Kiely walks out? strong rumour

[drummerboy]

Anyone else hear this. Wasn't happy at not starting the game tomorrow night. Sad if it ends this way.

[Closed Account]

From FAI website


The availability of Given and the need for Trapattoni to give Keiren Westwood some first-team experience with Ireland meant that there was no place in the squad for the game for Dean Kiely, the West Bromwich Albion goalkeeper. He was allowed leave the camp in London and return home.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4320

[paul_oshea]

its funny how the FAI always put things out, but i spose they are right to do that.

In fairness though, if its based around the nigeria game then wouldn't it be a fair gesture if he wanted to spend time with his family and then come back for the plane for bulgaria....

re:read the other thread:
Given,
Foley,
Dunne,
St Ledger,
Nolan,
Lawrence,
Miller,
Andrews,
Duff(or McGeady)
Keane,
Best.

i thought given wasn't fit...

[elroy]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/kielys-departure-leaves-future-in-doubt-412703.html

its understandable yet disappointing.

[rambler14]

Back for Bulgaria?

[elroy]

Just by the fact that Trap is considering calling up Joe Murphy, Colin Doyle or Paddy Kenny I would imagine Kiely wont be back

[gwhite]

Absolutely pointless playing Given in the Nigeria game. Westwood and Kiely should've been given a half each.

[rambler14]

Just by the fact that Trap is considering calling up Joe Murphy, Colin Doyle or Paddy Kenny I would imagine Kiely wont be back

Why call up Colin Doyle he's crap!

[Irish_Praha]

Absolutely pointless playing Given in the Nigeria game. Westwood and Kiely should've been given a half each.

I totally agree but it looks like Given really wants to set an unbeatable record of most caps for an Irish 'keeper and possibly an Irish player. Although it's looking like the second record will be a close call between Keane and Given.
Given has 6 more caps but is four years older than Robbie. However a 'keeper can usually play at a higer level for longer than a striker.
Will depend on injuries, form and competition as to which one will get the most caps. Neither need to worry about the competition in the near future.

[Pauro 76]

I hope not, great time for Kiely, who knows what might have happened had he been playing most of the games for West Brom this season, they might have stayed up!

[Razors left peg]

mmm...amazing how people reactions are different for other players who supposidly walked out on the squad.
This is the 2nd time he has quit the Ireland squad because he wasnt getting picked.Personally Im not too bothered because although I think he is a good keeper he doesnt have many years of football left anyway

[geysir]

I don't think his age matters. His ability as a goalkeeper does matter.
Kiely is man I'd want as Shay's first deputy right up the end of our WC 2010 adventure.

[irishfan86]

Poor man management on Trap's part in my view. With Given's injury problem it was a perfect excuse to give Kiely and Westwood a half each.

That said, I think at this stage Westwood is probably at a similar level to Kiely so I don't really know who would be the better option.

Kiely has the benefit of experience, while Westwood has the benefit of being match sharp.

Disappointed Kiely has decided to leave, but at this stage you can imagine how frustrated he must be feeling by getting snubbed for both club and country when he really hasn't deserved it.

[backstothewall]

If given isn't there we have no hope whether its Kiely or Westwood in goal. If he doesn't want to play for Ireland I say let him go. It amazes me the Stephen Ireland was hung drawn and quatered by some, while Kiely is getting the softly softly treatment. I mean lets face it, Mr Ireland had a much better reason for wanting to go home. Kiely is having a huff at not getting picked ahead of one of the worlds top 3 goalies.

Doyle and Westwood should be the cover for Given. A few caps will be of enormous benefit to them. Kiely is almost finished anyway.

[EalingGreen]

Poor man management on Trap's part in my view.

If you'll forgive me for "intruding on private grief", I am always mindful of something Alex Ferguson once said about disaffected players:
"What people should never forget is that I'm not here to please the players, the players are here to please me"

NI had a number of such instances when Sanchez was in charge and he was similarly unyielding. And although it might have cost us the services of "valuable" players in the short term, this was more than compensated by the long term effect on discipline, commitment and squad unity, something which Worthington is benefitting from even yet, I'd say.

