Bulgaria V Ireland (Pre Match Thread)

[Brendan 82]

complete and utter rubbish, how many years did we watch him embarrass himself in the green jersey, o'shea isnt fit to lace duffs boots imo

I love that Hall & Oates song...."Your out of touch"

[weldoninhio]

Ahhh get off your hobby horse you know what I mean. Miller is the only other central midfielder in the squad he is not going to call up any of the guys you say and play them ahead of Miller.

My point exactly!!

[NeilMcD]

Thats another discussion. The question, was what do we do if Wheland does not make it and I said that Miller plays. I would not have him as the 3rd choice midfielder in the squad but thats where we are and Trap knows way more about football than I do.

[irishfan86]

Well, I've been critical of Miller in the past, but his performance against Nigeria has made me feel a bit better about his presence in the squad.

On current form, the likes of Chris McCann should be in the squad, but in terms of experience and accomplishments, Miller has the edge over McCann.

He has played Champions' League matches, played a key role in helping Sunderland to promotion, and has played 20 matches with the international side.

The gap in ability is not as wide as some would think, and there is something to be said about a 28 year old versus a 20 year old when we're playing an away game in a hostile environment.

[Stuttgart88]

I couldn't imagine me saying anything positive about Miller a week ago but I think you're absolutely right.

[richieos]

according to TOD on rte news, whelan and keane are expected to be fit, given wasnt even mentioned so one can assume he'll be fit too

[NeilMcD]

Yeah both Keane and Whelan trained. Dunne did not train but that was just as a pre caution.

[weldoninhio]

Well, I've been critical of Miller in the past, but his performance against Nigeria has made me feel a bit better about his presence in the squad.

On current form, the likes of Chris McCann should be in the squad, but in terms of experience and accomplishments, Miller has the edge over McCann.

He has played Champions' League matches, played a key role in helping Sunderland to promotion, and has played 20 matches with the international side.

The gap in ability is not as wide as some would think, and there is something to be said about a 28 year old versus a 20 year old when we're playing an away game in a hostile environment.

We played against Nigerias second or even third string team. To rebut your arguement, Chris McCann played a big part in helping Burnley to gain promotion to the Premiership, Liam Miller was deemed not worthy of a contract at mid table QPR. What Miller has done in the past is irrelevant, the match he is in the squad for is this Saturday, in the year 2009 not 2006/7.

[Superhoops]

according to TOD on rte news, whelan and keane are expected to be fit, given wasnt even mentioned so one can assume he'll be fit too

I have a bad feeling that everything is not OK with Shay. Too quiet for my liking after all the ballyhoo about him playing at Fulham. Why the late call up for 2 keepers if we only need 1 to travel to cover Shay? If both Henderson and Doyle travel then we have to assume Shay is not 100% and they are hoping he will have enough time to be match fit. Hope I'm totally wrong.

[irishfan86]

I have a bad feeling that everything is not OK with Shay. Too quiet for my liking after all the ballyhoo about him playing at Fulham. Why the late call up for 2 keepers if we only need 1 to travel to cover Shay? If both Henderson and Doyle travel then we have to assume Shay is not 100% and they are hoping he will have enough time to be match fit. Hope I'm totally wrong.

Almost all international squads travel with three keepers, so I don't think that's cause for concern.

I'm sure Shay is fine, and when he sat out the training match the other day, it was probably so that Trap could watch the other two guys who he has had little exposure to as of yet.

[Paddy Garcia]

We played against Nigerias second or even third string team. To rebut your arguement, Chris McCann played a big part in helping Burnley to gain promotion to the Premiership, Liam Miller was deemed not worthy of a contract at mid table QPR. What Miller has done in the past is irrelevant, the match he is in the squad for is this Saturday, in the year 2009 not 2006/7.

Agree McCann is our in form central midfielder.

[eirebhoy]

The thing with Miller is, judging by his performance against Nigeria, that he's best as the deep midfielder. His last 2 games have been beside Whelan and 2 before that Carsley who would have been playing that role. He's not a great player, decent, but probably isn't suited to playing beside someone like Whelan.

[Jicked]

What Miller has done in the past is irrelevant, the match he is in the squad for is this Saturday, in the year 2009 not 2006/7.

