CL Final

[Umberside]

I don't like the stadium in the way that the fans are so far away from the pitch. Doesn't look very good on camera.

[old git]

[QUOTE=old git;1168254]iniesta man of the match tonight... rte panel raving about messi but for me iniesta was the star man for barcelona ... utd midfield non existant , ronaldo / rooney vanished as game went on and in the end utd had only 1 shot on target in first 10 mins
barcelona a joy to watch but i also think utd made it a bit easier for them by standing off and letting them play football and never really got at barcelona so called suspect defence ... utd need a iniesta / xavi type midfielder as soon as possible :ball watched game on utv and the commetators were still hopeful of utd getting a result at 2-0 down with five mins to go. :confused:QUOTE]

[old git]

just watched medal presentation anybody else think michel platini was absolutly delighted to be presenting winners medals to barcelona players looked like he wanted to mount messi :D:D boy he must really hate the english leagues / teams :ball:

[Newryrep]

What are the odds of Barca winning 5-0?
I can see it happening.
It's about time somebody steam-rollled Man U in Europe.

Realistically though, I don't think Man U can defend as well as Chelsea did (for most of the 2 semi-legs) and thus I believe Barca are more likely to score. However, Man U are more of a threat themselves on the counter than Chelsea, so they can bang a few in themselves against what is a shaky Barca defence.

Fascinating isn't it. But I have to say, Barca aren't THAT bad at the back. It amuses me fellas like Dunphy slating the likes of Puyol saying he can't play at this level. Well I would refer Mr.Dunphy to Puyol's trophy cabinet thanks very much (for club and country).

I think Barca will score early and ultimately win by 2 clear golas.

And for the record, John O'Shea is better than you think. He gets harsh criticism in this country. Ask him to show you his trophy cabinet!


You dont know next week lottery ticket numbers do you ?

[sligoman]

Not a great game imo, mainly because there was only one team on the pitch really. Delighted for Barcelona, well deserved.

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone think Ferguson lost out big time to a managerial rookie?

Without most of a first choice back 4 Barca trusted their technique and deservedly won quite easily.

If Ferguson had trusted United's key strengths - constantly asking questions of the opposition defence, constantly getting the ball in dangerous areas and feverishly trying to regain possession when they lose it - I think they'd have been more competitive. Instead I think he was cagey - exchange jabs with Barcelona and see what develops. Wrong call.

I was very impressed by how Barcelona played without the ball. Very disciplined structurally - classic 2 banks of 4 type stuff. Credit to Guardiala for instilling that discipline in what is a very attack minded team.

I like Carrick and the way he plays but he's not a patch on Xabi and Iniesta is a sheer joy to watch. Carrick is very good but not anywhere near the top table.

Puyol's antic's were only blot on a good Barcelona win for me.

[Umberside]

just watched medal presentation anybody else think michel platini was absolutly delighted to be presenting winners medals to barcelona players looked like he wanted to mount messi :D:D boy he must really hate the english leagues / teams :ball:

I noticed that too, hugging nearly all of them except for Sylvinho, Gudjohnsen and Henry, who have played for Premier League clubs and obviously a few other players as well.

[old git]

Anyone think Ferguson lost out big time to a managerial rookie?

Without most of a first choice back 4 Barca trusted their technique and deservedly won quite easily.

If Ferguson had trusted United's key strengths - constantly asking questions of the opposition defence, constantly getting the ball in dangerous areas and feverishly trying to regain possession when they lose it - I think they'd have been more competitive. Instead I think he was cagey - exchange jabs with Barcelona and see what develops. Wrong call.

I was very impressed by how Barcelona played without the ball. Very disciplined structurally - classic 2 banks of 4 type stuff. Credit to Guardialo for instilling that discipline in what is a very attack minded team.

I like Carrick and the way he plays but he's not a patch on Xabi and Iniesta is a sheer joy to watch. Carrick is very good but not anywhere near the top table.

