Irish public popularity shift away from soccer?

[paul_oshea]

On top of that, it also allows the public to relate to our "stars" in a way that it's hard to with our UK football stars. The rubgy guys live here and work here. The footballers are away in the clouds!

As said above, the old bond between fan and team has been broken in football but it can be won back - the likes of Doyle and Stephen Hunt clearly have brought a sense of realism back into the fold.

good old down to earth gaa country lads.

[Macy]

I don't think the IRFU is above critism - the failure to actually fully commit to making Connacht truly competitive would be a case in point for me.

However, the biggest difference is how the game is structured. It's all about feeding up from mini rugby to the international team. In football, the individual elements fight for their own identity and do their own thing. There's not a hope of the "nursery" clubs feeding into the League of Ireland, as that would go against their aim of getting players overseas and up on club house plaques. Indeed, even at that level, it's not about player development it's about trophies. You can blame the organisation all you want, but it's ultimately down to the FAI constituent parts that they can't get a truely coherent plan to develop both players for the international team and the League of Ireland.

[fergalr]

To the public theres nothing but shame and disappointment associated with the LOI.
Really? Which public are you claiming to speak for?

The sell-out crowd that went to Tallaght two weeks ago and the sell-out crowd that will be there this Friday?

Everyone who witnessed any of the many LOI successes in Europe over the past 5 years?

[Macy]

Are you really so deluded to believe that the typical soccer fan knows squat about the LOI? The LOI is probably on par with schools rugby in this country and thats even being generous, I can imagine Shannon and Garryowen getting higher crowds and probably more Tv time than the LOI.
And if we ever have a successful football team it will be more by accident than design because of attitudes like this. As I said earlier, you can talk all the bullcrap you want about the organisations, it's the attitudes amongst the entire system that has Irish football in the place it is - there's no collective goal like there is in Rugby.

[Stuttgart88]

the biggest difference is how the game is structured. It's all about feeding up from mini rugby to the international team. In football, the individual elements fight for their own identity and do their own thing. There's not a hope of the "nursery" clubs feeding into the League of Ireland, as that would go against their aim of getting players overseas and up on club house plaques. Indeed, even at that level, it's not about player development it's about trophies. You can blame the organisation all you want, but it's ultimately down to the FAI constituent parts that they can't get a truely coherent plan to develop both players for the international team and the League of Ireland.Can the FAI change that though?

[Macy]

Under their current structure I don't think they could, and I don't see how the turkey's would vote for christmas to allow the change of structure!

[Stuttgart88]

(Putting on Bill O'Herlihy's voice) Let me put it to you Macy that if the abovementioned "Magners League" equivalent happened to ever be in place, with the best Irish clubs competing against better European competition, that this'd lead to these clubs being more successful financially and then these clubs would be more viable "targets" for the nursery clubs? That way we'd have the better Irish players at home in a similar manner to the rugby players (though obviously not the very best - they'd still go abroad) . The best Irish based talent would be concentrated rather than spread throughout a larger LOI and would be complemented by some imports.

[elroy]

Good post, I prefer the game of soccer to rugby but I'd support the rugby lads far more than the soccer team for the reason that the players and staff and much more worthy of my support. They are integrated in society, with the people and are a very good representation of the country. You get ROG's arrogance, Paulies confidence, Drico's mind games, Bowe singing in front of the crowd in comparison to the cringeworthy 2002 world cup homecoming where the whole team shuffled around nervously probably frustrated they weren't able to go straight to their actual home. Even several of the lads like Luke Fitzgerald can speak fluent Irish. All I get from the soccer team is an inferiority complex that should have been left behind half a century ago with some exceptions like Doyle and Hunt. But for every one of those theres 4 Andy O Briens or Alex Bruces.

Worthy of your support because basically they live here is it?!? Oh right ya thats great criteria so it is. Funny how one of the examples you mentioned above Tommy Bowe earns his keep in Wales. I agree that the guys that live here are obviously going to be integrated in society more than our professional footballers in the UK. I also agree that some individuals in the Irish football havent exactly been easy to relate to, however take the likes of Clinton Morrison who had questionable Irish credentials but showed a real desire to play for us when he did and was a great character that the fans took to. Many more examples from the past, Houghton, Aldridge, McCarthy, McAteer etc etc etc.

