Lionel Messi

[Pike B]

Best player in the World.
No question.

He can become as great as Diego, and will surely lead Argentina to a World Cup final.

Won't he??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3237728959_e8cfe3f502.jpg

[DmanDmythDledge]

He is going to be one of the all time greats alongside Pele, Maradona, Zidane etc. Best player in the world by a distance.

[Mr Maroon]

He is going to be one of the all time greats alongside Pele, Maradona, Zidane etc. Best player in the world by a distance.

Definitely.

Hard to believe he's still only 21 aswell!

[pete]

To use a few cliches - a joy to watch, you would pay in to see him alone.

Saw a few minutes of Argentina at the weekend & he was just playing with the ball. Veron came on as sub & home fans were booing him (probably some local club rivalry) & Messi played a few one-twos so quickly the boo-boys could not keep up.

tEQzgPCUQUg

That goal - the control when he beats the 3 defenders at the edge of the box is crazy.

hokq-7olthE

[Mr Maroon]

Veron came on as sub & home fans were booing him (probably some local club rivalry) & Messi played a few one-twos so quickly the boo-boys could not keep up.


Nope.

A rumor (never confirmed) that Verón had failed an internal doping control, and allegations of insufficient effort, hampered his relationship with the media and fans. He was called again to participate in the 2002 World Cup in Korea / Japan, where some saw Verón as the team's key player, and made him personally responsible for Argentina's dismal performance, which included a loss to England and elimination in the groups phase.

[bennocelt]

I love Messi
and to think in the last WC (albeit very young) he was criminally underused

[Closed Account 2]

The best player in the world by some distance, it's utter folly to even put the likes of that petulant fat charlatan Rooney in the same league as Messi...

[Pike B]

I love Messi
and to think in the last WC (albeit very young) he was criminally underused
I could have beaten Pekerman to death in that game against the Germans. With Messi on Argentina would have won that game. No doubt about it.

[John83]

The best player in the world by some distance, it's utter folly to even put the likes of that petulant fat charlatan Rooney in the same league as Messi...
I don't think anyone does. Rooney was clearly a very gifted teenager, but he seems to have stalled at a level where he's merely one of England's better players rather than a true world beater. Even in England, most people recognise that Rooney isn't the best player at his club, much less in the world.

Messi, on the other hand, is widely acknowledged to be the real deal - a contender for the best player on earth. Very interesting to see how he'll develop further - will he maintain his form for a decade or more, or will a couple of seasons' success take the edge off, as it did for Barcelona's last South American superstar?

[irishultra]

messi is more than a footballer he is a true legend andd i believe the best ever.....far superior to 'i look good in the big games' zidane(how many leagues did juve and real win with him?) messi is not arrogant or obsessed about his own self worth ala zlatan or c ronaldo...he doesnt have to hype himself because simply he IS the best there was, the best there is and the best that ever will be. wheen the question is posed who is the best player in the world it is necessary to begin with 'well except for messi.....(ronaldo) (ribery) etc.

[John83]

...far superior to 'i look good in the big games' zidane(how many leagues did juve and real win with him?)...
FFS, it's not like it's hard to find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane#Honors

2 Serie A titles and two Champions Leagues with Juve, one league title and another Champions League with Madrid. Throw in winning a World Cup and European Cup with France and the guy's record really speaks for itself.

Messi has a long way to go to match his achievements. He looks like he has the talent to do so, but it's not the same thing.

[Mr Maroon]

FFS, it's not like it's hard to find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane#Honors

2 Serie A titles and two Champions Leagues with Juve, one league title and another Champions League with Madrid. Throw in winning a World Cup and European Cup with France and the guy's record really speaks for itself.

Messi has a long way to go to match his achievements. He looks like he has the talent to do so, but it's not the same thing.
He didn't win the Champions League with Juve. Wikipedia is wrong :eek:.

[John83]

He didn't win the Champions League with Juve. Wikipedia is wrong :eek:.
It happens. I think he got to a couple of finals with them anyway - they were a real force in Europe in the late 90s.

