Quality players in the international wilderness.

[the doc]

One thing that struck me about last night (and most other people too) was the horrible bench we had. When we had Hunt playing we had literally nobody who could make any sort of impact and most our bench was composed of fringe players for their club.
How many of the experienced options below, each playing well for their club should be considered? I think each of them offer something different and worthwhile, surely worthy of a squad place. Our strength in depth in the current squad really has me worried if we get hit with a few injuries.

- Andy Reid
- Lee Carsley
- Rory Delap
- Clinton Morrison
- Daryl Murphy
- Stephen Carr

Replace what we had on the bench last night with those guys and I think we'd have serious options to change a game. Right now we're too predictable.

Even more frightening is the fact that after the bench, we have the likes of Alex Bruce waiting in the squad! :eek:

Trapp has recommended him to Italian clubs, don't you know! :D

[Jicked]

Even more frightening is the fact that after the bench, we have the likes of Alex Bruce waiting in the squad! :eek:

Trapp has recommended him to Italian clubs, don't you know! :D

Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Anyway,

- Andy Reid
Yes, would be a good option to spring from the bench. Not an option to start for me though.

- Lee Carsley
Carsley was a part of Irish midfield for years that could never get a grip on a game, don't see why that would have changed now the legs are even older. Wouldn't offer anything from the bench.

- Rory Delap
Absolutely not. Yes he can take a long throw in, but if it wasnt for that throw in no-one would even consider him.

- Clinton Morrison
Nine goals in the Championship this season, he's hardly pulling up trees. Can't really see him troubling international defences. Neil Warnock released him from Palace not deeming him good enough.

- Daryl Murphy
I quite like Murphy, but don't really think he's in a different class to someone like Keogh or Noel Hunt. I'd have him in the squad, but lets face it he's not going to turn a game for you.

- Stephen Carr
No bloody way.

[weldoninhio]

Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Anyway,

- Andy Reid
Yes, would be a good option to spring from the bench. Not an option to start for me though.

- Lee Carsley
Carsley was a part of Irish midfield for years that could never get a grip on a game, don't see why that would have changed now the legs are even older. Wouldn't offer anything from the bench.

- Rory Delap
Absolutely not. Yes he can take a long throw in, but if it wasnt for that throw in no-one would even consider him.

- Clinton Morrison
Nine goals in the Championship this season, he's hardly pulling up trees. Can't really see him troubling international defences. Neil Warnock released him from Palace not deeming him good enough.

- Daryl Murphy
I quite like Murphy, but don't really think he's in a different class to someone like Keogh or Noel Hunt. I'd have him in the squad, but lets face it he's not going to turn a game for you.

- Stephen Carr
No bloody way.

Andy Reid - A lot better than what we have at the moment

Lee Carsley - A lot better than what we have at the moment

Rory Delap - Not a great option

Clinton Morrison - Same goals to game ratio as Kevin Doyle, works hard, holds up the play well, deserves at least a chance

Daryl Murphy - Not seen enough of him playing to give an educated opinion

Stephen Carr - Has done very well for Birmingham in the past 3 games

[sligofan4ever]

What about Keith Fahey ?

surely he deserves a chance.

[Razors left peg]

Andy Reid should be starting in midfield ahead of Whelan. He does more work defensively and gives a better option going forward. I thought Whelan did well in his first couple of games alongside Steven Reid but since then the has been beyond awful.
Anyone that doesnt think Andy Reid is capable of doing a defensive job should re watch the Germany game in Croker in the last campaign.Not only that, with Reid in middle of the park we would hold better possesion of the ball and not be worried about having to put as many tackles in.The best form of defense in football is holding on to the ball yourself and not letting the opposition have it.Whelan gives us absolutley nothing when we have possesion of the ball.And I wouldnt mind if he was a good reader of the game defensively and was able to break up play, but everything goes past him.He is a nothing player and we are basically playing with one in midfield when he plays. Andy Reid is definately a better option in there until Steven Reid gets fit again

[mark12345]

A little lengthy lads, but here goes.


Let’s talk scientific equations here!

When any machine, system or body part is not functioning properly it is usually taken to a laboratory where scientists make microscopic determinations and come up with answers to problems.

Problem: Style of play, or lack thereof.

For time immemorial Irish teams which have enjoyed leads against international opposition of any status or description, surrender, without fail, all sense of attacking responsibility.

Even the most challenged of opponents are invited to try their luck in the Irish third, for however long it takes them to score, the results of which, most recently, were Cyprus almost snatching what would have been a deserved equalizer at Croke Park and Bulgaria doing so on Saturday last. The sense among many Irish fans is that the Boys in Green would never bother attacking their opponents to grab an insurance goal, if Shay Given’s net remained unbreached.

