Soccer International vs Rugby International

[Stuttgart88]

Me neither jbyrne. Impressive record btw. Respect. I've been at dozens of RU internationals too but nowhere near that many.

I don't mind Ireland's call. It is what it is. It's a bit naff and artificial but the whole situation is a bit goofed up. I say live with it.

[DeLorean]

Me neither jbyrne. Impressive record btw. Respect. I've been at dozens of RU internationals too but nowhere near that many.

I don't mind Ireland's call. It is what it is. It's a bit naff and artificial but the whole situation is a bit goofed up. I say live with it.

Ya it's really not that big a deal is it:confused:

[Cowboy]

Ya it's really not that big a deal is it:confused:

Obviously it is for some people including myself who have strongly held opinions on the subject.

[DeLorean]

Obviously it is for some people includinmg myself who have strongly held opinions on the subject.

I'd be more concerned with what happens after kick off but to each their own

[Conormack]

Yes but the international side gets 50K+ for all games including friendlies. That fixture wouldnt have even been held in Croker but for the razzle-dazzle fireworks. Most only went so they could say that they were there for the event.

From my recollection and very VERY limited knowledge of GAA, league games atrract very small crowds. (with the exception of finals.)


true league games get nothing. . championship is were the crowds are.. the point im making is that instead of hoping to chip away at others sports, weres the fans who yrs back packed landsdowne out. . and the thousands that tried getting tickets for those games were are they now.

[Gather round]

On your second point about the respective football sides, 45% of NI's population would support ROI. I live in NI and I am an Irish citizen hence I naturally support the team (ROI) that represents the nation of which I am a citizen, being no different from someone from say Dublin or Cork. The NI side, at least in fan support, represents almost wholly one side of the community in NI.
How could you possibly want to see this situation replicated in rugby? :eek: :confused: (see what I did there :D)

Because it might possibly be an improvement on the present situation where the Ireland rugby team and IRFU

a) plays almost all its games, including low-key friendlies, as it has for 50 years or so, only in the Republic of Ireland. Despite availability of an adequate occasional venue in Belfast

b) treats its one game in Belfast during this period effectively as an away game (ie by not playing the national anthem)

c) as a result of a) and b) gives the impression that it's a team for the RoI only.

[backstothewall]

Because it might possibly be an improvement on the present situation where the Ireland rugby team and IRFU

a) plays almost all its games, including low-key friendlies, as it has for 50 years or so, only in the Republic of Ireland. Despite availability of an adequate occasional venue in Belfast

b) treats its one game in Belfast during this period effectively as an away game (ie by not playing the national anthem)

c) as a result of a) and b) gives the impression that it's a team for the RoI only.

Just back from Ravenhill tonight. Good win v Glasgow, up to 5th. :D Got soaked mind.

In my experience of the people who actually go to Ravenhill they don't care about any of the crap like that people have tried to make for Ulster, and just wish people could leave them alone.

As a republican I would prefer if they didn't fly the butchers apron, but like most I don't go there for a political protest, I go there to have a laugh and watch the game. I would much prefer seeing a home win to seeing it come down.

I went tonight wearing a Celtic scarf (not to cause a fuss, but because it was freezing) without a word said by anyone, which is how it should be. I doubt i would have got the same reaction at Windsor Park, which is a large part of why more and more nationalists are finding themselves at Ravenhill. It is a fairly neutral venue, and has a friendly atmosphere.


The anthem issue was just the latest example of the Ulster branch being used as a political football by people with no interest in the game. In my experience most rugby fans were happy to have Ireland in Belfast, and as Northern Ireland has no national anthem what else could the IRFU do? The game was hijacked by politicians trying to bring about the bizarre situation of Ireland using what is recognized by the rugby world as England anthem (UK anthem, blah blah blah I know, but ask yourself why Scotland and Wales don't use it). The game was going to be shown around the world, GSTQ was always a non-runner.

I doubt that Ireland will be back in Belfast for the foreseeable future for 3 reasons.

