The 2nd place qualifying table

[elroy]

Scotland with the win in the bag now 2-0 up, moves them to ten points, with one game left against the Dutch on home on wed.

For the purposes of the second place playoff, we have 7 points at the moment, so three points tonight would be very helpful in that regard as well. Would almost guarantee us finishing above second place in the scots group for purposes of playoff spots.

[swinfordfc]

Scotland are now up to 10pts in they group so we need to win tonight just to be level with them - ok we be ahead of them on goal difference but still need to win tonight

[swinfordfc]

Ukraine 2 up on Andorra

Soctland 0-0 Macedonia at half time
Scotland are dire.
Scott Brown picked up a yellow and is suspended for the Dutch game on wednesday

Scott Brown can play wed night but McFadden cant :D

[swinfordfc]

Russia are now on 12pts after they win today and Bosnia-Herz are on 9pts but the important one is Scotland on 10pts as they have only one game to play - and its against Holland and they need to win it i think

[SuperDave]

scotland have only one game left.... v netherlands!

but norway could yet make 12pts.... we need to win tonight and v montenegro to be sure of making the playoffs, assuming that is enough to get second, and assuming scotland don't win on wednesday.... though if we win those two, our gd should be good enough if we had the same number of points as scotland

all in all, we gotta win tonight!!! aaaaaargh!

[Stuttgart88]

Soctland 0-0 Macedonia at half time
Scotland are dire.

I only saw second half and although they conceded some good chances to Macedonia I thought Scotland attacked well. McFadden had a super game.

[Eirambler]

A few very good draws for us tonight. Results werent looking good for a while there earlier but they came back to us a bit at the end.

Iceland 1 - 1 Norway

That's Norway gone, if Holland beat Scotland on Wednesday then the second place target will only be 10 points which we already have even after we lose the 6 against Georgia.

Also, the Czechs, Slovaks, Nordies and Poles all drew meaning they dropped points. You wouldn't expect that group to set a high points target either.

So, unless Bulgaria go and beat Italy on Wednesday, we're looking at Playoffs minimum. All we have to do is forget how bad we were tonight...

[elroy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_o f_second-placed_teams

This looks upto date to me, I think it is likely Scotlands group will be the one to miss out, cant see them beaten (even a weakened) Holland at home.

[SkStu]

Isnt Georgias trip to Podgorica on October 10 still of quite some interest to us?

[EastTerracer]

Isnt Georgias trip to Podgorica on October 10 still of quite some interest to us?

Very much so. If Georgia can finish ahead of Montenegro then we will gain 2 points in the standings of 2nd place teams (we'd actually be one of the best 2nd place teams).

[Eirambler]

Isnt Georgias trip to Podgorica on October 10 still of quite some interest to us?

Well, it would be better if Montenegro came last because if its Cyprus or Georgia we drop 6 points. Its likely to be Georgia though.

Anyway, with the way other results have gone it looks like it won't matter. If we finish second we'll almost certainly be in the playoffs. Bulgaria are our biggest threat in that regard now.

[SuperDave]

Well, it would be better if Montenegro came last because if its Cyprus or Georgia we drop 6 points. Its likely to be Georgia though.

Anyway, with the way other results have gone it looks like it won't matter. If we finish second we'll almost certainly be in the playoffs. Bulgaria are our biggest threat in that regard now.

indeed... now, as long as bulgaria don't beat italy, we're fine for second hopefully

[Stuttgart88]

Nothing to do with best second place, but how have tonight's results affected tables. BBC hasn't updated.

Portugal's late equaliser prob not good enough because of Sweden's late winner? (How many times in the past have I wished Ireland could just be as good as SWE and DEN in qualifying.They're my heroes - Ijust love Scandinavia and I've only ever been to Copenhagen airport!).

Norn Iron: Good draw and draw in other game a good result?

[shakermaker1982]

Here you go Stutt's:

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/standings/index.html

Group 1 is far from finished. Portugal have two must win games against Hungary but Sweden must be favourites for 2nd spot now. It's looking like France will finish second after slipping up against Romania. That is one side I wouldn't want to meet in the qualifiers.

Excellent result for Norn Iron. Potential qualifier opponents!

[elroy]

I think Scotland/Norways results on Wed night are of great interest to us, it will set a benchmark of the points we need to guarantee a playoff spot. (their group finishes on wed)

Scotland have 10 points at present, Norway have 7.