There is a catalogue of similar stories from recent years, the more dramatic of which occurred in Tel Aviv, Zagreb and Skopje.

The reasons for this style of play are very obvious. The Boys in Green don’t have the wherewithal to move the ball through midfield and, by extension, to keep meaningful possession for any length of time. In fact almost all of our attacking opportunities come via the wings. Aiden McGeady, Stephen Hunt, Damien Duff and Kevin Kilbane are the principals in this area at present, but it doesn’t take much brain capacity to remember Tony Galvin, Kevin O’Callaghan and Steve Heighway operating in similar circumstances in previous lives.

In fact Gary Kelly epitomizes our dilemma. The Leeds full-back earned all his rave reviews for his prowess on the wing. Gary’s infield interaction with his midfield colleagues, as was also the case with Stephen Carr and Jeff Kenna, was not worth writing about. This is in contrast to other football cultures (like Bulgaria for instance) where the full-backs offer support in the midfield and look to spring strikers, or advanced midfielders with probing passes. In such cases the beachhead is established around the halfway line, as it was at Croke Park on Saturday evening, with the opposition being forced to defend in numbers.

Giovanni Trapattoni, smart man that he is, has obviously recognized the dearth of ability among his current team. It’s all very fine sitting back in your own half and, in classic Italian style, springing a counter attack which sees one or two green shirts queuing up to score – but in reality the current Irish team doesn’t have the ball handling skills to execute such moves.

To watch lowly El Salvador, ranked 126th in the world, perform such tasks with consummate ease against the USA on Saturday, was to put Ireland’s plight into perspective. We don’t produce the coaches in Ireland who demand such technical ability of our youngsters, most probably because they’ve never been taught it themselves. Our answer is to sweep the problem under the rug and hope it will go away, as we’ve been doing since the 1960’s.

Should Trap be blamed? For his persistence with Glenn Whelan – he probably did the right thing in teaching Andy Reid a lesson – the big man is culpable, as he is for sending Paul McShane out to defend our right flank. But in the bigger picture he has been forced to operate with too many sub-standard surgical instruments.

Answer: There’s no short term answer. Ireland’s inability to hold possession and play the ball through midfield is a cancer which has been left dormant for too long. Giovanni Trapattoni will need to be some sort of miracle worker to change that, but in all likelihood this transformation is going to take years to affect (that is if we do the right thing now and bring in foreign coaches to teach our youngest and most impressionable). The big Italian will be lucky to get this Ireland team to South Africa.


Problem: Dearth of midfield creativity.

It is an established fact that the Irish midfield lacks creativity. The ongoing debate about Andy Reid has been experienced by all living things over the last six months – Saturday’s exclusion of the Sunderland midfielder appearing to set the seal on his international career at least while Trapattoni is involved.

But is that the end of this particular story? Are we destined to be tortured by the ineffectual Glenn Whelan for the remainder of this World Cup campaign? What about Robbie Keane? It has long since been suggested in this column that Tottenham’s best attacking midfielder be billeted in a similar role for his country. It’s an experiment which must begin in Bari on Wednesday night. There are no alternatives at this stage - that is unless Trap wants to opt for Shane Long, Owen Garvan or some other midfield fledgling. That the manager persisted with Whelan for the duration on Saturday is very troubling.

In Keane’s forward berth, place Noel Hunt. He has the legs and lungs to complement Kevin Doyle.

Answer: Robbie Keane

Problem: A misconception which needs explaining.

The Premier League is purported to be the best football league in the world. Ireland had seven players from its vaulted ranks starting at Croke Park on Saturday. Bulgaria, on the other hand had only one. How then were the visitors so much better in many facets of the game?

Answer: Those who use the Premier League as a common denominator or an indicator of ability are quite probably mistaken.

[Stuttgart88]

Those who use the Premier League as a common denominator or an indicator of ability are quite probably mistaken.That's what I thought last night. I couldn't believe how few of our players had even the basic technical ability.

Neither full back looked to have the basics.
Neither central midfielder could get the ball down and use it, even sideways.
Hunt is a carthorse. Great first minute but that's about it.

How on earth can these guys earn such a good living? I thought last night that if Everton are chasing Hunt it says it all about the EPL.

Who looked OK technically? One wide midfielder (being charitable here to McGeady who wasn't fit I'd say). The CB's - I dunno, I'll be charitable and say CM failed to give them a proper option.

Both forwards did well enough considering.

[the doc]

[quote=Jicked;1132400]Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Alex Bruce can't even get a regular game in a below average side!

Both Bruce and McShane are on their way down, they won't bet any better as they lack ability.

It's a disgrace that Trapp takes the easy option and keeps picking them, whilst better players continue to perform well week in week out, and don't get a look in.