1. The sponsorship of Lansdowne means its unlikely Ireland will play any fixture outside there until the deal has expired.
2. Thomond Park is now a vastly superior venue to anything in the O6C
3. The politicians in the O6C who turned the Italy game into such a political football have left a bad taste in the mouth of the IRFU, who are unlikely to put themselves in that kind of position again for a generation. Ulsters rugby fans are the losers

If anyone thinks the IRFU have given the impression that Ireland is a ROI team only they are so unreasonable that they will never be happy with any 32 county team. The IRFU have bent over backwards to be neutral on these issues.

Football could learn a lot from rugby. The thing i enjoy most about rugby games is the lack of segregation. Having the opposition around you is great craic and although its unlikely it will ever happen accross the water, I would love to see the day segregation isn't necessary at domestic fixtures in Ireland.

btw, i would assume a large part of the reason people in ireland shirts were singing GSTG is the same as 2 years ago. With the playing of GSTQ your always going to get the odd idiot booing, but If 20,000 of us join in they are a lot less likely to be heard

[Cowboy]

So are you saying that people who object to "irelands call" have less regard for what happens in the game or that the issue of anthems is totally irrelevant in your opinion ?



I'd be more concerned with what happens after kick off but to each their own

[Cowboy]

May I ask (as you seem to be knowledgeable on the subject) how exactly the process of creating Irelands call came to be, was it NI political forces, players, or the IRFU themselves hat came up with the idea. Reason I ask is it seems that the national Anthem was fine for decades and i'm wondering what group or individuals objected to this? Open to correction but if memory serves Willie John Mc Bride always thought it was stirring to hear our Anthem before a game.




The anthem issue was just the latest example of the Ulster branch being used as a political football by people with no interest in the game.

[Gather round]

In my experience of the people who actually go to Ravenhill they don't care about any of the crap like that people have tried to make for Ulster, and just wish people could leave them alone

In my experience (going only occasionally, I prefer rugby league to union) and also discussing with others who go regularly, the irritation I referred to is widely shared by fans. Not stirred up by outsiders, as you suggest.


I doubt i would have got the same reaction at Windsor Park, which is a large part of why more and more nationalists are finding themselves at Ravenhill

I imagine you'd have got pretty much the same reaction at Windsor, ie nobody would have bothered you. Anyway, how does your second point follow from the first? Surely fans go to Ravenhill mainly because they, er, like rugby union, not because they imagine Windsor is unwelcoming to football fans?


as Northern Ireland has no national anthem what else could the IRFU do? The game was hijacked by politicians trying to bring about the bizarre situation of Ireland using what is recognized by the rugby world as England anthem (UK anthem, blah blah blah I know, but ask yourself why Scotland and Wales don't use it). The game was going to be shown around the world, GSTQ was always a non-runner

Variously: NI does have a national anthem; the IRFU could have played it; more generally, the IRFU could recognise the reality that its team represents two separate countries, and play neither of their anthems. If you don't like Ireland's call, ask Coulter to write something else.

GSTQ isn't recognised by the World as a purely English anthem. What does it matter what Scotland and Wales think? Northern Ireland and England disagree with them. As a basic courtesy other countries play the latter's anthem. Obviously you don't like it, but essentially GSTQ has mirror images in both the Soldier's song and Flower of Scotland- all three are about fighting one of the others.

Whether the game is to be shown around the World is irrelevant.


I doubt that Ireland will be back in Belfast for the foreseeable future for 3 reasons.

1. The sponsorship of Lansdowne means its unlikely Ireland will play any fixture outside there until the deal has expired

Which emphasises my point that it looks ever more like a team representing RoI only.


2. Thomond Park is now a vastly superior venue to [Ravenhill]

If all the games are going to be in Dublin, why mention it?



3. The politicians in the O6C who turned the Italy game into such a political football have left a bad taste in the mouth of the IRFU, who are unlikely to put themselves in that kind of position again for a generation. Ulsters rugby fans are the losers

I think it's more likely the stirrers referring to occupied six counties who've left the bad taste, don't you?

Ulster rugby fans, if seeing themselves as losers in the way you suggest, can lobby to change the game's organisation. My suggestion is only one possibility.


