Cork City Future.

[Ezeikial]

Over 150 posts and no one has blamed Sean Connor yet!

Ye are all getting too soft in the head

[OneRedArmy]

Can I ask one simple question.? How can it be that a club operating in a city the size of Cork cannot be financially viable?
(I saw Albert Rovers and Evergreen United play and God knows how many manifestations sence then)Presumably the same reason that Dublin clubs with similar, if not larger, catchment populations aren't financially viable, Limerick can't maintain a Premier Division club and Derry get into trouble once a decade. Having a ready access to a large population doesn't mean anything in this country.

As Dodge says, every new investor thinks they'll be the one to break the cycle of apathy towards domestic football.

[don ramo]

Just a quick point in relation to Cobh, it's all well and good to argue about the way the Revenue dealt with them but they messed things up for themselves by not even submitting audited accounts, as per Padraig Smith on the blog. If it had just been a tax clearance cert that was outstanding I think they'd have got a First Division licence though strictly speaking they shouldn't have.

actually we did submit audited accounts, they may have been late but we submitted them,

we didnt get a tax cert and were rightly relegated, if we had enough of a fan base the fans could have scrapped together a down payment, and the club agree a payback period, which is exactly what city done, and look where they are,

it really is one rule for one and another for the big clubs,

city are able to earn good money, by having the draw of premier football and they should have done what drogs done and cut cost way down, they had every advantage to get the club going but choose not to, why??, i would really love to know,

we had a nearly 66% drop (based on our average attendance the last 5 years) at our first home game friday night in the A league, thats massive, were looseing major money in sponsorship for the year, we are asking a lot of our youth section to help the club the club back on its legs, and i truely hope they are rewarded for there efforts, there making huge commitments for the club, im very envious and ****ed off that cork city couldnt get there act together, they have every advantage to do so,

[sonofstan]

I simply cannot understand how he would do this? He's a city councillor and will surely have to quit that if he's going to bust Cork City FC. Surely he will put the club up for sale rather than leave it go out of business.:confused::confused::confused::

You think being a city councillor is a hallmark of probity in this country?! have you been paying attention at all? does the phrase 'planning tribunal' ring any bells?

[Jeebus]

I would question the examiner who handed it to him just as much (and I know for a fact alternatives were there). The guy gets paid a lot of money to ensure that things like this don't happen. What a halfwit.:mad:

I havent read through all the posts on this, but i think someone mentions further down that Coughlan had to lodge 500K in an account before the examiner could even put the offer forward to the high court. I dont think you can blame the examiner on this one, it think its solely on Coughlans side for dupping the courts with his promises. An examiner will not put any deal forward unless he is satisfied that the company/club will be safe in the future. It would be aganist the ethics of an accountant to even consider lying to q high court judge. Also this is the same examiner (firm) that saved Shams and Drogheda too. I would think their creditability couldnt be questioned.

[Umberside]

You think being a city councillor is a hallmark of probity in this country?! have you been paying attention at all? does the phrase 'planning tribunal' ring any bells?


I meant it would ruin his political career if he liquidated the club.

[brianw82]

I meant it would ruin his political career if he liquidated the club.

That would actually imply that Ireland has a little thing called accountability. Last time I checked, it was sold for a few sacks of sugar in 1883.

[Maynard]

When did they do this?

Just look at the statements released by Fran Gavin at the time when Cork were clearly in the sh1t before the start of the season. They basically stated that Cork could have more debt than the continent of Africa and that the FAI still wanted them in Europe. It's not hearsay.

[Umberside]

Just look at the statements released by Fran Gavin at the time when Cork were clearly in the sh1t before the start of the season. They basically stated that Cork could have more debt than the continent of Africa and that the FAI still wanted them in Europe. It's not hearsay.

Fran Gavin needs to step aside. I don't think anyone really has much faith in him anymore:(

[Marco]

I meant it would ruin his political career if he liquidated the club.


He also advertised the CPO post, 30 answered, 5 interviewed and his brother got the job. Rumour has it he makes the sandwiches for the team and watches them train in Bishopstown, they got rid of the volenteers that were with the club for years but harp on that they need volenteers to help keep costs down!