They say the strength of your team and squad can be judged by the quality of players on the bench.....Oh dear!

Well Done Trapp!

Well Done Don!

[Jicked]

[quote=Jicked;1132400]Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Alex Bruce can't even get a regular game in a below average side!

Both Bruce and McShane are on their way down, they won't bet any better as they lack ability.

It's a disgrace that Trapp takes the easy option and keeps picking them, whilst better players continue to perform well week in week out, and don't get a look in.

They say the strength of your team and squad can be judged by the quality of players on the bench.....Oh dear!

Well Done Trapp!

Well Done Don!

I've just read your last 75 posts. 2 out of those 75 were not about St Ledger or Eddie Nolan, and those two were still criticising the Irish team.

You are a painfully tiresome.

[carloz]

Chris McCann

[SilkCut]

A little lengthy lads, but here goes.


Problem: Dearth of midfield creativity.

It is an established fact that the Irish midfield lacks creativity. The ongoing debate about Andy Reid has been experienced by all living things over the last six months – Saturday’s exclusion of the Sunderland midfielder appearing to set the seal on his international career at least while Trapattoni is involved.

But is that the end of this particular story? Are we destined to be tortured by the ineffectual Glenn Whelan for the remainder of this World Cup campaign? What about Robbie Keane? It has long since been suggested in this column that Tottenham’s best attacking midfielder be billeted in a similar role for his country. It’s an experiment which must begin in Bari on Wednesday night. There are no alternatives at this stage - that is unless Trap wants to opt for Shane Long, Owen Garvan or some other midfield fledgling. That the manager persisted with Whelan for the duration on Saturday is very troubling.

In Keane’s forward berth, place Noel Hunt. He has the legs and lungs to complement Kevin Doyle.

Answer: Robbie Keane

.

This is a very good observation, I fully agree that Keane should be deployed in the same role as Gerrard at Liverpool, that is what they bought him for, then sold him when they realised they could not leave 20 million worth of playing talent on the bench as back up to possibly the best player in the world at the moment. With Keane in that role there is no need to replace him with anyone just leave Doyle up on his own to feed off what Keane gives him, Doyle, despite his limitations is a very good finisher. As for the players on the list, I agree Morrison should get another chance ahead of Folan, DeLap never really had any great effect when he was in the squad even with his long throw in so I don't see any reason for that to change. Carsley may be good to have around for the younger players but nothing else. Carr has been out of football for too long he is now a championship player at best but may be useful if Finnan can't get fit (apparently he never really wanted to come out of retirement). Murphy is not the answer to any of our problems - Stephen elliot mark 2. Andy Reid is a fat lazy waste of undoubted talent who is a bit part player at a club who are trying to go places, he will be sold back to a championship club in the summer, unless he wakes up and realises what he is about to throw away. He is in no way shape or form worthy of a place in a team who's biggest strength is its work rate and spirit.

We need a friendly to fast track McCarthy and McCann - possibly Garvan.

[Brendan 82]

[quote=the doc;1132582]

I've just read your last 75 posts. 2 out of those 75 were not about St Ledger or Eddie Nolan, and those two were still criticising the Irish team.

You are a painfully tiresome.

haha:D

[Hibernian]

What about Keith Fahey ?

surely he deserves a chance.


not yet imo

[Gareth]

On Andy Reid:

Played in 21 games this season for Sunderland.

12 of them as a sub, which means 9 starts.

1 goal and 3 assists to date.

28 shots, 10 on target.

2 Yellow Cards

This year he has played 727 minutes of football since January 1st.
----------------------------------------------

Don't care about the stats too much, albeit they do show he is playing but not that much, however one thing that is getting on my nerves, is the constant media chatter and fan chatter that Andy Reid is going to be some saviour. He is ok. He is no Messi.

[Razors left peg]

On Andy Reid:

Played in 21 games this season for Sunderland.

12 of them as a sub, which means 9 starts.

1 goal and 3 assists to date.

28 shots, 10 on target.

2 Yellow Cards

This year he has played 727 minutes of football since January 1st.
----------------------------------------------

Don't care about the stats too much, albeit they do show he is playing but not that much, however one thing that is getting on my nerves, is the constant media chatter and fan chatter that Andy Reid is going to be some saviour. He is ok. He is no Messi.

he is a hell of a better player than Whelan or Andy Keogh

[Gareth]

he is a hell of a better player than Whelan or Andy Keogh

That's fair enough, but all manager's play people you think are weaker than someone else at their disposal. It's always been the way. I just think people are getting a bit ahead of themselves in thinking he's a messiah who must be in the squad for us to qualify.

Trapatoni has a way of playing, and we may hate it, but we have a very average squad and if he manages to finish second or first in this group, he will have done something extremely impressive.

[noddy102]

Whoever claims Clinton Morrison works hard, needs to get real.