Puyol's antic's were only blot on a good Barcelona win for me.

xabi / iniesta controlled game hardly let utd get a chance to get a back four ... when barcelona had the ball they usually found another player and utd gave it away to easy when they finaly had ball to many attempts at long diagonal passes out to wings ... like rooney as a player but thought it was one of his worst games in a utd shirt .... as for berbatov don't even think he broke into a sweat when he came on :mad: but credit to barcelona they were the better team all over the pitch...:ball:

[eirebhoy]

If Ferguson had trusted United's key strengths - constantly asking questions of the opposition defence, constantly getting the ball in dangerous areas and feverishly trying to regain possession when they lose it - I think they'd have been more competitive. Instead I think he was cagey - exchange jabs with Barcelona and see what develops. Wrong call.
The problem is though with Fletcher and Hargreaves unavailable they just don't have the players to do that. Try to match Barca and you'll certainly be beaten. Giggs and Carrick in particular are not going to hassle Barca in midfield.

Iniesta said this week that training at Barca as a kid they were constantly told to:
"Receive, pass, offer, receive, pass, offer"

Can you imagine a player of Iniesta's ability playing in England? He'd have been stuck on the wing and told to beat players at every opportunity.

[NeilMcD]

Yeah Barca deserved to win and it was a pity the game was so one sided and that the Irishman ended up with a losers medal howerver it was a joy to watch Xavi Iniesta and Messi. Midfied won the day. Dunphy is a muppet saying Man Utd are a shambles. 3 league titles in a row and 2 Champions Leagues in a row and they are in shambles.

[jebus]

Ferguson got it wrong on the night alright but his players, bar Ronaldo, didn't seem up for it at all. VDS could have done better for the Etoo goal but I'd agree with Dunphy that Vidic should take the lions share of the blame there. O'Shea did alright, no better. Vidic and Ferdinand were useless and Evra didn't get forward enough (probably a tactic to keep him back but it wasn't working and should have been changed). Carrick and Anderson aren't good enough for this stage, they just aren't. Giggs is so far past it as a starting player it's laughable Fergie even considered him, let alone went with it. Park is a poor man's Dirk Kuyt, Rooney was misused again, but he still deserves his fair share of criticism for not showing up, where as Ronaldo seemed up for it but got frustrated again and fell out of the game. Scholes is probably the nastiest footballer I've ever seen, that challenge on Basquets was shocking, I heard ITV laughed it off as just another Scholes tackle again :rolleyes: Berbatov should be sold in the summer and Tevez couldn't do much when he came on as the 10 players around him already looked defeated.

Fair play to Barca though, thought United a thing or two about football tonight, in particular Iniesta, Messi, Xavi and Puyol, with an extra nod to Basquets and Pique for holding their nerve on such a large occasion.

[oscar]

Barca knocked the ball around brilliantly at times,Messi is a joy to watch,Iniesta and Xavi ran midfield,Man Utd never showed up,i'd be disappointed if i were a Utd fan,Messi's first goal against a Premiership team also

[NeilMcD]

Ha ha Jebus what a loads of absolute rubbish youa re talking there. Explaing 3 league titles and 2 Champions league finals. Are you sure you have not just finished at RTE and have not logged on to foot.ie.

[jebus]

Ha ha Jebus what a loads of absolute rubbish youa re talking there. Explaing 3 league titles and 2 Champions league finals. Are you sure you have not just finished at RTE and have not logged on to foot.ie.

Care to wipe those bitter tears out of your eyes and highlight the parts you disagree with?

[NeilMcD]

Ha ha, I could not give a **** as I do not support Utd. I Support Ireland and Bohs. Was hoping an Irish man would get another champions league medal but really enjoyed Barcas midfield. So no tears bitter or joyful.

Generally your point was over the top. Man Utd were poor tonight you have reached conclusive opions based on very thin evidence. Utd have won 3 league titles on the trot and 2 Champions league finals on the trot. So they are doing lots of things right. Their midfield was not great tonight and they probably could do with the introduction of a world class midfielder to replace giggs and scholes and Hargreaves who looks like he is going to retire.