Norway have to play macedonia at home so expect them to finish with ten.
Scotland are at home to Holland. Holland are already qualified so will probably field a weakened team. Anything other than a Scotland win would be a good result for us. For the purposes of the playoffs we have a min of ten points, so a loss/draw for the Scots would mean our group is pretty much guaranteed a playoff.

[Crosby87]

Interesting Elroy.........looks like we have to root against the Tartan Army. If you recall after the last game the nutter with the putter said Scotland have no chance....I havent been keeping up but i guess things changed?

[geysir]

Iceland did their bit to scuttle any hope of Norway.
A 1-1 draw with Eidur Gudjonsson lording the game.
Pity Norway can't be a play off opponent, an astonishing negative team,
they could not muster anything better than mere holding on for the draw in the second half.

[eirebhoy]

1 more win will take us ahead of the 2nd placed team in group 3 almost certainly. I want Scotland to qualify so I hope we both win on Wednesday. If we do we're definitely safe (as long as we finish ahead of Bulgaria that is) and Scotland should be.

[Eirambler]

Here is another updated version of the second place table. Its a bit hard to follow but this one includes all the teams that still have a decent chance of finishing second. The group number down the left is probably the most notable thing at this stage. 8 of the bottom nine teams on the list are from Groups 1, 3 and 9 and the other team (Israel) is unlikely to come second in Group 2. So the lowest second place team will almost certainly come from Group 1, 3 or 9.

2nd Place Table September 6th

G TEAM P W D L GF GA GD PTS

7 Serbia---- 5 4 0 1 11 5 +6 13
4 Germany-- 5 4 1 0 10 4 +6 13
4 Russia---- 5 4 0 1 11 3 +8 12
1 Denmark-- 5 3 2 0 8 3 +5 11
8 Italy------ 5 3 2 0 7 3 +4 11
6 Croatia---- 6 3 2 1 10 7 +3 11
6 Ukraine---- 6 3 2 1 9 6 +3 11
7 France---- 6 3 2 1 8 7 +1 11
8 Bulgaria--- 6 2 4 0 10 5 +5 10
2 Latvia----- 6 3 1 2 9 5 +4 10
2 Switzerland 5 3 1 1 9 6 +3 10
2 Greece---- 6 3 1 2 9 6 +3 10
3 Slovakia--- 5 3 1 1 9 7 +2 10
8 Ireland---- 6 2 4 0 6 4 +2 10
9 Scotland-- 7 3 1 3 6 10 -4 10
5 Bosnia----- 5 3 0 2 14 6 +8 9
1 Sweden--- 6 2 3 1 4 3 +1 9
5 Turkey---- 6 2 2 2 8 7 +1 8
3 Slovenia--- 6 2 2 2 5 4 +1 8
3 N. Ireland-- 6 2 2 2 6 7 -1 8
9 Norway---- 7 1 4 2 7 6 +1 7
1 Hungary--- 5 2 1 2 5 4 +1 7
1 Portugal--- 6 1 4 1 5 5 0 7
9 Macedonia- 7 2 1 4 4 9 -5 7
2 Israel------ 6 1 3 2 8 8 0 6
3 Czech------ 6 1 3 2 5 6 -1 6
3 Poland----- 5 1 2 2 7 8 -1 5

[Crosby87]

So pretty much every country in Europe have a chance to finish second? Good work, Gambler!;)

[eirebhoy]

Those tables are useless to me. Just go through the groups and fixtures. The 2nd placed teams in group 3 won't finish on more than 18 imo.

[Eirambler]

So pretty much every country in Europe have a chance to finish second? Good work, Gambler!;)

Yep, pretty much! :)

[Deckydee]

This link does it for me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification

[geysir]

1 more win will take us ahead of the 2nd placed team in group 3 almost certainly. I want Scotland to qualify so I hope we both win on Wednesday. If we do we're definitely safe (as long as we finish ahead of Bulgaria that is) and Scotland should be.

Scotlands last game is on Wed but of course we don't play 'til next month

If we get 13 points
have Scotland a chance with a max of 13 points compared to the other groups?

[stiffler]

So currently the 9 2nd place teams are as follows:

Russia
Croatia
France
Greece
Ireland
Scotland
Bosnia & H.
the north
Hungary


Russia, Croatia and France would cause some serious problems, other than that I would hope we would have a 50/50 chance of winning the play off against the remaining teams.

Will Modric be back for Croatia for the play offs? he would be a huge loss to them if so.