The only player of the list in the original post that should be in the squad is Andy Reid. There can be no questioning that he is off-form at the moment, but even when off form, he is worth having on the bench, so that you can change things around.

[Royal rover]

none of the players mentioned with the exception of reid deserve to be in the squad, to think some of you would be in favour of having clinton back as well as stephen carr

[backstothewall]

- Rory Delap - Provides the most direct route to goal known to man, an interesting prospect from the bench. I'm undecided if I'd use him or not.

We should no be too proud to use him. We were never to proud to hump it up to Quinner or Cas when we needed to.

I would have him i the starting 11. Despite being unorthadox he offers a threat. A goal created by virtue of a 40 yard throw in onto Dunne or Doyle's head counts for exactly the same number of goals as one created as a result of a 40 yard slide-rule pass from Fabregas to Villa.

He also offers as much as a midfielder as anyone else we have available. Its not that we are falling down with creative midfielders in the absence of Ireland

[SkStu]

always thought Delap was harshly treated in the past. Dropped forever for one mistake in a friendly against the USA (i think), similar to Keanes mistake on Saturday when a Bulgarian player had a free header from a corner early in the first half. Difference was it didnt cost us a goal on Saturday.

I watched the NI game on Setanta here (free trial - woohoo) on Sunday and the Poles werent shy about launching long throws into the NI box. If its good enough for them, its good enough for us.

Also, having watched Delap for Stoke a few times this season, he is not the one-dimensional player he is painted as being in this forum. Great stamina, very strong, decent passer and, of course, he can take a throw in pretty effectively.

I think he could do a job for us.

[irishfan86]

I think Delap would have been a very good option given that we're having these injury problems to our wingers.

Why not have him out there against Italy? He's better defensively than Keogh, plays on the wing regularly, and is a goal threat with his throw ins.

Our game is already as ugly as hell, why not try and make it more effective?

[DmanDmythDledge]

On Andy Reid:

Played in 21 games this season for Sunderland.

12 of them as a sub, which means 9 starts.

1 goal and 3 assists to date.

28 shots, 10 on target.

2 Yellow Cards

This year he has played 727 minutes of football since January 1st.
----------------------------------------------

Don't care about the stats too much, albeit they do show he is playing but not that much, however one thing that is getting on my nerves, is the constant media chatter and fan chatter that Andy Reid is going to be some saviour. He is ok. He is no Messi.
I don't know where you got those stats from but he has started 15 out of 22 games for Sunderland since Nov 8th. He has been played on the left wing quite a bit, which is his worst of the four midfield positions.

EDIT: started 21/35 all competitions. Higher %age of starts since Sbragia became manager. He has been a regular since he has been appointed.

He is head and shoulders above our current options for central midfield. We don't have a player in the squad (or out of) with his range of passing or vision (perhaps SI). The vast majority of people would have him in our starting XI- fans, media, pundits etc. In recent years only Duff and S Reid have performed better than him in midfield for Ireland.

Him not being in the team is bad enough, but not in the squad at all is mind boggling. Even if Trap's system was a good tactical formation there is no logical reasoning not having a different style of player on the bench. What options do we have if we are not playing well, as has been the case many times this campaign? Take our midfielders selected in the most recent squad:

Aiden McGeady
Damien Duff
Darron Gibson
Glenn Whelan
Keith Andrews
Liam Miller
Stephen Hunt
Andy Keogh
Anthony Stokes

If we want to change the game there is no player that we can add to our midfield that will do that. All options are the same style of player that is currently on the pitch (and the options for the wings are poor). Our way of playing is completely one-dimensional and teams will surely have copped this on by now.

There's plenty more I could say about this as I feel very strongly about the exclusion of Andy Reid but I'll finish with this- leaving him out of the team is a miss-judgement, leaving him out of the squad is completely misguided.

[TerryPhelan]

To my mind, the strongest squad that could possibly be picked - injuries and self-imposed exiles included - would be this:

Given
Kiely
Westwood

Finnan
J O'Brien
Kelly
Dunne
JOS
A O'Brien
Kilbane
Delaney

McGeady
Duff
Hunt
A Reid
S Reid
S Ireland
Carsley
Whelan
Andrews

Keane
Doyle
Morrison
Folan
Long

There are precious few weak links in there. On paper it is actually quite impressive in terms of experienced players who are getting their game at club level.

A team of:

Given

Finnan
Dunne
JOS
Kilbane

Duff
S Reid
Carsley/Ireland
McGeady

Keane
Doyle

... would be fantastic. The central midfield is probably not one that Trap would pick - accommodating Ireland anywhere other than the right wing would require some considerable tinkering, or all-out abandonment of his CDM policy in centre midfield - but at least we would be deliiberating from a position of strength and genuine choice.

