Squad for Cyprus?

[youngirish]

Come on, if you think they're poor players then that's one thing. But if you can find me a replacement for each who is in a different class then I'd be amazed. Do you really think Whelan is poor, but Chris McCann (2 Premier League games for minnows Burnley) is in a different league?? I don't mean to have a go at McCann, but there's no way he or Fahey are a different class to someone like Whelan. If you wanted to argue that one would be a slightly better option than the other then that is one thing, I'd disagree and strongly disagree on the basis of how the squad should line out, but to suggest Whelan is a nothing player but McCann or Fahey is International class is ludicrous.
I'd suggest you know little about McCann or Fahey in the same way you slagged off St Ledger when it was suggested he would be a better alternative to Bruce and McShane using the same arguments as above without knowing anything about him. Fact is none of them are world class but Whelan is a sh*t Premiership player who won't get more than a handful of games for his club team this season while McCann and Fahey are 2 of the better players for their respective teams in the same league. Are we replacing sh*t with world class? No. But replacing sh*t with at least average is a step up in my opinion. Our central midfield has been shocking this campaign once Reid got injured and Andrews is a better player than Whelan so do the maths.

McCann was also a better player than Whelan in the Championship 2 seasons ago so I'd be fairly certain he's still better now.

[Jicked]

For god's sake, what I said about St Ledger was that the huge fuss being kicked up about him was way over the top. I haven't changed that opinion, I don't think there's a huge huge difference between St Ledger and Bruce. St Ledger did well in Sofia and I was delighted for him. As thedoc even says above he's not in contention for a starting role yet, and his performance against Australia wasn't very good. Simiarly if Bruce was put in I'd be confident he could dig out a big performance like St Ledger did in Sofia, or McShane did against Czech Republic, but obviously isn't going to be a great option to start in this campaign.

I'd wager that I've seen Fahey far more than you have. He's a good player. He's Premier League quality and I'll be delighted to see him do well there. But he's not in a different class to Whelan.
Whelan plays a different role, one which is more useful to this team. We've gone to Cyprus and places like that with attacking midfielders like Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland and been overrun. If we put in Fahey and McCann that's exactly what would happen. Since Fahey isn't in a different class to Whelan, he's not worth putting in and messing up the balance of the midfield for. Stephen Ireland would be worth messing up that defensive balance for because he simply offers so much.

[geysir]

Bruce is doing well at Ipswich by all accounts.
If we had a sure bet at RB, then O'Shea probably would start at CM alongside Dunne with Ledger being broken in more gently.

I wonder will KK hang on to his starting place?

[eirebhoy]

“How many games have you seen these players? McCann, against Manchester United, he touched the ball four times in 90 minutes. Did you see the game?”

Did Trap really say this? That's a stupid thing to say and I hope McCann doesn't see this quote.

He played 19 passes, 17 succesful. That's not a lot but it was backs to the walls against a world class team.
3 interceptions, 5 tackles, 2 clearances, won 1 freekick.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create

I do think McCann could be a lot more dominant, same as James McCarthy, but it's no good for Trap to be exaggerating like that. Especially when Glen Whelan had the exact same amount of touches that night against Liverpool and Andrews had less at home to Man City.

[youngirish]

“How many games have you seen these players? McCann, against Manchester United, he touched the ball four times in 90 minutes. Did you see the game?”

Did Trap really say this? That's a stupid thing to say and I hope McCann doesn't see this quote.


It would be a ridiculously stupid quote if he did indeed say that. I wonder how many times Glenn Whelan touched the ball that same night in his team's 3-0 hammering against Liverpool. Did he even realise he was on the pitch?

[geysir]

We should drop O'Shea after his poor performance for Utd at Burnley:rolleyes:

Guess what part of 'fantasy manager' you guys do not quite understand.


Interesting few titbits from the Trap in the Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/business-as-usual-for-the-two-irelands-99255.html)

Trap had a look at the last away game against Cyprus
"That was a peculiar Ireland," he said yesterday. "Some players were not in good positions. There were one or two injuries. I’m not going to name names but it was not an ideal team."

"We didn’t start well," (against Australia) he said, "and next week I will clarify with the players why. Our normal mentality was missing in the first half. In Cyprus, we can’t afford to do this. We know that they are fast and dangerous – a good, strong team. They are smart too, they look for fouls, they use provocation. It is good that we have had no red cards but you must always be aware of the little things that can make a big difference. We need to be careful, smart and mature.
"And we don’t forget that we lost in Cyprus. So that game and the game against Australia must be treated like an alarm bell. And our last three qualifiers must be treated like three World Cup finals – only with that mentality can we go to South Africa."
"We have to be proud. We have played well in very important games in Italy and Bulgaria. I think now that we can trust ourselves, have confidence in ourselves. The young players have to grow and believe in our possibilities. But it is important not lose concentration for even one moment. They must remember that a game of 90 minutes can change your life."