Berbatov contributed 10 assists and 9 goals this season. Not bad for his first season at Man Utd. His style puts people off but his a classy player. Anderson is so young and inexperienced that to right him off is a joke. In conclusion your whole post is like some Dunphy rant that attempts to right Man Utd off when they beat Barca over two legs last season and this season lost to them. Some games teams win some they lose but over a decent period of time you can judge them and Man Utd seem to be doing pretty well with Ferguson in charge and with the players they have.

[Kildare Lad]

What impressed me about Barcelona so much tonight was the way their players moved off the ball, always seemed to be in a position to recieve the ball. It almost made it look like they had more players than United how well they used the space and got away from their markers. A joy to watch nonetheless and football really came out victorious on the night.

Agree with stutts that Puyol acting the b**lox was the only downer for the Spaniards tonight.

[cheifo]

Hiddink decided not to even bother playing football against Barca and his tactics were very nearly vindicated.

UTD don't have players in Midfield with the class of Iniesta and Xavi(and Messi dropping deep sometimes) and they gave UTD a lesson in technique and awareness.

Ferguson needed a tactical plan to counter act Barca superior technical ability and just didn't seem to have one.

[jebus]

Ha ha, I could not give a **** as I do not support Utd. I Support Ireland and Bohs. Was hoping an Irish man would get another champions league medal but really enjoyed Barcas midfield. So no tears bitter or joyful.

Generally your point was over the top. Man Utd were poor tonight you have reached conclusive opions based on very thin evidence. Utd have won 3 league titles on the trot and 2 Champions league finals on the trot. So they are doing lots of things right. Their midfield was not great tonight and they probably could do with the introduction of a world class midfielder to replace giggs and scholes and Hargreaves who looks like he is going to retire.

Bar Anderson, Giggs and Carrick I didn't criticise any player outside of tonights game unduly. I called Park a poor man's Kuyt and he is, he works hard, tracks back well, but Kuyt scores more and even better he scores on big occasions. Not a huge criticism of Park because I actually rate both himself and Kuyt. All the other comments bar the three I've highlighted were on tonights performance, not this season or the last few seasons.

And I'll stand by saying Carrick and Anderson aren't good enough for that level, Xavi and Iniesta vs Carrick and Anderson should tell you that United need to buy in the summer. Giggs should retire, he's a grand cameo performer against smaller opponants but he's only kept around because he has been a great servant of the club, not on merit. That Players Player of the Year award was a joke before anyone brings it up too.

Oh wait I called Scholes a hacker, can anyone dispute this? So whats your point?

[NeilMcD]

It must be rememberd too that football was the winner last year too at the Champions League final even if it took penalties to decide it. Man Utd were immense in the first half against Chelsea last year. Barca were great tonight and it was a match between two great clubs. One team showed up and played great and the other did not and was outclassed. But to say that football was the winner innsinuates that somewho Man Utd were anti football in the way that Chelsea were in the Camp Nou or that Liverpool were a few years ago in Europe.

[NeilMcD]

Bar Anderson, Giggs and Carrick I didn't criticise any player outside of tonights game unduly. I called Park a poor man's Kuyt and he is, he works hard, tracks back well, but Kuyt scores more and even better he scores on big occasions. Not a huge criticism of Park because I actually rate both himself and Kuyt. All the other comments bar the three I've highlighted were on tonights performance, not this season or the last few seasons.

And I'll stand by saying Carrick and Anderson aren't good enough for that level, Xavi and Iniesta vs Carrick and Anderson should tell you that United need to buy in the summer. Giggs should retire, he's a grand cameo performer against smaller opponants but he's only kept around because he has been a great servant of the club, not on merit. That Players Player of the Year award was a joke before anyone brings it up too.

Oh wait I called Scholes a hacker, can anyone dispute this? So whats your point?

No midfield players are up to the standard of Iniesta or Xavi. so to say that Carrick and Anderson are not is not much of a point. Xavi and Iniesta are simply the best central midfielders playing the game at the moment by a country mile. There are not many central midfielders out there.

[jebus]

No midfield players are up to the standard of Iniesta or Xavi. so to say that Carrick and Anderson are not is not much of a point. Xavi and Iniesta are simply the best central midfielders playing the game at the moment by a country mile. There are not many central midfielders out there.

