne and cannavaro both dominant at the back. italy dont really use wingers that much maybe cameronasi but mcgeady is better. were def better upfront, so IMO were just as good. granted they are top though.

[DeLorean]

apart from there central midfielders i think were a better side. keepers evenly matched. dunne and cannavaro both dominant at the back. italy dont really use wingers that much maybe cameronasi but mcgeady is better. were def better upfront, so IMO were just as good. granted they are top though.

We may have better forwards but they are technically a far better side. They utilise their full backs very well in Grosso and Zambrotta. We couldn't even if we wanted to with Kilbane and O'Shea. Whelan and Andrews wouldn't get on the Italian ladies team.

[eirebhoy]

apart from there central midfielders i think were a better side.
De Rossi, Pirlo, Gattuso, Aquilani, etc. They've tons of midfielders on a completely different level to ours. Their defence is world class, far from our level. We match them up front but that's it.

[Murfinator]

Was he really suggesting that Whelan and Andrews are better than De Rossi and Pirlo? :D

I'm intrigued for the match tomorrow night, Italy have the better side on paper but are really on dire form at the moment. Not just as a side but a lot of their experienced players are in poor form at their club sides as well. If Bulgaria are gutsy enough they're there for the taking but it won't be easy.

Hopefully it'll be a draw, no real advantage to us if Italy loses, we need to beat them either way.

[SuperDave]

Who beat Italy ten years ago?

Edit - Denmark, 3-2

Napoli (Stadio San Paolo) - Wednesday, 8 September 1999 - h. 20,45
ITALIA - DENMARK 2-3 (2-1) IX European Championship of Nations "XI Henri Delaunay Cup" (Qualification Group 1, 7th Match)
ITALIA: Buffon (Parma) 10, Panucci II (Inter) 18, Nesta (Lazio) 21,
Cannavaro I (Parma) 29, Pancaro (Lazio) 3, Fuser (Parma) 23, D.
Baggio (Parma) 59 (46' Giannichedda (Udinese) 3), Albertini (Milan)
64 (cap.), Di Francesco (Roma) 11 (70' Conte I (Juventus) 14),
Inzaghi I (Juventus) 15, Vieri I (Inter) 18 (77' Totti (Roma) 8).
Coach: D. Zoff. Subs bench: Toldo (Fiorentina), Negro (Lazio),
Vanoli (Parma), Chiesa (Fiorentina).
DENMARK: Schmeichel (cap.), Colding, Høgh, Henriksen, Heintze, Helveg (52'
Goldbaek), A. Nielsen, Tofting (52' Wieghorst), Jørgensen, Tomasson
(85' Schjonberg), Sand. Coach: B. Johansson. Subs bench: Soerensen,
Laursen, B. Nielsen, Moller.
Referee: Jol (Netherlands).
Scorers: 10' Fuser (I), 39' Vieri I (I), 40' Jørgensen pen., 57' Wieghorst, 64' Tomasson
Attendance: 46,919 buyers
Note: 80' sent off Wieghorst, 88' Giannicchedda sent off. Wieghorst scorers the 600th goal
against Italy.

three of the four all time players for italy whose surnames ended in an consonant involved that night..... Zoff, Fuser and Buffon.... interesting stat.

[pineapple stu]

What a bizarre stat.

Morgan De Sanctis is the only other one I could find after a quick google?

[kingdom hoop]

I'll predict a draw.
Italy's form in this campaign must be a source of inspiration for Bulgaria, and a source of doubt in the normally unflappable Italian minds. If you take our games against the two, you'd say Bulgaria are the better side, and certainly good enough to get a draw.
Bulgaria will have gained confidence from scoring four at the weekend, and they know they really have to get a result or their World Cup aspirations will be thrown upon a Turin scrapheap like many a rusty Fiat. Contemplating that unpleasant spectre should imbue the Bulgars with the requisite patience and determination. Italy, meanwhile, may not be too sure what they have to do - "do we really have to win; is a draw ok; even if we lose is it that bad?" Perhaps a lack of conviction in their minds will pollute their play on the field; perhaps, after tomorrow, we will be certain two home wins and we're away off to Africa. A boy can but dream.