[gaiscíoch]

far superior to 'i look good in the big games' zidane(how many leagues did juve and real win with him?) .

Forgive my ignorance but I tought great players played well in the big games and that Ronaldo didn't, he only played well against "small clubs" and that's the reason Ronaldo is not great.



messi is not arrogant or obsessed about his own self worth ala zlatan or c ronaldo....

I believe there has been more than a few issues with Messi and a few of his former team mates Eto'o and Ronaldinho and Deco?


he doesnt have to hype himself because simply he IS the best there was, the best there is and the best that ever will be. wheen the question is posed who is the best player in the world it is necessary to begin with 'well except for messi.....(ronaldo) (ribery) etc.

Messi is the best player in the world at the moment but it's a very limited pool at the moment. There aren't so many Galacticos as there was nor is there any genuinely world class footballers about.

[gustavo]

I believe there has been more than a few issues with Messi and a few of his former team mates Eto'o and Ronaldinho and Deco?


.

From all I've read about Messi I'd be very , very surprised if there were any issues with him

[shakermaker1982]

got to see him play against Levante last season in the Nou Camp and he was brilliant (so were Barca that day but he's the best player I've ever seen in the flesh). Entered the ground early so I could see the warm ups and soak in the atmosphere and him and Ronaldinho messing around with the football doing tricks was worth the admission fee alone.

Don't the Barca players call him the 'baby'? He's like a baby brother to them from the accounts I've read. I'd be very surprised if he has fallen out with Ronaldinho.

[Mr Maroon]

I believe there has been more than a few issues with Messi and a few of his former team mates Eto'o and Ronaldinho and Deco?


I highly doubt there were problems between Messi and Ronaldinho.

[OwlsFan]

Best player in the World.
No question.

He can become as great as Diego, and will surely lead Argentina to a World Cup final.

The Daily Telegraph agrees with you :)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/chelsea/5231676/Lionel-Messi-can-achieve-more-at-Barcelona-than-Diego-Maradona.html

[old git]

Forgive my ignorance but I tought great players played well in the big games and that Ronaldo didn't, he only played well against "small clubs" and that's the reason Ronaldo is not great.




I believe there has been more than a few issues with Messi and a few of his former team mates Eto'o and Ronaldinho and Deco?



Messi is the best player in the world at the moment but it's a very limited pool at the moment. There aren't so many Galacticos as there was nor is there any genuinely world class footballers about.

taught great players played well in big games.. well big game tonight and the boy wonder messi looked very poor :(

[Emmet7]

I agree...I said in a previous thread a few weeks ago that against top English opposition, Messi is usually relatively quiet and has never scored against them.

This I think prevents him from being a great player in the mold of Maradona, Drogba, Torres, etc.

Drogba has a proven record against Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, as well as Barcelona and top European teams. Torres also. Maradona brought a poor Napoli team to the Italian League and an average Argentinian side to win the world cup. In fact internationally and at club level post Barcelona, Maradona always played for poor or average teams, yet did it against the best in Italy and internationally against Brazil, Germany, England, etc.

Messi is good, no question, but you aren't great until you prove it against the top sides in the world, not Levente, Getafe, etc who I assume are the equivalent of West Brom.

I'm still to be convinced.

[Mr Maroon]

I agree...I said in a previous thread a few weeks ago that against top English opposition, Messi is usually relatively quiet and has never scored against them.

This I think prevents him from being a great player in the mold of Maradona, Drogba, Torres, etc.

Drogba has a proven record against Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, as well as Barcelona and top European teams. Torres also. Maradona brought a poor Napoli team to the Italian League and an average Argentinian side to win the world cup. In fact internationally and at club level post Barcelona, Maradona always played for poor or average teams, yet did it against the best in Italy and internationally against Brazil, Germany, England, etc.

Messi is good, no question, but you aren't great until you prove it against the top sides in the world, not Levente, etc. who I assume are the equivalent of West Brom, etc.

I'm still to be convinced.