I don't raise this merely as a self-indulgent act of wishful thinking of Champ Man-style frivolity. A couple of points are to be made.

One, whatever about Bulgaria missing Berbatov, Bojinov, Petrov and Tunchev, we were always wrong to expect that this would give us a divine right to beating them. The news of Duff's injury seemed to wake people up belatedly to the fact that it might not be a total walkover - the fact that we were missing two of our more influential and technically gifted players already (S Reid and Finnan) had been somehow forgotten. Those were huge losses for us. There isn't any sign of chatter on a Steven Reid thread yet but he has been a massive loss for us. I would rate him in a similar bracket to the late great Keith O'Neill who always electrified Ireland's play when he was on the pitch, though we were cruelly robbed of ever seeing him get a sustained opportunity at that. Reid is influential, composed, technically excellent, precise in his passing, strong in the air and brisk in the tackle. He will be back in September (mate of mine was texting him after the Bulgaria match) and we have to keep the dream alive until then. He'll be back for the Cyprus, Italy and Montenegro matches and should make a huge difference.

Secondly, er, I really like making lists of possible full-strength Irish squads. And teams.

Good night!!

[Guts&Glory]

Reid isnt in the Squad because himself and Trap had an argument and neither party will back down.

Even when Reid was available he wasnt exactly turning in World Class performances - all of a sudden because he isn't in the squad he is World Class - Ireland's Messi etc. - get real!!

Why have managers consistently overlooked him at club level ? They cannot all be wrong surely.

Granted he is a better passer of the ball than Andrews or Whelan but Trap throughout his management career likes defenders who only defend, grafters in centre mid, wingers who can attack and track back and two strikers to run their socks off.

It is his formula and it has brought him success over the years.

He aint going to change at 70 years of age.

Oh an are you listening Stephen Hunt ?????

Stop telling us how ready you are for an Irish start and having a great opinion of yourself and then failing to perform repeatedly when given a starting berth.

Lets see some evidence of your your supposed ability that you never tire of telling us all about in the press............gggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Gareth]

I don't know where you got those stats from but he has started 15 out of 22 games for Sunderland since Nov 8th. He has been played on the left wing quite a bit, which is his worst of the four midfield positions.

EDIT: started 21/35 all competitions. Higher %age of starts since Sbragia became manager. He has been a regular since he has been appointed.


My stats are correct. Compiled from one source and cross checked on another :) Starting 15 out of 22 games since November still fits my statistics produced :) I don't doubt Reid is a decent player, my poorly formed point was I don't believe he is the key to success. I think there is an element of "Joe Duffy'ing" going on, over hyping a player the longer a situation goes on. If we are not careful, there will be a tribunal soon on it.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Reid isnt in the Squad because himself and Trap had an argument and neither party will back down.
:confused:What the hell has Reid got to back down from? His comments in the media relating to his exlusion have only expressed his strong desire to play for his country and has not resorted to having a pop at Trap, like many people in his situation would have done (not that I'd have agreed).


Even when Reid was available he wasnt exactly turning in World Class performances - all of a sudden because he isn't in the squad he is World Class - Ireland's Messi etc. - get real!!Who said he was? His performances have been better than our current central midfield options and back up wing options.


Why have managers consistently overlooked him at club level ? They cannot all be wrong surely.Who? Sbragia is playing him regularly, Keane did for most of his tenure. He was Charlton's star player and captain. Things didn't exactly work out for him at Spurs but I think that's becaues he was bought as a left winger, which is a position he is average in imo. Was a key player for Forest too.

Internationally, since he got his debut, he's been a regular when fit under each manager up to now. Don't know about underage but I think he was a regular. Somebody else will confirm anyway. Your comment couldn't be further from the truth.


Granted he is a better passer of the ball than Andrews or Whelan but Trap throughout his management career likes defenders who only defend, grafters in centre mid, wingers who can attack and track back and two strikers to run their socks off.

It is his formula and it has brought him success over the years.

He aint going to change at 70 years of age.His system does not suit the players we have and our midfield has struggled in most games since he took over.

Anyone who has actually watched Reid play CM without a blinkered view will know his workrate is more than sufficient. Loads of examples from games with Sunderland last season. Also our home game against Germany last campaign. Anyone who thinks workrate or fitness is an issue with him is simply not telling the truth.


My stats are correct. Compiled from one source and cross checked on another :) Starting 15 out of 22 games since November still fits my statistics produced

I don't doubt Reid is a decent player, my poorly formed point was I don't believe he is the key to success. I think there is an element of "Joe Duffy'ing" going on, over hyping a player the longer a situation goes on. If we are not careful, there will be a tribunal soon on it.
Well I got mine from tets site;
http://www.chatsoccer.net/irishabroad/playerDetails.xquery?playerID=23629&seasonID=138 (see top right).