I suspect that Trapp is of the same mind and your/his team will be the better for it.

[irishfan86]

If you'll forgive me for "intruding on private grief", I am always mindful of something Alex Ferguson once said about disaffected players:
"What people should never forget is that I'm not here to please the players, the players are here to please me"

NI had a number of such instances when Sanchez was in charge and he was similarly unyielding. And although it might have cost us the services of "valuable" players in the short term, this was more than compensated by the long term effect on discipline, commitment and squad unity, something which Worthington is benefitting from even yet, I'd say.

I suspect that Trapp is of the same mind and your/his team will be the better for it.

Trust me, I'm not one for kissing up to people or stroking egos, but in this situation Shay is struggling with an injury, but wants to play anyways, which I think is too risky.

I'd tell Shay, you're starting the qualifier, and I want to have a look at my alternatives by giving the other two lads a half each. End of story.

Sounds like the only ego being stroked here is Shay Given's, and possibly at the cost of his fitness.

As for the person above saying we'd be done without Given, take a look at the Columbia match, where Kiely was Man of the Match by a mile.

Kiely isn't expecting to start ahead of Shay Given, but I think he deserved to play a half against Nigeria.

[Lionel Ritchie]

mmm...amazing how people reactions are different for other players who supposidly walked out on the squad.
This is the 2nd time he has quit the Ireland squad because he wasnt getting picked. Personally Im not too bothered because although I think he is a good keeper he doesnt have many years of football left anyway

What other players "supposedly" walked out of the squad?
I can think of two who definitely spit their dummies and and most definitely walked out. Neither came to a reasonable conclusion that they were surplus to requirements either.

This isn't the same as an outfield player either where they may not be what the manager is after because they don't suit his system. This guy has a CV. Kieran Westwood has a lesser CV. If Trap wanted him to come back as a de facto goalkeeping coach he should've been straight with him.

As for Kielys previous retirement ...he was playing blinders for Charlton while Harper was keeping Shay out of the Newcastle team. He'd a right to be sniffing his armpits then. He has every right now not to accept being third choice keeper behind a guy who has one season in the championship under his belt.

[livehead1]

He quite possibly would have closer to the 60 cap mark if Given hadn't have been around. A very good goalkeeper and I for one am dissapointed that he has left the squad.

[Crosby87]

Honestly the third string goalie? who cares?

[John83]

As for Kielys previous retirement ...he was playing blinders for Charlton while Harper was keeping Shay out of the Newcastle team. He'd a right to be sniffing his armpits then. He has every right now not to accept being third choice keeper behind a guy who has one season in the championship under his belt.
He has a right to be disappointed - hell even exasperated - at not being picked. Announcing he's not playing any more is childish. I've come to expect no less from a pro footballer.

[highlight100]

It amazes me the Stephen Ireland was hung drawn and quatered by some, while Kiely is getting the softly softly treatment.
.

Difference is that Dean Kiely want's to play for his country but is not picked where as Stephen Ireland would be picked for his country but does not want to play.

[SkStu]

Difference is that Dean Kiely want's to play for his country but is not picked where as Stephen Ireland would be picked for his country but does not want to play.

it galls me that you have even had to point that difference out.

to Crosby - look at our other options for the final goalkeeping spot - hardly inspires confidence if Given and Westwood were absent. Anyway, i think Kiely was still always going to be second choice as long as he was around. His exit has simply quickened Westwoods promotion.

[Razors left peg]

What other players "supposedly" walked out of the squad?
I can think of two who definitely spit their dummies and and most definitely walked out. Neither came to a reasonable conclusion that they were surplus to requirements either.

This isn't the same as an outfield player either where they may not be what the manager is after because they don't suit his system. This guy has a CV. Kieran Westwood has a lesser CV. If Trap wanted him to come back as a de facto goalkeeping coach he should've been straight with him.

