Miller for United? [Archive] - Page 2

tiktok

09/01/2004, 12:29 PM

Ok, first paragraph about Miller, you can ignore the rest. Any Irish fan who would boo an Irish player because he moved from one club to another to further his career doesn't deserve a bloody ticket to any Irish game, in my humble opinion.

and my last word on this....

Originally posted by gspain
Keane did not have to go to the U.S. Pre-season training is needed but these were promotional games and a player with a serious hip injury would have been better off staying at home. The players were dragged right across the U.S. - hardly ideal preparation but then needs must and money talks.

Bullsh!t. Of course he had to go, United were in the states for four weeks and started the season soon after coming back, they were in the throws of pre-season training. They were not 'dragged' across the states, they were based in Portland, oregon for the bulk of their time, where they trained twice daily at the Nike campus (as part of preseason). The fact that Nike sponsored the tour is irrelevant, a tour of that size needed a sponsor. they played four very competitive friendlies against high quality opposition. That tour was of as much benefit to the players as it was to the PLC.

are you really telling me gspain that you think Roy Keane would be better off playing with the reserves against rochdale than going through the preseason with the rest of his team.

gspain

09/01/2004, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by �anna
to go to a club managed by........................ a Sir! :D

Yes but Sir Taggart never dedicated his award to the whole club including the fans. :D

Anyway Martin hasn't got his knighthood yet but given his record no doubt the Celtic fans won't have too long to wait to celebrate that too. Although it may be the Liverpool fans that will be cheering.

I don't think Celtic will get any compensation as Miller will be 23 in February. Furthermore as he is on �1,000 a week isn't compensation done based on a player's salary.

gspain

09/01/2004, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by tiktok
Ok, first paragraph about Miller, you can ignore the rest. Any Irish fan who would boo an Irish player because he moved from one club to another to further his career doesn't deserve a bloody ticket to any Irish game, in my humble opinion.

and my last word on this....

Bullsh!t. Of course he had to go, United were in the states for four weeks and started the season soon after coming back, they were in the throws of pre-season training. They were not 'dragged' across the states, they were based in Portland, oregon for the bulk of their time, where they trained twice daily at the Nike campus (as part of preseason). The fact that Nike sponsored the tour is irrelevant, a tour of that size needed a sponsor. they played four very competitive friendlies against high quality opposition. That tour was of as much benefit to the players as it was to the PLC.

are you really telling me gspain that you think Roy Keane would be better off playing with the reserves against rochdale than going through the preseason with the rest of his team.

16 day tour according to manutdtour.com (official site, mutv journalist, Ryan Giggs duvet et al) - 4 games in Seattle, LA, NJ & Philly - that's 3 of the 4 corners of continental U.S.A. and it is a big country.

It was after pre-season training. He has also played 23 competitive games already this season. I'm sure you'll also agree that he has been superb.

tiktok

09/01/2004, 1:10 PM

Originally posted by gspain
16 day tour according to manutdtour.com (official site, mutv journalist, Ryan Giggs duvet et al) - 4 games in Seattle, LA, NJ & Philly - that's 3 of the 4 corners of continental U.S.A. and it is a big country.

It was after pre-season training. He has also played 23 competitive games already this season. I'm sure you'll also agree that he has been superb.

I'll take your word for it that i got the length of the tour wrong, the only thing that comes after PRE-Season training, is he season, they still were on pre-season training on that tour regardless of spin. Of course the club and team captain is going to go and train and play on a pre-season tour.

He has been brilliant this season, and if he has played 23 competitive games (i won't doubt you) i can remember five where he started on the bench and United have played in excess of thirty games so far, so obviously he's not playing every game and the club doctors are resting him now and again.

but this thread isn't about keane, i'm sure we're all sick of it so i'm just going to have to try harder not to respond.

gspain

09/01/2004, 1:17 PM

Originally posted by tiktok
I'll take your word for it that i got the length of the tour wrong, the only thing that comes after PRE-Season training, is he season, they still were on pre-season training on that tour regardless of spin. Of course the club and team captain is going to go and train and play on a pre-season tour.

He has been brilliant this season, and if he has played 23 competitive games (i won't doubt you) i can remember five where he started on the bench and United have played in excess of thirty games so far, so obviously he's not playing every game and the club doctors are resting him now and again.

but this thread isn't about keane, i'm sure we're all sick of it so i'm just going to have to try harder not to respond.

OK Dropped.

