Soccer International vs Rugby International [Archive]

OwlsFan

03/03/2009, 1:53 PM

Well, I attended my first rugby international ever last Saturday and I thought I'd comment on what differences I perceived between that and a soccer match. I was in the Hogan stand which is where I also view the soccer games, albeit in the lower tier.

1) Price of the ticket. Rugby €95.00 vs soccer €75.00 so around 25% more expensive.

2) Fewer punters wear colours and certainly far less scarves.

3) "Ulster" flag flying beside the Tri-colour. I am aware why but it was new to me.

4) Ireland's Call - enough said.

5) Green flags for all seats in the lower tiers were a great idea and looked impressive when being waved. Didn't see too much of them though during the game.

6) Drums building up the tension before the game just before the teams came on to the field - excellent.

7) No segregation among the fans and the loud singing of God Save the Queen by those around me raised a few hackles. Comments to O'Driscoll "Get up Paddy" when he lay prostrate after another late tackle caused me to exchange a few words with the speaker. Another Irishman nearby told the same guy where he could stick his "sweet chariot". Can't enjoy a game as much when rival supporters all around.

8) Irish support intermittent and certainly no way as good for an Irish soccer international - especially if it was a soccer match against England.

9) Enjoyed the result but not much else about the day to be frank. I went with preconceived ideas about what a rugby match would be like and I wasn't too suprised by anything I saw. Lots of "Johnnys" and "Nigels" wearing their tweed jackets. Some hardcore supporters of course, including a few in Munster jerseys, and I wish the team all the best but it will probably be my last rugger game for a while.

Bring on Bulgaria!

jbyrne

03/03/2009, 2:32 PM

same pathetic annoying PA as the football. unbelievable idiot

OwlsFan

03/03/2009, 2:35 PM

same pathetic annoying PA as the football. unbelievable idiot

He even got the English score wrong at one stage :rolleyes:

Helen Donegan

03/03/2009, 2:37 PM

I went to the match in Rome a few weeks ago, fantastic atmosphere and we all had a great time. Had to suffer "Ireland's Call" but apart from that we supported the team and sang throughout :p Being surrounded by Italians is totally different:D

Claret Murph

03/03/2009, 2:39 PM

I found it very interesting how you looked at it Owl as I have only been to one myself in 1999 in Lansdowne V Austraila .

For me at the time the thing that got me was that the rugby boys were far more relaxed and very little tension around , where as the football you always feel there is an edge about the place before during and after the game .

DeLorean

03/03/2009, 2:42 PM

Interesting post. I have been at two rugby matches in my time, both nearly as unlikely as each other and neither qualifies me in any way to compare to the soccer. The first was that crowd in Waterford in the AIB Division 2 or 3 or something, Waterpark I think they're called and I can't even remember who they were playing, only they lost. The second was the Heineken Cup match between Biarritz and Calvisano this year.

On top of that useless information I would just like to comment on the fact that the atmosphere seemed to disappoint you a bit or at least not surpass your expectations. The crowd in every sport I think responds to whats happening on the pitch. I thought the atmosphere for the soccer intls against Wales and even Georgia to a far lesser extent was fairly tame and the fact that it was England the rugby match was against might not be as much of a factor when they play them every year and natually loses it's novelty a bit. Having said that I'd say anybody that was at the match 2 yrs ago would disagree strongly.

jbyrne

03/03/2009, 2:53 PM

He even got the English score wrong at one stage :rolleyes:

for the 2nd match in a row! also, for the 2nd game in a row, prematurely thought the match was over when it wasnt and announced so to all in the stadium. complete twit

magnumpi

03/03/2009, 3:29 PM

i've never been to a rugby match at croker - could never get a ticket, but was at england v ireland at twickenham in 2005.

2 things to point out from that:

1) a huge amount of england fans congratulating us on the final whistle.
2) allowed to bring pints out to your seat.

don't know what everyone's problem is with ireland's call. its a great song that embodies what a country playing sport is all about. it shouldn't be used for soccer, because the north have their own team, but for rugby its perfect.

am absolutely galled that an english fan had the nerve to shout "get up paddy?" - i suppose at a rugby match there is less chance of getting a slap, but someone should've done something.

was all that talk in 2006 about a "perfect atmosphere" and mutual respect all bull then??

anyway, the atmosphere at matches always seems far better than at recent soccer matches (home), and i'd love to go to a game.

that said, give me World Cup qualification over grand slam anyday.