[Marco]

actually we did submit audited accounts, they may have been late but we submitted them,

we didnt get a tax cert and were rightly relegated, if we had enough of a fan base the fans could have scrapped together a down payment, and the club agree a payback period, which is exactly what city done, and look where they are,

it really is one rule for one and another for the big clubs,

city are able to earn good money, by having the draw of premier football and they should have done what drogs done and cut cost way down, they had every advantage to get the club going but choose not to, why??, i would really love to know,

we had a nearly 66% drop (based on our average attendance the last 5 years) at our first home game friday night in the A league, thats massive, were looseing major money in sponsorship for the year, we are asking a lot of our youth section to help the club the club back on its legs, and i truely hope they are rewarded for there efforts, there making huge commitments for the club, im very envious and ****ed off that cork city couldnt get there act together, they have every advantage to do so,

They have a huge advantage is all aspects, but for Cobh the club has huge potential but only if the personal differences are left outside the gate. The A league will sot out who is actually behind the club.

[Buile Shuibhne]

The examinership process may have dealt with the tax clearance - Cork would have come out of it with an agreement for repaying it.

I'm kind of loath to comment on a rumour, though it does seem plausible Cork are gone, but I find it surprising that the club were allowed out of examinership without a business plan capable of keeping them afloat for six months. Either they haven't kept to the plan they set out, or the examiner screwed up here. Aportioning blame is hard without seeing a lot of details here.



I find it hard to believe that Cork would have build up a high tax – as is been speculated here – having presumably wiped their slate clear under much reduced terms in coming out of examinership.

Examinership was sought because the club owed its creditors €1.3 million, including €360,000 to the Revenue Commissioners. A number of players and staff had to be let go and the fortnightly wages bill had been reduced from €91,000 to €71,000.
………………………………………
The Revenue would receive 16.96 per cent of what it was owed under the scheme, the judge said. If the football team was successful in the final of the Setanta Cup on November 1st, that figure could rise to 24.6 per cent.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1017/1224108325510.html






Came across this article too
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/1104/1225523343071.html

[don ramo]

I find it hard to believe that Cork would have build up a high tax – as is been speculated here – having presumably wiped their slate clear under much reduced terms in coming out of examinership.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1017/1224108325510.html






Came across this article too
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/1104/1225523343071.html

you cant write off tax as bad debth, unless your liquidated,

any accountants here that can back it up either way,

[Buile Shuibhne]

Yeah but the max debt tax they carried forward was 90k under the terms of the examinership. Even if they haven't since paid one cent off that - I can't see them since having built up a tax debt of 200K / 300k / 400k or especially 500k as has been bandied about on the interweb forums the past couple of days.

[WexCar]

Yeah but the max debt tax they carried forward was 90k under the terms of the examinership. Even if they haven't since paid one cent off that - I can't see them since having built up a tax debt of 200K / 300k / 400k or especially 500k as has been bandied about on the interweb forums the past couple of days.

interest builds up on unpaid tax bills very quickly at a very unreasonable rate so its not impossible

[Dunny]

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/new-f ... 07100.html (http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/new-fears-for-cork-survival-1707100.html)

Apologies if this was already posted.

[Saint Tom]

:rolleyes:
eh ye but what i mean is that they are like the only league club in the second biggest county. they just seem to have so much potential and if i was a casual loi fan i would probably support them. i have a few of their jerseys, plus look at all the players they have developed like kevin doyle.

top club.

they did really well to develop him all by themselves in 18 months didnt they?

[Dodge]

Good spot Tom, missed that

[Scrufil]

Dunny the Herald piece contains, like here, a lot of speculation. Normally there is no fire without smoke. It will be interesting to see which way the flames fan.

[Gareth]

I just can't see how clubs can operate on a fortnightly wage bill of 71k. 142k a month is a huge bill for a club that could face two matches at home in a month, with an average attendance of 2500 (am I being unfair with this, I am going to three or four home games I looked back on). That could be 5000 on an average entrance of 13 euro (I'm judging the attendance to be made up of freebies, children, OAP's and adults)

So based on that 65k comes in from the crowd. You have shops and bars, but you also have staff, insurance, general costs of lighting, heating, phones, stationary and security.

That means you are looking at 77k worth of a shortfall each month to be covered by advertising, sponsorship, and hand outs.

I am all for positivity and the development of the league, but when did running up huge debts by financing wages alone form any kind of model for a successful business. Talking about professional leagues is one thing but the reality of running it is another and if we continue to believe in these things,then the future is a league in constant crisis.