Can we just agree that hopefully Roy Keane will help Liam Miller to fulfil his promise and become even half as good. Let's hope Liam has a long and successful International career

PaulB

09/01/2004, 1:21 PM

tiktok

09/01/2004, 1:46 PM

Originally posted by gspain
OK Dropped.

Can we just agree that hopefully Roy Keane will help Liam Miller to fulfil his promise and become even half as good. Let's hope Liam has a long and successful International career

Agreed, thank god that's over. :D

If Miller applies himself (and from what I've seen of him, I've no reason to doubt it) at United he'll be surrounded by top class players who he can learn from. In the long term i think it'll be an excellent move for him, my one concern is that united moved early for financial reasons, and next season could see him loaned out to gain experience that he should have been getting next season on celtic's first team.

Schumi

09/01/2004, 2:00 PM

Originally posted by �anna
unbelievably, there are some posters on the eircomLeague messageboard calling for Miller to be booed if he plays for Ireland, because
:rolleyes:

He has turned his back on a great Irish club
I feel sorry for these people, no grip on reality at all I think you'll find that was a pi$$ take.

DolansWaistcoat

09/01/2004, 2:08 PM

Ya I hope miller isn't loaned out to Burnley or some team like that.He needs to start playing games all the time now that he is starting to prove his worth but dropping down to division 1 isn't going to do him much good.He's not a young fella anymore,what is he 22?I hope fergie doesn't see him as a star of the future like your man Chadwick,who will probably never make it at the top level now.

I just heard on the radio that Martin O'Neil is very dissapointed that miller is leaving and that he tried everything he could to keep him at Celtic.

John83

09/01/2004, 3:58 PM

Originally posted by Lionel Ritchie
Agree with you there G. It has to be a real worry though that Ferguson would we advising him to get a gammy leg/itchy hole/bad hair day any time an international week rolls around.
If Miller isn't a regular at Man Utd, Fergie won't have any problem with him running off to play for us. He might even loan him to Birmingham or some such if he's not playing at all. And if he's a regular at Man Utd, he'll be a starting midfielder at one of the biggest clubs on the planet. We win as much as we lose both ways.

As for him getting into the Man Utd team, he'll play either on the right wing or in the middle. Right now, the right wing is weak for them, with only Ronaldo - a long-term replacement for Giggs, I suspect, Fletcher - who Fergie has already labeled a centre-mid, or Bellion, who is clearly preferred as a striker, to chose from. That said, Solskjaer will be back next season (remember, Miller doesn't actually join the club this year), though he's getting on a bit.

In central midfield, Butt is unsettled, and may move in the summer; Djemba-Djemba has been called a failure even by Man U's own fans - a crowd who stuck behind Forlan for ages, and even now support him; Scholes is preferred up front; Kleberson seems to have been played everywhere - on both wings, up front and in the middle, so he may well wind up on the left, or as back-up for Scholes. As for Phil Neville, form is temporary, class is perminant. Miller, if he's half as good as we think, will overtake him fairly sharpish. Oh, and Keane's already talked about retiring this summer or the one after. All that means that Miller has a distinct chance of breaking into that midfield.

As for those people who point out O'Shea's miserable for for us, please remember that however unhonourably he finished his career for us, when it actually mattered, Keane played his balls off for Ireland. Miller will play like he will play, and those who think two years is too long to wait for Miller to get first team football are proabably the same people who insist that at 30, Kavanagh is too old to consider.

carnstien

09/01/2004, 5:20 PM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy

I'm a Celtic fan, who's just seen my club been shafted by one of our brightest prospects in years, one we stuck by when it looked as if he'd not make it. Two years ago, he was on the treatment table and had been for twelve months before that.

And anyway, I'm entitled to let off a little steam at news like this.

It's a good move for him to sit in their reserves for a couple of years and not play in the first team until he's, what, twenty-five?

Yeah, that'll be great for his career with Ireland.

:mad: PP
This forum has **** all to do with Celtic, its a forum for discussion of topics relating to the Republic of Ireland international side. **** Celtic, I couldn't give a **** about them, I want to see the Irish team do well and in my opinion, Miller moving to United is good for us.

If you want to let off steam, do it on a Celtic Forum

I don't believe Miller will be sitting in the reserves until he is 25, but you are entitled to your opinion, although it will almost certainly be proven wrong.

tiktok

09/01/2004, 6:29 PM

Come off it Carnstein, be consistent, if you're going to have a go off PP for bringing the celtic point of view have a go off me for mentioning man united. The view of a Celtic fan is perfectly relevant here seeing as that's where Miller is moving from.