Youths4Ever

03/03/2009, 3:53 PM

I am sorry Owl's Fan but people like you annoy me it was your first game and yet you where able to draw all these conclusions you need to attend more games but can make such assumptions. I have said this to many people in the past about LOI

I attend several rugby matches throughout the year local club, Leinster and Internationals (this year and last autumn internationals and French game could not get ticket for England) The crowd feed off the match the quality of the match just as in soccer and game was not great and the crowd where silenced after 20 mins.

French game IMO had great atmosphere as good rugby on display helped. I have attended several international soccer games in Croke Park and the atmosphere has been excellent at times but dead at times as well.

As for no segregation normally no need for it as the fans seem to get on along fine expect it seems you had one idiot sitting near you that got the reaction he was looking for. I have been surrounded by English fans at rugby games before and had no trouble from them or any other fans.

On top of that useless information I would just like to comment on the fact that the atmosphere seemed to disappoint you a bit or at least not surpass your expectations. The crowd in every sport I think responds to whats happening on the pitch. I thought the atmosphere for the soccer intls against Wales and even Georgia to a far lesser extent was fairly tame and the fact that it was England the rugby match was against might not be as much of a factor when they play them every year and natually loses it's novelty a bit. Having said that I'd say anybody that was at the match 2 yrs ago would disagree strongly.

exactly

jok1

03/03/2009, 3:54 PM

magnumpi

03/03/2009, 4:02 PM

Would agree with you Owlsfan, went to 1 in LR and one in CP, got free tickets, would never go again even if I got free tickets, totally stuckup crowd and no place for any self respecting Northsider! Too many hipflasks and very little singing.

what i would have given for a hip flask and [outside the SS], some singing at recent ireland soccer matches!!!!

DeLorean

03/03/2009, 4:15 PM

I always find it a bit strange the way the soccer crowd frown upon the rugby fans for being rich/snobby/posh etc. It's a bit hypocritical to say the least. There is obviously an element of this in the rugby support ie.Dublin 4 crowd or whatever but so what? I would be more of a soccer man myself (by a distance) but I do enjoy watching the international and Munster matches. I think some people think that you have to choose one or the other!!

don't know what everyone's problem is with ireland's call.

I think it fashionable to give out about it!!

Stuttgart88

03/03/2009, 4:32 PM

I think there's a decent element of crossover. I used to try and get to both rugby and football internationals but truth be told I only get properly worked up for a football international. Football games are more important events for me, rugby games are great if I can get to them, grand on TV if I can't. Context changes obviously.

That said, I was gutted when France beat us in 2007 at Croker but I felt that many around me just weren't that bothered. Game over, head to pub, no big deal. I think that's more of a trait among the rugby support. There's a decent element at the rugby just because it's the fashionable place to be, including a fair part of the female contingent. I don't think anyone can say following Ireland in football is fashionable at the moment!

I think the rugby boys think that they generate a better atmosphere. As said above, at a ground like Croker the crowd feeds off the quality of the game. Tension can cause people to sit quietly on their seats only getting vocal when there's some sort of catalyst. Rugby can induce those catlytic moments alright but there have been long silences at any rugger games I've been at lately.

I'd say the rugby team has an advantage over the football team in that almost every game is against a top class side. The football team has to earn the right to a big night against a big team by getting results against the lesser teams. I also think the cost of defeat is usually bigger in football - the 6 Nations comes around every year and WC qualification is guaranteed, only the seeding being up for grabs and even then only on occasion. I'll be very surprised if the Bulgaria atmosphere isn't very good.

Both games have their moments. England at home in 2007 was special, as was Twickenham in 2004, but then again, I'd say the Dutch game in 2001 was better than any rugby game I've ever been at.