He hasn't proved himself against the top sides YET but he is only 21! He surely will, given all the talent he has.

[gustavo]

taught great players played well in big games.. well big game tonight and the boy wonder messi looked very poor :(

You're right , He's rubbish

[jumping jac]

Did he just mention Drogba in the same sentence as Maradona???

[DmanDmythDledge]

I agree...I said in a previous thread a few weeks ago that against top English opposition, Messi is usually relatively quiet and has never scored against them.

This I think prevents him from being a great player in the mold of Maradona, Drogba, Torres, etc.

Drogba has a proven record against Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, as well as Barcelona and top European teams. Torres also. Maradona brought a poor Napoli team to the Italian League and an average Argentinian side to win the world cup. In fact internationally and at club level post Barcelona, Maradona always played for poor or average teams, yet did it against the best in Italy and internationally against Brazil, Germany, England, etc.

Messi is good, no question, but you aren't great until you prove it against the top sides in the world, not Levente, Getafe, etc who I assume are the equivalent of West Brom.

I'm still to be convinced.
You obviously missed the hat trick he got against Real Madrid. You are only using three games to judge him- hardly a fair judgement to make. He has done it all throughout the CL to date (top scorer ffs), done in La Liga against the best they have to offer and for Argentina too. I hate this ******** of players not doing it against the best teams- anyone can use one game to prove anything.

Messi was never going to thrive in that game tonight. Chelsea packed the centre and when you cut in, no matter how good you are, there's no coping with the amount of bodies around you.

[Emmet7]

You obviously missed the hat trick he got against Real Madrid. You are only using three games to judge him- hardly a fair judgement to make. He has done it all throughout the CL to date (top scorer ffs), done in La Liga against the best they have to offer and for Argentina too. I hate this ******** of players not doing it against the best teams- anyone can use one game to prove anything.

Messi was never going to thrive in that game tonight. Chelsea packed the centre and when you cut in, no matter how good you are, there's no coping with the amount of bodies around you.

This the same Real Madrid that Liverpool thrashed at Anfield and beat well in Madrid?

Spanish defenders particularly in recent years have not been the best in the world. Pique who started tonight for Barcelona was in the reserves at Man U where he still would be if he stayed. And he would be considered one of the better Spanish defenders, imagine the rest.

I'm afraid it wasn't just tonight he failed to make an impact. Last year in both games against Man Utd he failed to make an impact. Tonight he took a free kick and ballooned it over the dead ball line. You cannot say that's because of Chelsea packing the defence.

I just think he can get predictable after a time and it's easy for a good defence and a good manager like Hiddink to read him and counter him. His style of play doesn't seem to suit playing big physical English teams who defend in depth.

The English League is unquestionably the top league, the proof is there are 3 English teams in the semis as there was last year. If Torres, Drogba, Kaka, Lampard, Roy Keane, can do it against top English sides, then you'd expect the 'best player in the world' to do it, at least in one game.

No doubt his age may have something to do with it, and he may yet become a great player, probably will, and he has done it already and has nothing to prove to people like me, but if he wants to prove to the world that he is a legend like Pele, Maradona, Zidanne, Gerd Muller, then he needs to do it against the top teams in the world game, internationally and at club level, otherwise there will be questions about him and Venezuela is not a top world team. I hope he does go on to prove people like me wrong.

As for his age, great players are usually great players by the age of 21, ie Fabragas, Maradonna, Pele, Kaka. I don't think age is really an issue.

[Rovers fan]

I'm afraid it wasn't just tonight he failed to make an impact. Last year in both games against Man Utd he failed to make an impact.

3 games....


Tonight he took a free kick and ballooned it over the dead ball line.

Jeez,he must be useless so:rolleyes:




As for his age, great players are usually great players by the age of 21, ie Fabragas, Maradonna, Pele, Kaka. I don't think age is really an issue.

At the age of 21 kaka was still at sao paulo and had done nothing with the brazil national team.Hardly what one would call "great".

