Cork City Future. [Archive] - Page 3

Maynard

12/04/2009, 1:26 PM

This is a total sham. I feel VERY sorry for the hardcore fans - but it shows was a DISGRACE the FAI are. Look what happened to Cobh. If Cork don't go EXACTLY the same way then there is no justice. UCD and Finn Harps have been royally shafted on this. And to think the FAI wanted to hold Cork up as a model club and were bending over backwards to keep them in Europe:eek:

THAT makes me sick.

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 1:28 PM

The FAI held up Drogheda and Bohs as model clubs. The FAI are idiots. But we all know that anyway.

Am I right in thinking that it was on here before that FORAS haven't paid a penny over to the club? At least, if the worst comes to the worst (Dodge is correct that it's only a rumour so far), there should be a small kitty to start anew. They'd be better off like that, it seems. Although that'd be in the A League, I assume? Reprieve for Kildare again?

LeixlipRed

12/04/2009, 1:30 PM

Is the jolly fat man with a wad of (invisible) cash still the only model of club ownership considered viable by the FAI? Or will proper business practice win through. Answers on a postcard to Jolly Fat Man Ranch, Abbotstown, Dublin 15.

LeixlipRed

12/04/2009, 1:31 PM

Reprieve for Kildare again?

The Kildare masterplan to get relegated out of existance is failing miserably :( :D

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 1:34 PM

Is the jolly fat man with a wad of (invisible) cash still the only model of club ownership considered viable by the FAI?
Damn right. The FAI almost seem to be pursuing the Champions' League qualification route themselves. Or at least actively encouraging it. Ridiculous.

The recession's giong to really shake the league about a bit, I think.

marty

12/04/2009, 2:09 PM

Cork really needs to be a members run club they have enough fans up there to keep something going,although Im sure not even Cobh fans will take any heart from their demise many here and afar new what Tom C is about hes a pure bluffer and chancer.If 1000 Cork fans paid even a �5 a head per week on top of gate receipts it would see them through for the season.History will always repeat itself and its one Cork club after another folding through the years,UCD are really the only model club the premier division has seen the last few years.

amaccann

12/04/2009, 2:24 PM

Every time you think the league might just get its affairs in order, this kind of thing happens. The club as a business is a joke & no sympathy can be held for the business, but as a football club, a hub of social & cultural development for the community, and as a source of proof that an Irish club can pull in the punters, this is devastating news. I feel sorry for the players & fans, they hardly deserve this.

You sometimes wonder if indeed senior soccer in this country is at all possible :(

ndrog

12/04/2009, 2:58 PM

Maynard

12/04/2009, 3:04 PM

Thats a very sad fact re ucd considering they mean nothing to the community there based in or the collage students that ignore them completely :eek: our best run club is a complete irrelevance .

Sad but true. Wouldn't be the case if the FAI encouraged the proper running of clubs in that mold rather than closing their eyes and fudging the facts every time a big club (bar Shels) have disastrous money problems brought about by greed.

Cosmo

12/04/2009, 3:08 PM

Thats a very sad fact re ucd considering they mean nothing to the community there based in or the collage students that ignore them completely :eek: our best run club is a complete irrelevance .

Regardless, the league needs well run clubs, not clubs overspending and going t!ts up (like weve done on more than 1 occassion)

Monaghan is another example of how to run a club properly - just a shame they cant get the people of the town out in numbers to support them

The league is on its knees and I think everyone is just waiting for the inevitable with bohs too

even if the cork story is bullsh!t, I'd be surprised if they went through the season wihtout more financial trouble - the figures dont add up - as I asked on here a few weeks ago, how the f*** can they outbid other premier division teams on full time players and stay full time when with the country in so much s***, the knock on effects of less sponsorship, decrease in gates,etc - and no serious income from their supporters club

Cici900

12/04/2009, 3:10 PM

Rovers fan

12/04/2009, 3:16 PM

It's an absolute farce that cobh got demoted and cork didn't. Give a crap if the league needs a strong cork, it's simply unfair that cobh were treated differently just because cork are perceived to be important.

RoversHead

12/04/2009, 3:17 PM

I think there is a future for football in cork based on the size of city`s home support but just like everywhere else wages of players must be realistic and reflect the clubs turnover.If you look at the attendance at Bohs v Pats on saturday about 200 pats fans and a far from full jodi then tot up the wage bill on the pitch it paints a ridiculous picture of a league that is in a state of utter denial.Foras are the key to sustainable football in cork not another carpet bagger and I wish them the very best in the tough battles ahead of them.I wonder how long it will be before the bullit has to be bitten in Inchicore.