If anyone thinks the IRFU have given the impression that Ireland is a ROI team only they are so unreasonable that they will never be happy with any 32county team

I explained above why Ireland RFU is widely seen as a RoI only team. You clearly think that unhappiness with an all-Ireland team is unreasonable in itself; I disagree.


The IRFU have bent over backwards to be neutral on these issues

Disagree. They've made barely any effort to be neutral. If they had, the situation might be as detailed above.


Football could learn a lot from rugby. The thing i enjoy most about rugby games is the lack of segregation. Having the opposition around you is great craic and although its unlikely it will ever happen accross the water, I would love to see the day segregation isn't necessary at domestic fixtures in Ireland

Each can learn from the other, but the football tradition of away fans sticking together (which happens at levels well below international) isn't a bad thing.

[backstothewall]

Variously: NI does have a national anthem; the IRFU could have played it; more generally, the IRFU could recognise the reality that its team represents two separate countries, and play neither of their anthems. If you don't like Ireland's call, ask Coulter to write something else.



GSTQ isn't recognised by the World as a purely English anthem. What does it matter what Scotland and Wales think? Northern Ireland and England disagree with them. As a basic courtesy other countries play the latter's anthem. Obviously you don't like it, but essentially GSTQ has mirror images in both the Soldier's song and Flower of Scotland- all three are about fighting one of the others.


Northern Ireland has no national anthem (and no flag). The UK has GSTQ, Scotland has FOS, Wales has LOOF, and there is broad consensus in England that GSTQ is the English Anthem.

The situation with Northern Ireland is that no song has ever been given any official status, and there is no common consensus over what one should be. That has lead to the confusion of the IFA playing the UK anthem, while Danny Boy is played at the commonwealth games.


Whether the game is to be shown around the World is irrelevant.

It is true that unionists have never really cared what the rest of the world thought that much. In my opinion it is very relevent that the game was being shown across the world. The IRFU (and the Ulster branch in particular) obviously wanted to show Belfast in a positive light rather than as still obsessed with secterian point scorring


Which emphasises my point that it looks ever more like a team representing RoI only.

Just because the team plays in Dublin does not mean the north is not represented. Ulster play their games in Belfast but Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are certainly represented (the kids game at half time yesterday was Holywood v Cavan actually, and Tommy Bowe is still a very popular guy around Ravenhill).





If all the games are going to be in Dublin, why mention it?

Because there are 3 reason Ireland won't be back to Belfast for a while



I think it's more likely the stirrers referring to occupied six counties who've left the bad taste, don't you?

Get a life


Ulster rugby fans, if seeing themselves as losers in the way you suggest, can lobby to change the game's organisation. My suggestion is only one possibility.

Why would we? It pointless lobbying for change while we still have the same idiots at home. The train to Dublin is under £20 and in 90 minutes your free of the knuckle-draggers


I explained above why Ireland RFU is widely seen as a RoI only team.

You explained that you think there is it is an ROI team because that where they play their games. The facts are your in a minority, even among your own community. which is why when you walk round the centre of Belfast at the minute you will see bar after bar with "6 nations shown here" in the window. Its a paycheck for every bar in the city without the hassle that comes with football.


You clearly think that unhappiness with an all-Ireland team is unreasonable in itself; I disagree.

If your unhappy with the very existance of an all-island international side your never going to be happy. Good luck with that, but I'm not particularly unhappy you feel that way as Rugby is better off without people trying to find reason to be offended in everything. In the end though its cutting off your nose to spite your face. If the Ireland v Italy game at Ravenhill had been a success chances are Ireland would have been back for the occasional game, which would have been a great arguement in favour of a new stadium in Belfast/Maze.

But the O6C obviously aren't ready for live and let live. Remember that when FIFA or the Health and Safety Executive finally declare Windsor unsafe and your travelling to Scotland.

p.s. If that happens does that mean you will think of Northern Ireland as a Scottish team?