Representation of their country, so are you trying to say that the likes of Given, Dunne, Keane etc are not good representatives of their country, even Kilbane who was born in the UK but is as good a representative of this country as any Irishman.

Who are these several lads that can speak "fluent" Irish? Luke F has decent Irish (Obviously you saw him on the news the other day), who else does???? Again i dont see this a valid criteria for a player been more "worthy of your support"

[jbyrne]

having been in cardiff last sat it reminded me of how our football occasions used to be. loyal, hardcore and colourful support was to be seen by both sides. the whole day in cardiff was a massive sporting occasion and this was all because of the match that was in it. if our footballers can achieve similar relative success over the next few months then football will be right up there again in the eyes of the nation.
unfortunately for the last few years our football team have underperformed and appeared to lack a little care and passion. the apparent current apathy towards our team by the general public will disappear with a few good results over the next few games

[bennocelt]

Worthy of support because they represent my culture, interesting card to play since I'm sure you'd support the LOI if you weren't Irish. :rolleyes:

Bowe went to Ospreys because Ulster became total pants and with the wingers Leinster and Munster have he wouldn't get into their teams, what real choice did he have?

And yeah others do speak Irish on the rugby team, Paulie and Flannery were both educated in Gaeltachts actually. :D

i dont know - but when i played football in college i had great fun, made good friends and was welcomed. tried to play on the rugby team - complete opposite - played by hobnobs that wouldnt talk to you - maybe its different now?

and what the hell does speaking irish prove? that they went to good schools?
a lot of gaelcoers are snobs too -

[gspain]

Worthy of support because they represent my culture, interesting card to play since I'm sure you'd support the LOI if you weren't Irish. :rolleyes:

Bowe went to Ospreys because Ulster became total pants and with the wingers Leinster and Munster have he wouldn't get into their teams, what real choice did he have?

And yeah others do speak Irish on the rugby team, Paulie and Flannery were both educated in Gaeltachts actually. :D


Paul O'Connell and Jerry Flannery were both educated in Limerick at Ard Scoil Ris and St. Munchins respectively. These are not in gaeltacht areas.

Considering you consistently use false facts how do you expect anybody to believe your analysis?

[soccerc]

Paul O'Connell and Jerry Flannery were both educated in Limerick at Ard Scoil Ris and St. Munchins respectively. These are not in gaeltacht areas.

Considering you consistently use false facts how do you expect anybody to believe your analysis?

Probably see's Ard Scoil Ris (Rice High School) and makes an assumption as our Ciaran is oft knwon to do.

His culture afterall is rugby players who live in his community. Do you recall his assessment of Keith Fahey? Keith was if I need to remind you part of St Patrick's Ath, a community football (soccer) club based in Inchicore, Dublin, a club totally intergrated with it's hinterland.

Why countenance his inaccurate drivel, feeding trolls results in them returning

[soccerc]

Gandhi was totally integrated with his hinterland too doesn't mean I'm going to go out and buy a shirt with his name on it if said hinterland isn't my hinterland.

PMSL, contradicting yourself again.

[SUB of the day]

Great day last Saturday,but compare the National reaction now to Italia '90 ,was O Connell St deserted on Saturday at 5pm? was there scenes of unbridled public celebration on the streets? did 500,000 turnout to welcome the team home?...well no, no and about 18,000 actually.The rugby definitely gave us all a lift, as did Bernard dunne, but winning an annual tournament limited to teams from 4 juristinctions is well short of "unbelievable"

[gustavo]

It'd be interesting as a bebo project to question every sports fan in UL and seeing how many of them even know what the name of the ground Limerick 37 play in. :D

It would be.

Why don't you go and do that and report back here with your results when you're finished.

[fergalr]

And get TV3 to capture screen shots and give an authentic voice-over.

[elroy]

Worthy of support because they represent my culture, interesting card to play since I'm sure you'd support the LOI if you weren't Irish. :rolleyes:

Bowe went to Ospreys because Ulster became total pants and with the wingers Leinster and Munster have he wouldn't get into their teams, what real choice did he have?