Alright so, Carrick and Anderson aren't as good as Xabi Alonso and Mascherano, or Essien and Lampard or Diarra and Gago or Pirlo and Gattuso or Senna and Fernandez or Cesc and whatever rubbish player Wenger plays alongside him

They're not good enough for the top level, Anderson especially, but Carrick is very average as well

[NeilMcD]

Well Man Utd seem to do pretty well if their central midfielders are so rubbish or maybe they are not rubbish and you are talking through yoru arse.

[jebus]

Well Man Utd seem to do pretty well if their central midfielders are so rubbish or maybe they are not rubbish and you are talking through yoru arse.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/49/dawson_crying.gif

[NeilMcD]

Ahh Jebus dont take it so bad you will be ok.

[jebus]

I'm just worried about what will happen when you have to take your Ryan Giggs posters down :(

[NeilMcD]

Never had any. Only posters I had when I was 8 and 9 and 10 were Ireland ones. Now I do not have posters. As I said already only reason I was hoping that Man Utd won was because John O Shea was playing for Man Utd, if he was playhing for Barca I would have gone for them.

[Dodge]

Alright so, Carrick and Anderson aren't as good as Xabi Alonso and Mascherano, or Essien and Lampard or Diarra and Gago or Pirlo and Gattuso or Senna and Fernandez or Cesc and whatever rubbish player Wenger plays alongside him

They're not good enough for the top level, Anderson especially, but Carrick is very average as well

Carrick's better than Busquets. Well above him. As I said earlier in the thread, some players are in there to play a specific role. I happen to think Anderson is a smashing player. He just had a poor game.

Oh and you dind't always know about Iniesta (http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=73098&highlight=Iniesta) :D

[jebus]

Basquets isn't first choice though, Yaya Toure normally plays in there and he's miles better than either Anderson or Carrick as well

And that link was 2007, and two points, not many disagreed with my querying of why Iniesta was in there on form and two quit living in the past Dodge :p

[NeilMcD]

Oh by the way is the Arsenal central midfield the same one that got destroyed by Anderson and by Carrick over two legs.

[Dodge]

Basquets isn't first choice though, Yaya Toure normally plays in there and he's miles better than either Anderson or Carrick as well

Who mightn't be first choise if Hargreaves and Fletcher are available. In last night's game, Carrick was nowhere near Utd's weak link and I think you're being OTT in singling him out. He got no support and had to try and eadl with Xavi, Iniesta and Messi as well as try and start the attacks. If he's given enough support, he'd be OK.

[jebus]

Oh by the way is the Arsenal central midfield the same one that got destroyed by Anderson and by Carrick over two legs.

Wow you pick out the partnership where I state 'Cesc and whatever rubbish player Wenger puts alongside him' and call me on that.

I'm starting to believe you're not cut up about Utd losing tonight alright :rolleyes: :D

[Dodge]

And that link was 2007, and two points, not many disagreed with my querying of why Iniesta was in there on for
Only 18 months ago, and I thiink you'll find I said Iniesta was one of the top 5 midfielders in europe...

[superfrank]

Agree with jebus on Scholes. He has to be one of the worst foulers in the game and he seems to get away with an awful lot of reckless tackles.

Barca were outstanding tonight, thoroughly deserving winners. I guess that settles it for who's the best team in the world at the moment.

Two brilliant finishes in the game. I think people are being very hard on Vidic as dozens of defenders fall for that move week in, week out.

Man U were fairly average. They never seemed to have anything in an attacking sense tonight. After the first goal, the only chance I remember is Giggs kicking the ball against his own man. I was surprised by how far behind Barca Man U were/are. After all the talk about Barca's defence, they stood up to what Man U had tonight and it never seemed like they'd score.

[jebus]

Who mightn't be first choise if Hargreaves and Fletcher are available. In last night's game, Carrick was nowhere near Utd's weak link and I think you're being OTT in singling him out. He got no support and had to try and eadl with Xavi, Iniesta and Messi as well as try and start the attacks. If he's given enough support, he'd be OK.