Money should not be invested in wages, but player development, facilities and infrastructure.

[Dunny]

Dunny the Herald piece contains, like here, a lot of speculation. Normally there is no fire without smoke. It will be interesting to see which way the flames fan.

I know that, I never said otherwise.

[Martinho II]

Yet again there has to be a bad news story hitting the eircom league when will this ever end? I read that article from a ex cork city fan in last sundays mail on sunday and it really brought it home to me what he had to go through. It is a disgrace the way Coughlin is running the club to the ground he really made things hard for himself by axing Matthews.As for Paul Doolin in hindsight he should have stayed at Drogs. I feel sorry for Doolin though that he has to go thro this sh!t twice in a year.

If ye have to start all over again so be it. It did no harm to limerick who are a better run club and they changed the name of the club too.

I wish the cork fans all the best .They really need all the fortune over the next few yrs and mths.

[Umberside]

A debt of 77k is ridiculous. By the end of the season it will amount to 618k debt. By the end of July we would be in 308k debt already. There is also 250k owed to the Revenue Commissioners and Alan Mathews is looking for 300k because he was sacked. So a total of 1,168,000 of debt would be run up by the end of the season.

On a 91k shortfall per month (during the Arkaga era), by the end of July they had lost 364k. Taking into account they were in charge from December and no income until start of March then 271k would've been built up by the start of the season. So by 14 August (the date last year we entered examinership) we would've been in 635k debt. Plus there was unknown money owed to creditors of almost 700k to make the total loss by 14 August 2008 over 1.3 million euro.

So far we are only in about 100k debt so if someone can act quickly then we'll be easily saved as 100k isn't too hard to pay (in football finance terms). The new owner(s) could pay the 250k owed to the Revenue Commissioners, tell Mathews to **** off and cut the wages or sell some of the highest-earning players. If Coughlan sells without saying the club is in serious debt then the whole situation will be resolved without anyone raising an eyebrow. Problem solved

[Longfordian]

So far we are only in about 100k debt so if someone can act quickly then we'll be easily saved as 100k isn't too hard to pay (in football finance terms). The new owner(s) could pay the 250k owed to the Revenue Commissioners, tell Mathews to **** off and cut the wages or sell some of the highest-earning players. If Coughlan sells without saying the club is in serious debt then the whole situation will be resolved without anyone raising an eyebrow. Problem solved

Yes, that'll do it. If he wins his case then he'll have to be paid whatever he's awarded one way or another or else you'll go bankrupt. Plus nobody is going to buy any of your players and they most likely won't agree to any further cuts so will either stay on on their current wage or walk for nothing.

[Umberside]

Plus nobody is going to buy any of your players and they most likely won't agree to any further cuts so will either stay on on their current wage or walk for nothing.

I couldn't disagree more. Joe Gamble, Colin Healy, Dan Murray and Guntars Silagailis. Those four players are better than any four let's say St Patrick's Athletic or Dundalk could come up with, and who do you have at Longford by the way?

[Poor Student]

I think he means no club is going to bother paying anything other than a nominal fee to a publicly known stressed seller. Clubs will gladly take those players and others but for little or nothing.

[Longfordian]

You're missing the point. They won't pay money for them as they don't have it and the chances are they won't have to. That's what you mean by selling them, right?. Nobody will match their wages either. You're probably the highest paying club in the league this year if your reported wage bill of 140k a month is accurate.

Edit: As Poor Student has pointed out.

[Umberside]

I think he means no club is going to bother paying anything other than a nominal fee to a publicly known stressed seller. Clubs will gladly take those players and others but for little or nothing.

It's a shame alright that nearly all the transfer money generated is by selling players to British clubs. I can't think of any player who was "bought" during the last transfer window between LOI clubs either.

[Longfordian]

Mostly because clubs can't afford fees. Or wages but that's another story. The only fees that arise lately would seem to be compensation for under 23s who are out of contract. Most players move when their contracts are up as free agents.

[Umberside]

Mostly because clubs can't afford fees. Or wages but that's another story. The only fees that arise lately would seem to be compensation for under 23s who are out of contract. Most players move when their contracts are up as free agents.

We might be able to ship something across the Irish Sea though because we've done so for five years running.

