The League

[forza rovers]

before i start this thread im not trying to stir any thing as any loss of a club from the league is sad

so with cork likely to fold will the points they have already got and future fixtures be giving to the opposition or will they take Finn harps up?also is this a first where a club folded during the season in this league?

[shantykelly]

continuity dublin home farm city.

[Red&White Rover]

What this league needs, is definetely another Dublin club.

You can never have enough.

[SkStu]

if they go, the points gained against Cork by any team will be taken from their total, a la Dublin City, if i remember correctly.

[Hairy Bowsie]

What the league needs, is to be spelt right in the thread title.

[pineapple stu]

Just as likely to cure it as another change in the size of the Premier in fairness.

[don ramo]

stop the season half way through, then start up winter football again, with a 16 or 18 team premier division, and a first division north and south, still have the A teams to make up the numbers in the first division, maybe 10 teams in each,

[RoversHead]

What the league needs, is to be spelt right in the thread title. Another pearl of football genius from the Arian grammer police.

[Sheridan]

It's Aryan. Arianism is a different thing entirely. ;)

[thischarmingman]

Another pearl of football genius from the Arian grammer police.

At first I thought, "Wow." But then I started to doubt. So much so that I had to look up Wikipedia:

"The term "Arianism" is also used to refer to other nontrinitarian theological systems of the 4th century, which regarded the Son of God, the Logos, as a created being (as in Arianism proper and Anomoeanism) or as neither uncreated nor created in the sense other beings are created (as in "Semi-Arianism")."

Even after reading that 3 times I still wondered if maybe that was indeed what was meant, before finally reverting back to "Wow."

[shantykelly]

if they go, the points gained against Cork by any team will be taken from their total, a la Dublin City, if i remember correctly.

see, i said it with less words. im going for a homer-esque increase in efficiency.

[Dodge]

Think the exact word used is "expunged"

First, and last time I ever heard it. Works perfectly though

[shantykelly]

do they not usually use it to refer to court records that have been officially destroyed? heard it somewhere else, just can't remember where.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Another pearl of football genius from the Arian grammer police.

:D:D:D

[Gareth]

As stated above, a 16 team Premier Division, no First division, with the A League being the league were potential new teams can develop and grow, as well as "feeder" clubs who are not after promotion, just the development of talent in the league. Sort of a Wexford Youths style setup in different centers around the country.

Teams in Dublin should really share grounds rather than having resources wasted maintaining numerous grounds.

The 10 team PRO league was dead before it was even close to happening. We need to nurture talent and stop shooting ourselves in the foot with 10 team leagues and 3 Divisions. Resources are small already.

[Maynard]

As stated above, a 16 team Premier Division, no First division, with the A League being the league were potential new teams can develop and grow, as well as "feeder" clubs who are not after promotion, just the development of talent in the league. Sort of a Wexford Youths style setup in different centers around the country.

Teams in Dublin should really share grounds rather than having resources wasted maintaining numerous grounds.

The 10 team PRO league was dead before it was even close to happening. We need to nurture talent and stop shooting ourselves in the foot with 10 team leagues and 3 Divisions. Resources are small already.

There's no place for sensible thinking such as that which is quite blatantly flouted above. Someone put a gag on this man, and quickly.

[corkharps]

As stated above, a 16 team Premier Division, no First division, with the A League being the league were potential new teams can develop and grow, as well as "feeder" clubs who are not after promotion, just the development of talent in the league. Sort of a Wexford Youths style setup in different centers around the country.

Teams in Dublin should really share grounds rather than having resources wasted maintaining numerous grounds.

The 10 team PRO league was dead before it was even close to happening. We need to nurture talent and stop shooting ourselves in the foot with 10 team leagues and 3 Divisions. Resources are small already.

Nail on the head!:ball:

[brianw82]

What the league needs, is to be spelt right in the thread title.

Perhaps it's a regional dialect?