Well I disagree that he is not key to our success but surely you can see the difference he would make to our team, even just if he was brought on for the last 30mins of a game? He's going to create clearcut chances- that's a guarantee. I fancy either of our strikers in a one-on-one situation from a Reid through ball.:)

As I said the majority of people would have had him in our starting XI, even before Trap took over. I think the hype is more to do with Trap failing coming up for a proper reason for excluding him, his talent compared to what's in the squad (eg Miller), our poor midfield performances this campaign (bar opening two games) and other reasons I mentioned in my earlier post. I think it's more to do the vast improvement he would bring, not his actual skill level.

[NeilMcD]

I remember going to Prague for the away game and saying that Reid has to start he has to start and my mates were saying all things that people are saying that he does not track back enough and he does not have the legs etc. There was a quick breakaway in that game that night and Reid matched Rosicky all the way and if the ball had of dropped to rosicky reid was right on top of him. He did that the whole night that night so I do not think there would be a problem at all with himself and Andrews in the team, it woudl be better than what we have now. Also he would be better than Keogh coming on the wing.

[Stuttgart88]

always thought Delap was harshly treated in the past.

Also, having watched Delap for Stoke a few times this season, he is not the one-dimensional player he is painted as being in this forum. Great stamina, very strong, decent passer and, of course, he can take a throw in pretty effectively.

I think he could do a job for us.Agree entirely.

[noddy102]

To put to bed the argument that Delap should be in the squad...

To claim he plays regularly for Stoke on the wing is a lie. He has played at right back and right midfield for Stoke this season. At no point this season has he played on the right wing. With the system Trap adopts with the Irish team, there is no way we could expect Delap to play on the right wing. He'd never be able to last the pace of going forward and tracking back. Plus he is hardly creative on the ball is he?

Also, what the hell good would his long throws be for the Irish team? Do we really think Doyle or Keane are going to be able to make the best use of this weapon? Fair enough Doyle is great in the air and is strong, but he would be bullied out of it in the box, and tomorrow night, Cannavaro is going to nullify his strengths in the air.

Delap might be a good option at right back. You could argue for his place ahead of McShane in the squad. Personally I'd have Finnan, then Foley, then Kelly, then maybe Delap ahead of McShane. But still, Delap shouldn't be in the current squad.

[Stuttgart88]

He's actually a very experienced central midfielder.

Just like Steven Reid's early years for Ireland, some bright spark decided Delap was a right sided midfielder whereas he was a central midfielder. I think one or two of our past managers couldn't tell the difference between a right-footed midfielder and a rigght-sided midfielder. Delap's best years were as a defensive central midfielder under Strachan. He's still only 32 and arguably the best athlete we have in Steven Reid's absence.

He may not be the answer but Stu's assertion that he's not a one trick pony is spot on.

[noddy102]

He's actually a very experienced central midfielder.

Just like Steven Reid's early years for Ireland, some bright spark decided Delap was a right sided midfielder whereas he was a central midfielder. I think one or two of our past managers couldn't tell the difference between a right-footed midfielder and a rigght-sided midfielder. Delap's best years were as a defensive central midfielder under Strachan. He's still only 32 and arguably the best athlete we have in Steven Reid's absence.

He may not be the answer but Stu's assertion that he's not a one trick pony is spot on.

So are you now arguing you'd have him in the team ahead of one of either of our two midfielders who are regularly playing at central midfield on a weekly basis for the club, even though he has not even played @ central midfield for Stoke this season, because has played there before? Or would you rather he was simply in the squad?

[Scram]

Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Anyway,

- Andy Reid
Yes, would be a good option to spring from the bench. Not an option to start for me though.

- Lee Carsley
Carsley was a part of Irish midfield for years that could never get a grip on a game, don't see why that would have changed now the legs are even older. Wouldn't offer anything from the bench.

- Rory Delap
Absolutely not. Yes he can take a long throw in, but if it wasnt for that throw in no-one would even consider him.

- Clinton Morrison
Nine goals in the Championship this season, he's hardly pulling up trees. Can't really see him troubling international defences. Neil Warnock released him from Palace not deeming him good enough.

- Daryl Murphy
I quite like Murphy, but don't really think he's in a different class to someone like Keogh or Noel Hunt. I'd have him in the squad, but lets face it he's not going to turn a game for you.

- Stephen Carr
No bloody way.

Agree, except for Carlsley who I rate a step above Whelan.

[drummerboy]

I think Delap should be in the squad because of his versatility and fitness levels. Whats the point in having a guy like Liam Miller in the squad who can't command a place in a poor championship side.

[Jicked]

Agree, except for Carlsley who I rate a step above Whelan.