[razor]

he just happened to be at city when he was noticed, Are you making out that this was a complete coincidence?

[celticV3]

I think it is clear whats going on. The curse continues. Faz kudozovic brings financial troubles to all clubs he goes to:o

[Longfordian]

We might be able to ship something across the Irish Sea though because we've done so for five years running.

Maybe, I don't see who though unless ye have some exceptional young lad but I would have thought he'd be in the first team squad if ye did. There's no obvious one like Mooney, O'Donovan, or Doyle were.

[Dodge]

We might be able to ship something across the Irish Sea though because we've done so for five years running.

How did that work out for you?

[dcfcsteve]

The first division when introducted made a mockery of Loi crowds. I am on about the pre era. Ihave seen crowds against Harps in League Cup crowds in the Showgrounds of 4,000 plus and a league game against Shams a massive puller. Get half that this season would be biggest in the Showgrounds all season.

I've made it clear all along that I was talking about the mid-to-late 80's - ie. the era after the First Division.

Whether it was the appearance of the First Division that made a mockery of crowds is very debatable. What is clear is that a 16 team league without promotion or relegation was a complete mockery anyway, such that a First Division was long overdue.

[don ramo]

I've made it clear all along that I was talking about the mid-to-late 80's - ie. the era after the First Division.

Whether it was the appearance of the First Division that made a mockery of crowds is very debatable. What is clear is that a 16 team league without promotion or relegation was a complete mockery anyway, such that a First Division was long overdue.


the FAI will have to have a really long meeting and come up with a league format, that is sustainable and can be keep people interested for years and years, i think a 16 would be great, play each other twice a season, which would deffinately increase rivilary amongst fans,

personally at the moment full-time set-ups arent viable options, maybe a half full-time half part-time would be more realistic, who knows, but you have to come up with something to make it more competitive, you will always have dominators, look at most european leages over the last ten years, has any league had more that 4 different teams win the league in that period,

you cant have a competitive league when your playing the same team every second month, and thats just league games,

we could talk like this for years, but who the hell are we, were just statistics on a sheet of paper at the bottom of the FAIs stack of thing to be done,

[Dodge]

the FAI will have to have a really long meeting and come up with a league format, that is sustainable and can be keep people interested for years and years
You do realize the league has been going since 1921. Must be sustainable enough...

[Fivesilver]

Only one big team outside Dublin in a couple of weeks :(.

Cheers for the vote of confidence, pol. No need to dismiss Derry out of hand, though - you could nearly stretch the imagination to include them with us in that category. :D

[Louth4sam]

I couldn't disagree more. Joe Gamble, Colin Healy, Dan Murray and Guntars Silagailis. Those four players are better than any four let's say St Patrick's Athletic or Dundalk could come up with, and who do you have at Longford by the way?

Do you really think Dundalk are going to give you money for players after Cork screwing us over by offering money to players that we we're about to sign pre season that you now can't afford??
I'm sure we would take any of those four, maybe we could work something out that we take the player off your wage bill and Cork still pay a 1/4 of their wages? ;)
Cork we're given a second chance and continued exactly the way they were pre examinership. They deserve everything they have coming. The only losers in this are the Cork fans.

[pól-dcfc]

Cheers for the vote of confidence, pol. No need to dismiss Derry out of hand, though - you could nearly stretch the imagination to include them with us in that category. :D

I can't believe it took so long for someone to do this! :D

You know what I mean though, no-one elses crowds get near ours and Cork's, and we've been the most successful non-dub clubs in the past 20 years - probably gonna get taken to task by Dundalk fans for that one too!

[jinxy lilywhite]

I can't believe it took so long for someone to do this! :D

You know what I mean though, no-one elses crowds get near ours and Cork's, and we've been the most successful non-dub clubs in the past 20 years - probably gonna get taken to task by Dundalk fans for that one too!