In fact, by just ranting at PP for his post, you managed to end up contributing less than him to the topic.

Plastic Paddy

09/01/2004, 6:38 PM

Originally posted by carnstien
This forum has **** all to do with Celtic, its a forum for discussion of topics relating to the Republic of Ireland international side. **** Celtic, I couldn't give a **** about them, I want to see the Irish team do well and in my opinion, Miller moving to United is good for us.

If you want to let off steam, do it on a Celtic Forum

I don't believe Miller will be sitting in the reserves until he is 25, but you are entitled to your opinion, although it will almost certainly be proven wrong.

My views on Miller were expressed here purely because he is expected to represent our international side in the future. The fact that I am a Celtic fan contributes to my perspective on his transfer. Is that clear enough for you now?

So good of you to say that I'm allowed my opinion, by the way. Proof positive that the interweb is a democracy. For the sake of our national side, I too hope I'm as wrong about Miller's chances of selection for ManUre as you think I'll be. But, as I said previously, the fact that he might be the next big thing in the green doesn't mean I have to like him.

:mad: PP

Glacky

09/01/2004, 8:01 PM

A final thought on the merits of Miller signing for UTD and his chances of playing any meaningful games.

Does anyone honestly believe that UTD would have signed him if we wasn't coming out of contract and actually cost �4 or 5 million ?

Nothing for Ferguson to lose on a free transfer but could do mucho harm to Ireland if he doesn't get games.

A face

09/01/2004, 9:40 PM

I am not going to go through this thread because it is all about Sell-Thick and ManUre so i will ask anyway !!

Miller went from Ballincollig FC to Sell-Thick FC

And he is now going from Sell-Thick FC to ManUre

Will Ballincollig get any money out of either of the British clubs with this transfer ?

Plastic Paddy

09/01/2004, 9:49 PM

Ballincollig (sounds like a childhood illness to me ;) but then, what would I know?) won't see a penny, a cent nor a dime. Even if they had a sell-on clause with Celtic (yes, you can say it if you try reeally hard), this will have been negated by Miller's departure on a free. Ah well.

:D PP

A face

09/01/2004, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
won't see a penny, a cent nor a dime.

Yen, Pesos or Dinars would do aswell like :)

D'ah nuts !! Frinkin' system .... it's all wrong .... wrong i tells ya !!

John83

10/01/2004, 1:17 PM

Originally posted by A face
Will Ballincollig get any money out of either of the British clubs with this transfer ?
They'll get about 5% of the transfer fee. Unfortunately, 5% of �0 is still �0. If Man U ever stell him, Ballincollig will get some of the money, though I think Celtic won't, since they're not an Irish club (despite what some people think :p).

frano

10/01/2004, 2:08 PM

Originally posted by Conor74
:eek:

Great, he might learn (i) how to play well for your club and not for your country from J o'Shea Esq. or (ii) how not to play for your country at all, lessons provided by a certain Mr. Keane...

John o'Shea doesn't play as well for Ireland as he does for United. I agree. The same is said about Scholes for England. Again true.
But then week in week out, they both play along side better players in a better team, than either of them do at international level.
It's not rocket science Conor, although the the only decent thing he did in Switzerland was sigh my nephews shirt before the game. Ahh Switzerland, on second thoughts... lets not eh!

Gary

10/01/2004, 3:43 PM

I actually dont know whether this is a good or a bad move for Miller. I tend to agree with whoever said that if UTD had to pay �4mstg, that they wouldnt bother.

Thing is, with Celtic he isnt really improving himself. OK he will get 1st team footie, european football, but the UEFA aint worth much more that the CarlingCup.

On the other hand, with UTD, he will learn from fellas like Giggs, Scholes, Keane (w�nker) etc. Even if he is shipped out on loan to the 1st division, he will be playing in a better standard, certainly a better standard of opposition that Partick or Livingstone et al, who would be at best 3rd division clubs in England.

DolansWaistcoat

11/01/2004, 11:08 AM

Celtic did very well in the CL the last few years(except against Basel)and I think it would have to be better for Miller to be playing in the uefa cup than facing the likes of Rotherham and Wimbledon if hes put out on loan to division 1.It depends though if sir Fergie plays him for utd or sends him out for first team experience.If this happens it will be a disaster for Miller and for Ireland.