And yeah others do speak Irish on the rugby team, Paulie and Flannery were both educated in Gaeltachts actually. :D

1 Whats your point?? If you feel the rugby team represent your culture more, fair enough but that doesnt mean that on an objective level they are more "Irish" or "representative of our country" than the football team.

2 Ok, well he did have the choice to stay with Ulster,they are arguably a team on the up now. Anyways your response no way justifys your original point.

3 you've already been proven wrong on this. I speak Irish too, big deal!! probably just as good as Flannery or O'C, but neither speak it fluently as you first said. In fact Stephen and Noel Hunt probably speak Irish as 'fluently' as those two. Anyways i didnt ask what players speak Irish, i asked for the players that speak "fluent" Irish as you stated there were. Either way, Its a bit of an irrelevant issue in the context of the debate.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness to Ciaran, I think I may have been the first here just to throw out the remark that maybe people relate more to the rugby guys because they're based here primarily and aren't pampered superstar millionaires secondly.

It's not being "more representative" it's more being "easier to connect with". In consideration to responses like jbyrne's I'll very happily concede that it's probably not where they're based or even born, but rather how hard they try that keeps the connection. Either way, I think none of us can argue that the connection that used to exist between fan and team in football was broken some time back, though I think it's returning and will return quicker if success is seen.

With regard to Kilbane in particular I said a while back that I think he's the finest character of anyone to wear the green of his/our generation. I think so strongly about this I'm happy to repeat it, and also to extend it to the rugby code too. I just wish he was a better left back :)

[pete]

I think its been a long time since we had a squad full of pride for jersey & this has nothing to do with where people are born, We have the likes of Stephen Ireland who don't want to play on the back the Roy Keane saga. The players are also basically only tourists in this country. Of course if they qualify for the World Cup that may all be forgotten but I can't see the buzz from previous WC coming back for a long time as seems people got this idea we could win it in & everything else is now just second best.

[Stuttgart88]

C'mon Ciaran, I threw you a lifebelt but you've just punctured it.

[tetsujin1979]

That post makes no sense. Whatsoever.

[EastTerracer]

Personally, I feel like I relate to the likes of Robbie Keane, Shay Given, Kevin Kilbane, and Damien Duff much more than I ever will with most of the rugby team. I really don't get this idea that they are millionaire mercenaries who don't care about playing for their country. Watch any of the football team after a defeat in a big game and the disappointment is etched all over their faces.

I'm someone who came from a football supporting background but went to a rugby school because my parents felt I'd get a better education out of it. Rugby is the sport of choice for these schools because you can include fat kids, thin kids, slow kids in a team and everyone can play without having to demonstrate any great ability at that level. I just never got it - I was spending my Sundays at Milltown (showing my age now) and trained with the only football team in the school.

Ciaran made a point about TV coverage of rugby being more than for the LoI. That was always true going way back to the 80s when Sports Stadium on Saturday afternoons showed live rugby games with no attendances when Rovers were dominating the domestic landscape. It said more about the production staff in RTE sport than it did about the relative popularity of the sports and it still does.

I've been going to football Internationals since I was 6 and nothing else even comes close. I think that's just me - I'm a football person pure and simple and I think there are more committed football fans in the country that there are committed rugby fans. I have no doubt the event-junkies will switch to rugby for a while but I still agree with some of the other posters that qualification for South Africa would result in a much greater level of hysteria and genuine Irish pride than we've seen this week.

[osarusan]

2) My point is Bowe moved because he wanted to advance his career and wasnt good enough for Leinster or Munster. He left the country for a place in a decent team not for lack of patriotism or money or whatever else you're trying to claim.

No doubt he did.


The rest of them haven't lived in this country since they were children. I'd never question the Irishness of someone like Shay Given or Kevin Doyle but for every one of them there's an Andy O Brien, Stephen Carr and despite my fondness for him as player, as an Irishman "pride" is the last thing I'd associate with Stephen Ireland.

And why did the above players leave Ireland as children? Was it not to advance their careers, for a place in a decent team?