The atmosphere "back in the day" was better at both. Michael Kiernan's drop goal in 1985 was a great day, as were all the Italia 90 qualifiers and sporadic great nights / days over the years.

I look forward to the return to Lansdowne.

The Fly

03/03/2009, 4:54 PM

don't know what everyone's problem is with ireland's call. its a great song that embodies what a country playing sport is all about. it shouldn't be used for soccer, because the north have their own team, but for rugby its perfect.

am absolutely galled that an english fan had the nerve to shout "get up paddy?" - i suppose at a rugby match there is less chance of getting a slap, but someone should've done something.

I don't think that people have a problem with Ireland's Call in principle - I certainly don't. It's just that the song is rubbish, but then what more can one expect from Phil Coulter. Awful. Why didn't they ask U2 to compose an anthem - they've had plenty of practise.

Second point - at the very least, the c**t should have received a bloody good slap. I have administered a few in my time, only when called a Paddy of course! ;)

Scram

03/03/2009, 5:01 PM

Any international for me is worth attending, especially if we have a chance to beat the English.

Most disappointing thing is for a nation with such a history of "singing at the drop of a hat" that we can't seem to sing at al when it comes to games. Even the Engerrlish fans sing more than us......we should not be ashamed to sing "All of to Dublin in the Green....etc. etc. especially if the Engerrlish can sing "Rule Brittannia" etc.

More singing please, whatever the event. Personally, I can't say what's the best but it's hard to beat Hill 16 at a Dubs game (with the exception of the minority of thugs who throw cans and plastic bottles etc.)

I gues sita ll depends on the perforamnce.

Cowboy

03/03/2009, 7:42 PM

don't know what everyone's problem is with ireland's call. its a great song that embodies what a country playing sport is all about. .

Take the word " Ireland" from the song and it could be about pretty much any country on the planet. It is not and never will be a "great" song.

paul_oshea

03/03/2009, 8:36 PM

Take the word " Ireland" from the song and it could be about pretty much any country on the planet. It is not and never will be a "great" song.

from the mighty glens of antrim, from the rugged hills of galway, from the walls of limerick to dublin town, from the 4 proud provinces of ireland?!

eirebhoy

03/03/2009, 9:31 PM

Were the tickets for Rugby €95 for all the seating area's? All I can find is that €95 for stand, €38 for Hill 16:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0204/1233713217625.html

Thought the atmosphere on Saturday was rubbish and it certainly wouldn't be as quiet as that for the soccer equivalent against England in a match Ireland never once fell behind in.

The Fly

03/03/2009, 9:41 PM

It is very hard to compare the atmosphere at a rugby match relative to that of a football match. Rugby is a far more complex game than football, with a considerable appreciation of the various rules and laws needed to fully appreciate it. I have been at rugby internationals where the atmosphere was certainly comparable to that of a football match, even though football would be my first love.

The match against the old enemy on Saturday, whilst I was not at it, I appreciated to great extent. While it was not entertaining as a spectacle, because the match was not a fluid attacking one, it was nonetheless enjoyable from a tactical, defensive viewpoint.

*For a different kind of atmosphere, try going to a Formula 1 race, (I'd recommend the Italian GP at Monza). It's kinda like the atmosphere at a sporting fixture mixed with that at a music festival.

Conormack

03/03/2009, 9:44 PM

finbarrk

03/03/2009, 9:47 PM

I was in the upper Davin and it was €90. Poor value. Tha atmosphere was terrible I thought but the game wasn't great so that reflected on the crowd. I have attended the last five internationals thet we have played them in soccer and there is obviously no comparison in the atmosphere.

Cowboy

03/03/2009, 9:47 PM

Well now you know i dont know all the words.(just as well as i will never sing it) It sounds like a generic anthem written in 5 mins. I heard a guy on the radio who made the serious point that if "National anthem software existed it would throw out something like Irelands call". If the original anthem was ok by Willie John for all those years then why change.

from the mighty glens of antrim, from the rugged hills of galway, from the walls of limerick to dublin town, from the 4 proud provinces of ireland?!