[elroy]

Garvan starting for Ipswich today but things going from bad to worse for Keano at Ipswich, two nil down at half time!!

[youngirish]

We should drop O'Shea after his poor performance for Utd at Burnley:rolleyes:

Guess what part of 'fantasy manager' you guys do not quite understand.


Interesting few titbits from the Trap in the Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/business-as-usual-for-the-two-irelands-99255.html)


Don't be so stupid. By your logic we should still be picking the players from Charlton's days. Some absolutely ridiculous comments on here you'd think Kilbane, Miller, Whelan etc were destroying the opposition in matches.

If you don't pick players on club form and also don't remove the deadwood from your squad that hasn't been up to the task then why bother ever changing the squad at all?

When do you deem it okay to change the players? When we've been beaten in our last three matches and have no hope of going to the world cup? Bit late then isn't it? In future read over such rubbish before hitting that save button in your post window.

[Colbert Report]

Marc Wilson at Portsmouth played ninety minutes today at right-back against Arsenal. I know he's on a crap team but he's hardly impressed in his three matches so far this season.

[the doc]

For god's sake, what I said about St Ledger was that the huge fuss being kicked up about him was way over the top. I haven't changed that opinion, I don't think there's a huge huge difference between St Ledger and Bruce. St Ledger did well in Sofia and I was delighted for him. As thedoc even says above he's not in contention for a starting role yet, and his performance against Australia wasn't very good. Simiarly if Bruce was put in I'd be confident he could dig out a big performance like St Ledger did in Sofia, or McShane did against Czech Republic, but obviously isn't going to be a great option to start in this campaign.

I'd wager that I've seen Fahey far more than you have. He's a good player. He's Premier League quality and I'll be delighted to see him do well there. But he's not in a different class to Whelan.
Whelan plays a different role, one which is more useful to this team. We've gone to Cyprus and places like that with attacking midfielders like Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland and been overrun. If we put in Fahey and McCann that's exactly what would happen. Since Fahey isn't in a different class to Whelan, he's not worth putting in and messing up the balance of the midfield for. Stephen Ireland would be worth messing up that defensive balance for because he simply offers so much.

Bruce isn't in the same class as St Ledger!

[Stuttgart88]

I think those arguing for McCann over Whelan are missing the point that like-for-like McCann is far more comparable to Andrews. The only thing I see that McCann has over Andrews right now is that he's young and hence is likely to get better. Right now though Andrews deserves his spot.

I like Fahey and think he's a genuine talent but I think people are forgetting that Whelan really finished last season with the bit between his teeth at Stoke. Had he just made the move over the water and not Fahey I suspect a lot of people here would be more behind Whelan.

I think Fahey should be in the squad ahead of Miller but in reality it's all about Whelan, Andrews and Gibson for midfield.

I've a lot of time for Garvan. Quality player, sublime passer and getting more two footed. Makes mistakes and loses possession but is the type of player I personally would watch week in week out ahead of a Mascherano / Lucas etc. Am I bothered he's not in the Cyprus squad? No.

[Jicked]

Don't be so stupid. By your logic we should still be picking the players from Charlton's days. Some absolutely ridiculous comments on here you'd think Kilbane, Miller, Whelan etc were destroying the opposition in matches.


Honestly now, do you really think the players you'd sub in for those guys would 'destroy' Bulgaria and Italy away? Ward, Fahey and Carlsey. You're trying to tell us that those players would destroy Italy?

[tetsujin1979]

He played 19 passes, 17 succesful. That's not a lot but it was backs to the walls against a world class team.
3 interceptions, 5 tackles, 2 clearances, won 1 freekick.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create
I had a look at that, actually I think McCann and Whelan would compliment each other really well in the middle of the park, with McCann on the left and Whelan on the right
http://tetsujin1979.googlepages.com/WhelanVSBirmingham-McCannVSEverton.JPGhttp://tetsujin1979.googlepages.com/WhelanVSLiverpool-McCannVSManUtd.JPG

[Stuttgart88]

I had a look at that, actually I think McCann and Whelan would compliment each other really well in the middle of the park, with McCann on the left and Whelan on the right
http://tetsujin1979.googlepages.com/WhelanVSBirmingham-McCannVSEverton.JPGhttp://tetsujin1979.googlepages.com/WhelanVSLiverpool-McCannVSManUtd.JPGDoesn't that endorse my view though, that McCann and Andrews are the two most similar to each other and that Andrews and Whelen complement each other?