I have no doubt that if there existed a competition in football where Irish club sides were as successful as Munster are in rugby (and the other provinces to their lesser extents) and with wages which were as competitive as Munster's are, we would see a lot more Irish football players based in this country.

Also, if the Heineken Cup competition was to end for some reason and Irish rugby was to go back to its somewhat impoverished AIL state while the rest of Europe continued as they are now, many Munster players would be off to more rewarding pastures.

[paul_oshea]

'The average Irish person is very patriotic and we do follow our sport very well, no matter what sport it is. 'I certainly was a keen fan of the rugby on Saturday and was very proud to see them lifting the trophy. It sent tingles down my spine."

andrews comment, love that.

however not so sure about this:

'I am sure likewise they will be watching our two games and wishing us all the best.'

Rugby in Ireland was on an even keel with the rest of europe from the start, when it went from being amateur to professional, and the IRFU reacted well to this, by keeping the feeders to province. They kept all their players at home and paid the same wages relative to other countries i.e. England and France, they made a point of keeping their best players in Ireland, and it has paid off 10 fold. Irish teams have been very successful in the Heineken cup, their wages have been as good as any other country and their chances of playing top class international rugby have also increased. Their is no reason for the players to leave IReland, and the IRFU must be commended for getting their house in order from the very start. This has never been the case with soccer in this country, I can remember my uncle(almost 70 now) telling me of when he wrote to matt busby as a very young child asking him to come over and watch him and give him a trial(:D), point is its been a goal of all irish youngsters for generations to play abroad in England. The FAI were never on a level footing and for things to change at this stage it would be very difficult. Hopefully it will come about that a team(s) from the LOI will progress to CL proper and then the FAI will capitalise on this no-end.

[amaccann]

I think it goes beyond the simple question of pride your jersey. Everyone playing for Ireland has pride, that can't be questioned.

Look, I feverishly support both soccer & rugby, but against the two sports I am slowly drifting away from soccer as a passion. Why? Because I am sick to the back teeth of the cheating, gamesmanship & physical / verbal abuse the referees get on a match by match basis. The concept of respect and decency has disappeared from the game - completely in some quarters - and it's hard for myself to respect and identify with a group of players who think nothing of abusing the laws for their own gain. Or manhandling the referee 'cos they can. Granted it's not widespread and the Irish players are as honest as they get these days in soccer, but it's hard to justify the attitudes. Talking about the "passion of the game" just can't cut it.

Contrast that with rugby, where you have men weighing in at 100Kg or so being told off like little schoolboys by a referee who commands the pitch. There's no cheating, abuse (hell there's no swearing as I recall Darcy getting threatened with a yellow card for his language) & the law is applied equally and ruthlessly. Even after the game you have citations to ensure some justice is done. It's just a different attitude altogether. Now granted, rugby's a potentially more dangerous sport so the laws have to be strict or else the injuries could be dreadful, but the on-pitch ref, linesmen & TV ref have genuine authority and are not afraid to show it. "Yes sir" chirps O'Driscoll when Ireland get blown up for a penalty. Does Robbie Keane display such composure (not picking on Keane specifically, just that he's a bit more mouthy of the Irish players).

The increased interest in rugby is showing more people the difference in attitudes between the two sports & soccer's coming off as a very petulant game full of whiners.

[bennocelt]

Earns you patriotism points. There's probably more players in the rugby team who can hold a conversation as gaelige than there are in the soccer team who can spell "taoiseach" correctly.


thats rubbish man - just proves they went to better (fee paying) schools where irish was taught well , and not with the odd punch like in my old school

as for football going down the pan (re another poster) - ie cheating and lack of respect - yes it is definitely - but to counter that why not then support grassroots football and the LOI - do somethiing about it then (and dont be a fairweather fan)
I like all sports but cant drop football as my passion - it cant be done, no matter what (even cheating italians winning the last world cup - i still follow the game)

[gspain]

I meant gaelscoils, my bad. And I'm quoting Luke Fitzgerald on an interview he gave with newstalk this very morning as the source. :p

Neither are gaelscoils. Just give up. You can't have any credibility left.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm someone who came from a football supporting background but went to a rugby school because my parents felt I'd get a better education out of it. Rugby is the sport of choice for these schools because you can include fat kids, thin kids, slow kids in a team and everyone can play without having to demonstrate any great ability at that level. I just never got it - I was spending my Sundays at Milltown (showing my age now) and trained with the only football team in the school.
I honestly think you could count every Rovers (or other LOI team) attendee from my school - Terenure - on the fingers of one hand. I was one of 3 that I knew of and it was a big school! Despite being a rugby school, Terenure was far "earthier" than the Dublin east coast rugby schools or Clongowes etc. I'd say Belvedere was similar.