That's is absolutely ludicrous. Yeah, of course experience has no part to play in a crunch, away international fixtures. :rolleyes:

No manager in their right mind would forget about Miller's experience playing and training with some of the best players in the world, playing in international and Champions League games and having years of playing Premier League and Championship football behind him.
But sure, throw John Joe O'Toole in there because he played well for the U-21s about six months ago and I'm sure he's learnt a lot under Kevin Blackwell (I noticed O'Toole wasn't even in the squad for the play off semi or final, was he injured?) You have to love armchair managers.

[Stuttgart88]

Is McCann even fit? He went off with a bad looking knock after only 25 minutes at Wembley.

Jicked - JJOT was injured.

Don't you just love Weldoninhio's cheery outlook? Nigeria's second or third string team? Didn't a lot of the same team beat a French XI in France straight afterwards? We played pretty much our own second string team against Nigeria.

Glenn Whelan is fit so it's all immaterial anyway.

Next topic to be miserable and pessimistic about?

[Stuttgart88]

The thing with Miller is, judging by his performance against Nigeria, that he's best as the deep midfielder. His last 2 games have been beside Whelan and 2 before that Carsley who would have been playing that role. He's not a great player, decent, but probably isn't suited to playing beside someone like Whelan.Yep, I think he & Andrews complemented each other better.

[Scram]

Yep, I think he & Andrews complemented each other better.

Absolutely, before kick off I heard Andrews say "nice new boots Liam" and Miller say "ooh, and I love the way you fill your shorts Keith "


:)

[Sumac]

On radio this morning it said that Dunne is a risk - injury not clearing up - would be a massive loss

[hunt4the]

I love that Hall & Oates song...."Your out of touch"

I love that song "fickle fan with short term memory loss".
have you ever seen them play? You musn't have.
Duff was our best player at home v cyprus not that long ago
but long enough for you to have forgotten

[Stuttgart88]

On radio this morning it said that Dunne is a risk - injury not clearing up - would be a massive lossWhich station?

The impression I got from the papers is that none of the injuries was a serious concern. This'd be bad alright.

Dunne seems to be leading a rallying call for this game.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I have a bad feeling that everything is not OK with Shay. Too quiet for my liking after all the ballyhoo about him playing at Fulham. Why the late call up for 2 keepers if we only need 1 to travel to cover Shay? If both Henderson and Doyle travel then we have to assume Shay is not 100% and they are hoping he will have enough time to be match fit. Hope I'm totally wrong.


One keeper gets injured in training the day before the game. Back up keeper gets sent off for a handball outside the area in the first minute of the match. Extremely unlikely but you need 3 keepers just in case so I think you're reading too much into that.

I'm more concerned over the fact that Given along with Dunne, Keane and Folan all sat out yesterday, hoping it's just precauntionary but am looking forward to the first reports back from this morning's session confirming all took part.

[Duggie]

Which station?

The impression I got from the papers is that none of the injuries was a serious concern. This'd be bad alright.

Dunne seems to be leading a rallying call for this game.

heard on today fm that dunne was the worse of the lot. but every day we hear something different on these injuries. believe nothing till we see the team sheet.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Which station?

The impression I got from the papers is that none of the injuries was a serious concern. This'd be bad alright.

Dunne seems to be leading a rallying call for this game.

Paul Collins on Today FM said Dunne was the biggest worry of the 4 on those few bullitens where he bothered with the football, it was only the 'Irish and Britsh Lions' (to quote him!) and the GAA on the rest of them!

[Duggie]

that collins would wreck your head with his stupid put on culchie accent he does.:mad:

[weldoninhio]

That's is absolutely ludicrous. Yeah, of course experience has no part to play in a crunch, away international fixtures. :rolleyes:

No manager in their right mind would forget about Miller's experience playing and training with some of the best players in the world, playing in international and Champions League games and having years of playing Premier League and Championship football behind him.
But sure, throw John Joe O'Toole in there because he played well for the U-21s about six months ago and I'm sure he's learnt a lot under Kevin Blackwell (I noticed O'Toole wasn't even in the squad for the play off semi or final, was he injured?) You have to love armchair managers.

Maybe he should bring back Ronnie Whelan or give Liam Brady a game, both have a wealth of experience. Although like Miller they are clubless and haven't played in a while, but it is an away international so experience is paramount.