If you include your annual league cups :p
Ah doh. our double winning year was 1988. still and all 2 premier leagues '91 & '95 & 1 FAI cup 2002 (not bad consiering we where rubbish from 2002 to 2008)
what did derry do 2 league 2 cups. (when did ye win the treble?)

anyway back to the embarrassment of irish football (CCFC). I am a great believer in karma and what CCFC are getting now is through no ones fault but their own. Last time around we where all made to believe that it was all "Arkagas fault". Now ye have nobody to blame but yourselves.
I do wonder what the next cork team will be known as. They've used fordsons, celtic, athlethic, hibs to name a few. the next one should be "langers"

[Umberside]

Do you really think Dundalk are going to give you money for players after Cork screwing us over by offering money to players that we we're about to sign pre season that you now can't afford??
I'm sure we would take any of those four, maybe we could work something out that we take the player off your wage bill and Cork still pay a 1/4 of their wages? ;)
Cork we're given a second chance and continued exactly the way they were pre examinership. They deserve everything they have coming. The only losers in this are the Cork fans.

I meant that those four players are better than four Dundalk have already. Harpal Singh, George O'Callaghan, Darren Mansaram and Thomas Heary are very good players but I just think Gamble & Co. are slightly better. It wasn't meant to offend Dundalk or anything, I was just making a point that turns out to be missing the point:D

[tiktok]

Now ye have nobody to blame but yourselves.
I do wonder what the next cork team will be known as. They've used fordsons, celtic, athlethic, hibs to name a few. the next one should be "langers"

Who's 'ye'?
The city fans posting on this forum? Since the fans don't own the club, there's not a whole load that can be done bar build some sort of war chest and hope it'll be sufficient before it's needed [or that it's never needed], that or dousing ourselves in petrol in the FAI offices, which is what 'ye' would do.

Coughlan in today's echo states that the club is financially sound, which is all any supporter wanted to know, the chairman coming out and addressing supporters concerns. So, I guess the panic is over.

BTW, The amount of dancing on graves on this thread is sickening.

[Tis-smeee]

Coz the cork fans were never guilty of dancing on graves?????????

Get down of that cross and leave someone else have a spin

[bigmac]

Jeez, this thread is confusing. It would be a pity to see LOI football disappear from Cork, but given the number of clubs that have got into huge difficulty over the last few years, it's hard to feel sympathy for clubs that have watched it unfold before them and hurried down the same path. For the fans of those clubs who were worried about the way their clubs were being run, it's a horrible disaster, but there will always be an element of schadenfreude at fans who trumpeted unsustainable success and simultaneously knocked the aspirations and behaviour of the well run clubs (eg UCD).
It's another blow for the league, should it come to pass, from my own point of view, the games against Cork were always highlights of the season. With their huge catchment area, you were usually guaranteed a good travelling support, and it was a nice handy away trip as well. (The games were usually fairly balanced, even in their title winning season there were 3 draws with 5 goals apiece over the 3 games)

[tiktok]

Coz the cork fans were never guilty of dancing on graves?????????

Where did I say that? I'd find it no less sickening if Cork City supporters were doing it.
There's few enough LoI supporters as it is, how people can cheer the possibility that a large chunk of them could be without a club to support in three weeks is beyond me.

Then again, maybe my crown of thorns is piercing into my brains and causing delusions. Rivalry is one thing, but wishing each other out of existence is daft in my opinion.

[Rovers1]

I think it is clear whats going on. The curse continues. Faz kudozovic brings financial troubles to all clubs he goes to:o

Or that he's just too good for the league?... hmmmm

[dcfcsteve]

If you include your annual league cups :p
Ah doh. our double winning year was 1988. still and all 2 premier leagues '91 & '95 & 1 FAI cup 2002 (not bad consiering we where rubbish from 2002 to 2008)
what did derry do 2 league 2 cups. (when did ye win the treble?)



Just the two league titles (including the League's only treble, the year after your feeble double), the 4 FAI Cup wins and 9 league cup wins for us across the same period then. Completely out-trumps Dundalk's measly achievements, considering you's had a serious head start on us too.

The golden rule of slagging off another team's history is to actually know what their history was in the first place.... :D

[SkStu]

Where did I say that? I'd find it no less sickening if Cork City supporters were doing it.
There's few enough LoI supporters as it is, how people can cheer the possibility that a large chunk of them could be without a club to support in three weeks is beyond me.

Then again, maybe my crown of thorns is piercing into my brains and causing delusions. Rivalry is one thing, but wishing each other out of existence is daft in my opinion.

any further developments on this TikTok? Is Coughlan definitely gone yet? He seems like the sort of idiot who would pull this as some sort of "stunt"...

[Longfordian]

Everything is fine apparently neither Coughlan, the FAI or the PFAI are worried at the moment.