Hargreaves isn't going to be available and even then Carrick would push him as a starter in fergie's eyes I think. Fletch was a big loss for them alright, and actually wait, I'd have Basquets over Anderson from what I've seen of him to go back to your original point

[jebus]

Only 18 months ago, and I thiink you'll find I said Iniesta was one of the top 5 midfielders in europe...

Shall we change the thread title 'We're Not Worthy'? :p

[Dodge]

Yes please. Fairly apt given the performance of Iniesta and Xavi, no?

[NeilMcD]

Wow you pick out the partnership where I state 'Cesc and whatever rubbish player Wenger puts alongside him' and call me on that.

I'm starting to believe you're not cut up about Utd losing tonight alright :rolleyes: :D

YOu do not get it. I am disagreeing with your OTT comments about Man Utd and some of their players. Barca were a joy to watch and I could watch Iniesta and Xavi and Messi all day. A joy to watch but you believe what you want to believe.Just like I would not dismiss Barca and Messi when Utd beat them last year I would not do the same with Man Utd and the Man Utd players you mention this year.

[jebus]

Agreed Dodge. :)


YOu do not get it. I am disagreeing with your OTT comments about Man Utd and some of their players. Barca were a joy to watch and I could watch Iniesta and Xavi and Messi all day. A joy to watch but you believe what you want to believe.

I will. And you responded to my criticisms of the majority of United's players on tonight's performance by going on about the last few seasons for some odd reason.

That's what you don't get

[NeilMcD]

eh Carrick Giggs, Anderson and Berbatov you made damning judgements on and not just commented on tonights game. Your comments on Rooney, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra were about tonights game the others were not.

[jebus]

eh Carrick Giggs, Anderson and Berbatov you made damning judgements on and not just commented on tonights game. Your comments on Rooney, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra were about tonights game the others were not.

4 players, two of them squad players and one of them who has just arrived this season and you respond by going on about their success in 2007 and 2008?

Not to mention that Berbatov has hardly been a key member in their title winning squad, in fact most United fans I know would say he has been more of a hinderence than anything as he slows United's free flowing game down. Giggs is a 20 minute sub and thats it, the fact that he's come on as a sub in most of his appearances this season kinda makes that a fact and Carrick and Anderson, well I stand by my comments on them.

You're convincing me more and more that you're not cut up about the loss tonight though :rolleyes::D

Oh and I didn't realise that United only had 8 players on the park by your count. Schoolboy error by United! Fergie Out!

[NeilMcD]

Berbatov 10 assists and 9 goals for Man Utd this season. Take them out and they would not have won the league. Anyway I am deligthed that Barca won the league over many other teams but I will admit that any Irish player who is playing in a champions League final I will cheer for them. Shoot me for that. If you are an ABU that is not my problem. I think the point about tonight is that Barca were great and Man Utd were not at the races but to reach any conclusive decisions or opinions on any of the players based on tonights performance, and thats including Anderson Carrick and Giggs, is stupid, esp coming from a guy who did not rate Iniesta 2 years ago when he was a great player then.

[Dodge]

Berbatov 10 assists and 9 goals for Man Utd this season. Take them out and they would not have won the league.

Of course, because they'd have been playing with 10 men. Stick nearly anyone into his position and they'd have done just as well.

How many of those 10 goals were winners?

[NeilMcD]

Of course, because they'd have been playing with 10 men. Stick nearly anyone into his position and they'd have done just as well.

How many of those 10 goals were winners?

I do not have the stats at hand but I think most of his goals and assists came in the run where they were winning games 1-0 and keeping lots of clean sheets. I am sure somebody could find this out but Berbatov had a huge impact on a large amount of points this season for Man Utd. He is a lazy ****e and for the last 2 months he has not been on form since his injury but for people to dismiss him and say he should be sold is a joke, esp when they are the same person who does not rate Iniesta in the top 55 players in 2007. I seem to remember Pires bein rubbish when he first joined Arsenal

[Dodge]

Arsenal dind't spend a fortune on pires and it was his frst season in England.