The Fly

03/03/2009, 9:54 PM

Lads as someone whos attended games at croke park for all sports including soccer, rugby and gaa as atmosphere goes between soccer and rugby at croke park, rugby wins. been to most soccer and rugby games at croke park and it saddens me to say it as soccer would be my number 1 but since both were moved there the noise at rugby has been more consistant than soccer. dont know what it is but theres defo a difference. ???

The fact that there is far more potential and momentum behind the rugby team, and there has been for some time, has a great deal to do with it, in my opinion.

The rugby team overtook the football team's place in the nation's psyche some years ago. Qualification for the World Cup and the subsequent European Championships will bring them level pegging. For me though, rugby will only continue to grow in popularity in our country, crucially because of the professional and successful existance of the Provinces.

However I do see it chipping away at the GAA rather than football - which isn't a bad thing. ;)

EastTerracer

04/03/2009, 12:48 AM

The rugby team overtook the football team's place in the nation's psyche some years ago.

I think this needs to be questioned. In certain parts of the country (and on RTE) it may appear that Rugby has overtaken football but if you go into quite a few pubs in Dublin and elsewhere in the country on the day of a six nations game there is a fair chance you will find lads crowded round the television watching the Premiership. The RTE viewing figures for sporting events is probably a fair indication of the population's preferences and in this regard I believe the competitive football games usually draw consistently larger figures.

bennocelt

04/03/2009, 7:07 AM

.

don't know what everyone's problem is with ireland's call. its a great song that embodies what a country playing sport is all about. it shouldn't be used for soccer, because the north have their own team, but for rugby its perfect.

.

cause its rubbish:rolleyes: why cant they play danny boy maybe

anyway i wouldnt go to a rugby game even if i got free tickets - jeez

Ash

04/03/2009, 8:01 AM

Wouldnt be one for rugby but I was at the World Cup games in Australia a few years
back. Hadnt a clue of the rules (still dont) but it was good excitment and craic but
just didnt catch me the way footie does.

Only ever been to 1 rugby match in Lansdowne, Ireland v Argentina about 4-5 years
ago. We were in the terrace for it and I've seen more athmosphere and banter watching
an Athlone Town training session!

Was at Ireland v Scotland in Croker last year, bit more excitement but nothing to write
home about. Only went as I was offered a free ticket and I reckon the only way I'll go
to another game is if I get a freebie and the game doesnt clash with a Town match (or
even training session!)

magnumpi

04/03/2009, 8:12 AM

slightly off topic, but it would be great if we could have George Hook waxing lyrical about the soccer team with Giles and Bill, instaed of having to listen to dunphy's poison.

reder

04/03/2009, 9:04 AM

Have attended a few Ireland rugby matches in my time. Went to the Wales game in Croker last year at the atmosphere was terrible. The atmosphere at that game on Saturday should have been brilliant given that the team is really on a roll and likely to win the championship.

Bulgaria will be light years ahead of any Ireland rugby game.

Also, someone or more than one person should have knocked that fella's block off for his paddy comment. I hate having opposition fans sitting in the same section as me.

OwlsFan

04/03/2009, 9:30 AM

I am sorry Owl's Fan but people like you annoy me it was your first game and yet you where able to draw all these conclusions you need to attend more games but can make such assumptions. I

You're obviously easily annoyed. There were very few "conclusions" drawn. They were mostly observations based on probably my one and only rugby match, some positive, some negative. You didn't state what "conclusions" annoyed you. I can't make them after more games because it is unlikely I'll be at anymore:confused:

Someone mentioned the price was cheaper on Hill 16. True, but the FAI can't open Hill 16 due to UEFA rules so you can't compare there.

Sligo Hornet

04/03/2009, 11:13 AM

You're obviously easily annoyed. There were very few "conclusions" drawn. They were mostly observations based on probably my one and only rugby match, some positive, some negative. You didn't state what "conclusions" annoyed you. I can't make them after more games because it is unlikely I'll be at anymore:confused:

Someone mentioned the price was cheaper on Hill 16. True, but the FAI can't open Hill 16 due to UEFA rules so you can't compare there.