My father's brother was a co-founder of Terenure RFC, my dad played for them and also played tennis for Ireland. He was told that if he left Terenure, a then junior club, for Lansdowne, he'd have been Ireland full back but he stayed. What happened me? I grew up instinctively with a love for football & golf! My dad would take me to Lakelands as a nipper and I'd turn my back to get a peek at the past pupils football team on the other pitches if they were playing!

I'm not knocking rubgy at all as I love watching it (except that the rugby crowd in UCD were awful) but I prefer the football. Not science, just instinct.

[paul_oshea]

Stutts I think its what you feel more comfortable with to be honest, IM sure you may have been a bit rebellious also as a kid and therefore going against the crowd i.e. supporting soccer, was something you did....i could be wrong but just a guess. Especially if you went to DCU for dyslexics, then your experience of ruggerheads and the mounties that follow them (or fall for them maybe...) would have put you off greatly. Did it upset you they got all the girls and not you?! :P :D

I experienced both having a brother and neighbours who all played rugby but were down to earth(and going out with an 'anville, who introduced me to "that scene"), and having the soccer crowd who were just easy going country lads who knew no better i spose, but naturally prefered soccer.

[Stuttgart88]

As I said, just instinct. But yes, the rugger lads getting the good looking girls still rankles. I was left with the fat goths with purple lipstic and knee high docs.

[elroy]

1) They're more Irish on the basis that all of the team were actually born in this country and don't have English accents. I'd never question their commitment but if Kevin Kilbane, Lee Carsley, Liam Lawerence, Sean St Ledger, Steven Reid and Clinton Morrison were a class better and had the opportunity to play for England over us a niggling voice in the back of my head tells me that they would. The rest of them haven't lived in this country since they were children. I'd never question the Irishness of someone like Shay Given or Kevin Doyle but for every one of them there's an Andy O Brien, Stephen Carr and despite my fondness for him as player, as an Irishman "pride" is the last thing I'd associate with Stephen Ireland.

2) My point is Bowe moved because he wanted to advance his career and wasnt good enough for Leinster or Munster. He left the country for a place in a decent team not for lack of patriotism or money or whatever else you're trying to claim.

3) "Proved wrong in it"? The only thing I was proved "wrong" in was I said teacht when I meant scoil. :confused:

1 Not all born in Ireland actually, Tom Court, Isaac Boss, Malcolm O'Kelly for example. I take your point on the players that would potentially choose to play for England above us if given the chance, however I would remove Kilbane from that list.

2 Fine, im not trying to claim anything other than you had made the point that they were more "worthy" of your support due to the fact they lived here. But could the exact same reasoning you made above not be pointed at Kevin Doyle, the Hunt brothers etc who didnt leave Ireland due to lack of patriotism more so to further their careers with a better team.

3 On proven wrong, I meant the large numbers of players apparently "fluent" in Irish, also as pointed out above neither are gaelscoils. Although your definition of fluent would seem to include a large part of the population. Again, I dont really see how this is a fair judgement of someones "Irishness" but anyways.

[Lionel Ritchie]

1) They're more Irish on the basis that all of the team were actually born in this country and don't have English accents.

Okay Ciaran - I wasn't taking your bait til now, but at this point you can certifiably go blow it out your hole.


I'd never question their commitment but if Kevin Kilbane, Lee Carsley, Liam Lawerence, Sean St Ledger, Steven Reid and Clinton Morrison were a class better and had the opportunity to play for England over us a niggling voice in the back of my head tells me that they would. So what? It' s called dual nationality. A lot of people have it these days.

Now -end of Sos bell is ringing ...away back to rangeanna dó in the gealteacht ...sorry, gealscoil with you.