At the age of 21 fabregas couldn't get in the spanish starting 11,again while he is v.good i wouldn't call him great and certainly he isn't better than messi as you have implied.



If you watched spanish football regularly you would know how good he is. How many full games have you seen him play in?

The rte commentators were clowns as well. After about 10 minutes he got on the ball,can't rememberwhat he did with it,but the commentators were saying he hadn't settled in yet. What player had settled in after 10 minutes? Were they expecting him to score a hattrick inside 5 minutes?!

[Roadend]

I knew coming on here thios morning there'd be the few "Messi not all that" type posts. Must have been oblivious to the doubling and tripling up on him all night by Chelsea. Nobody would shine under these circumstances, NOBODY.:rolleyes:

[Rashers Baptisa]

The current Barcelona team is more overrated than the 2001 Pike Rovers team here in Limerick. Fact!

[old git]

You obviously missed the hat trick he got against Real Madrid. You are only using three games to judge him- hardly a fair judgement to make. He has done it all throughout the CL to date (top scorer ffs), done in La Liga against the best they have to offer and for Argentina too. I hate this ******** of players not doing it against the best teams- anyone can use one game to prove anything.

Messi was never going to thrive in that game tonight. Chelsea packed the centre and when you cut in, no matter how good you are, there's no coping with the amount of bodies around you.

maradona / best were able to deal with amount of bodies and a hell of a lot more tackling :D

[jmurphyc]

He's still only 21. Maradona had his greatest moment at the age of 26. 21 is still very, very young to be classed as a true great. The fact that he's already being talked about as the heir to Maradona says a lot. He's a very complete player already and it's frightening to think how good he'll be at his peak. He's three years younger than Ronaldo too.

[DeLorean]

This the same Real Madrid that Liverpool thrashed at Anfield and beat well in Madrid?

Yet you'd probably count Torres goals against them as scoring against a top European side, which they are by the way as there aren't that many around.


Spanish defenders particularly in recent years have not been the best in the world. Pique who started tonight for Barcelona was in the reserves at Man U where he still would be if he stayed. And he would be considered one of the better Spanish defenders, imagine the rest.

So Pique isn't as good as Ferdinand or Vidic so he must be rubbish, you sound like Dunphy. He's only 22 and looked very good at times last night, also made a couple of mistakes.


I'm afraid it wasn't just tonight he failed to make an impact. Last year in both games against Man Utd he failed to make an impact. Tonight he took a free kick and ballooned it over the dead ball line. You cannot say that's because of Chelsea packing the defence.

There's a difference between not having scored against an English team and not playing well against an English team. He was excellent at the Bridge 3 yrs ago, giving them a torrid time down the right an ultimately getting Del Horno sent off in the first half.


The English League is unquestionably the top league, the proof is there are 3 English teams in the semis as there was last year. If Torres, Drogba, Kaka, Lampard, Roy Keane, can do it against top English sides, then you'd expect the 'best player in the world' to do it, at least in one game.

Come on man Torres Drogba Keane and Lampard play(ed) in the English league so their opportunities are (were) slightly less limited.


As for his age, great players are usually great players by the age of 21, ie Fabragas, Maradonna, Pele, Kaka. I don't think age is really an issue.

This was already dealt with by Rovers fan, thankfully.

[jumping jac]

The current Barcelona team is more overrated than the 2001 Pike Rovers team here in Limerick. Fact!
What??

[lionelhutz]

The current Barcelona team is more overrated than the 2001 Pike Rovers team here in Limerick. Fact!

I agree 100%. Or even the Fairview Rangers side of 2005!

[Emmet7]

what I look for in a great player is a game breaker in top top matches.

Barcelona vs Getafe is not a top top match, nor is most of the matches Barcelona play week in week out.

Look at the team Arsenal beat to get to the semis, they were woeful at the Emerites, didn't get near the Arsenal goal.

Spanish soccer is in decline, clearly, apart from Barcelona, there is no other team who would do well in Europe.