Very true Beaky......at least it took over 100 posts before you annoyed me.....but eh, you got there in the end!:D

OwlsFan

04/03/2009, 3:49 PM

Insect :p Back to your hive.

elroy

04/03/2009, 4:56 PM

The RTE viewing figures for sporting events is probably a fair indication of the population's preferences and in this regard I believe the competitive football games usually draw consistently larger figures.

Both the Ireland Georgia game and the Ireland England game peaked at approx 1.1m viewers which in my opinion throws football in a great light. From a rugby perspective you dont get much bigger a game than England at home. Although the Georgia game althou a big game for a genuine Irish supporter would not have attracted the same level of attention for the "casual" viewer.

eirebhoy

04/03/2009, 6:01 PM

€90 for the Davin is a disgrace. €40 more than football prices which is already a rip off.

Stuttgart88

04/03/2009, 6:16 PM

Both the Ireland Georgia game and the Ireland England game peaked at approx 1.1m viewers which in my opinion throws football in a great light. From a rugby perspective you dont get much bigger a game than England at home. Although the Georgia game althou a big game for a genuine Irish supporter would not have attracted the same level of attention for the "casual" viewer.Elroy, where can you get the viewing figures, both recent and going way back?

eirebhoy

04/03/2009, 6:43 PM

Elroy, where can you get the viewing figures, both recent and going way back?
This site gives you the top 20 every week:
http://www.medialive2.com/television/

Ireland - Georgia had a peak of over 1mil if I remember.

Conormack

04/03/2009, 8:49 PM

For me though, rugby will only continue to grow in popularity in our country, crucially because of the professional and successful existance of the Provinces.

However I do see it chipping away at the GAA rather than football - which isn't a bad thing. ;)

50,000 showed up for our w.c.q against geor. 70,000 showed up for a gaa national league game... we'd want to start chipping soon though

jbyrne

05/03/2009, 7:41 AM

70,000 showed up for a gaa national league game

a once off where ticket prices were €15 / €5 if i remember correctly and there was a fireworks display on the night. how many will be in parnell park for the dubs next home lge game?

SUB of the day

05/03/2009, 12:29 PM

a once off where ticket prices were €15 / €5 if i remember correctly and there was a fireworks display on the night. how many will be in parnell park for the dubs next home lge game?

600 in Pairc ui Chaoimh for Galway game.......

Wolfie

05/03/2009, 12:38 PM

Lots of "Johnnys" and "Nigels" wearing their tweed jackets.

Presented with the stereotypical Rugby fan - they could have been England or Ireland fans. ;)

reder

05/03/2009, 12:48 PM

50,000 showed up for our w.c.q against geor. 70,000 showed up for a gaa national league game... we'd want to start chipping soon though

Yes but the international side gets 50K+ for all games including friendlies. That fixture wouldnt have even been held in Croker but for the razzle-dazzle fireworks. Most only went so they could say that they were there for the event.

From my recollection and very VERY limited knowledge of GAA, league games atrract very small crowds. (with the exception of finals.)

The Fly

05/03/2009, 12:57 PM

I know this is unrelated to the thread title but...................

My father and brother were at the match, in the lower Cusack stand at about the try-line. (I got first choice on the tickets and choose France). Anyway, when it came to the anthems you can only imagine my father's/brother's consternation when GSTQ was belted out with gusto around them. This turned to shock, :eek:, horror, bewilderment, :confused:, dumbfoundedness, :(................................................ ..................when they turned round to find people in Ireland tops singing it.

P.S.........ran out of smilies.

Maroon 7

05/03/2009, 1:13 PM

Yes but the international side gets 50K+ for all games including friendlies. That fixture wouldnt have even been held in Croker but for the razzle-dazzle fireworks. Most only went so they could say that they were there for the event.

From my recollection and very VERY limited knowledge of GAA, league games atrract very small crowds. (with the exception of finals.)

GAA league games can get very big crowds depending on how attractive the fixture is. Certainly I've been at league games with crowds of anything from 6K to 12K. Less attractive games might only get something between 1K to 2K. It all depends really. The recent Tyrone v Kerry league game had an attendance just under 12K I think.