Cup of tae?

[RoversHead]

It's Aryan. Arianism is a different thing entirely. ;)The constant interuption of important threads on the survival of football in Ireland with grammer lessons should be considerd as an act of Heresy ,the rejection of the more established belief that the survival of football is more important than any single spelling crime.This site is infested with Arians .Context and content would be a better angle of attack for your lot giving you the added bonus of leaving your own posts open to no critique what so ever
The fact that the tone and content of some of these posts would be found offensive by a number of groups in our society ie people with literacy, learning difficulties would enable me to use Aryan but I reserve that for a more serios brand of muppet now back to the football please.

[gufc2000]

before i start this thread im not trying to stir any thing as any loss of a club from the league is sad

so with cork likely to fold will the points they have already got and future fixtures be giving to the opposition or will they take Finn harps up?also is this a first where a club folded during the season in this league?
There is no way they could promote Finn Harps at this stage. If they did they would be fixing one problem but creating another. Cork City's points and any points gained against them would be wiped out

[RoversHead]

As stated above, a 16 team Premier Division, no First division, with the A League being the league were potential new teams can develop and grow, as well as "feeder" clubs who are not after promotion, just the development of talent in the league. Sort of a Wexford Youths style setup in different centers around the country.

Teams in Dublin should really share grounds rather than having resources wasted maintaining numerous grounds.

The 10 team PRO league was dead before it was even close to happening. We need to nurture talent and stop shooting ourselves in the foot with 10 team leagues and 3 Divisions. Resources are small already.
Spot on

[JC_GUFC]

There is no way they could promote Finn Harps at this stage. If they did they would be fixing one problem but creating another. Cork City's points and any points gained against them would be wiped out

Actually in the latest rules of the league the average number of points a team got against the team dropping out is used to determine how many they're awarded. That's why Cork have to at least see out the 1st series of games.

Bohs fans will be up in arms as they lost and Derry won againt Cork - meaning Derry will get an extra 9 points while Bohs get none.

[RoversHead]

Are any of the cork fans who post on here involved with foras?or can anyone from Cork tell us what the situation is ?

[don ramo]

so well have a 9 team premier division, that will be great :o:o:o

[Dodge]

Actually in the latest rules of the league the average number of points a team got against the team dropping out is used to determine how many they're awarded. That's why Cork have to at least see out the 1st series of games.

Bohs fans will be up in arms as they lost and Derry won againt Cork - meaning Derry will get an extra 9 points while Bohs get none.

Fair play, din't realise this. I'm now in the horrible position of half wanting them to go bust just so we'll get another 6 points this year

[Gareth]

16 team Premier Leagues are not the way forward,The Premier League should be 12 teams MAX,there isnt enough talent for more than 12 teams

One of the disadvantages of a 12 team league is the requirement of playing each other 3 times. Playing each other twice creates too short a league and 4 times too long with way too much repetition. 16 teams allows the league to run for 30 series. At present we have 22 teams operating in the Premier and the First. This league represents a loss of 6 of those teams.

[the-blue-harp]

Perhaps it's a regional dialect?

Cup of tae?

thats the official language of the country...Irish, not a regional dialect.

[pineapple stu]

This league represents a loss of 6 of those teams.
It doesn't have to if you merge the six extra teams with those in the A Championship to form a new First Division.


Actually in the latest rules of the league the average number of points a team got against the team dropping out is used to determine how many they're awarded. That's why Cork have to at least see out the 1st series of games.

Bohs fans will be up in arms as they lost and Derry won againt Cork - meaning Derry will get an extra 9 points while Bohs get none.
Am I the only one who thinks that's completely nonsensical?

[Gareth]

It doesn't have to if you merge the six extra teams with those in the A Championship to form a new First Division.


Am I the only one who thinks that's completely nonsensical?

Pineapple I fully agree, and as the ad says... Past performance is no guarantee of future gains. It is mad. Only way is to wipe all results, or if a team has played everyone once, then let it be.