[backstothewall]

May I ask (as you seem to be knowledgeable on the subject) how exactly the process of creating Irelands call came to be, was it NI political forces, players, or the IRFU themselves hat came up with the idea. Reason I ask is it seems that the national Anthem was fine for decades and i'm wondering what group or individuals objected to this? Open to correction but if memory serves Willie John Mc Bride always thought it was stirring to hear our Anthem before a game.

The song was commissioned by the IRFU, but I don't know the ins and outs of the decision to do it. Personally i think its a rubbish song, but I'm all in favour of it as an anthem as the people i would go to rugby with, who are all unionists apart from me, all really like. it has really given them something to belt out before a game and anything that can bring the country together like it has to be a good thing.

The IRFU should design a new flag as well in my opinion to end the absurd situation of the Ulster flag flying beside the Tri-Colour. I know some people will see the idea of getting rid of the tri-colour as treason, but imho if a flag fails to unite everyone it is failing to do what flags are designed to do.

[Gather round]

Northern Ireland has no national anthem (and no flag). The UK has GSTQ, Scotland has FOS, Wales has LOOF, and there is broad consensus in England that GSTQ is the English Anthem

Northern Ireland has a national anthem, however much you dislike it. There is no broad consensus, you've just invented it. As you may know, both England and Northern Ireland have used other anthems in sports and competitions where they compete separately (eg Danny Boy, Land of hope and glory), but so what- the point is not that you can't change them, but that having NO home national anthem at a particular fixture has irritated much of the support, as I said.


It is true that unionists have never really cared what the rest of the world thought that much

On the contrary, I'm always interested in what the RotW thinks. I recognise that you don't speak for it, mind.


In my opinion it is very relevent that the game was being shown across the world. The IRFU (and the Ulster branch in particular) obviously wanted to show Belfast in a positive light rather than as still obsessed with secterian point scorring

I disagree, because it's basically irrelevant to the point (that rugby's administration has irritated much of its support in Northern Ireland, to the extent that two separate international teams representing Ireland is a live issue again. Whatever positive publicity gained from the minuscule foreign audience for a friendly against Italy. The only sectarian point scoring here is coming from you.


Just because the team plays in Dublin does not mean the north is not represented

I've explained why people feel it isn't represented and what you could do to reassure them.


Get a life

Get an argument, get out of denial?


You explained that you think there is it is an ROI team because that where they play their games

Er, no. I explained that, apart from playing 99%+ of the games in Dublin, they treated the only Belfast fixture in 50 years as an away match


The facts are your in a minority, even among your own community

I acknowledge it's a minority, although much increased since the Italy game.

[Cowboy]

Thanks for that. I agree it is a rubbish song, its a pity that Unionist supporters of Ireland were not consulted as i'm sure they could have come up with something much better. I must disagree you however on the flag issue, I see nothing absurd about both flags flying, imho inventing a flag would certainly be absurd.



The song was commissioned by the IRFU, but I don't know the ins and outs of the decision to do it. Personally i think its a rubbish song, but I'm all in favour of it as an anthem as the people i would go to rugby with, who are all unionists apart from me, all really like. it has really given them something to belt out before a game and anything that can bring the country together like it has to be a good thing.

The IRFU should design a new flag as well in my opinion to end the absurd situation of the Ulster flag flying beside the Tri-Colour. I know some people will see the idea of getting rid of the tri-colour as treason, but imho if a flag fails to unite everyone it is failing to do what flags are designed to do.

[Gather round]

If your unhappy with the very existance of an all-island international side your never going to be happy

No, as I explained there are two circumstances in which I'd be happier. Either the IRFU makes some small compromise to make the Ireland side more inclusive, or there is a separate Northern Ireland side.



Good luck with that, but I'm not particularly unhappy you feel that way

Thanks. No reason for you to be unhappy; let's have a reasonable compromise and everyone can be happier?


as Rugby is better off without people trying to find reason to be offended in everything

I'm not trying to be offended by everything. I've suggested small, easy compromise to solve two specific problems.


If the Ireland v Italy game at Ravenhill had been a success chances are Ireland would have been back for the occasional game, which would have been a great arguement in favour of a new stadium in Belfast/Maze

You're suggesting they wouldn't have agreed the same contract to play all the games in Dublin?