As for Kielys previous retirement ...he was playing blinders for Charlton while Harper was keeping Shay out of the Newcastle team. He'd a right to be sniffing his armpits then. He has every right now not to accept being third choice keeper behind a guy who has one season in the championship under his belt.

I have no intention of starting another Roy Keane or Steven Ireland debate here as it has been done to death on other threads. Im just making the point that those 2 in particular have been vilified and been called traitors to the country for deciding not to play for their country and yet the reaction is totally different for Kiely when he quits the national team not once but twice, it just strikes me a bit of double standards is all.
I actually dont see how he can have any complaints about not getting picked either,you say that he has a right to be upset that a guy with one championship season under his belt is ahead of him... then surely that would mean that Liam Miller would have a right to walk out if McCann,O Toole,Fahey etc were picked ahead of him.Neither Miller or Kiely have been playing enough first team football to justify a place in the squad let alone in the team and if there are players playing week in week out picked ahead of them they can have no complaints. Kiely has only been in the squad because we dont have enough other good keepers and if he was serious about trying to fight for a starting place he should have left West Brom in search of first team football

[drummerboy]

I reckon the guy is seething with his club situation. Carson has been hugesly disappointing for WBA and he has been left on bench until he eventually got in for last 3 games. He probably thought he was going to get at least a half a game for Ireland tonight and then told he won't feature and he reacted accordingly. Straw that broke the camel's back. I don't condone it but I can understand where he is coming from. Hope Doyle gets a move this seaso as I think he will be an outstanding keeper.

[ifk101]

I reckon the guy is seething with his club situation. Carson has been hugesly disappointing for WBA and he has been left on bench until he eventually got in for last 3 games. He probably thought he was going to get at least a half a game for Ireland tonight and then told he won't feature and he reacted accordingly. Straw that broke the camel's back. I don't condone it but I can understand where he is coming from. Hope Doyle gets a move this seaso as I think he will be an outstanding keeper.

Well considering that Given was an injury doubt all week and that this is "just" a friendly game, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that somebody suggested to Kiely that he would be getting his game.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I have no intention of starting another Roy Keane or Steven Ireland debate here as it has been done to death on other threads. Im just making the point that those 2 in particular have been vilified and been called traitors to the country for deciding not to play for their country and yet the reaction is totally different for Kiely when he quits the national team not once but twice, it just strikes me a bit of double standards is all. There's no comparison and therefore no double standard so I won't restart one either.


I actually dont see how he can have any complaints about not getting picked either,you say that he has a right to be upset that a guy with one championship season under his belt is ahead of him... then surely that would mean that Liam Miller would have a right to walk out if McCann,O Toole,Fahey etc were picked ahead of him. As I said in previous post -it's not a straight comparison with the outfield players. The guy was asked to come out of retirement was he not. Now he gets a strong hint that he was asked to do so to carry bollards, cut oranges and help the other two with their stretches. As someone else said, his leaving isn't to be condoned -but I can easily empathise.


Kiely has only been in the squad because we dont have enough other good keepers and if he was serious about trying to fight for a starting place he should have left West Brom in search of first team football Debateable ...but fair comment. He is nonetheless the senior keeper in there with a wealth of experience while Westwood (nothing at all against Westwood btw) has probably 12-14 years of football left in him and a lot to learn.


Well considering that Given was an injury doubt all week and that this is "just" a friendly game, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that somebody suggested to Kiely that he would be getting his game. My thoughts exactly. Incidently I don't think it's especially healthy for Ireland or Given that the guy knows he'd have to break a limb to be dropped.

[geysir]

Incidently I don't think it's especially healthy for Ireland or Given that the guy knows he'd have to break a limb to be dropped.
You mean Kiely didn't think it was healthy with some thoughts racing around his head picturing Shay breaking a leg and thought he'd better split the scene before he put a jinx on Given:)

Can't really complain about Given's insatiable desire for all the caps.
I think Kiely recognises 100% that he was second fiddle to Given, but there is an amount of natural sympathy for his cause that there is a time and place for a deputy to take his place.