OneRedArmy

12/04/2009, 3:19 PM

Sad but true. Wouldn't be the case if the FAI encouraged the proper running of clubs in that mold rather than closing their eyes and fudging the facts every time a big club (bar Shels) have disastrous money problems brought about by greed.I don't disagree with the thrust of what you're getting at but I'd be interested to know how you think the FAI could do this?

As an example, when they last actively involved themselves with a club (effectively ending Limerick City as an entity because of its association with Danny Drew) there were howls of protests that the FAi were playing God.

What I really want to know is what has happened between Cork's 2009 budget being approved by the FAI and now.

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 3:36 PM

I think part of the complaints about the Limerick situation was that it was seen to be a personal vendetta against Danny Drew in particular, not about trying to improve the finances of Limerick as a club.

If all this is true, then presumably tax has been going unpaid in recent months. It seems that's a common trend with many clubs getting into trouble - clubs basically using non-payment of tax as a cash flow. How about a sliding scale penalty if clubs miss a monthly P30 payment? It'd be complicated to work (a warning the first time, fine the second, points deduction the third time, reset each February, say), but is a starter idea for ten anyway.

Maynard

12/04/2009, 3:48 PM

I don't disagree with the thrust of what you're getting at but I'd be interested to know how you think the FAI could do this?

As an example, when they last actively involved themselves with a club (effectively ending Limerick City as an entity because of its association with Danny Drew) there were howls of protests that the FAi were playing God.

What I really want to know is what has happened between Cork's 2009 budget being approved by the FAI and now.

Well the cut and thrust of it is; That IF the FAI could make, what was effectively, a snap decision based on Cobh's books at the end of the 2008 season, and see it fit to demote them TWO leagues(EDIT: To the A Championship); How in the name of God can it be justified that Cork City, where the dogs in the street knew about the massive issues regarding staff payment towards the end of that self-same season, were granted a Premier Division license?:confused:

The manner in which the top (br)ass in the FAI stood squarely behind CCFC when it appeared as if they were coming apart at the seams, lauded the way they were "open and honest" about their, ahem, shortcomings in the wage department; and were ADAMANT that Cork would represent Ireland in Europe in 2009 is nothing short of astounding. And as someone who actually cares about the league and wants to see a STRONG LEAGUE, not a "strong X, Y or Z" built on foundations of sand - it makes me sick at their behaviour - and it makes me angry at the affront it is to those who make an honest effort to keep this sham of a league on the life-support that it is currently relying upon.

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 3:49 PM

Well the cut and thrust of it is; That IF the FAI could make, what was effectively, a snap decision based on Cobh's books at the end of the 2008 season, and see it fit to demote them TWO leagues
Cobh were demoted one league; they were relegated the other one all by themselves.

Maynard

12/04/2009, 3:51 PM

Cobh were demoted one league; they were relegated the other one all by themselves.

Thanks for that:rolleyes:

Dunny

12/04/2009, 3:52 PM

What? It's the truth, get over it you were wrong.:rolleyes:

Maynard

12/04/2009, 3:54 PM

Duly edited. Just think that the gist of my point MAY be being slightly overlooked...I'll try and get over it. It may take time.:cool:

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 4:04 PM

Nothing wrong with the gist of your post; I've been saying it for years.

corkboy360

12/04/2009, 4:16 PM

Exactly. We end up out of the league for not being able to get the tax cert with a debt of only half that amount so why is there one rule for one club and one for another? Delaney, Fran Gavin and his cronies have to go now. The league is a shambles. And they are the fault. Cork shouldn't even be in the league and I'd say a few others are the exact same.
For all the cobh people losing the run of themselves its not like we have not paid a bill or we are in debt.YET
We can't get demoted for something that did not happen yet;)

marty

12/04/2009, 4:28 PM

Nobody in Cobh will be losing the run of themselves over this its the proper run clubs that may have questions that need answering from the top,as pointed out we were relegated with our first division team and further relegated for paying them premier wages-nobody to blame but the chairman....Surely the appointment of Paul Doolin was the final factor in any Cork fans evaluation of Tom the plank.

don ramo

12/04/2009, 6:18 PM

For all the cobh people losing the run of themselves its not like we have not paid a bill or we are in debt.YET
We can't get demoted for something that did not happen yet;)

the differnece being ye had a deal with the taxman accepted, we didnt, even though we owed half of what ye owed,

i think it fair enough we were punnished, were getting on with it, we had our first game friday, gonna be a long journey back, its just we were punished when other clubs done the same thing, cork city obviously got a great deal off the taxman and still couldnt hold up to there end,

it did happen already, but cause ye went into examinership it just covered the bad job that was done at the club and that got ye to the start of the season,

personally if its a bad as its said to be, ye would be better off leaving the club die and re-enter as a new entity in next years A league, theres support there, why try to save a sinking ship,

OneRedArmy

12/04/2009, 6:18 PM

For all the cobh people losing the run of themselves its not like we have not paid a bill or we are in debt.YET
We can't get demoted for something that did not happen yet;)
You should be on the Bohs board with financial skills like that.