As for the merge, yes, but I would not be a fan of calling it a First Division. I'd prefer Secondary League or something. When did the world of football need to have all it's leagues classified as representing the first element of a sequence. (A League, The Championship, The Premier League, The First Division). Is it some fear of being labelled second?

[pineapple stu]

It's always been the First Division, I suppose (taking the B Division as a different competition). We have at least stuck with our names, unlike those across the water. But the principle is that no club should be forced out of business by a 16-team Premier.

[Dodge]

Don't forget the leagu has alreasy had 16 team leagues and it wasn't exactly setting the world alight then either

The amount of clubs in the top division is totally irrevelant to the situation that Cork, and others, find themselves in

[pineapple stu]

Piffle. Change the number of teams! It's not worked so many times before that it's bound to work now.

[Gareth]

Don't forget the leagu has alreasy had 16 team leagues and it wasn't exactly setting the world alight then either

The amount of clubs in the top division is totally irrevelant to the situation that Cork, and others, find themselves in

The number of teams was the lesser point compared to the point that we can't pump all the money into wages and say it's a professional league. We need to put the money into the structures. Like developing younger players, stadia etc

[Dodge]

Agreed, so why mention the amount of teams in the league at all?

[Gareth]

Agreed, so why mention the amount of teams in the league at all?

Because albeit a lesser point, it was a point I wanted to make. I dislike the idea of playing three or four rounds in a league. 16 teams would eliminate that.

[John83]

I'd agree that expunging the games played would be fairer than extrapolating the results (or even leaving whole . That said, I'm pretty sure I remember some teams bitching like hell when they lost points after Dublin City's (or "Sea Day" as their fans used sing) results were expunged.

The FAI seem to be happy with the ten team division for now - "The current structure lends itself to a concentration of the top talent in a smaller number of clubs which improves the standard of those teams. This should help those teams continue to improve the playing standard in this country and also allow clubs to enhance their European performances which have been excellent over the past few years... We will continue to monitor the structure of the League to ensure at all times that the set up is the most appropriate one for the development of both the player and the League as a whole." This from Padraig Smith's Q&A (http://foot.ie/blog/footie-qa-padraig-smith/). Doubtless, they'll have a similar argument when they switch back to a 12 team division, but if that's representative of their thinking, I'd expect them to reject a 16 team division out of hand.


thats the official language of the country...Irish, not a regional dialect.
If someone consistently uses tae in English, it's not an Irish word, but a dialect word in Hibernian English. The phrase, "Cup of tae" is not Irish.


The constant interuption of important threads on the survival of football in Ireland with grammer lessons should be considerd as an act of Heresy ,the rejection of the more established belief that the survival of football is more important than any single spelling crime.This site is infested with Arians .Context and content would be a better angle of attack for your lot giving you the added bonus of leaving your own posts open to no critique what so ever
The fact that the tone and content of some of these posts would be found offensive by a number of groups in our society ie people with literacy, learning difficulties would enable me to use Aryan but I reserve that for a more serios brand of muppet now back to the football please.
Some people like to be able to read the argument without wincing.

Some people have learning difficulties, no doubt, but others are just too lazy to write correctly. The only dyslexic person I've ever discussed this with admitted that he took great care writing his posts, proof reading them before he posted out of respect for those who would read them. His posts are consistently clearer and better written than almost anyone else I know.
There are spell checkers built into Firefox (and presumably other browsers by now). There are grammar checker plug ins. There's no excuse for almost all of the people who type badly. That they dismiss criticism with politically correct references to learning difficulties disrespects the efforts of those who actually have them to overcome their limitations.

[RoversHead]

I'd agree that expunging the games played would be fairer than extrapolating the results (or even leaving whole . That said, I'm pretty sure I remember some teams bitching like hell when they lost points after Dublin City's (or "Sea Day" as their fans used sing) results were expunged.