[SuperDave]

What a bizarre stat.

Morgan De Sanctis is the only other one I could find after a quick google?

ah ****, there's loads of them.... maybe it was a different stat i heard of, like in the last ten years or something.... i dunno.

[eirebhoy]

Probable teams according to Gazzetta.

Italy (4-3-3):
GK - Buffon; LB - Grosso, CD - Chiellini, CD - Cannavaro, RB - Zambrotta; CM - De Rossi, CM - Marchisio, CM - Camoranesi; SC - Pepe, SC - Gilardino, SC - Iaquinta

Bulgaria (4-4-2): GK - Ivankov; LB - Milanov, CD - Stoyanov, CD - Angelov, RB - Manolev; ML - M.Petrov, MC - St. Petrov, MC - Yankov, MR - Kishishev; SC - Rangelov, SC - Berbatov.

[Duggie]

gilardino starts with iaquinta which is good news for italy. hes in good form. rossi started against georgia.

[geysir]

Strange days indeed.
Irish fans cheering on Bulgaria to get something out of a game.

Nobody told me there'd be days like these

[Murfinator]

I don't rate gilardino or Iaquinta particularly highly. Rossi is a top player although maybe difficult to accommodate, still can't help but feel they're missing out without him.
Pepe is average at best.

Toni has been dropped at Bayern with Cassano and Del Piero consistently being overlooked despite their form. Totti insists he is sticking to his retirement too. Have to feel that Italy are going to be having problems getting goals in the future.

[bennocelt]

They won't either. They're not nearly as bad as people on here are making them out to be. Even if the WC win of 3 years ago can be ignored they were only a penalty shoot out away from reaching the Euro semis, and if they had won the penalties I would have fancied them to win it (ie. beat Russia in Semi and Germany in the Final).

ah to be fair they are really, have you seen Luca Toni:eek:

[eirebhoy]

ah to be fair they are really, have you seen Luca Toni:eek:
He didn't make the squad...

[Murfinator]

A bit like Ibrahimovic, Toni never seems to do it on the big stage but he's a damn fine player normally, he was instrumental in his first 18 months for Bayern and one of the best targetmen I've ever seen.

But he cokes during big games so the prawn sandwich brigade thinks he's some class of god awful player. :D

[DeLorean]

ah to be fair they are really, have you seen Luca Toni:eek:

Yes and they won the WC with him in the team (or should I say despite him being in the team)

I would be amazed if they didn't make the knock out stages of the WC and once they get that far anything could happen. With the exception of Spain I don't think there are too many teams that much better, and certainly nobody would fancy playing them.

[paul_oshea]

Who used to be raving about Toni on here before?!

[paul_oshea]

I thought the coke would make him some class of god brilliant player.

[DeLorean]

Who used to be raving about Toni on here before?!

I actually think the guys a serious handful. The amount of chances he gets, even in big matches, is unreal. He is awkward and a poor finisher but I don't think anyone would really fancy marking him and there's always the chance he could convert a few of those chances by mistake or something!!

[Stuttgart88]

He's a handful alright, but my abiding image of Toni is with his hand on his hips or looking up to the skies in despair as another good chance has eluded him.

[DeLorean]

He's a handful alright, but my abiding image of Toni is with his hand on his hips or looking up to the skies in despair as another good chance has eluded him.

I know what you mean...this sums him up nicely too

http://www2.ahlyegypt.com/photoalbum/data/5605/luca-toni-bayern-.jpg

[Stuttgart88]

He's a serious star though. All the Bayern jerseys in Munich airport have his name on the back. Maybe that's just because it's cheaper than Schweinsteiger though.

(Don't know if Schweinsteiger players for BM, it's just the longest name I could think of)