DeLorean

05/03/2009, 1:17 PM

I know this is unrelated to the thread title but...................

My father and brother were at the match, in the lower Cusack stand at about the try-line. (I got first choice on the tickets and choose France). Anyway, when it came to the anthems you can only imagine my father's/brother's consternation when GSTQ was belted out with gusto around them. This turned to shock, :eek:, horror, bewilderment, :confused:, dumbfoundedness, .................................................. ................when they turned round to find people in Ireland tops singing it.

P.S.........ran out of smilies.

(read with a cockney accent...) Well it is a quality tune mate!!:D

SUB of the day

05/03/2009, 5:24 PM

The Fly

05/03/2009, 5:55 PM

....most Ulster fans would consider themselves British, hence when it comes to the "6 nations" their team would be Ireland, but GSTQ would remain their anthem, fair enough I suppose, but in my opinion a 7 nation tournament would reflect the actualities.This is probably one of the major reasons that I connect with the ROI football team, and retain a sense of detachment from IRFU 15.

I live in NI and do know that strangely enough. I didn't mention it as...........well...........it's obvious. :rolleyes:

On your second point, about the semantics of how many nations make up the tournament. By extension of your point, it could be 4, as the UK may constitute one nation. This would also reflect 'actualities.'

SUB, on your last point while obviously you are entitled to your view, I believe it to be wrong - for want of a better word.
The Republic and NI should not become distanced, rather they should become more engaged with each other. If people have a sense of detachment from the national rugby side, that's fine - if it is because it's rugby, not because the side involves a NI contingent in terms of players and support, and therefore reflects this in anthems/flags etc...
In the final analysis, this will lead us nowhere.

SUB of the day

05/03/2009, 6:33 PM

kingdom hoop

05/03/2009, 7:28 PM

The recent Tyrone v Kerry league game had an attendance just under 12K I think.

Yeah that was one of the few League games where the official attendance was announced. A lot of grounds don't or can't do it for the League. The attendance was 11,100 or so, around that anyway. Fairly decent crowd. Most of them were fairly quiet thankfully! :D

I think because there is little hype around the League people think the crowds are very poor, but they're actually fairly respectable most of the time, and occasionally border on impressively high if a county's going well or had a good year last year. Of course good attendances aren't true across the board, and for weaker teams attendances can be pitiful. Kerry probably offers a good contrast: the hurlers would be lucky to break into triple figures, while anything less than 5k would be a major surprise for a home football match.

Incidentally the Dublin - Kerry (regulation) League match has been moved from Parnell Park to Croker. I don't know what crowd they expect but it must be in the region of 30k to make it worthwhile. Will be interesting to see how many go when there are no fireworks! Gooch should be sufficiently dazzling to draw the crowd I suppose. :)

The Fly

05/03/2009, 9:16 PM

Fair points all fly, but what was obvious to you, was less apparent to those who were shocked by lads in green singing GSTQ, hence the suitability of forums like this.Regarding the 6-7-4 nations tournament,the two teams from this island serve their fans and traditions well in association football.I feel an equivalent in rugby football would be more representative of those same ideals, as well as sparing us the dirge that is Irelands call.

It wouldn't have been as humourous to have pointed it out.
Obviously Unionists in NI will sing it as it represents them. That is fine but it is still initially 'shocking' and bewildering to see people in Ireland tops singing GSTQ. You have a gut reaction first, then you think about it later. D'ya know what I mean.

On your second point about the respective football sides, 45% of NI's population would support ROI. I live in NI and I am an Irish citizen hence I naturally support the team (ROI) that represents the nation of which I am a citizen, being no different from someone from say Dublin or Cork. The NI side, at least in fan support, represents almost wholly one side of the community in NI.
How could you possibly want to see this situation replicated in rugby? :eek: :confused: (see what I did there :D)

The problem with Ireland's Call is not the principle, it's the anthem's composition - i.e. it's crap.
GSTQ is the British national anthem, not NI's anthem. Hence the obvious problem with it, not to mention the equally pertinent problem of Irish citizens/people possibly identifying with it. In the words of a certain former political figure - Never!.......Never!.......Never!