Bulgaria V Ireland (Pre Match Thread)

[Razors left peg]

Very good post by supreme Feet and I agree with pretty much all that,the team definately does seem to be heading in the right direction.I think after Bari that not only are the players starting to click and grow in confidence but also Trap has grown more confident that his players have the ability to beat good teams.
Im a nervous wreck already about this game,but Im very confident of beating what is an average enough Bulgaria team..... although I had a dream during the week that we were beaten 2 nil:eek:

[weldoninhio]

Starting to get the ritual wave of unbridled optimism now, imagining how Saturday is going to unfold. When the dust settles on this qualifying campaign, we may well look at the days between the Bulgaria and Italy games in March as a possible turning point.

After the Bulgaria game in Croker I was extremely disappointed; not just with the result but with the lack of urgency, and lack of basic passing, movement and technical skills that our lads were exhibiting. The difference between that night and Bari could not have been more profound. Also compare our dreadful performance against Poland in November to that against Nigeria - there's a marked difference, in terms of getting the basics right, i.e. keeping the ball, and closing players down.

1)I think something may have clicked in Bari. The ghosts of Staunton, Nicosia and Bratislava may have been finally laid to rest. Trapattoni has brought some improving, motivated players in from left-field, nurtured them into the side, and is gradually filling the yawning chasms in the squad which have existed since the mass retirements of 2005/6, deficiencies which were exacerbated by the revolving-door selection policy under our last manager. With 2) the advent of St. Ledger to fill our gaping hole in defence, I think this team is headed in the right direction; returns for Doyle and Steven Reid, and the further development of Foley, could make our team/squad look very strong come the autumn, and well prepared for the tough games then, and a possible playoff. We're a team on the up, at long last. Saturday night may prove to be memorable, if we perform to our ability, and perhaps get a few breaks along the way.

Another reason I feel optimistic is because historically Bulgaria are a lot like us in that they're not at ease with the 'favourites' tag (maybe it's a postcolonial thing). They save their best performances for when their backs are against the wall, like in Croker, when they were missing three top players. With that performance in mind, their local media and fans will be putting huge pressure on Stoilov and their 'stars' to deliver, and to do so in style. That suits us. In their last campaign (Euro 2008), qualification was thrown away because of two draws with Albania and a defeat in Slovenia. They don't like being favourites. Also, consider the fact that they'll be starting Bojinov and Berbatov - two out-and-out CFs - which will free up the centre of the park, unlike in Croker when we were strangled by their 4-5-1 formation.

All of the above could be blind optimism, but at least there's method to the madness; far removed from the straw-clutching that preceded events in Bratislava and Prague. Come on Ireland.

*Sigh* Where to start!!

1) We played against 10 men for almost the whole game in Bari, after a very soft sending off. Nothing clicked, we were extremely lucky.

2) Have i been in a coma for the past year or so?? Or has SSL played one friendly for us? He did look calm and composed in it, but to call it "the advent of SSS" is ridiculous. Especially when you look at the advent of Paul McShane after the Czech game!!!

3) Another reason you feel optomistic is that Bulgaria have their best players back??? Makes sense i suppose :confused:

[eirebhoy]

After the Bulgaria game in Croker I was extremely disappointed; not just with the result but with the lack of urgency, and lack of basic passing, movement and technical skills that our lads were exhibiting. The difference between that night and Bari could not have been more profound. Also compare our dreadful performance against Poland in November to that against Nigeria - there's a marked difference, in terms of getting the basics right, i.e. keeping the ball, and closing players down.
I don't know if it's a coincidence that those games were away from home. Colombia, Norway, Georgia, Montenegro, Italy, Nigeria. They haven't let themselves down at all outside of Dublin.


1) We played against 10 men for almost the whole game in Bari, after a very soft sending off. Nothing clicked, we were extremely lucky.
Rubbish. Absolute rubbish. It was an excellent performance in Italy. They couldn't get the ball of us, we harassed the ball off them. Teams will sit back in many matches and frustrate the opposition, make them look ordinary. We didn't look ordinary in Italy. imo that game was our classiest performance so far. The ball was just constantly being passed along the ground and I wouldn't expect the likes of Croatia or Portugal to do any better than we did that night.