[Macy]

Interesting that many who slag off the rugby crowd refer to football as soccer. I think that shows as much about their real allegiances as anything, and maybe contributes to the case that it's actually the GAA that are most worried about the rise of Rugby.

[endabob1]

Rugby in Ireland was on an even keel with the rest of europe from the start, when it went from being amateur to professional, and the IRFU reacted well to this, by keeping the feeders to province. They kept all their players at home and paid the same wages relative to other countries i.e. England and France, they made a point of keeping their best players in Ireland, and it has paid off 10 fold. Irish teams have been very successful in the Heineken cup, their wages have been as good as any other country and their chances of playing top class international rugby have also increased. Their is no reason for the players to leave IReland, and the IRFU must be commended for getting their house in order from the very start.

You're crediting the IRFU with a bit much, in fact they were slow to get into the professional era and Gatland's appointmend really signalled the re-structure of Irish Rugby along the lines of the All-Black structure where the players are centrally contracted and thus the National team callls the shots followed by the province and finally the clubs.
Contrast this structure with England & France where there is constant club v country disputes because the clubs hold the contracts & players could (and do) earn much larger salaries than they do in Ireland (or Wales which has a similar structure to us). BOD was busy flashing his knickers at all and sundry in France when his last IRFU contract was up for negotiation and has consistently commented on his interest in playing in France, yes there are cultural reasons but priamrily it would be for the same reasons that after the last RWC several All Blacks & Springboks turned up in the French League.

The truth is the IRFU are really only competing to keep a handfull of players and they are not suffering the outflow of 16 year old boys on an annual basis.
They are not YET in the position that the southern hemisphere sides are where they do not pick overseas players as this is their only weapon to compete with the lucrative salaries on offer in England & France in particular.
So even though the IRFU has a solid system in place at the moment, we are a small country and without continued investment, foreign money will start to lure our players away.
I agree there is a much longer way to go for the FAI to be able to keep players at home. Coaching to the level they would receive elsewhere in Europe, an acadamey system or an institute of sport (like the Australian model) are what is needed but they are light years away.

[Schumi]

it's actually the GAA that are most worried about the rise of Rugby.

That's the first thing I thought when I saw the figures at thye top of the thread. The GAA finals' viewing figures were about 70% of the big football and rugby internationals.

[Stuttgart88]

Interesting that many who slag off the rugby crowd refer to football as soccer. Ridiculous.

[Stuttgart88]

Interesting that many who slag off the rugby crowd refer to football as soccer. I think that shows as much about their real allegiances as anything Ridiculous.

[paul_oshea]

Ridiculous.

Stutts don't worry he is a bit out of touch with growing up on the West side of the IRish sea....:D

[EastTerracer]

rugby is actually huge in many countries that are not in the rugby limelight and coverage of our grand slam will be a lot wider than that clown would ever imagine

I won't argue that there are people outside the traditional rugby countries (the US, for example) who do take an interest in the sport and participate to a certain extent. However, it is far from being a global game.

In 2007 a Management Consulting firm did an in-depth study of the sport globally to try and highlight the problems facing the game. The full details are available here http://www.puttingrugbyfirst.com but I think the key point is captured below:

"According to the International Rugby Board (IRB), there are more than four million registered players worldwide, but more than half are from England and over threequarters (3.3 million) come from the eight Foundation Unions overall. Meanwhile, there are less than a quarter of a million players in the ten most populous nations of the world (China, India, USA, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Russia, Nigeria, and Japan).

Television audience data for the 2007 World Cup final, between South Africa and England, shows that 97% of the 33 million total viewers came from the Foundation Unions – with just half a million viewers of the final spread amongst all the remaining nations where it was shown live. There are 115 members of the IRB – but rugby is evidently not particularly popular in most of them."

When compared with truly global sporting events like the football World Cup or the Olympics these figures show that rugby remains a regional game with two main catchment areas (SA/Australia/NZ and the 5 Nations). In all the other countries (Argentina, Italy, Romania etc.) its a minority game which doesn't attract large television audiences.

The International Rugby Board consistently peddles the line that an audience of 4 billion people watched the rugby world cup but that is a cumulative number for all the games in the finals tournament and I believe it is based on the "potential" audience for the games and not the actual number of viewers.