I don't think being a game breaker against sides like Getafe contitutes greatness, Getafe I would rank with Blackburn, Stoke, West Brom, Sunderland. Even an average or poor player could look world class against that level of team.

[Roadend]

Thanks Eamon, any more pearls of wisdom for us?

[Emmet7]

Thanks Eamon, any more pearls of wisdom for us?

telling it as I see it...

If I was a manager and someone offered me Messi or Drogba, I'd take Drogba...

[Roadend]

Maybe Utd. will come knocking on your door when Ferguson retires, in fact send them your CV so they know you're interested

[gustavo]

what I look for in a great player is a game breaker in top top matches.

Barcelona vs Getafe is not a top top match, nor is most of the matches Barcelona play week in week out.

Look at the team Arsenal beat to get to the semis, they were woeful at the Emerites, didn't get near the Arsenal goal.

Spanish soccer is in decline, clearly, apart from Barcelona, there is no other team who would do well in Europe.

I don't think being a game breaker against sides like Getafe contitutes greatness, Getafe I would rank with Blackburn, Stoke, West Brom, Sunderland. Even an average or poor player could look world class against that level of team.

"the team" is Villarreal

I don't see how you can say Spanish football is in decline , They are the European Champions and have a team that might just be the European club champions. Messi is the top scorer in this seasons Champions League so clearly having a player that can outshine the rest of his peers in the goalscoring stakes isn't beyond them either. Going on last nights evidence , Chelsea had many average performers , Should they not also be judged by your standards so ? There are not many players that regularly look head and shoulders above the rest when playing against other top teams . That's why they are top teams.

And your assertion that an average or poor player could look world class against those aforemention teams is rubbish , By that reckoning there are only about 10 good players in the world

[Emmet7]

Spanish club football is in decline compared to English club football, apart from Barcelona, so that means Barcelona are meeting weaker teams.

The CL is the only real way you can measure the strength or weakness of domestic leagues, and it usually pretty accurate, Italy has fallen behind, Germany too, France was always not that great, Spain dominated the CL 10 years ago, now only Barca do any good in it.

[gustavo]

Spanish club football is in decline compared to English club football, apart from Barcelona, so that means Barcelona are meeting weaker teams.

The CL is the only real way you can measure the strength or weakness of domestic leagues, and it usually pretty accurate, Italy has fallen behind, Germany too, France was always not that great, Spain dominated the CL 10 years ago, now only Barca do any good in it.

Why does everything have to compared to English football ?

So they went from being the most successful league in Europe to the 2nd , Hardly a marked declince, These things are cyclical anyway .

[jumping jac]

So in your opinion, Messi is average, Drogba world class. Spanish league is in decline and England's mighty Premiership rules???

Can't say I agree with you on any of these save for maybe that England's league is currently strongest.

Can I ask you, have you watched Lionel Messi in the last two months for Argentina or Barcelona? I mean full games?

[pete]

I think the Spanish League is strong than the English League if you compare all teams. English football is obviously the strongest if want to cmpare top 4 teams in each league. Because the same 4 english teams qualify for the CL it makes those teams really strong but also weakens the league as a whole.

[Docboy]

telling it as I see it...

If I was a manager and someone offered me Messi or Drogba, I'd take Drogba...

Would that be the same Drogba that shot straight at Valdez when presented with a cast-iron chance last night then wasted another easier opportunity when it came straight back to him?

Sorry but I don't think Messi would have been so profligate given the same time and space.

[Mr Maroon]

There is absolutely no way Spanish football is in decline! You could argue that it is weaker than English football (debatable) but it is certainly not in decline.

[micls]

If I was a manager and someone offered me Messi or Drogba, I'd take Drogba...

Right....I've figured it out.

Would you mind sticking with the 4-3-3 on Friday Paul, and none of this defensive rubbish...

[Emmet7]

Would that be the same Drogba that shot straight at Valdez when presented with a cast-iron chance last night then wasted another easier opportunity when it came straight back to him?

Sorry but I don't think Messi would have been so profligate given the same time and space.