Even if we lost that game in Italy that's the way I want to see us play.

[Duggie]

I don't know if it's a coincidence that those games were away from home. Colombia, Norway, Georgia, Montenegro, Italy, Nigeria. They haven't let themselves down at all outside of Dublin.


Rubbish. Absolute rubbish. It was an excellent performance in Italy. They couldn't get the ball of us, we harassed the ball off them. Teams will sit back in many matches and frustrate the opposition, make them look ordinary. We didn't look ordinary in Italy. imo that game was our classiest performance so far. The ball was just constantly being passed along the ground and I wouldn't expect the likes of Croatia or Portugal to do any better than we did that night.

yep agree, that the way i saw it aswell.

[DeLorean]

We played against 10 men for almost the whole game in Bari, after a very soft sending off. Nothing clicked, we were extremely lucky

Might have been lucky with the sending off but definitely weren't lucky in general to get a draw. It could be argued it would have been a completely different game without the sending off but, knowing the Italians, it might not have been. Don't agree with you there but do appreciate the sense of realism you brought to the table. Nothing wrong with that in my book. Save the blind optimism for the terraces I say.

[Supreme feet]

Or has SSL played one friendly for us? He did look calm and composed in it, but to call it "the advent of SSS" is ridiculous. Especially when you look at the advent of Paul McShane after the Czech game!!!

Suppose I should've qualified that, but my post was long enough as it was. IMO, St. Ledger has added something to the squad, when you consider that he's leapfrogged O'Dea, Bruce and McShane in one swoop. Unlike either of those three, he's highly rated at club level, has won a lot of individual awards, and is obviously an accomplished player. If Trap (a handy defender himself) sees enough in him to start him in a major qualifier, there must be something there. Bruce and O'Dea never got within an asses roar of the starting XI while they were in the squad. The point is, like Foley and Lawrence, St. Ledger is probably in the squad to stay now. It's like a new signing, and gives us defensive options we haven't had up until now, especially considering O'Shea's versatility.

[tetsujin1979]

1) We played against 10 men for almost the whole game in Bari, after a very soft sending off. Nothing clicked, we were extremely lucky.Whatever about your other points, this is way off
If anything, Italy were lucky, with Buffon pulling off a miraculous save from Hunt's looping shot from outside the area to keep them ahead at half time.
According to the report on Sky Sports - http://www.skysports.com/football/match_report/0,19764,11065_2947193,00.html - we absolutley dominated them in every area of the game

Italy Team Statistics Ireland
1 Goals 1
1 1st Half Goals 0
1 Shots on Target 3
1 Shots off Target 5
0 Blocked Shots 4
1 Corners 10
13 Fouls 22
4 Offsides 2
3 Yellow Cards 1
1 Red Cards 0
76 Passing Success 83.4
18 Tackles 21
83.3 Tackles Success 85.7
34.1 Possession 65.9
41.7 Territorial Advant 58.3

to have more than 60% possession against a team like Italy, and in their own backyard, is unheard of

[DeLorean]

Is this the probable team so:

Given
O'Shea
Dunne
St Ledger
Kilbane
McGeady???
Andrews
Whelan
Duff
Folan
Keane

[donalmcdonagh]

Very good post by supreme Feet and I agree with pretty much all that,the team definately does seem to be heading in the right direction.I think after Bari that not only are the players starting to click and grow in confidence but also Trap has grown more confident that his players have the ability to beat good teams.
Im a nervous wreck already about this game,but Im very confident of beating what is an average enough Bulgaria team..... although I had a dream during the week that we were beaten 2 nil:eek:

I have to agree too. The team is begining to take shape. People must also remember is that we havent operated with a proper right back under trap, we have been trying to plug that position until Finnan gets back. Our CB partnership is also a new pairing. As is midfield, the combinations have been changed since day one and we havent had our full strength midfield. Also, we have missed Duffer on several occasions, he is very important to us. All in all Trap has been building, I wish we were further on by now but thats life. I disagree that we have been lucky. The georgia game...stinker from Stephen Kelly, he was a gamble that day, that changed the game for us. Georgia away and montenegro away was good considering the points I outlined at the start of the paragraph. Italy away, we done as much as could be asked against the world champs, and they were rattled, so was Lippi. We are new team in a lot of ways, and to be second in the group is a great achievement, I hope we can beat bulgaria, we are capable, they are good but so are we. Come on Ireland, cant wait for the game, I get a real sense the pressure is building and the players are going to be up for it.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Is this the probable team so:

Given
O'Shea
Dunne
St Ledger
Kilbane
McGeady???
Andrews
Whelan
Duff
Folan
Keane

Sub McGeady for Hunt and I think that's it alright.

[DeLorean]

Sub McGeady for Hunt and I think that's it alright.

Stephen obviously is it? why's that? his ability to track back or something?

[Stuttgart88]

Rubbish. Absolute rubbish. It was an excellent performance in Italy. They couldn't get the ball of us, we harassed the ball off them. Teams will sit back in many matches and frustrate the opposition, make them look ordinary. We didn't look ordinary in Italy.Well said.

I was at Lippi's Italy against Guus Hiddink's Australia in the last World Cup. Italy had a man sent off at 0-0. Australia couldn't get near the opposition's goal for the rest of the game. Italy scored to win the game 1-0.

I think that categorically undermines Misery Personified's view that a result against 10 man Italy in Italy is nothing to be positive about.

[cheifo]

Think result could hinge on Richard Dunnes fitness.He was magnificent in Bari.
Another key element is whether Berbatov can be bothered or not.

[Junior]

Well said.

I was at Lippi's Italy against Guus Hiddink's Australia in the last World Cup. Italy had a man sent off at 0-0. Australia couldn't get near the opposition's goal for the rest of the game. Italy scored to win the game 1-0.

I think that categorically undermines Misery Personified's view that a result against 10 man Italy in Italy is nothing to be positive about.

And if memory serves me right that was more than a bit of good fortune!!!

The Italy result was a great result, if anything it was two points dropped and I dont think the Italians could have complained too much if we had snuck it 1-2 at the death.

[DeLorean]

At least they won't have these guys!!

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40143000/jpg/_40143979_letchkov270.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Park/8885/Gol_94.jpg

[DeLorean]

And if memory serves me right that was more than a bit of good fortune!!!

Nope, not for me. Absolute stone wall penalty, don't know what all the fuss was about at the time.

[Stuttgart88]

Me neither. Dumb tackle which Grosso(?) made the most of but he was 100% entitled to go down as Neill (?) just lunged across him, getting nowhere near the ball.

UK pundits called it completely wrongly as usual. If a defender goes to ground without getting the ball and the attacker loses control as a consequence it's got to be penalised.

[Junior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1kx8aOaSbA

It would never be a freekick outside of the box, therefore shouldnt be a penalty inside the box.

Stupid tackle from Neill I agree, but it didnt result in a foul imo. Simulation from Grosso.

Football is getting too easy for attackers, look at them in a moody manner and you'd almost be in fear of giving away a pen....................

[DeLorean]

Me neither. Dumb tackle which Grosso(?) made the most of but he was 100% entitled to go down as Neill (?) just lunged across him, getting nowhere near the ball.

UK pundits called it completely wrongly as usual. If a defender goes to ground without getting the ball and the attacker loses control as a consequence it's got to be penalised.

He totally blocked off Grosso's path the the ball after Grosso changed direction. I had a friend over from Australia recently and he said it's still a very sour talking point over there. Not totally conclusive and way off the point of this thread but...
http://media.npr.org/news/specials/worldcup2006/photos/getty/australia_200.jpg

[DeLorean]

It would never be a freekick outside of the box, therefore shouldnt be a penalty inside the box.