[Dyl10]

It amazes me the Stephen Ireland was hung drawn and quatered by some, while Kiely is getting the softly softly treatment. I mean lets face it, Mr Ireland had a much better reason for wanting to go home. Kiely is having a huff at not getting picked ahead of one of the worlds top 3 goalies.


Stephen Ireland left because he doesn't want to play for Ireland, Dean Kiely left because does and is clearly ****ed off about sitting on the bench and not getting a run, when by right, he should. They are hardly similar situations.

Kiely is not having a huff about not being picked ahead of Given, he's having a huff about not being picked ahead of some GK half of us have never heard of.

[fergalr]

Great shame its come to this and I hope Trapp doesn't come to regret this especially if Shay misses any of our WC games.

I recall another thread about players who should have or deserved to win more caps. Dean is surely one of the strongest of these in recent memory.

10 caps is a poor return for a player of his quality.

Bear in mind that in the meantime we've given 9 caps to Colgan, 7 to Kenny, 6 to Henderson, one each to Murphy and Doyle, quite a few to Kelly and a zillion to Shay. And, I'm sure I'm forgetting someone.

[carloz]

Its a pet hate of mine to see people giving out that given wants the appeareance record for ireland. So bloody what, we should be delighted that one of our players want to. We have a certain talented **** in England that won't get off his arse to play for us so its refreshing to have people with Givens attitude.
I agree with almost everything Roy keane said in his career but was ****ed off when he gave out about given wanting to play in every game. yes, personally i wouldn't play him tonigh, as it is an unnessary risk, but if given feels u to it then so be.
BTW Coventry fans have been singing the praises of westwood all season

[danonion]

Kiely has a history of being treated badly by managements. An unattached Alan Kelly was preferred to him for a friendly iirc so he could go in the shop window.

This is bad management Westwood is an unknown quantity, Kiely is a good 2nd choice.

[Razors left peg]

Kiely has a history of being treated badly by managements. An unattached Alan Kelly was preferred to him for a friendly iirc so he could go in the shop window.

This is bad management Westwood is an unknown quantity, Kiely is a good 2nd choice.
well the only way of seeing if he is up to it is to see him play so its a good choice playing him in my opinion

[danonion]

well the only way of seeing if he is up to it is to see him play so its a good choice playing him in my opinion

The match didn't realistically show us anything about Westwood and we lost Kiely over it. Seems a little silly to me.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I thought Westwood did fine. Himself and Kiely should've had a half each. Given, who nearly got his achilles hacked off in an over-elaborated clearance, shouldn't have played.

[boovidge]

Westwood is the most likely candidate to replace Given as our long term number one. He's playing regularly and is being linked with a Premiership move. He should be ahead of Kiely in the pecking order imo.

[irishfan86]

Westwood is the most likely candidate to replace Given as our long term number one. He's playing regularly and is being linked with a Premiership move. He should be ahead of Kiely in the pecking order imo.

While I definitely understand this opinion, there is something to be said for experience.

If Given's hip injury acts up, I think given the importance of this coming game, in addition to the probable hostility of the crowd in an away fixture, I'd lean towards picking Kiely.

Even though I'm really excited about Westwood's future with us, I think it would be a big ask for him to come in for his second cap in that kind of environment, under that kind of pressure.

[seanfhear]

Dean if you read this I believe most Irish supporters want you to come back.

Dean Kiely is a vey good goalkeeper and is an asset to the Irish squad.

[Stuttgart88]

Indo this morning is saying Westwood is out for Sofia. Not because he's injured but because he's getting married!

Now, I doubt this was a spur of the moment thing - unless it's to one of the Nigerian WAGs at the game on Friday - so this makes Kiely's ommission more bizarre.

Still, Westwood is ours now. I think that's a good thing as England may have nipped in ahead of us.

[zenokelly]

Indo this morning is saying Westwood is out for Sofia. Not because he's injured but because he's getting married!

Now, I doubt this was a spur of the moment thing - unless it's to one of the Nigerian WAGs at the game on Friday - so this makes Kiely's ommission more bizarre.

Trap said he had known about this for the last month, no wonder Kiely was aggrieved.