Rugby union attendances in Belfast are healthy enough to justify more than one international match in 50 years. They clearly aren't of a scale demanding a 40,000 white elephant in the middle of nowhere, or more than a refurb for Ravenhill. Anyway, this is a roundabout argument, since it would have been more of a success had it not, er, annoyed much of the local support.


Remember that when FIFA or the Health and Safety Executive finally declare Windsor unsafe and your travelling to Scotland

Ha ha. You're a bit behind the times. Windsor is planning a new grandstand and other widespread refurb work, to be completed this year for ca £7 million. A fraction of the Maze plans.

[DeLorean]

So are you saying that people who object to "irelands call" have less regard for what happens in the game

I care more about what happens in the game, i'm not bothered what u care more about. Sorry if I implied that u don't care enough about what happens after kick off, or indeed care too much about the value of Irelands Call.


that the issue of anthems is totally irrelevant in your opinion ?

I'm saying that in this unusual situation where 2 nations have combined to form one, the issue of the national anthem isn't a big deal to me. I can understand that a compromise was necessary.

[Cowboy]

I care more about what happens in the game, i'm not bothered what u care more about. Sorry if I implied that u don't care enough about what happens after kick off, or indeed care too much about the value of Irelands Call.

Fair enough but please recognise that Irelands call is a big issue for a lot of people, for differing reasons albeit.




I'm saying that in this unusual situation where 2 nations have combined to form one, the issue of the national anthem isn't a big deal to me. I can understand that a compromise was necessary.

I'm wondering though how this situation came about i.e. who was driving the issue. Would unionist supporters regard the six counties as a nation?

[pineapple stu]

Get a life
Can we try keep nonsense such as this out of what's a fairly reasonable debate?

[DeLorean]

Fair enough but please recognise that Irelands call is a big issue for a lot of people, for differing reasons albeit.

Noted


I'm wondering though how this situation came about i.e. who was driving the issue. Would unionist supporters regard the six counties as a nation?

Well they consider it seperate from the Republic anyway so I would have thought that anything other than Amhrán na bhFiann would have been an improvement from their point of view.

[Cowboy]

Noted

Thanks


Well they consider it seperate from the Republic anyway so I would have thought that anything other than Amhrán na bhFiann would have been an improvement from their point of view.

Thats understandable from their point of view. I'm still trying to understand though why it became an issue at that point in time, unionists have been playing rugby for decades and I do not recall any objections being mentioned, was/is it really that big an issue for Unionists?

[DeLorean]

Thats understandable from their point of view. I'm still trying to understand though why it became an issue at that point in time, unionists have been playing rugby for decades and I do not recall any objections being mentioned, was/is it really that big an issue for Unionists?

No idea, I'd say twas part of the Good Friday Agreement only for it being recorded 3 yrs earlier!!:D

Maybe it was a gesture from the IRFU towards it's unionist members or something, I haven't a clue really so I should just quit while I'm laggin just a small bit off da pace!!!

[gspain]

Thanks


Thats understandable from their point of view. I'm still trying to understand though why it became an issue at that point in time, unionists have been playing rugby for decades and I do not recall any objections being mentioned, was/is it really that big an issue for Unionists?

The deal was

A na bhF in Dublin
GSTQ in Belfast (last game until recently was in 1954)

for home games. Nothing away.

Then the rugby WC came along and we had to use the Rose of Tralee in 1987. Hence the need for Ireland's Call.

Now it became an issue when GSTQ was not played in Belfast for Italy 2007.

[Cowboy]

Why was a deal necessary and what parties was it made with ? Who in Gods name chose to use the "Rose of Tralee" and how would that justify a need for Irelands call? I'm sure our unionist supporters could come uo with a better song to represent the six counties which could be played instead of the Coulter abomination.



The deal was
A na bhF in Dublin
GSTQ in Belfast (last game until recently was in 1954)
for home games. Nothing away.
Then the rugby WC came along and we had to use the Rose of Tralee in 1987. Hence the need for Ireland's Call.
Now it became an issue when GSTQ was not played in Belfast for Italy 2007.