[shakermaker1982]

Scotland have a -4 GD so if other teams finish on 13 (after you take away results against bottom placed team) then Scotland will miss out IMO.

[shakermaker1982]

If France, Germany/Russia, Croatia and Greece all finish second then I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA have a seeded draw based on FIFA rankings. We'd be then playing one of the big boys over two legs.

[stojkovic]

If France, Germany/Russia, Croatia and Greece all finish second then I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA have a seeded draw based on FIFA rankings. We'd be then playing one of the big boys over two legs.

Look at the draw for the playoffs for WC06.

Very suspicious indeed.

[eirebhoy]

Scotlands last game is on Wed but of course we don't play 'til next month

Sorry, late one last night. :)


If we get 13 points
have Scotland a chance with a max of 13 points compared to the other groups?
I don't think the 2nd placed team in N.Ireland's group will be on more than 18 (12 if you take away the 6). That's just my prediction and I haven't even looked at other groups since yesterday afternoon.

[shakermaker1982]

Look at the draw for the playoffs for WC06.

Very suspicious indeed.

I'm scared. I've kept checking the FIFA website these last 18 months to see if they would ever beef up the details on the draw for those teams that finish second but nothing has changed. It should be an open draw. If France have to play Croatia/Germany/Russia then so be it!

[shakermaker1982]

I don't think the 2nd placed team in N.Ireland's group will be on more than 18 (12 if you take away the 6). That's just my prediction and I haven't even looked at other groups since yesterday afternoon.

Will Scotland beat Holland? Even a reserve Dutch side should have more than enough class to ensure they get a point. I know they have nothing riding on it but the squad players will be playing for a plane ticket to South Africa!.

[eirebhoy]

It's one of those nights. Individual ability goes out the window. If it's a draw with 10 minutes to go it'll be all Scotland imo.

[citizenerased]

scotland have no chance of beating holland, played some good football yesterday though

[seanfhear]

Here is another updated version of the second place table. Its a bit hard to follow but this one includes all the teams that still have a decent chance of finishing second. The group number down the left is probably the most notable thing at this stage. 8 of the bottom nine teams on the list are from Groups 1, 3 and 9 and the other team (Israel) is unlikely to come second in Group 2. So the lowest second place team will almost certainly come from Group 1, 3 or 9.

2nd Place Table September 6th

G TEAM P W D L GF GA GD PTS

7 Serbia---- 5 4 0 1 11 5 +6 13
4 Germany-- 5 4 1 0 10 4 +6 13
4 Russia---- 5 4 0 1 11 3 +8 12
1 Denmark-- 5 3 2 0 8 3 +5 11
8 Italy------ 5 3 2 0 7 3 +4 11
6 Croatia---- 6 3 2 1 10 7 +3 11
6 Ukraine---- 6 3 2 1 9 6 +3 11
7 France---- 6 3 2 1 8 7 +1 11
8 Bulgaria--- 6 2 4 0 10 5 +5 10
2 Latvia----- 6 3 1 2 9 5 +4 10
2 Switzerland 5 3 1 1 9 6 +3 10
2 Greece---- 6 3 1 2 9 6 +3 10
3 Slovakia--- 5 3 1 1 9 7 +2 10
8 Ireland---- 6 2 4 0 6 4 +2 10
9 Scotland-- 7 3 1 3 6 10 -4 10
5 Bosnia----- 5 3 0 2 14 6 +8 9
1 Sweden--- 6 2 3 1 4 3 +1 9
5 Turkey---- 6 2 2 2 8 7 +1 8
3 Slovenia--- 6 2 2 2 5 4 +1 8
3 N. Ireland-- 6 2 2 2 6 7 -1 8
9 Norway---- 7 1 4 2 7 6 +1 7
1 Hungary--- 5 2 1 2 5 4 +1 7
1 Portugal--- 6 1 4 1 5 5 0 7
9 Macedonia- 7 2 1 4 4 9 -5 7
2 Israel------ 6 1 3 2 8 8 0 6
3 Czech------ 6 1 3 2 5 6 -1 6
3 Poland----- 5 1 2 2 7 8 -1 5

And they say that football is for the unsophisticated man/woman.

[tricky_colour]

I do beleive Ireland could top the group, with Bulgaria second and Italy third and so fail to qualify!:ball:

[Hibernian]

I think after last nights result if we get at worst 3 points in either last two games we be safe to go through as top 8 second seed.

But Im more hopeful we can top this group. We need little bit luck from Italy to drop points lets hope they will on Wednesday night now

[geysir]

France are favourites for a 2nd place place spot and struggling with a bout of Saipanitis.