The experience card is moot when you consider one of Irelands most experienced deep lying midfielders, who is still playing consistently for a big club, who have been promoted to the Prem, has not even been called up to a training squad under Trap. He might be 86 by the time the WC rolls around, but just because you play in a couple of qualifiers doesn't mean you have to travel in the squad for the WC, but Trap is too old, and/or stubborn to recall Carsley when he would do a job in the centre in a game like Saturdays.

And Irishfan_86 brought up Chris McCann, i was just rebutting his arguement.

[gustavo]

complete and utter rubbish, how many years did we watch him embarrass himself in the green jersey, o'shea isnt fit to lace duffs boots imo

Yeah Thierry Henry really rang rings around him the European Cup Final , Oh Wait no he didn't :rolleyes:

Whatever about his failings in the past , he's been one of the best players under Trap which is all that matters

[Jicked]

Maybe he should bring back Ronnie Whelan or give Liam Brady a game, both have a wealth of experience. Although like Miller they are clubless and haven't played in a while, but it is an away international so experience is paramount.

The experience card is moot when you consider one of Irelands most experienced deep lying midfielders, who is still playing consistently for a big club, who have been promoted to the Prem, has not even been called up to a training squad under Trap. He might be 86 by the time the WC rolls around, but just because you play in a couple of qualifiers doesn't mean you have to travel in the squad for the WC, but Trap is too old, and/or stubborn to recall Carsley when he would do a job in the centre in a game like Saturdays.

And Irishfan_86 brought up Chris McCann, i was just rebutting his arguement.

Maybe, just maybe, Trap has looked at Carsley and what he offers and decided he isn't the right option. I'd agree with him. It's nothing to do with his age, or perceived stubborness, Trap has shown himself to be quite flexible thus far and has been willing to bring through numerous new players. Just because he doesn't bring in one 34 year old suddenly he's stubborn?

And way to miss the point completely with your Whelan/Brady comments. Bizarrely I think you actually believe there'd be no harm in chucking out the XI players you've most recently heard on teletext or English club forums, regardless of their age, experience, knowledge of the Irish tactics style and formation or their actual footballing talents. Stan the Man went down the route of "that last result was sh**, sure wikipedia says that Jonathan Douglas/Anto Stokes/Wayne Henderson are getting their game, they must be way better than the muck we had out there..."

[magnumpi]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0604/ireland1.html

anyone wanting St. Ledger to start should be happy. this can only be good news if our other backs are fit.

[weldoninhio]

Maybe, just maybe, Trap has looked at Carsley and what he offers and decided he isn't the right option. I'd agree with him. It's nothing to do with his age, or perceived stubborness, Trap has shown himself to be quite flexible thus far and has been willing to bring through numerous new players. Just because he doesn't bring in one 34 year old suddenly he's stubborn?

And way to miss the point completely with your Whelan/Brady comments. Bizarrely I think you actually believe there'd be no harm in chucking out the XI players you've most recently heard on teletext or English club forums, regardless of their age, experience, knowledge of the Irish tactics style and formation or their actual footballing talents. Stan the Man went down the route of "that last result was sh**, sure wikipedia says that Jonathan Douglas/Anto Stokes/Wayne Henderson are getting their game, they must be way better than the muck we had out there..."

So Trap knows something about Miller that the whole of the rest of the footballing world doesn't??

Maybe, just maybe, Trap has looked at Carsley and what he offers and decided he isn't the right option.

A few DVDs?? He has never been in a Trappaponi squad.

[Jicked]

Trap knew something the rest of the footballing world didn't about Whelan apparently. Caleb Folan was chucked on at a time most of us wouldn't have considered him a great option and did well against Italy. Just because Miller has not had his contract renewed at QPR doesn't mean he's on a footballing scrapheap, unwanted by any football club. The fact QPR is a completely bat**** crazy club and probably plan to replace him with a multi million pound premier league signing doesn't merit consideration?

As for Trap only seeing him on DVDs, how do you know Trap hasn't seen him live? Besides, you're basing your opinion on Carsley, John Joe O'Toole and numerous other second rate players on DVDs/TV aswell! Though I'd imagine Trapattoni is a better judge of what he's looking for when watching those same live games as you.

[geysir]

I wonder are our training sessions getting more competitive or is it the pitch?
Saipan wasn't this bad

http://dynimg.rte.ie/0002578610dr.jpg

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0604/ireland1.html


"The Hull full-back"

Shows you how up to speed the football editorial staff are at RTE

[Sligo Hornet]

I wonder are our training sessions getting more competitive or is it the pitch?
Saipan wasn't this bad

http://dynimg.rte.ie/0002578610dr.jpg


You're right there geysir.......at least under Mick the lads were allowed to play in boots!