[Stuttgart88]

What was the Ulster & Ireland flanker of the 1980s? Nigel, can't remember his surname.

I remember him being interviewed and he said there was one time on TV he was chewing gum during the anthem with the cameras on him & he said he hoped people didn't think he was singing along.

In that context it's clear that some sort of concession to Ulster unionists was probably necessary, or at best an inclusive gesture. That's why I've no big deal with it. As I say, it ain't perfect but it is what it is. Having an all-island team in no way dilutes my support for it.

I'd personally prefer not to see an all-island football team as I just can't see the harmonious atmosphere & cameraderie we have on away trips continuing. Jaysus, the Keane / McCarthy civil war was divisive enough without proper history having to be dealt with! I'm sure many from both sides of the border would try and get along but for others it may be too big an ask. I suspect the middle classes in NI were less hung up on political divides during the Troubles, hence the lack of fuss over a united rugby team, but for the working classes / typical football attending classes it was and probably is more of an issue.

Just my opinion, would be interested what Gather Round and others think.

[jbyrne]

What was the Ulster & Ireland flanker of the 1980s? Nigel, can't remember his surname.


nigel carr is his name. rugby career cut short by an IRA bomb on the way to a training session in Dublin

[gspain]

Why was a deal necessary and what parties was it made with ? Who in Gods name chose to use the "Rose of Tralee" and how would that justify a need for Irelands call? I'm sure our unionist supporters could come uo with a better song to represent the six counties which could be played instead of the Coulter abomination.

This had been the way right back until the Irish Free state gained independence. The French game sin the 20's and the Welsh games in the 30's were plated at Ravenhill. Then some postwar games up until 1954 were played there and the anthem used for Ireland was GSTK and then GSTQ. In 1954 some players remained in the dressingroom until after the anthems.

The IRFU chose the Rose of tralee. I don't know whose idea it was.

Ireland's Call is used to represent the whole island. It is the only anthem played for away games.

[jbyrne]

The IRFU chose the Rose of tralee. I don't know whose idea it was.


i think its all the organisers could get their hands on after an objection by some ulster players at short notice. around the time of the last RWC there was an article about it. think i still have at home somewhere. if you think the fai in WC02 were badly organised you should read some of the stuff that went on at the 87 RWC!

[Cowboy]

Ireland's Call is used to represent the whole island.

Sure as hell does not represent me :)

[shakermaker1982]

No, as I explained there are two circumstances in which I'd be happier. Either the IRFU makes some small compromise to make the Ireland side more inclusive, or there is a separate Northern Ireland side.

We select Rory Best. What more can you want :D

[Gather round]

In that context it's clear that some sort of concession to Ulster unionists was probably necessary, or at best an inclusive gesture. That's why I've no big deal with it. As I say, it ain't perfect but it is what it is. Having an all-island team in no way dilutes my support for it

Fair enough. I'm not wholly opposed to all-Ireland teams per se; I watch a lot of cricket, where it works.


I'd personally prefer not to see an all-island football team as I just can't see the harmonious atmosphere & cameraderie we have on away trips continuing

OK, but without going into details my- and many others'- opposition to an all-Ireland football team are rather more fundamental than the loss of some harmony in the pub ;)


I suspect the middle classes in NI were less hung up on political divides during the Troubles, hence the lack of fuss over a united rugby team, but for the working classes / typical football attending classes it was and probably is more of an issue

Not really. When it comes to being suspicious or even sectarian the rich are no different to you or I. Even if they have more money.

The significant difference is that in football, partition had already happened long ago.

[geysir]

Why was a deal necessary and what parties was it made with ? Who in Gods name chose to use the "Rose of Tralee" and how would that justify a need for Irelands call? I'm sure our unionist supporters could come uo with a better song to represent the six counties which could be played instead of the Coulter abomination.
At that last game in Ravenhill in the mid 50´s there was players revolt.
The players just heard before the game that GSTQ would be played, some players/ quite a few players refused point blank to come out and line up to stand to attention, they were packing their bags to leave. There was big stand off in the dressing room, which would have had a Cork hurler in an excited orgasmic frenzy.
Some royal figure was in attendance. The Ulster rugby suits were frantic at the embarrasment factor.
A compromise was reached, GSTQ would be played, the players involved in the stand off could come out to the pitch afterwards, line up to be greeted by the Royal and never edver again would the players be put in that situation again.
That was the agreement which got the players out of the dressing room and playing.