LeixlipRed

12/04/2009, 6:22 PM

You should be on the Bohs board with financial skills like that.

If he can post on the internet he's too sober to be on the Bohs board :o

PartySaint

12/04/2009, 6:24 PM

before i was even born ramblers had the cup run against sligo in 83, in one game there were over 15,000 fans atteneded a game in flower lodge, no domestic games generate anything like that anymore, there hasnt been a domestic game like that i think in my lifetime, has there? (i was born in 84),

There was 20,000 at the Rovers v Pats game in Rovers first game at the RDS

don ramo

12/04/2009, 6:24 PM

There was 20,000 at the Rovers v Pats game in Rovers first game at the RDS

what year was that

and when was the last game that drew that, or anything near it

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 6:25 PM

1994?

Dodge

12/04/2009, 7:03 PM

1990

And I'm trying to stay out of this dramaqueen fest

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 7:03 PM

Bit of a dramaqueen way of pointing it out, no? :p

thischarmingman

12/04/2009, 7:25 PM

1990

And I'm trying to stay out of this dramaqueen fest

http://www.p45.net/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=12639&d=1182886804

:p

gotaroundbetter

12/04/2009, 8:13 PM

Why are your narcotics being delivered tomorrow ? ****ing Idiot

From what I am hearing it is 350k not 400/500k as being suggested on here and ccfc forum.

He wanted to be a hero for a few months and get his name in the echo!
Thats all I can make of it.
Maybe Arkaga paid him off to get there face out of the picture?

Shut up you sour 1st division fan its not our fault your team is ****.

No interest in Langer baiting, but there were plenty of people on here who were all to quick to condemn Waterford united for going public last year when we hit a financial wall and decided to do something about it, live within our means, get a tax clearance cert and premier licence those pesky little inconveniences of life.
Lots of tisk tisk posts on here with shouldn't be washing your dirty linen in public etc. ring any bells???
We may be a s$�t first division club but we are getting our s$�t together best of luck with the reality check.

pineapple stu

12/04/2009, 8:15 PM

No interest in Langer baiting, but
Think that last post was for you, too.

Philly

12/04/2009, 9:16 PM

Maynard

12/04/2009, 9:39 PM

Shocking news if true. However, why this is all being blamed on the FAI by so many on here is beyond me. I mean, the FAI can only set the guidlines and enforce standards and, from what I can see, they had no reason to believe this was going to happen. Clubs still have to take responsibility for themselves at the end of the day. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be true. If it does, FORAS should put their money into starting up a Cork soccer club immediately in the highest League possible, even if it is the A League.

Are you for real? What do you think the licenceing system is?

I mean CCFC are obviously at fault for being idiots of the highest order, but the way that this insanity comes out only weeks into the season highlights the ineptitude of the FAI's ability to govern. FACT! (;))

Umberside

12/04/2009, 9:41 PM

I simply cannot understand how he would do this? He's a city councillor and will surely have to quit that if he's going to bust Cork City FC. Surely he will put the club up for sale rather than leave it go out of business.:confused::confused::confused::

OneRedArmy

12/04/2009, 10:24 PM

RoversHead

12/04/2009, 10:35 PM

No interest in Langer baiting, but there were plenty of people on here who were all to quick to condemn Waterford united for going public last year when we hit a financial wall and decided to do something about it, live within our means, get a tax clearance cert and premier licence those pesky little inconveniences of life.
Lots of tisk tisk posts on here with shouldn't be washing your dirty linen in public etc. ring any bells???
We may be a s$�t first division club but we are getting our s$�t together best of luck with the reality check.
Correct ,and the sooner the better we have yis back in the topflight .A one city club like yours if tied into the schoolboy and junior set up properly will work even on the tightest budget and will live forever as a result.I hope foras get the chance to do the same in Cork .

gotaroundbetter

12/04/2009, 10:41 PM

Think that last post was for you, too.

OK no ones prefect :D

Still hard not to merit a rye smile given the type of post from the delusional at the time.