A couple of years ago I would have agreed, but he's 35 now, will be 36 by the time the World Cup comes around. With our set up at the moment we see our current players tiring towards end of games, would Carsley really be able to keep it up for 90 minutes? If not you're then talking about withdrawing him after 60/70 minutes and bringing in Whelan who will then have to get a grip on the game very, very quickly. Then there's the question over if we did get to the WC how would he be able to play 3/4 games in quick succession in the heat, in one of the most physically demanding positions on the pitch. A good servant in his years, but I think its time to move on now.

[Stuttgart88]

So are you now arguing you'd have him in the team ahead of one of either of our two midfielders who are regularly playing at central midfield on a weekly basis for the club, even though he has not even played @ central midfield for Stoke this season, because has played there before? Or would you rather he was simply in the squad?What I said was "He may not be the answer but Stu's assertion that he's not a one trick pony is spot on".

I think it's too late to throw him in almost as wildcard now, but I think successive managers have treated him harshly. Worse players have got far more caps. I think he's deserving of a squad place on merit.

I think Murphy's ability to play on the left, as well as being good in the air, should put him ahead of Folan. I think Lawrence is a better RHM option than Keogh, and if his Poland cameo is anything to go by, Long is a better RHM option than Keogh too.

I'll be first to admit that none of these is a totally inspiring option buyt they're probably better options than the current 24 allows.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't care what age a player will be next summer, I care about how well he can play now! Is he an improvement? It's a very marginal call.

[lionelhutz]

One thing that struck me about last night (and most other people too) was the horrible bench we had. When we had Hunt playing we had literally nobody who could make any sort of impact and most our bench was composed of fringe players for their club.
How many of the experienced options below, each playing well for their club should be considered? I think each of them offer something different and worthwhile, surely worthy of a squad place. Our strength in depth in the current squad really has me worried if we get hit with a few injuries.

- Andy Reid
- Lee Carsley
- Rory Delap
- Clinton Morrison
- Daryl Murphy
- Stephen Carr

Replace what we had on the bench last night with those guys and I think we'd have serious options to change a game. Right now we're too predictable.

Ive just being reading over the posts in a couple of threads and I'm just wondering - has someone taken over Ciarans log in and started posting? Because ive read his posts in the last few days and to my surprise there's actually been some insight and intelligence in his posts.

Regarding the substitutes, I thought the exact same in Croke Park on Saturday - Hunt, McGeady, Kilbane and Keane were having awful games and there were absolutely no options on the bench. I know its probably been said already but it was frightening how inept we were at keeping possession on Saturday. Oh how I pined for Andy Reid.

[third policeman]

I cant remember anyone on this site ever advocating Stephen Quinn, yet he is a consistent performer for one of the best teams in the Championshipo and could be playing in the premiership next season.

I've seen him play a couple of times live and more recently on the TV and he looks like quite a decent player. He is as good as many of the midfielders who are eitrher being selected or mooted at the minute, but I wonder if he could actually provide the answer to our left back problem. He is left sided, has good technique, has reasonable pace and is a tenacious tackler. We are a small country with a limited playing pool, I think we should be willing to entertain the idea that our best team might involve playing people in different positions to where they play for their club. People reject Delap because they doubt whether he is any better than Andrews / Whelan or our current wide players, but would he be a worse right back than McShane?

[lionelhutz]

I agree with you about Delap. I think he could definitely be an option for us at right back. Didn't he play there before for Ireland? McShane always looks like he's holding a live grenade when he's on the ball. A dear in headlights would be more composed.

Not sure about Stephen Quinn - haven't seen him for a while. But of what I remember he looked very weak on the ball and never seemed to have enough time or space on the ball to create things

[Closed Account 2]

I'd like to see Alan Lee in the squad. I think we need to at least have the option of a tall aerially dominant striker in the squad. In years gone by the likes of Quinn always gave us an option. In international football especially a lot of teams who are not over-endowed with skillfull attacking players use tall target men to great effect. Even quality teams have, on occasion, adopted this approach in the last decade e.g. Germany (Jancker/ Bierhoff), Italy (Toni / Vieri), Czechs (Koller / Lokvenc), Russia (Pavlyuckenko / Pogrbnyak), Sweden (Ibrahimovic / Kennet Andersson). Even when we had Gary Doherty on as a make shift striker for a few matches he had the ability to hurt certain teams e.g. during the Euro 2004 qualifiers I think he ended up being our top scorer...

At 30 he's not got much tarmac left on the runway, but at 6ft 3 he does give us an option from the bench that the likes of Noel Hunt and Long don't provide. Maybe Folan is a similar player to him, but I think with Folan's injury record Lee might be a better bet in the short term.

I'd like to see him on the bench and thrown on if we need to get a goal and change the system up a bit.