Whether it would or not have been given as a free outside the box I don't know, but it should be and therefore should be a penalty. Normally people say the opposite anyway, it's far easier to give a free than a penalty.

The onus is on the defender to tackle properly, and rightly so.

[Junior]

Fair enough, Id be fair hacked off it was given against us. Partly because I agree it was a stupid challenge to make but moreso because the attacker simulated a foul and the referee fell for it.

But as you say, lets get thread back on track.........

[Drumcondra 69er]

Stephen obviously is it? why's that? his ability to track back or something?

Yeah, Noel is injured. Hunt would be ahead of McGeady based on his performance in Bari, correct call for me. McGeady has flattered to decieve for us, I'd be a fan but he's been far too inconsitent. Hunt's ball retention earlier in the campaign was lousy alright but he still had a far biger performance against Italy then McGeady has managed in any game so far.

[ken foree]

neil grabbed grosso's ankle with his left hand and cleverly disguised it, peno.

[eirebhoy]

Think result could hinge on Richard Dunnes fitness.He was magnificent in Bari.
Another key element is whether Berbatov can be bothered or not.
Dunne is ok. McShane the only doubt.

btw, we played at home to Bulgaria as Italy played against us. The only difference is that Italy had 1 less attacker but still Whelan dictated the game in Bari as much as Petrov did in Dublin.

[joema]

Hopefully McShane doesn't make it.

Don't cae how bad that sounds...its for the team's best. It is clear the rest of the players don't rate him either.:ball:

[DeLorean]

Whelan dictated the game in Bari as much as Petrov did in Dublin.

Don't think so. Petrov looked a real class act that night and was the stand out player by a mile. Whelan definitely contributed to the Ireland cause but thought it was more a team effort in pinning them back. Definitely wouldn't say he dictated anything.


It is clear the rest of the players don't rate him either.:ball:

How so?

[joema]

Don't think so. Petrov looked a real class act that night and was the stand out player by a mile. Whelan definitely contributed to the Ireland cause but thought it was more a team effort in pinning them back. Definitely wouldn't say he dictated anything.



How so?

Side note I know, but I agree with your first point....

As for "how so"?

He regularly gets a bollocking from his team mates, one instance against Italy particularly stands out. Can't really describe it tbh but there was a group of us watching the match at home an we all noticed it clearly.

Most of the lads don't rate him, certainly not as a right back. Having played in many teams myself where this has been the case, it should not be seen as all that surprising...even at this level.

[DeLorean]

He regularly gets a bollocking from his team mates, one instance against Italy particularly stands out. Can't really describe it tbh but there was a group of us watching the match at home an we all noticed it clearly.

Most of the lads don't rate him, certainly not as a right back. Having played in many teams myself where this has been the case, it should not be seen as all that surprising...even at this level.

Well the general assumption would be that they wouldn't rate him anyway to be fair. Didn't actually notice the bollockings myself but I'm sure you're probably right.

[Den Perry]

Lads, what time is Kick Off Irish time?

thanks

[eirebhoy]

Don't think so. Petrov looked a real class act that night and was the stand out player by a mile. Whelan definitely contributed to the Ireland cause but thought it was more a team effort in pinning them back. Definitely wouldn't say he dictated anything.

He had nearly 20 passes more than everyone else on the pitch (not bad when you consider someone like S.Ireland averages about 30 passes a game!). I'd say he dictated it. Without even seeing any stats Whelan was a 9/10 for me that night. I think we created a lot more against Italy than Bulgaria did against us too.

[DeLorean]

lads, what time is kick off irish time?

Thanks

18:30

[DeLorean]

He had nearly 20 passes more than everyone else on the pitch (not bad when you consider someone like S.Ireland averages about 30 passes a game!). I'd say he dictated it. Without even seeing any stats Whelan was a 9/10 for me that night. I think we created a lot more against Italy than Bulgaria did against us too.