Yes the same Drogba who scored two decisive goals against Liverpool in the quarters, one goal to beat Man Utd in the FA cup a few years ago, who has scored wonder goals against Barcelona and Liverpool in the past and scored against Arsenal as well as consistantly scoring decisive goals in the CL and domestically. And don't forget Drogba is nearly always up front on his own and being marked by two centre backs. And Messi has done what against these top English teams?

Liverpool thrashed Real Madrid at home and beat them soundly away, this the same Real Madrid team that is cruising though La Liga. Doesn't say much for the standard of La Liga, does it?

As for Inter Milan they have ran away with the title in Italy the last two years, yet have been soundly beaten by Man Utd and Liverpool in the CL and were very poor against both these sides.

I suppose people will be saying Ibrahimavich is a legend next, while Ronaldo, Drogba, Torres, Lampard are poor in comparison.

When Messi scores against English opposition in the CL, then we can call him great. Getafe and levente are not Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal, not in the same league to be honest and if any of the English top sides played those Spanish teams it would be 6 or 7 nil.

I have a feeling a lot of people on this thread learned their soccer from watching tv and not playing the game. Soccer is a game about pitting yourself against others, it's no use being good against useless teams and useless against good teams.

[jumping jac]

Yes the same Drogba who scored two decisive goals against Liverpool in the quarters, one goal to beat Man Utd in the FA cup a few years ago, who has scored wonder goals against Barcelona and Liverpool in the past and scored against Arsenal as well as consistantly scoring decisive goals in the CL and domestically. And don't forget Drogba is nearly always up front on his own and being marked by two centre backs. And Messi has done what against these top English teams?

Liverpool thrashed Real Madrid at home and beat them soundly away, this the same Real Madrid team that is cruising though La Liga. Doesn't say much for the standard of La Liga, does it?

As for Inter Milan they have ran away with the title in Italy the last two years, yet have been soundly beaten by Man Utd and Liverpool in the CL and were very poor against both these sides.

I suppose people will be saying Ibrahimavich is a legend next, while Ronaldo, Drogba, Torres, Lampard are poor in comparison.

When Messi scores against English opposition in the CL, then we can call him great. Getafe and levente are not Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal, not in the same league to be honest and if any of the English top sides played those Spanish teams it would be 6 or 7 nil.

I have a feeling a lot of people on this thread learned their soccer from watching tv and not playing the game. Soccer is a game about pitting yourself against others, it's no use being good against useless teams and useless against good teams.
Once again:Can I ask you, have you watched Lionel Messi in the last two months for Argentina or Barcelona? I mean full games?

[osarusan]

Yes the same Drogba who scored two decisive goals against Liverpool in the quarters, one goal to beat Man Utd in the FA cup a few years ago, who has scored wonder goals against Barcelona and Liverpool in the past and scored against Arsenal as well as consistantly scoring decisive goals in the CL and domestically. And don't forget Drogba is nearly always up front on his own and being marked by two centre backs. And Messi has done what against these top English teams?

You are comparing a 31 year-old striker who plays in England and therefore gets the chance to play regularly against these "top English teams" teams at least twice a year with a 21 year-old winger who plays in a different league and therefore has extremely limited opportunities to play against the same teams, and arguing that the level of achievement from both should be judged without taking these differences into account.

That is a really really poor comparison to try and make.

[Closed Account 2]

...
Spanish soccer is in decline, clearly, apart from Barcelona, there is no other team who would do well in Europe.
...

Atletico did well in Europe this season, they outplayed Liverpool and didn't lose a game in the whole competition. They also had to play 2 of their games behind closed doors, negating a home advantage.


telling it as I see it...

If I was a manager and someone offered me Messi or Drogba, I'd take Drogba...

But they are different players, one is an out and out striker the other is more of a winger. It's like saying "I'd pick Yuri Zhirkov over John Terry"...

[DeLorean]

When Messi scores against English opposition in the CL, then we can call him great.

It doesn't take much to swing it for you. Is John O'Shea great because he has scored against Arsenal twice and Liverpool? You're tough work.