John83

12/04/2009, 11:00 PM

its not just the FAI, its the examiner who handed the club to coughlan, we were demoted to A football and arent anywhere near this level, this will surely turn licenceing into a joke,

how long is that tax bill building, cause if its longer that 9 months there no way city have a tax cert to even get a licence, we couldnt get one and we only owe half of that,
The examinership process may have dealt with the tax clearance - Cork would have come out of it with an agreement for repaying it.

I'm kind of loath to comment on a rumour, though it does seem plausible Cork are gone, but I find it surprising that the club were allowed out of examinership without a business plan capable of keeping them afloat for six months. Either they haven't kept to the plan they set out, or the examiner screwed up here. Aportioning blame is hard without seeing a lot of details here.

John83

12/04/2009, 11:09 PM

8 pages and no facts.

Anyone able to post exactly what the situation is?

Did Coughlan:
1) Put money in to appease FAI and then withdraw it
2) Never actually put any money in
3) Something else entirely
He was asked to show he had the money during the examinership. He probably isn't legally obliged to actually put any of it into the club, much like Arkaga before him. The FAI were asked why they didn't put such a requirement in place before. I memory serves, they replied that it would discourage investment.

don ramo

12/04/2009, 11:10 PM

The examinership process may have dealt with the tax clearance - Cork would have come out of it with an agreement for repaying it.

I'm kind of loath to comment on a rumour, though it does seem plausible Cork are gone, but I find it surprising that the club were allowed out of examinership without a business plan capable of keeping them afloat for six months. Either they haven't kept to the plan they set out, or the examiner screwed up here. Aportioning blame is hard without seeing a lot of details here.

ive since heard they came to an agreement with the tax, and made some sort of payment but have since renaged on there comittment, all roumour and speculation, (but there no way you can write off a tax bill, its impossible even with ownership change, you come to an extended payback deal and thats about it )

im most worried with that fact that the club hasnt released a statemnt to counter what is being said, doesnt look good,

from whats being said the club will be liquidated next week,

would be good to have an official statement, but id say coughlan is out foreign for the long weekend, wouldnt want to interrupt hes time off:o

avvenalaf

12/04/2009, 11:51 PM

Can I ask one simple question.? How can it be that a club operating in a city the size of Cork cannot be financially viable?
(I saw Albert Rovers and Evergreen United play and God knows how many manifestations sence then)

shantykelly

12/04/2009, 11:52 PM

mismanagement.

Longfordian

13/04/2009, 12:11 AM

Just a quick point in relation to Cobh, it's all well and good to argue about the way the Revenue dealt with them but they messed things up for themselves by not even submitting audited accounts, as per Padraig Smith on the blog. If it had just been a tax clearance cert that was outstanding I think they'd have got a First Division licence though strictly speaking they shouldn't have.

osarusan

13/04/2009, 12:12 AM

Can I ask one simple question.? How can it be that a club operating in a city the size of Cork cannot be financially viable?

Every club can be financially viable. A club in Cork can be financially viable, they just wouldn't be as good a club as Cork are now. The problem is that if a club is living within its means but is being surpassed by other clubs (some of whom are not living within their means) it is pretty tempting to choose to spend extra money (that the club doesn't have) hoping they'll strike gold and get all the money back later.

And fans, members of the board, anybody involved, are often too pleased with the resulting short-term success to bother asking whether the club can really afford all that spending or not.

Dodge

13/04/2009, 12:16 AM

Every club can be financially viable. A club in Cork can be financially viable, they just wouldn't be as good a club as Cork are now. The problem is that if a club is living within its means but is being surpassed by other clubs (some of whom are not living within their means) it is pretty tempting to choose to spend extra money (that the club doesn't have) hoping they'll strike gold and get all the money back later.

Its not even that IMO

Its just that some people think that clubs here are bigger than they actually are. They belive that there's vast amounts of fans out there willing to spend money to watch games if the right amount of success is there.

Bohs and Cork (and loads before them) are built on the idea that more fans (and money) would come further into the "project" (for want of a better word) if their teams are very sccessful

Its not something I agree with. There's a limited enough market for all clubs IMO

osarusan

13/04/2009, 12:24 AM

Its not even that IMO

Its just that some people think that clubs here are bigger than they actually are. They belive that there's vast amounts of fans out there willing to spend money to watch games if the right amount of success is there.

Bohs and Cork (and loads before them) are built on the idea that more fans (and money) would come further into the "project" (for want of a better word) if their teams are very sccessful

Its not something I agree with. There's a limited enough market for all clubs IMO
This is part of what I meant when I said

they hope they'll strike gold and get all the money back later.
I totally agree with you.