[SwanVsDalton]

I think he's blundered by not starting Kiely. Trap surely didn't expect Dean to throw a wobbly but, since he knew for a month Westwood would be unavailable against Bulgaria, it made sense to placate your 2nd choice keeper. Now it's Doyle, Murphy, Henderson or Kenny to get called up as replacement and many fingers crossed that Shay doesn't get injured.

[John83]

I think he's blundered by not starting Kiely. Trap surely didn't expect Dean to throw a wobbly but, since he knew for a month Westwood would be unavailable against Bulgaria, it made sense to placate your 2nd choice keeper. Now it's Doyle, Murphy, Henderson or Kenny to get called up as replacement and many fingers crossed that Shay doesn't get injured.
Is Kiely playing football next season? At 38, he's bound to be thinking about retirement.

That this is coming to a head during a qualifier is unfortunate, but it was going to happen sooner or later with Kiely as old as he is and Given growing more prone to injury.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Kiely is not having a huff about not being picked ahead of Given, he's having a huff about not being picked ahead of some GK half of us have never heard of.


This is bad management Westwood is an unknown quantity, Kiely is a good 2nd choice.
International friendlies are about trying out players that wouldn't usually feature. Trap knows what Kiely is capable of and he wanted to see how Westwood would do. Whatever about a half fit Given been picked ahead of him, picking Westwood ahead of Kiely was 100% the correct decision.

[irishfan86]

International friendlies are about trying out players that wouldn't usually feature. Trap knows what Kiely is capable of and he wanted to see how Westwood would do. Whatever about a half fit Given been picked ahead of him, picking Westwood ahead of Kiely was 100% the correct decision.

No way can you say it was the 100% correct decision given that Westwood isn't even available for Sofia!

This makes Trap's decision all the more mind boggling.

[Stuttgart88]

Given the lack of any quality in depth in England's goalkeeping options this may have been a deliberate move to nail Westwood to Ireland. He is among the highest rated young keepers out there.

[ifk101]

Given the lack of any quality in depth in England's goalkeeping options this may have been a deliberate move to nail Westwood to Ireland . He is among the highest rated young keepers out there.

There shouldn't be a need to do this.

Anyways now that it has emerged that Westwood is unavailable for the Bulgaria, Dean Kiely has a right to feel aggrieved.

[Stuttgart88]

Not saying it should be like that, just that it may have been Trap's thinking.

I'd be pretty relaxed if Westwood was available for Sofia. I like Kiely a lot but if you want to take an unemotional view of things, you can say out with the old in with the new. With only Shay available and supposedly getting over a knock there's scope for a bit of nervousness.

UK Times this morning suggests FAI is "trying to track down alternatives" which sounds a bit like my old UCD Superleague team on Saturday mornings.

Not good.

Surely Westwood would have looked at the World Cup Fixture list when determining his wedding date. I know I did!

[paul_oshea]

He probably didn't know ;)

[geysir]

Sounds utterly feckless from Westwood but we won't crucify him for his wedding planning abilities.

I feel a bit easier about him after having seen him. All based on the confident way he gathered up that one ball.

[osarusan]

Playing Westwood for even a few seconds would ensure he can only play for Ireland, right (I am actually not sure about this)? Playing him needn't have been at the expense of Kiely.

Considering it was known that Westwood would be unavailable next week, it was regrettable that the incident developed where Kiely left the squad. Whose fault it is I am not sure though. Did Kiely march out without telling anybody, or did Trap refuse to bend even a little bit when Kiely approached him?

I agree that our long-term future is important, but our next game is bloody crucial, and I would have liked Kiely on the bench for it.

[ifk101]

I'm sure Westwood is a competent back-up goalie but in the context of the forthcoming match against Bulgaria, I think his run-out could have waited until August. Kiely hasn't played a lot this season and given that Trap & Co. knew Kiely would be needed for the game in Bulgaria if anything happened to Shay, he should have been given his game. I have a lot of sympathy for Kiely, he shouldn't have walked out, but I can understand why he did.