The last Ravenhill situation against Italy was farcical, there is no way many of the Southern players would have stood for GSTQ. Instead of getting real, Ulster get offended. Thick as bricks.
The Rugby teams represents one federation over 1 and 1/2 states. It does not just represent the Republic with the Ulster lads allowed a day out. This is the IRFU team and the 9 county Ulster branch is an integral part. The IRFU should just ditch the playing of AnbF. Irelands Call is good enough for them. Or how about that song
There is an Isle
FD0LQgC2ZpQ
that would get the hipflasks out and raised

I went to a load of the rugby games when I was in secondary school and as long as I was not too tall to climb over the stiles in a nano second..
I really enjoyed them. But as mentioned before, the same degree of desperation not to get beaten (by England) wasn't present.

[backstothewall]

Can we try keep nonsense such as this out of what's a fairly reasonable debate?

Sorry,

i tend to use "northern Ireland", "O6C" and "the north" interchangably, and I don't correct people on what they use because i find it objectionable being told what i can and can't say myself. I don't think thats much to ask.

If we are allowed to go down the road of petty correcting of what each other say this thread is likely to go the way of every other one that even touches on these kind of subjects.

[Gather round]

The last Ravenhill situation against Italy was farcical, there is no way many of the Southern players would have stood for GSTQ. Instead of getting real, Ulster get offended. Thick as bricks

Did they say so in a press conference, or just whisper it to you down the pub?


The IRFU should just ditch the playing of AnbF. Irelands Call is good enough for them

Good call. Apart from the Ireland's call bit, maybe.


I don't correct people on what they use because i find it objectionable being told what i can and can't say myself. I don't think thats much to ask

Ask away. The thing is, it just looks like a wind up. So you don't really object, do you? You're deliberately looking for a rise.


i tend to use "northern Ireland", "O6C" and "the north" interchangably

You throw 'occupied six counties' interchangeably into conversation with your unionist mates in the pub or at Ravenhill? Or at work?

[geysir]

Did they say so in a press conference, or just whisper it to you down the pub?
You would have heard it out loud, at least from the Munster contingent if they had been requested to stand for GSTQ as the anthem.
They wouldn't have been standing in line looking down at their boots :)

The IRFU are not that thick to vote for a revisit to the revolt of 1955 and just before a World Cup.

[Cowboy]

The IRFU should just ditch the playing of AnbF. Irelands Call is good enough for them. Or how about that song
There is an Isle
that would get the hipflasks out and raised



Thanks for the info, most interesting. I would agree to ditching AnbF if they also ditched ICall. Never heard "There is an Isle" before now, its certainly a rouser :) I wonder if all could agree on it as a battle hymn before a game. I dont understand how Unionist players would want the same anthem before a game that England uses?

[pineapple stu]

Sorry,

i tend to use "northern Ireland", "O6C" and "the north" interchangably, and I don't correct people on what they use because i find it objectionable being told what i can and can't say myself. I don't think thats much to ask.

If we are allowed to go down the road of petty correcting of what each other say this thread is likely to go the way of every other one that even touches on these kind of subjects.
The post I was highlighting was the "Get a life" one. There's better ways of making a point, even if you feel you're right.

[gspain]

At that last game in Ravenhill in the mid 50´s there was players revolt.
The players just heard before the game that GSTQ would be played, some players/ quite a few players refused point blank to come out and line up to stand to attention, they were packing their bags to leave. There was big stand off in the dressing room, which would have had a Cork hurler in an excited orgasmic frenzy.
Some royal figure was in attendance. The Ulster rugby suits were frantic at the embarrasment factor.
A compromise was reached, GSTQ would be played, the players involved in the stand off could come out to the pitch afterwards, line up to be greeted by the Royal and never edver again would the players be put in that situation again.
That was the agreement which got the players out of the dressing room and playing.