Those stats do nothing for me to be honest. Fair enough they're there and there's no disputing them but I find them pointless. Petrov took control of the game in the second half in particular. He demanded the ball and used it constructively all the time, there was a real purpose to what he was trying to do. Doesn't matter how many chances came from it, he did his bit and as it happens he was mainly responsible for the goal. Whelan tipped around the place and was more available to receive possession than he had been in the previous matches alright but I don't feel it was on the same level. That's basically because he's not on the same level anyway. Italy allowed Ireland have possession and Whelan was loving it cos he felt more comfortable receiving the ball. A solid 7/10 which was a monumental improvement from his previous efforts but Petrov would have got the 9/10 for me alright. My biggest fear would be that Whelan wouldn't even attempt to control and game with less space as I'm sure Petrov would.

[eirebhoy]

Well stats aside. I thought Whelan was a 9/10 vs Italy and I thought it was our classiest performance under Trap. We obviously look for different things in Whelan because you thought he was anonymous in Mainz when I thought he was motm without his goal.

[DeLorean]

Well stats aside. I thought Whelan was a 9/10 vs Italy and I thought it was our classiest performance under Trap. We obviously look for different things in Whelan because you thought he was anonymous in Mainz when I thought he was motm without his goal.

True.

[Den Perry]

18:30

thanks

[Stuttgart88]

wrt how the other players rate McShane, I thought Dunne's words of praise for St. Ledger spoke volumes.

[youngirish]

Dunne is ok. McShane the only doubt.

btw, we played at home to Bulgaria as Italy played against us. The only difference is that Italy had 1 less attacker but still Whelan dictated the game in Bari as much as Petrov did in Dublin.

eirebhoy you see what you want to see. Andrews was more impressive than Whelan in Bari by a distance. I was surprised he was taken off. Whelan is another average footballer and did not under any circumstances dictate anything in Italy. He'll be deemed surplus to requirements with the emergence of Garvan, McCann or McCarthy over the next couple of seasons. Dictated play my ar*e. What games are you watching?

All this nonsense regarding the performance in Italy is the usual hyperbole you hear on this forum. We were about 2 minutes away from being beaten by the poorest Italian team I've seen in years a team that played with 10 men for 90 minutes with a central defender over 35 years of age that is way past his best and another pair of fullbacks well into their 30's. Buffon had little to do over the 90 minutes considering the situation. I wonder how different the performance would be remembered on here if that last minute equaliser hadn't hit the back of the net. Some of you really do need to wake up and smell the cornflakes.

[tetsujin1979]

Buffon had little to do over the 90 minutes considering the situation.The situation involved sitting behind 2 banks of 4 players, who point blank refused to get out of their own half and were set up to defend a 1-0 lead for rest of the game. And he still had to make more saves than Given.

[youngirish]

The situation involved sitting behind 2 banks of 4 players, who point blank refused to get out of their own half and were set up to defend a 1-0 lead for rest of the game. And he still had to make more saves than Given.

Italy broke and had other chances to score. I remember McShane in particular looking dodgy on a few occasions.

[geysir]

The point is, even with a dodgy McShane (along with Keogh just up ahead of him) we were able to get a stranglehold on that game
No mean achievement.

[tetsujin1979]

Italy broke and had other chances to score. I remember McShane in particular looking dodgy on a few occasions.
according to this - http://www.skysports.com/football/match_report/0,19764,11065_2947193,00.html - they only had 2 shots in the whole game, including the goal

[tetsujin1979]

Italy broke and had other chances to score. I remember McShane in particular looking dodgy on a few occasions.
dodgy or not, we still only allowed them 2 shots on target in the whole game, according to this, including the goal - http://www.skysports.com/football/match_report/0,19764,11065_2947193,00.html

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think Whelan dictated anything myself but I thought he played an important part in the best midfield performance we've put in for a while. The goal might have come late but it was fully deserved on the basis of the 75 minutes that preceded it.

So what if it was the poorest Italian team in ages? It was still Italy, managed by Lippi, in Italy. We were missing players too and were carrying some passengers. We're Ireland not bleedin' Argentina. I say it was a good performance and a good result.