[Stuttgart88]

Isn't that what Folan is supposed to be there for, and then Murphy? I saw Lee recently, he was ok but no more than that. Jon Walters outshone him and though not as tall is actaully better in the air.

[Scram]

To my mind, the strongest squad that could possibly be picked - injuries and self-imposed exiles included - would be this:

Given
Kiely
Westwood

Finnan
J O'Brien
Kelly
Dunne
JOS
A O'Brien
Kilbane
Delaney

McGeady
Duff
Hunt
A Reid
S Reid
S Ireland
Carsley
Whelan
Andrews

Keane
Doyle
Morrison
Folan
Long

There are precious few weak links in there. On paper it is actually quite impressive in terms of experienced players who are getting their game at club level.

A team of:

Given

Finnan
Dunne
JOS
Kilbane

Duff
S Reid
Carsley/Ireland
McGeady

Keane
Doyle

... would be fantastic. The central midfield is probably not one that Trap would pick - accommodating Ireland anywhere other than the right wing would require some considerable tinkering, or all-out abandonment of his CDM policy in centre midfield - but at least we would be deliiberating from a position of strength and genuine choice.

I don't raise this merely as a self-indulgent act of wishful thinking of Champ Man-style frivolity. A couple of points are to be made.

One, whatever about Bulgaria missing Berbatov, Bojinov, Petrov and Tunchev, we were always wrong to expect that this would give us a divine right to beating them. The news of Duff's injury seemed to wake people up belatedly to the fact that it might not be a total walkover - the fact that we were missing two of our more influential and technically gifted players already (S Reid and Finnan) had been somehow forgotten. Those were huge losses for us. There isn't any sign of chatter on a Steven Reid thread yet but he has been a massive loss for us. I would rate him in a similar bracket to the late great Keith O'Neill who always electrified Ireland's play when he was on the pitch, though we were cruelly robbed of ever seeing him get a sustained opportunity at that. Reid is influential, composed, technically excellent, precise in his passing, strong in the air and brisk in the tackle. He will be back in September (mate of mine was texting him after the Bulgaria match) and we have to keep the dream alive until then. He'll be back for the Cyprus, Italy and Montenegro matches and should make a huge difference.

Secondly, er, I really like making lists of possible full-strength Irish squads. And teams.

Good night!!

Good post, good squad, good team.

Good luck!

[DotTV]

To my mind, the strongest squad that could possibly be picked - injuries and self-imposed exiles included - would be this:






for us. There isn't any sign of chatter on a Steven Reid thread yet but he has been a massive loss for us. I would rate him in a similar bracket to the late great Keith O'Neill who always electrified Ireland's play when he was on the pitch, though we were cruelly robbed of ever seeing him get a sustained opportunity at that. Reid is influential, composed, technically excellent, precise in his passing, strong in the air and brisk in the tackle. He will be back in September (mate of mine was texting him after the Bulgaria match) and we have to keep the dream alive until then. He'll be back for the Cyprus, Italy and Montenegro matches and should make a huge difference.

Secondly, er, I really like making lists of possible full-strength Irish squads. And teams.

Good night!!

late???

[Colbert Report]

This Irish team is shockingly bad. The worst collection of players I can recall in my life. We're going to be very lucky not to get beaten by four or five goals tonight.

[seanog2001]

i have to say the midfield is as bad as its been for a long time keogh and whelan are not international players andrews cud turn out to be a useful player but nowhere near as good as carsley or a reid as for s hunt he is a palyer who will give it his all but his all is not good enough i think if we fail to quailfy for the world cup trapp has to go and with the bulgars making progress in catching us we will have to vastly improve over the next couple of games to nick second, BTW bulgaria lead cyprus 1-0

[Wangball]

Whatever about Andy Reid, Lee Carsley would not improve that midfield

[Mcgeady46]

Daryl Murphy would be good to have for his height that is all

Reid should be there as we are thread bare in midfield but is not the world superstar people are making him out to be.

Carsley would be a good option to have as back up - but maybe it would be better to groom a younger player in that position.

Delap - see andy reid

Carr - ha ha

S Ireland - I dont even consider him to be an Irish international anymore, either does Richard Dunne so that stance is good enough for me.

Joey O brien - decent enough solid and versitile a good squad player

[lionelhutz]

This Irish team is shockingly bad. The worst collection of players I can recall in my life. We're going to be very lucky not to get beaten by four or five goals tonight.

Its like you had a premonition............

[Scram]

http://www.canaries.co.uk/javaImages/8e/5d/0,,10355~3759502,00.jpg

[Colbert Report]

Its like you had a premonition............


Hang on just a second, if we had known that they'd have to play almost the entire match a man down I think all predictions would be out the window.