[geysir]

Looks like some blood on McShane's shirt, I wonder to whom does is belong?

Can't imagine Jack having one of those carts on standby during a training session,
never mind a chauffeur.

[tetsujin1979]

Looks like some blood on McShane's shirt, I wonder to whom does is belong? You sure that's not just the eircom logo?

[eirebhoy]

A close friend of one of the Ireland players (http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=651460&postcount=42) on a Celtic forum says St Ledger is definitely starting. The only real doubt atm is McShane but injury not supposed to be as bad as is being reported.

[DeLorean]

A close friend of one of the Ireland players (http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=651460&postcount=42) on a Celtic forum says St Ledger is definitely starting. The only real doubt atm is McShane but injury not supposed to be as bad as is being reported.

I'd be inclinded to take his word for it after last time. It makes sense anyway (not like last time!!)

[Den Perry]

Paul Collins on Today FM said Dunne was the biggest worry of the 4 on those few bullitens where he bothered with the football, it was only the 'Irish and Britsh Lions' (to quote him!) and the GAA on the rest of them!

Paul Collins is a moron

[eirebhoy]

I'd be inclinded to take his word for it after last time. It makes sense anyway (not like last time!!)
Yeh I know the player he's pals with and he's been spot on with everything tbh. Pity it's nothing more than confirming what we all guessed anyway, that St Ledger will start. I think the probable team from a couple of days ago looks to be the one.

[ifk101]

Yeah it looks like St Ledger will start against Bulgaria. The tactical switch in Italy and starting with Foley against Nigeria suggests that Trap has lost confidence in McShane.

[corkboy360]

Message from Da: Get of d'internet and back to your fcek!n books or you won't be watching the game at all!
:D....

[eirebhoy]

Yeh I know the player he's pals with and he's been spot on with everything tbh. Pity it's nothing more than confirming what we all guessed anyway, that St Ledger will start. I think the probable team from a couple of days ago looks to be the one.
And apparently St Ledger was described as a "smashing player".

[tricky_colour]

"The Hull full-back"

Shows you how up to speed the football editorial staff are at RTE


Nice to see they have their finger on the pulse ;)

[FarBeag]

If Miller played like he did the other night i would not be unhappy with him starting. I never thought i would say anything positive about him but he proved he has it in him when he can be arsed.

Glad for St Ledger, its about time he was given the chance but i wonder why it took then so long to call him up?

I would also have Lawrence in there. Not so good the other night but is a much better player.

[tricky_colour]

Any how I hear SSL is only 5'11, not very tall for a central defender?

[Stuttgart88]

He's good though. Being 5'11" doesn't stop him being an aerial threat from set pieces either.

I take on board YI's calls to be measured in our enthusiasm for SSL but without him I reckon our defence has one crucial mistake in it (from Kelly or McShane at RB, Kilbane at LB and even Dunne or JOS too).

In a perverse way of looking at it, even if they still make one serious boob with SSL in the team that only levels things up. If an error is avoided by a back 4 with SSL in it then it's a bonus.

But with JOS at RB a vital channel for developing play is opened and whoever plays RHM will get better support. SSL can also develop play at CB. I think our ball retention and starting of moves will be better. McShane struggles to do this at CB and can't do it at all at RB. Bulgaria didn't even mark McShane when he got forward at RB in Dublin. They knew he would/could only ever give the ball back to a double marked McGeady or else just launch a hoof upfield.

Edit, added later: I guess what I'm trying to say that with SSL in the team we're likely to be no worse defensively and we may well be better as a team at actually using the ball.

[Predator]

Any how I hear SSL is only 5'11, not very tall for a central defender?

Fabio Cannavaro is only 5'9". See you tomorrow. ;)

I'm really looking forward to the game. Both teams have so much to lose, so it's sure to be an exciting affair. I want us to beat the Bulgarians, then take that confidence back to Dublin to batter the Italians. Too enthusiastic? I want it to happen, so that's what I'll be willing to happen!!

[Stuttgart88]

I want it to happen, so that's what I'll be willing to happen!!
Good on ya.

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone think Liam Brady might rise to the occasion motivationally , unfinished business with Bulgaria and all that?

Can't beat them Bulgarians often enough, as Geysir said.