[jbyrne]

good post east terracer but for myres to compare our grand slam win to skiing is ridiculous and thats what my point was. i would still maintain that rugby in countries like argentina, georgia, japan, russia, canada etc is getting very popular despite the fact that they are not (with the exception of argentina) in the rugby limelight

[EastTerracer]

jbyrne - fair point, I don't have any time for Myers and his attention-seeking either.

[John83]

I'd never question Kilbanes commitment to our team, he's the most committed guy we have. But I don't know, he grew up in England, chose to work in England and will almost certainly live the rest of his life after his playing career in England. I know its a thing from older generations that it was acceptable to be in love with a country that you've never been to (especially if you're American on March 17th) but I just don't get that, you end up where you want to be. And for Kevin thats the north of England. I can't praise him enough for his professionalism though.
When Kilbane was a teenager, he was pressured by his manager to declare for England - one of their youth teams had come knocking. He flat out refused. He was Irish. He could have actually been as good as Zidane, and he'd still be playing for us. You can put that thought out of your head for him.

[Torn-Ado]

having been in cardiff last sat it reminded me of how our football occasions used to be. loyal, hardcore and colourful support was to be seen by both sides. the whole day in cardiff was a massive sporting occasion and this was all because of the match that was in it. if our footballers can achieve similar relative success over the next few months then football will be right up there again in the eyes of the nation.
unfortunately for the last few years our football team have underperformed and appeared to lack a little care and passion. the apparent current apathy towards our team by the general public will disappear with a few good results over the next few games

Holland at Lansdowne in 2001 was probably the last time.

[mypost]

against the two sports I am slowly drifting away from soccer as a passion. Why? Because I am sick to the back teeth of the cheating, gamesmanship & physical / verbal abuse the referees get on a match by match basis. The concept of respect and decency has disappeared from the game - completely in some quarters - and it's hard for myself to respect and identify with a group of players who think nothing of abusing the laws for their own gain. Or manhandling the referee 'cos they can. Granted it's not widespread and the Irish players are as honest as they get these days in soccer, but it's hard to justify the attitudes. Talking about the "passion of the game" just can't cut it.

Contrast that with rugby, where you have men weighing in at 100Kg or so being told off like little schoolboys by a referee who commands the pitch. There's no cheating, abuse (hell there's no swearing as I recall Darcy getting threatened with a yellow card for his language) & the law is applied equally and ruthlessly. Even after the game you have citations to ensure some justice is done. It's just a different attitude altogether. Now granted, rugby's a potentially more dangerous sport so the laws have to be strict or else the injuries could be dreadful, but the on-pitch ref, linesmen & TV ref have genuine authority and are not afraid to show it. "Yes sir" chirps O'Driscoll when Ireland get blown up for a penalty.

You can say the same about golf, tennis, cricket, motorsport in relation to football.

Despite that, more people can play football than drive racing cars, or complete a round of golf in less than 72 strokes. Football is also considerably more exciting than any of the above, or rugby.

[bennocelt]

Interesting that many who slag off the rugby crowd refer to football as soccer. I think that shows as much about their real allegiances as anything, and maybe contributes to the case that it's actually the GAA that are most worried about the rise of Rugby.

I was thinking this myself too :)

[gspain]

At primary level, just because its in your culture doesn't mean everyone went to only one school. :rolleyes:
I'm quoting Luke Fitzgerald on this, I'm sure he knows a lot more on the subject than you do.


On this thread

You have used false tv viewing figures for the Ireland v Cyprus game comparing to rugby and GAA

Claimed Jerry flannery and Paul O'Connell were from the gaeltacht (there isn't any in Limerick btw)

Then claimed their school St Munchins and Ard Scoil Ris are gaelscoils (they are not)

Now next time you have a drink with your buddy Luke ask him the gaelscoils they went to at primary level?

so how about you quit trolling here and go somewhere else.

[Drumcondra 69er]

When Kilbane was a teenager, he was pressured by his manager to declare for England - one of their youth teams had come knocking. He flat out refused. He was Irish. He could have actually been as good as Zidane, and he'd still be playing for us. You can put that thought out of your head for him.