The FAI seem to be happy with the ten team division for now - "The current structure lends itself to a concentration of the top talent in a smaller number of clubs which improves the standard of those teams. This should help those teams continue to improve the playing standard in this country and also allow clubs to enhance their European performances which have been excellent over the past few years... We will continue to monitor the structure of the League to ensure at all times that the set up is the most appropriate one for the development of both the player and the League as a whole." This from Padraig Smith's Q&A (http://foot.ie/blog/footie-qa-padraig-smith/). Doubtless, they'll have a similar argument when they switch back to a 12 team division, but if that's representative of their thinking, I'd expect them to reject a 16 team division out of hand.


If someone consistently uses tae in English, it's not an Irish word, but a dialect word in Hibernian English. The phrase, "Cup of tae" is not Irish.


Some people like to be able to read the argument without wincing.

Some people have learning difficulties, no doubt, but others are just too lazy to write correctly. The only dyslexic person I've ever discussed this with admitted that he took great care writing his posts, proof reading them before he posted out of respect for those who would read them. His posts are consistently clearer and better written than almost anyone else I know.
There are spell checkers built into Firefox (and presumably other browsers by now). There are grammar checker plug ins. There's no excuse for almost all of the people who type badly. That they dismiss criticism with politically correct references to learning difficulties disrespects the efforts of those who actually have them to overcome their limitations.
Wow ,The fact that the FAI are happy with the current situation because it allows for the nurture of tallent should be a cause for some concern considering clubs are facing going out of existance,not the Wexford youths but the so called elite Bohs and Cork .
By the way "Lazy instead of retarded" now thats Aryan ,your another grammer spammer who gives foot.ie a bad name .

[John83]

Wow ,The fact that the FAI are happy with the current situation because it allows for the nurture of tallent should be a cause for some concern considering clubs are facing going out of existance,not the Wexford youths but the so called elite Bohs and Cork .
I don't think we can blame the 10 team Premier for Cork's woes, nor for the troubles Bohs seem to be storing up for themselves.

A lot of people here have long derided the recurring idea that changing the number of teams in the division solves anything. It also doesn't really cause any major problems. Those clubs would be in trouble regardless.

I don't entirely agree with the reasoning I quoted, but I don't think it's invalidated by the financial crises the league has faced.


By the way "Lazy instead of retarded" now thats Aryan ,your another grammer spammer who gives foot.ie a bad name .
I have a sneaking suspicion that you don't know what Aryan means. I find it somewhat embarrassing that I keep meeting people from countries where indoor plumbing is considered a magical modernity who speak and write better English than my supposedly fluent countrymen.

[the-blue-harp]

If someone consistently uses tae in English, it's not an Irish word, but a dialect word in Hibernian English. The phrase, "Cup of tae" is not Irish.



I have never heard it used anywhere else:D

[don ramo]

settle down now class:D


16 team premier league is the bets way to go, and all these idiotic owners stop spending beyond there means, since 2005 the winners are cork city, shels, drogs and bohs twice, 3 of those clubs have had serious financial issues and from pure rourmour bohs are suppose to have also,

the only reason 16 teams will have such a hugh dwarf in talent is cause there will always be 3 or 4 clubs spending way beyond there means,

then outside the premier division, have exactly what the A league is at the moment, 2 regionalised divisions north and south, you have the 6 teams left from the first divsion and the current 6 teams playing in the A league, include the 16 premier A teams, and you have 2 14 teams divisions seperated north and south for travel reasons and more derbies also, have a 28 game season (play each other twice), then have the top 3 teams from north and south enter playoffs (or a 6 team mini league breakaway) for promotion,

out of the 6, 2 teams go up, and 2 come down from the premier and they do not have play-offs (you finnish in the bottom 2 your gone)

[RoversHead]

The idea that a smaller group of clubs on a full time pro footing will raise the standerd and profile of the game along with nurturing young tallant has no real basis in reality.Young tallent is developed at schoolboy level to a very good standerd all over the country year in year out but the cream of our schoolboy crop only ever make fleeting appearances in the domestic league if at all.Im not against players earning money and playing full time but the wages have to be realistic.Im still not convinced that cutting adrift viable clubs in a graveyard division helps football in this country in any way.Im not going to bash the FAI as I think they will get the league running in the right way as soon as they start enforcing rules evenly across the board but the clubs and indeed some of the overpaid players need a reality check .