A face

11/01/2004, 4:54 PM

Originally posted by John83
though I think Celtic won't, since they're not an Irish club (despite what some people think :p).

:D .... Classic !! i likes it, i likes it, i likes it !! :D

scouser

12/01/2004, 10:13 AM

I have been listening to this debate between ye two tossers for some time and like I said, I think that Conor74 is being biased towards the 2 lads from Manchester cos they play for em. I support pool but always get behind the talented irish lads abroad and like to c em do well. O' Shea and Keane are exceptionally talented and play good footie.

Scouser.

DolansWaistcoat

12/01/2004, 10:37 AM

This is about Miller,not Keane and O'Shea.I agree with ya though supporting our own when they're playing abroad is the done thing.

The pool are picking up a few wins now,thank god.:D

John83

12/01/2004, 1:05 PM

Originally posted by DolansWaistcoat
It depends though if sir Fergie plays him for utd or sends him out for first team experience.If this happens it will be a disaster for Miller and for Ireland.
I don't agree. Kavanagh and Reid are playing first division footie, as is Breen, and no one's calling for their heads just because they're not playing in the top flight in England. Don't forget either that Premiership clubs are now allowed loan to eachother, so Miller could wind up at, say, Spurs on loan. Not exactly the end of the world, is it? It's not like we depend on him as it stands - some people seem to forget that the guy isn't even capped!

scouser

12/01/2004, 1:52 PM

For the record, I now am calling for Breen's head.

Scouser.

Macy

12/01/2004, 2:38 PM

A few things....

1) If O'Neill OBE was such a supporter of Miller why did he only give him a 1 year deal? Because he obviously didn't rate him at the time is the conclusion you have to make. Miller stubbled into the Celtic team, and O'Neill got caught on the hop by not spotting his talent.

2) Under the rules Miller was quite entitled to make the move (and it doesn't really compare to Celtic's/ Pearsons behaviour in the latters move to Parkhead - and he's the new hero)

3) I doubt SAF would've chanced money on Miller, and it will remain to be seen whether he's good enough. Ultimately that's what it boils down too, nothing to do with who he's playing for....

4) For the record - Roy Keane has been rested for Premiership and Champions League games this season, so much for the amount of games huh...

5) O'Shea has disappointed for Ireland, but I doubt it's part of some great conspiracy, more to do with the standard of players around him. Incidentally his worst performances for Ireland, coincided with his dip in club form. It happens to players, esp young players.

6) Kill all dippers

Slash/ED

12/01/2004, 6:10 PM

O'Sheas preformances for Ireland have been no worse then Duffs first appearences. Like O'Shea, Duffs club form was alot better then his form for us early doors and the same string of eejits slagging off O'Shea were saying Duff would never make it back then too. The fact is, as a young player his form goes up and down. Lets not forget, he was voted man of the match against Georgia in the qualifyers. Given time and, more importantly, a position (He wont be left back long term, imo) and we'll see the star that is clearly in the making with that lad, like we did with Duff not so long ago.

Mind you, this is about Liam Miller. I imagine next season he will be given a role similar to Klebersons one this season, in and out of the side and given time to establish himself. What he does from there will depend on how good the lad is.

frano

12/01/2004, 6:19 PM

Couldn't have put it better myself.

All young players need time, simple as that.

Although the way things are going in the Premiership, that may soon change to: all young players do time!

John83

13/01/2004, 9:58 AM

Originally posted by Macy
O'Shea has disappointed for Ireland, but I doubt it's part of some great conspiracy, more to do with the standard of players around him. Incidentally his worst performances for Ireland, coincided with his dip in club form. It happens to players, esp young players.
That's true. He's been muck for Man U all season - second season syndrome possibly. That or he just isn't as good as we thought.

John83

13/01/2004, 9:59 AM

Originally posted by Slash/ED
O'Sheas preformances for Ireland have been no worse then Duffs first appearences. Like O'Shea, Duffs club form was alot better then his form for us early doors and the same string of eejits slagging off O'Shea were saying Duff would never make it back then too. The fact is, as a young player his form goes up and down. Lets not forget, he was voted man of the match against Georgia in the qualifyers. Given time and, more importantly, a position (He wont be left back long term, imo) and we'll see the star that is clearly in the making with that lad, like we did with Duff not so long ago.

Mind you, this is about Liam Miller. I imagine next season he will be given a role similar to Klebersons one this season, in and out of the side and given time to establish himself. What he does from there will depend on how good the lad is.
Here, here!