You can add Lee Carsley to that list as well, he's Irish through and through and grew up in the Irish clubs in the midlands. As for Ciaran dropping Stephen Carr's name into the mix I'm baffled by that one.

Having just read the entire thread it's now obvious to me why Ciaran has, as long as he's been posting, come up with the litany of inaccuracies, crazy opinion and general bufoonery that has begotten his reputation. He's clearly a rugby fan with too much time on his hands who enjoys the reaction he gets from football fans to his trolling and wind up's. The fact that the widely available viewing figures for the Georgia game were left out of his initial post undermines his entire argument straight away in any case.

[amaccann]

You can say the same about golf, tennis, cricket, motorsport in relation to football.

Despite that, more people can play football than drive racing cars, or complete a round of golf in less than 72 strokes. Football is also considerably more exciting than any of the above, or rugby.

What has the number of people playing the sport got to do with it? Or excitement? My point is purely down to the public's perception of the two sports based on fair play and basic sportsmanship.

My point is that while footie has slowly slipped down the slope of fair-play & in my mind become more and more a cynical sport of gamesmanship, rugby has maintained what the codgers on RTE like to call the "amateur era philosophy".

For the record, I find rugby's thrills far different to football's. Not better, not less, just different.

[Shilts]

I'm from Cork so I can't speak for the rest of the country.
Soccer or football will always be the game of the common man because Rugby in spite of the hype is for middle/upper class people.
All the Irish Internationals in Cork come from 1 of 2 schools. CBC and PBC. These 2 fee paying schools provide OUR rugby representatives. I can not remember the last time a corkman from outside of these two schools went on to represent the rugby international team. Answers on a postcard please - it would be interesting.

This year in the munster schools cup final, CBC beat Rockwell a repeat of the final 100 years ago. (In Leinster, Blackrock won again for the one millionth time). Nothing is changing.

In Cork it seems that rugby hierarchy want us to support the teams but will not allow 'common folk' to play with the teams. There is no effort to set up a schools team from a disadvantaged area. Whereas there will be plenty of football teams in these areas who fill the sporting need.

I don't see the rugby teams, Munster and Ireland as representing me. Best of luck to them in their competitions but I don't feel that anybody can go from Knocknaheeny or Mayfield Community Schools and play for Ireland, unlike other sports.

This may be different in other parts of the country but in Cork the 'old school tie' brigade are very much in evidence.

[elroy]

I'm from Cork so I can't speak for the rest of the country.
Soccer or football will always be the game of the common man because Rugby in spite of the hype is for middle/upper class people.
All the Irish Internationals in Cork come from 1 of 2 schools. CBC and PBC. These 2 fee paying schools provide OUR rugby representatives. I can not remember the last time a corkman from outside of these two schools went on to represent the rugby international team. Answers on a postcard please - it would be interesting.

This year in the munster schools cup final, CBC beat Rockwell a repeat of the final 100 years ago. (In Leinster, Blackrock won again for the one millionth time). Nothing is changing.

In Cork it seems that rugby hierarchy want us to support the teams but will not allow 'common folk' to play with the teams. There is no effort to set up a schools team from a disadvantaged area. Whereas there will be plenty of football teams in these areas who fill the sporting need.

I don't see the rugby teams, Munster and Ireland as representing me. Best of luck to them in their competitions but I don't feel that anybody can go from Knocknaheeny or Mayfield Community Schools and play for Ireland, unlike other sports.

This may be different in other parts of the country but in Cork the 'old school tie' brigade are very much in evidence.

I too from Cork, pretty much agree with all of the above.
However, I went to college in Limerick and it was only then that I saw young lads playing rugby on the streets, in the parks etc as opposed to football or gaa.
Just one point that I would like to add in relation to the above, I feel one of the main reasons Munster has been such a success from a level of supporter point of view is that it is a very well marketed product/brand. Also it has numerous individuals on the team who at least give the impression that they are from normal ordinary less privileged backgrounds like the rest of us (ie no private schooling etc etc) e.g POC, John Hayes, Flannery etc etc. The same could not be said for the Leinster team for example.