There's nothing wrong or hyperbolic with trumpeting a good performance YI. You appreciate as much as anyone the need to hang on in while we can as the team will be a fair bit better in 12 months.

[youngirish]

according to this - http://www.skysports.com/football/match_report/0,19764,11065_2947193,00.html - they only had 2 shots in the whole game, including the goal

They broke away on a few occasions and had a good chance in the first half to go 2-0 up (the best chance of the first half) when they hit the side netting.



There's nothing wrong or hyperbolic with trumpeting a good performance YI. You appreciate as much as anyone the need to hang on in while we can as the team will be a fair bit better in 12 months.
True Stutts I do appreciate the need to hang on. I just wouldn't get too carried away by a performance against a poor Italian team reduced harshly to 10 men after a couple of minutes especially considering we were very poor (imo) against Cyprus, Georgia and Bulgaria in our previous 3 games.

Don't get me wrong I think that Trapatonni is doing a fantastic job with some very weak players in the team but we'll need some new blood if we want to be competitive in the play-offs and hopefully afterwards the group stages of the World Cup itself. St Ledger for McShane is a step in the right direction but we also need a decent winger, a couple of good central midfield players and a good left back before we will be dictating play against any half-useful teams.

[carloz]

I'm relativly confident going into the game for some reason, and that's basically due to our performances away from home.
Away to Norway: 1st half was one of the better performances by an irish team in the last number of years. impressive
Away to Georgia in Germany: Again looked quite impressive and composed until stoppage time
Away to Montenegro: Good professional display in which we were arguably the better team
Away to Italy: Great performance, albeit against 10 men for most of the games

This is in comparrisson to the toothless home performances against Cyprus, Bulgaria and Georgia.

Played Football Manager last night and in it this fixture ended up 2-2, after we had conceded 2 early goals. A bit like our Israel game a few years ago reversed

[Noelys Guitar]

The atmosphere tomorrow will be nothing like that faced by Irish teams in the past. Burning torches ala 1977. And no national Bulgarian trumpet playing championships mysteriously held at 3.04am outside the Irish team hotel. The ref should be OK. Come on Ireland!

[Stuttgart88]

My cousin was at the 1987(?) game when we lost 1-0 in the rain. He said the army had their guns pointed at them every time the Irish stood up.

[weldoninhio]

eirebhoy you see what you want to see. Andrews was more impressive than Whelan in Bari by a distance. I was surprised he was taken off. Whelan is another average footballer and did not under any circumstances dictate anything in Italy. He'll be deemed surplus to requirements with the emergence of Garvan, McCann or McCarthy over the next couple of seasons. Dictated play my ar*e. What games are you watching?

All this nonsense regarding the performance in Italy is the usual hyperbole you hear on this forum. We were about 2 minutes away from being beaten by the poorest Italian team I've seen in years a team that played with 10 men for 90 minutes with a central defender over 35 years of age that is way past his best and another pair of fullbacks well into their 30's. Buffon had little to do over the 90 minutes considering the situation. I wonder how different the performance would be remembered on here if that last minute equaliser hadn't hit the back of the net. Some of you really do need to wake up and smell the cornflakes.

FInally, someone else who can watch the Irish team and doesn't see Brazil 1974!!

[Stuttgart88]

FInally, someone else who can watch the Irish team and doesn't see Brazil 1974!!Daft post & total exaggeration. There have been plenty of measured posts here. Just because none meets your standard of persistent negativity doesn't mean anyone's getting carried away. And if anyone does get a bit carried away it's because it's what fans do.

[tetsujin1979]

FInally, someone else who can watch the Irish team and doesn't see Brazil 1974!!
Brazil were crap (by their standards) at the 74 World Cup, drawing 0-0 with Yugoslavia and Scotland, before beating Zaire 3-0 (remember the free kick?) and qualifying for the second round on goal difference, a single goal, ahead of Scotland.
They eventually finished fourth, losing to Poland in the 3rd place play off.