Berbatov shouldn't really have any excuses

[Rovers fan]

Iniesta is in the top 3 players in the world imo. Probably the second best player in the world this year, behind messi. He has everything. People were saying that fabregas should have been starting for spain but he hasn't a patch on xavi or iniesta. They absolutely ran the show today, made bits of anderson and Carrick. United were chasing shadows and couldn't get their front men on the ball. Everyone was harping on about Barca's defense (I myself was worried they would cost barca) but in the end they hardly even needed a defense.

Delighted to see barca win tbh.

[jebus]

I do not have the stats at hand but I think most of his goals and assists came in the run where they were winning games 1-0 and keeping lots of clean sheets. I am sure somebody could find this out but Berbatov had a huge impact on a large amount of points this season for Man Utd. He is a lazy ****e and for the last 2 months he has not been on form since his injury but for people to dismiss him and say he should be sold is a joke, esp when they are the same person who does not rate Iniesta in the top 55 players in 2007. I seem to remember Pires bein rubbish when he first joined Arsenal

Captain Hindsight rears his head I see.

Dodge was the only one that disagreed with me in that thread, so there must have been some validity in me saying that Iniesta wasn't one of the best midfield players in the 2006/07 season, can't quite remember what he did or did not do that year tbf and I doubt you do either

[tetsujin1979]

to wish congratulations to Barcelona would do them a massive disservice, they are simpley one of the best teams I have ever watched play the beautiful game. United spent the first 15-20 minutes in possession, Barcelona spent the rest of the game teaching them a lesson in possession football. Simple, short, incisive passes, building towards creating a chance on goal, with the best player in the world left to do what he does better than anyone else.
Just amazing. Anyone who's spent the time since the game arguing about whether or not Fletcher would have made a difference, or if Berbatov should have started is out of order.
No team could have stopped Guardiola's men tonight, they are that good.

[37Beour]

I think tonights performance showed that United are still missing that gritty midfielder to get in the face of opposition. Fletcher has it to a certain degree but still is quite soft and def think United would have had more control in the middle if he wasn't banned. Carrick, Scholes and Anderson can't even spell tackle let alone make one. For the first goal Carrick ran alongside a Barca player for maybe 10-15 yards and didn't even stick a foot in....who d f**k does that!!!!:mad: But that wasn't the only instance, for the whole game United were backing off and only attempted making a tackle around the 18yard box which is absolutely nuts considering the attacking ability of Barca. And Messi one of the smallest men on the field managed to jump between 3 defenders all ranging in 6ft height for second goal!!:eek:

Overall best team won. Utd let it go way too easily. No spirit, no determination, no heart everything Barca had. The likes of Ronaldo, Rooney and Park could not breach the makeshift defence of Barca either which you would expect but it wasn't happening! O' Shea was the best United player on the pitch tonight, didn't give anyone much a sniff!

[Rovers fan]

to wish congratulations to Barcelona would do them a massive disservice, they are simpley one of the best teams I have ever watched play the beautiful game. United spent the first 15-20 minutes in possession, Barcelona spent the rest of the game teaching them a lesson in possession football. Simple, short, incisive passes, building towards creating a chance on goal, with the best player in the world left to do what he does better than anyone else.
Just amazing. Anyone who's spent the time since the game arguing about whether or not Fletcher would have made a difference, or if Berbatov should have started is out of order.
No team could have stopped Guardiola's men tonight, they are that good.


While I agree they are great team, the bit in bold is untrue imo. Chelsea more than matched barca in the semis and were very unlucky to go out.

[eirebhoy]

What impressed me about Barcelona so much tonight was the way their players moved off the ball, always seemed to be in a position to recieve the ball. It almost made it look like they had more players than United how well they used the space and got away from their markers. A joy to watch nonetheless and football really came out victorious on the night.

Yeh British and Irish people can talk about lack of technique all they want but passing ability is mainly down to intelligence. Technique is a born talent. Gerrard, Carrick, Beckham and others are some of the most technical in the world. They can all pass a 60 yarder very accurately. But they're not on Xavi and Iniesta's level with passing because of the coaching they received.