I think even youngirish acknowledged recently that right now at this time Andrews justifies being picked over McCann.

[youngirish]

Doesn't that endorse my view though, that McCann and Andrews are the two most similar to each other and that Andrews and Whelen complement each other?

I think even youngirish acknowledged recently that right now at this time Andrews justifies being picked over McCann.

I would have McCann instead of Miller Stutts and start easing him into the squad now. However, I also believe he's a better player than Whelan and has been for years. Andrews has been better for Ireland than Whelan imo. At least he offers something going forward.

Neither are particularly good though which is why we get dominated by average teams in midfield and offer little creativity from the centre. Central midfield is the weakest part of our team. We could possibly get away with a dodgy left back but a dodgy central midfield means you can't control the game.

[tetsujin1979]

I've been thinking about Trapattoni's comments that Miller is in the squad ahead of McCann, Mccarthy, Fahey, etc because he "knows the system". I don't think he'll start, it's going to be 2 from Whelan, Andrews and Gibson. However, should any of them get injured during the game, he's the ideal player on the bench because he "knows the system" Trapattoni is playing, and can come on and slot right in.
Trapattoni has already lamented the amount of time an international squad spends together before a game and, with a player whom he has not worked with before, more time than is available would be needed to drill in the formation, movement, marking schemes, etc of the team's tactics.
I think it would have been better for us if he had explained this a bit more.

[weldoninhio]

Folan was superb for us in Italy, has just got even more game time with Robbie under his belt, and has started the last two games in the Premier League.
Morisson scored 10 league goals playing up front all season for Coventry.
But since he scored a brace on the telly on opening day you think he'd be a better option :confused: Another thing worth considering, imagine what it would do to confidence/squad morale if you were to drop Folan for someone like Morisson. Then in the new year when Morisson has stopped scoring dropping him for Jon Macken who got a goal in a televised FA Cup 3rd round game.

You could argue that you should put Morisson in for Best (though personally I'd much rather Best in the squad), but then people would be whinging about Trap not developing new players. No?

Clinto's work rate is excellent and defenders know they have been in a game with him. His international goals to games ratio is almost identical to Doyles and he's never let his country down while playing for us, but you think he shouldn't be in the squad ahead of:

Shane Long: Only 13 starts (26 sub apps) and 9 goals
Long is going nowhere fast in a Reading side who are a shadow of their former selves.

Caleb Folan: Only 2 starts and 1 goal
Will be back on the bench at Hull since they signed a couple of strikers.

[tetsujin1979]

Cyprus squad announced for Ireland and Montenegro games: http://soccerrepublic.eircom.net/News/goalkeeperworriesforcypruscoach.aspx
Konstantinou and Makrides will not play against Ireland because of suspension

Goalkeepers
Michalis Morfis (APOEL), Sofronis Avgoustis (Aris Limassol)
Defenders
Marios Elia (APOEL), Elias Charalambous (Omonia), Paraskevas Christou (Omonia), Alexis Garpozis (Anorthosis), Andreas Constantinou (Anorthosis), Marios Nicolaou (Panionios), Stelios Okkarides (Olympiakos Nicosia)
Midfielders
Chrysis Mihail (APOEL), Marinos Satsias (APOEL), Georgios Panagi (Omonia), Andreas Avraam (Apollon), Constantinos Makrides (Metalurh Donetsk), Christos Marangos (Anorthosis), Jason Demetriou (Leyton Orient), Constantinos Charalambides (APOEL)
Forwards
Nektarios Alexandrou (APOEL), Michalis Konstantinou (Omonia), Stathis Aloneftis (Omonia), Yiannis Okkas (Anorthosis), Yiasoumis Yiasoumi (AEK Larnaca)

[tetsujin1979]

Doesn't that endorse my view though, that McCann and Andrews are the two most similar to each other and that Andrews and Whelen complement each other?

Here's a comparison of Andrews and McCann's games so far this season:
http://tetsujin1979.googlepages.com/AndrewsVSMcCann2.JPGhttp://tetsujin1979.googlepages.com/AndrewsVSMcCann1.JPG

seem to take up fairly similar positions alright