The last Ravenhill situation against Italy was farcical, there is no way many of the Southern players would have stood for GSTQ. Instead of getting real, Ulster get offended. Thick as bricks.
The Rugby teams represents one federation over 1 and 1/2 states. It does not just represent the Republic with the Ulster lads allowed a day out. This is the IRFU team and the 9 county Ulster branch is an integral part. The IRFU should just ditch the playing of AnbF. Irelands Call is good enough for them. Or how about that song
There is an Isle
FD0LQgC2ZpQ
that would get the hipflasks out and raised

I went to a load of the rugby games when I was in secondary school and as long as I was not too tall to climb over the stiles in a nano second..
I really enjoyed them. But as mentioned before, the same degree of desperation not to get beaten (by England) wasn't present.

It was 1954 v Scotland. Ravenhill was already considered too small for International rugby and part of the deal was that they would never play there again.

I heard on good authority and posted on a forum circa Feb 2007 that in return for agreeing not to play GSTQ at Ravenhill that the Ulster branch would get all the tickets for the Italy game. They did subsequently get all the tickets.

[Cowboy]

I heard on good authority and posted on a forum circa Feb 2007 that in return for agreeing not to play GSTQ at Ravenhill that the Ulster branch would get all the tickets for the Italy game. They did subsequently get all the tickets.

So it was a rouse (sic?) just to get all the tickets ?:)

[geysir]

It was 1954 v Scotland. Ravenhill was already considered too small for International rugby and part of the deal was that they would never play there again.
The dozen or so players were promised that they would never have to play an international again in Ravenhill as part of the deal to get them out onto the pitch.
Whatever was added onto the list of reasons for not playing there is incidental/financial.

I heard on good authority and posted on a forum circa Feb 2007 that in return for agreeing not to play GSTQ at Ravenhill that the Ulster branch would get all the tickets for the Italy game. They did subsequently get all the tickets.
Tickets meant money.
The UB gaze was diverted from raising a mini whine fest over the anthem by the lure of the greenbacks.

[gspain]

The dozen or so players were promised that they would never have to play an international again in Ravenhill as part of the deal to get them out onto the pitch.
Whatever was added onto the list of reasons for not playing there is incidental/financial.

Tickets meant money.
The UB gaze was diverted from raising a mini whine fest over the anthem by the lure of the greenbacks.

I certainly recall reading that a decision had been taken anyway that the Scotland game was to be the last in Ravenhill. It was promised to the players too as you say.

I believe JC Daly of Dolphin who scored the winning try at Ravenhill to clinch Ireland's last Grand Slam also remained in the dressingroom prior to the game v Wales. All the others lined up for the anthems. He also was fired from his job the following week because he didn't show up for work on Monday morning due to the excesses of the celebrations. A former colleague of mine survived a similiar fate 40 years later when they missed an important business meeting in Utrecht on June 13th 1988 due to still being drunk in Stuttgart.

[jbyrne]

A former colleague of mine survived a similiar fate 40 years later when they missed an important business meeting in Utrecht on June 13th 1988 due to still being drunk in Stuttgart.

had we beaten spain in suwon i would also have suffered the same fate! no way i was missing a 1/4 final v the hosts but was already on extended leave!

[backstothewall]

You throw 'occupied six counties' interchangeably into conversation with your unionist mates in the pub or at Ravenhill? Or at work?

Yes as a matter of fact. I do. Especially in the pub. We're easy going people and we like each other too much to be offended over things that aren't terribly important. You should give it a go


The post I was highlighting was the "Get a life" one. There's better ways of making a point, even if you feel you're right.

I appreciate that. I was responding to being told that the phrase "occupied 6 counties" is offensive, and couldn't be annoying getting into a debate on nothing, but you are completely right.

[pineapple stu]

I was responding to being told that the phrase "occupied 6 counties" is offensive,
In fairness, it's hardly the most PC of terms. I agree with your political viewpoint, but I can also see how the term could be a bit touchy.

But anyways. Moving on.