Budget: April 2009

[NeilMcD]

The idea of solidarity is not something that sits with our culture in my opinion. Unfortunately we have an unhealthy respect for the state and its laws Some of this is justified and some of it is a legacy of being a post colonial society. However we have never really had a strong solidarity movement in this country. Putting the benefits of the state before personal benefits is not a concept that sits well within this country for some reason. I have a personal theory that a combination of post coloniasm and a catholic society has caused this to happen and corruption is also a trait of these sort of countries.

Northern European countries dont seem to have this issue. People see the benefits in Germany and Scandanavia of buying their bus ticket.

[Macy]

I see the "social partners" (SIPTU, ICTU etc...) were claiming at the weekend that they would strike unless the government agreed to their demands on economic discussions.
A "prolonged industrial campaign" was what O'Connor used - it doesn't necessarily mean strikes.


How did we get to a situation where unelected lobby groups threaten the government to accept their demands. Cowan should eject them from talks for such threats.
Unelected? All the heads of the unions are elected. One member one vote. You could always organise, and then be represented at the table.


I'm more convinced than ever that the unions are acting in a short-termist manner (primarily to maintain their own strength rather than necessarily act in the best interests of their members).
It was the Unions that were insisting on a long term plan from the very start of the Governments & IBECs chickens coming home to roost at the start of the banking debacle, looking for a swedish style social solidarity model to be introduced. That model was hardly painless for workers.

Whats the business communities & Government solution? Cut wages and reduce terms and conditions, and effectively down skill the workforce to try and compete purely on wages. That's the totally unsustainable, since we'll never be able to compete on wages, short term view that will have the country fooked for generations...

[pete]

I believe the "social partnership model" if finished but if it is to continue there is a big difference between consultation with the government & demanding to have their policies implemented by the elected government.

I am guess IBEC have thousands of members but I would be surprised if they had any say in the their policies. They are just as bad as the Unions & look like they are just run for the benfit of the leaders.

The whole process is what they call lobbying in Washington.

[dahamsta]

For once I agree with you on a CA topic pete, I think social partnership is on it's last legs. The only thing that could possibly right it is a change of government, and I'd be lax to say that's guaranteed. Unfortunately. The Irish are a fickle lot.

And a bit thick when it comes to politics...

[Macy]

Now is exactly the time for social partnership, the problem is that this is the first time it's been really applicable this century, and a lack of committment from Government and Employers for genuine social partnership and social change. However, I would agree what is needed is a general election where whoever wins would have a mandate to govern in these conditions.

Pete, I've no idea how the employers body operates (well under 10k company bosses I'd imagine), but the union side represents over 830,000 members. Union leaders are directly elected - if members don't feel represented, they can vote them out.

[OneRedArmy]

"genuine social partnership and social change"... It goes back to what I said about a shared vision.

Employers bodies and unions exist to maximize the benefit to their members. I struggle see how this isn't an inherent unresolvable conflict?

[mypost]

The only thing that could possibly right it is a change of government, and I'd be lax to say that's guaranteed. Unfortunately. The Irish are a fickle lot.

And a bit thick when it comes to politics...

Obviously, the Euro elections will be a protest vote against FF, but so was the last one, and they still got reelected 2 years ago, on the myth that they could manage the economy. They could manage only a boom.

The fear I have is that if FG/Labour win it, and start to clean up FF's mess without visible improvement on the ground, they'll be given 12 months before voters want FF back in. :rolleyes:

[dahamsta]

The cycle is longer than that, but yes, that's what'll happen. And unfortunately it looks like we're stuck with weetabix-head, unless he screws up in a big way in the interim. Gilmore'd make a far better Taoiseach in these times. I don't like him, but he'd run rings around Kenny.

[Macy]

Employers bodies and unions exist to maximize the benefit to their members. I struggle see how this isn't an inherent unresolvable conflict?
Because ultimately union members need jobs and ibec members need customers with an ability to spend? It has worked before, in this country, never mind in places like Sweden.

[mypost]

UK Budget at a glance

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8011882.stm

From the outside looking in, it seems to be a policy of stimulation rather than taxation, with a limited amount of tax hikes.

[Newryrep]

UK Budget at a glance

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8011882.stm

From the outside looking in, it seems to be a policy of stimulation rather than taxation, with a limited amount of tax hikes.

I thought it was a budget of do SFA hope things improve till the election next year then have a real hair shirt budget then. - effectively burying their heads in the sand . Labour are screwed but Cameron is such a lightweight they might just pull it off

[OneRedArmy]

I thought it was a budget of do SFA hope things improve till the election next year then have a real hair shirt budget then. - effectively burying their heads in the sand . Labour are screwed but Cameron is such a lightweight they might just pull it off

Exactly, they are deferring the pain, which is a purely political move. It won't save Labour, I think all they can hope for is that when the Tories come to power and have to raise taxes immediately the electorate somehow forget who caused the problems.

The Brits are probably in about as bad shape as we are tbh.