Dominech - agitation dans le camp (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/07/france-thierry-henry-raymond-domenech)

Serbia 4 points clear, play them at home tonight and are generously rated at 2/1 to win.

[Razors left peg]

Theres almost a very very small part of me that hopes we finish 2nd and get Northern Ireland in the playoffs.... just so we can knock them out:)

[Duggie]

there isnt an easy 2nd place game that we could get in the qualifiers really. bloody lottery, we can still top our group with a few favourable results.

[shep]

Theres almost a very very small part of me that hopes we finish 2nd and get Northern Ireland in the playoffs.... just so we can knock them out:)

A real dream scenario....but i think draw will be rigged so that so called bigger nations get drawn with "weaker ones" like ourselves and Norn Irn

[geysir]

Five teams are already red hot favoured for a play off place.
Sweden, Greece, France, Ireland and Bosnia.

Croatia could do with a point tonight, otherwise - Ukraine

Russia /Germany, tonight Russia must win to avoid play off

Czech Rep, 3 home games including SM, if they beat Poland at home, derr dare.

[Gather round]

Czech Rep, 3 home games including SM, if they beat Poland at home, derr dare

I'd have them slight favorites to finish second with 18 effectively 12 points. But they've been below par so far, only one win in six sgnificant games including a home defeat.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Theres almost a very very small part of me that hopes we finish 2nd and get Northern Ireland in the playoffs.... just so we can knock them out:)

I don't fancy us in a play off against the north. I just don't. Dunno if they'd even win a leg but I could easily envisage a scoreless draw in Belfast and a 1-1 in Dublin.

No thanks. I'd rather avoid them ...and that's without much consideration to the utter, utter langballs from both sides that'd seep through the floor.

[Gather round]

I don't fancy us in a play off against the north. I just don't. Dunno if they'd even win a leg but I could easily envisage a scoreless draw in Belfast and a 1-1 in Dublin.

No thanks. I'd rather avoid them ...and that's without much consideration to the utter, utter langballs from both sides that'd seep through the floor.

Agreed on yr second point, LR. Though it pains me of course.

You're capable of beating any of the likely play off candidates, relax.

[Duggie]

play off are a lottery. i wouldnt like the north for the crowd / atmosphere / tension it would create. take away from the whole occasion. on a footballing side we would win i think. couldnt see them coming to croker and getting anything, equally i couldnt not see us score a few against them.

[geysir]

I'd have them slight favorites to finish second with 18 effectively 12 points. But they've been below par so far, only one win in six sgnificant games including a home defeat.
They are slight favourites to finish second.
Reason for that is that it's in their own hands.
3 home games
On reports of recent form, they played well against Slovakia away.
Poland looked like powder puff against NI

[Gather round]

They are slight favourites to finish second.
Reason for that is that it's in their own hands.
3 home games
On reports of recent form, they played well against Slovakia away.
Poland looked like powder puff against NI

We're agreed they're slight favorite. It's not "in their own hands"- their 18 points would only in itself eliminate NI and Poland (both 17 maximum), but not Slovenia who can still make 20 by beating Poland, Slovakia and SMR.


play off are a lottery. i wouldnt like the north for the crowd / atmosphere / tension it would create. take away from the whole occasion. on a footballing side we would win i think. couldnt see them coming to croker and getting anything, equally i couldnt not see us score a few against them

They're a lottery, but who knows? We scored three against Poland, you none against Montenegro.

[DeLorean]

I'd have them slight favorites to finish second with 18 effectively 12 points

Not at all, shur they're still 0-0 with San Marino after 15mins!! Stan was right about em being a handful:D

[elroy]

From a purely playoff spot perspective, here is what we are hoping for tonight:

Group1:
Hungary/Portugal draw
Malta draw/beat Sweden

Group2:
Greece draw/lose to Moldova
Latvia/Swiss draw or Swiss win

Group3:
Slovakia/NI draw
Slovenia/Poland draw

Group4:
Russia lose to Wales

Group5:
Bosnia/Turkey draw or Turkey win (huge game in this group)

Group6:
Croatia lose/draw with England
Ukraine lose/draw with Belarus

Group7:
France lose to Serbia

Group9:
Scots lose to Holland

[gilberto_eire]

So is this settled after tonight?..... All games appear to be over in group 9 and the total is 10 points, we also have a better goal difference(unless we lose our last two)