[Supreme feet]

Starting to get the ritual wave of unbridled optimism now, imagining how Saturday is going to unfold. When the dust settles on this qualifying campaign, we may well look at the days between the Bulgaria and Italy games in March as a possible turning point.

After the Bulgaria game in Croker I was extremely disappointed; not just with the result but with the lack of urgency, and lack of basic passing, movement and technical skills that our lads were exhibiting. The difference between that night and Bari could not have been more profound. Also compare our dreadful performance against Poland in November to that against Nigeria - there's a marked difference, in terms of getting the basics right, i.e. keeping the ball, and closing players down.

I think something may have clicked in Bari. The ghosts of Staunton, Nicosia and Bratislava may have been finally laid to rest. Trapattoni has brought some improving, motivated players in from left-field, nurtured them into the side, and is gradually filling the yawning chasms in the squad which have existed since the mass retirements of 2005/6, deficiencies which were exacerbated by the revolving-door selection policy under our last manager. With the advent of St. Ledger to fill our gaping hole in defence, I think this team is headed in the right direction; returns for Doyle and Steven Reid, and the further development of Foley, could make our team/squad look very strong come the autumn, and well prepared for the tough games then, and a possible playoff. We're a team on the up, at long last. Saturday night may prove to be memorable, if we perform to our ability, and perhaps get a few breaks along the way.

Another reason I feel optimistic is because historically Bulgaria are a lot like us in that they're not at ease with the 'favourites' tag (maybe it's a postcolonial thing). They save their best performances for when their backs are against the wall, like in Croker, when they were missing three top players. With that performance in mind, their local media and fans will be putting huge pressure on Stoilov and their 'stars' to deliver, and to do so in style. That suits us. In their last campaign (Euro 2008), qualification was thrown away because of two draws with Albania and a defeat in Slovenia. They don't like being favourites. Also, consider the fact that they'll be starting Bojinov and Berbatov - two out-and-out CFs - which will free up the centre of the park, unlike in Croker when we were strangled by their 4-5-1 formation.

All of the above could be blind optimism, but at least there's method to the madness; far removed from the straw-clutching that preceded events in Bratislava and Prague. Come on Ireland.

[richieos]

Starting to get the ritual wave of unbridled optimism now, imagining how Saturday is going to unfold. When the dust settles on this qualifying campaign, we may well look at the days between the Bulgaria and Italy games in March as a possible turning point.

After the Bulgaria game in Croker I was extremely disappointed; not just with the result but with the lack of urgency, and lack of basic passing, movement and technical skills that our lads were exhibiting. The difference between that night and Bari could not have been more profound. Also compare our dreadful performance against Poland in November to that against Nigeria - there's a marked difference, in terms of getting the basics right, i.e. keeping the ball, and closing players down.

I think something may have clicked in Bari. The ghosts of Staunton, Nicosia and Bratislava may have been finally laid to rest. Trapattoni has brought some improving, motivated players in from left-field, nurtured them into the side, and is gradually filling the yawning chasms in the squad which have existed since the mass retirements of 2005/6, deficiencies which were exacerbated by the revolving-door selection policy under our last manager. With the advent of St. Ledger to fill our gaping hole in defence, I think this team is headed in the right direction; returns for Doyle and Steven Reid, and the further development of Foley, could make our team/squad look very strong come the autumn, and well prepared for the tough games then, and a possible playoff. We're a team on the up, at long last. Saturday night may prove to be memorable, if we perform to our ability, and perhaps get a few breaks along the way.

Another reason I feel optimistic is because historically Bulgaria are a lot like us in that they're not at ease with the 'favourites' tag (maybe it's a postcolonial thing). They save their best performances for when their backs are against the wall, like in Croker, when they were missing three top players. With that performance in mind, their local media and fans will be putting huge pressure on Stoilov and their 'stars' to deliver, and to do so in style. That suits us. In their last campaign (Euro 2008), qualification was thrown away because of two draws with Albania and a defeat in Slovenia. They don't like being favourites. Also, consider the fact that they'll be starting Bojinov and Berbatov - two out-and-out CFs - which will free up the centre of the park, unlike in Croker when we were strangled by their 4-5-1 formation.

All of the above could be blind optimism, but at least there's method to the madness; far removed from the straw-clutching that preceded events in Bratislava and Prague. Come on Ireland.

spot on.