[Neish]

As stated above, a 16 team Premier Division, no First division, with the A League being the league were potential new teams can develop and grow, as well as "feeder" clubs who are not after promotion, just the development of talent in the league. Sort of a Wexford Youths style setup in different centers around the country.

Teams in Dublin should really share grounds rather than having resources wasted maintaining numerous grounds.

The 10 team PRO league was dead before it was even close to happening. We need to nurture talent and stop shooting ourselves in the foot with 10 team leagues and 3 Divisions. Resources are small already.

Best solution I've heard yet, but what are the chances of the FAI paying any attention to this.

So what would you top 16 be? Mines would be

Finn Harps
Sligo Rovers
Derry City
Galway United
Bohemians
Shamrock Rovers
St. Patrick's Athletic
Shelbourne
U.C.D.
Cork City*
Dundalk
Drogheda United
Bray Wanderers
Waterford
Athlone
Longford

* If Cork fold replace with either Limerick, Kildare or Cobh

[pineapple stu]

Kildare in the Premier. :eek:

Just so long as they get a bit of notice first.

[Dodge]

Best solution I've heard yet, but what are the chances of the FAI paying any attention to this.


What solutions? Change the amount of teams in the league and force the Dublin clubs to groundshare?

What would that do?

[Neish]

What solutions? Change the amount of teams in the league and force the Dublin clubs to groundshare?

What would that do?


Not talking about the ground share but the 16 team division. Team that win A League could be given opportunity to apply for licence for premier. Some of the teams I listed in my 16 aren't in great shape (including Harps) but most if not all have supporter bases or potential bases to keep them ticking over

[Dodge]

I'll ask again, what is a 16 team league a solution to?

I'd love to see harps in the premier but what do the proponents of a 16 team league think that this will achieve?

[gufc2000]

Best solution I've heard yet, but what are the chances of the FAI paying any attention to this.

So what would you top 16 be? Mines would be

Finn Harps
Sligo Rovers
Derry City
Galway United
Bohemians
Shamrock Rovers
St. Patrick's Athletic
Shelbourne
U.C.D.
Cork City*
Dundalk
Drogheda United
Bray Wanderers
Waterford
Athlone
Longford

* If Cork fold replace with either Limerick, Kildare or Cobh
:eek::eek::eek:. Kildare and Cobh in the Premier? That would be a joke. Monaghan and Wexford are run far better than a few clubs you already have in the Premier.

Mine would be:
Bohemians
St Patricks Athletic
Shamrock Rovers
Shelbourne
Dundalk
Galway United
Sligo Rovers
Waterford United
Derry City
Finn Harps
Limerick FC
Drogheda Utd
Waterford Utd
UCD
Bray Wanderers
Monaghan Utd

If Cork don't fold, I'd have them in for Monaghan

That leaves Athlone, Longford Town, Fingal, Mervue, Kildare, Cobh, Castlebar, Tralee, Carlow, Salthill, Tullamore, Wexford Youths and possibly Kilkenny and Portlaoise to be split into regionalised groups along with some reserve teams from above

[don ramo]

I'll ask again, what is a 16 team league a solution to?
repetitiviness

[Sheridan]

Don't you think every team outside the top five having a meaningless fixture every week for two thirds of the season would be repetitive enough?

[LeixlipRed]

Pats might not lose 3-0 to some of those teams though :cool: