League Director gives two fingers to First Division

[mediahack]

In today's Irish Daily Mail, there is an exclusive interview with Fran Gavin ahead of the league launch.

In the bottom corner he reacts to the lack of First Division Football on TV by saying "Louis Copeland wouldn't put his worst suits in the window!". He then goes on to say that if clubs want to be on TV they should get into the Premier Division.

This is disgraceful coming from the director of the league - he is basically giving the finger to the entire division. Even Sky show league 1 & 2 games as part of their TV deal yet this is the contempt coming from the FAI!

I can imagine the charge of disrepute if a club person was quoted like that in the papers!!!!

[micls]

....I think he's right.

We're trying to sell our league. Sky don't have the same problem. Not comparable situations.

He's being honest and giving the reason that you won't be on tele.

[osarusan]

We're trying to sell our league.
First division teams are trying to sell our division too.

I can see his point (though I am not sure that you can make a blanket statement about the superiority of premier division facilities and, to a lesser extent, footballing standards over first division teams), but if he did actually say something along the lines of

if clubs want to be on TV they should get into the Premier Division.
then it is a pretty ignorant statement to make.

[holidaysong]

We're trying to sell our league.

The key word there - league, i.e. not just the Premier Division. How does his comments help First Division clubs like Kildare or Monaghan who are struggling to get more bums on seats?

[don ramo]

id hate to ask him what he thinks of the A league :o

[Jofspring]

Sky even show conference, as do Setanta. Thats a disgrace for him to say that. Bloody sporting fingal will be better than most teams in the premier. The Premier was wrapped up with a good bit to go in the season and the first divsion went right down to the wire with a much more exciting finish on the last day of the season. I wonder has gavin ever even been to a first divsion match....if he hasn't he shouldn't be commenting on it. There are first divsion matches as entertaining as any premier match. The quality of football might not be as good but the entertainment can be. Its just like the english premier is a higher standard but not particularly more entertaining than the loi premier. His attitude towards the first divsion is no different than the irish publics attitude to the loi premier. How can he convince irish people to support their home team when thats his attitude.

I understand not showing loads of first divsion matches but it derserves some coverage. How else is it supposed to progress without some national coverage.

[pineapple stu]

Even Sky show league 1 & 2 games as part of their TV deal yet this is the contempt coming from the FAI!
Sky don't show Ryman First Division though.

He's right in what he says, but it's interesting that the FAI are very much for keeping any sort of negative comments from clubs out of the media, yet they turn around and do the same thing themselves. Do what I say, not what I do.

Edit - "If they want TV, they should get to the Premier Division" is obviously a ridiculously ignorant comment. He should have just kept shtum. Come to think of it, that'd be a good rule for him in general.

[micls]

First division teams are trying to sell our division too.


We wont be able to sell the individual clubs in most cases imo. The way to go about it it to sell the league itself. If people take an interest in the league, then theres a chance theyl take an interest in their local club and head down one night.

The hardest job is getting them into the ground and everything should be done to do this (if hiding facts etc does this then I fully support it). If someone watches mns, enjoys it and thinks I can give this a chance then he'l head to the nearest ground.

Then the club has a chance to sell itself through its facilities, atmosphere etc, regardless of the football.

Again I think the key is getting them through the door and interested in the league for the first time. To do this you need to show them the best of whats on offer.

The key word there - league, i.e. not just the Premier Division. How does his comments help First Division clubs like Kildare or Monaghan who are struggling to get more bums on seats?

Tried to expalin this above.

[MickNolan]

I think Setanta should agree an offer with the FAI a similar deal to Sky's with the FA. Its the only way this league is going to get somewhere imo!

[Mr Maroon]

I agree with him. Why should the First Division be treated as equal to the Premier?

[osarusan]

If people take an interest in the league, then theres a chance theyl take an interest in their local club and head down one night.

The key is getting them through the door and interested in the league for the first time. To do this you need to show them the best of whats on offer.

Again I can see your point as I can see Fran Gavin's point.

But your argument above (edited by me) suggests that you think only covering premier division football games is more likely to make, say....a Monaghan fan want to attend a Monagahan game, than if first division games including Monaghan were covered as well.

I don't think I'd agree with that.

Again, I fully agree that most of the coverage should be of the Premier division teams. My main beef is that this comment

if clubs want to be on TV they should get into the Premier Division.
which suggests that there will be little help from the FAI for teams trying to achieve that.


I agree with him. Why should the First Division be treated as equal to the Premier?
Nobody mentioned equal coverage, nor expects it. More than the 45 seconds the 1st division got all last season would be nice though.

[Jofspring]

Because there is more than ten teams playing loi football in ireland thats why. Nobody said it should be treated equal, but it needs some coverage or the teams in the first division will always struggle to get attendances up.

[micls]

But your argument above (edited by me) suggests that you think only covering premier division football games is more likely to make, say....a Monaghan fan want to attend a Monagahan game, than if first division games including Monaghan were covered as well.

I don't think I'd agree with that.



No, Im saying it'd make a random barstooler or teenager or kids etc that gets interested and happens to live in Monaghan to go look for their team and go to a game. People who mightnt even know of the LOi before this.

I would think that MNS should ensure to have results and particularly next fixtures of all clubs up at the end. Someone might have watched at at the end realise tehre is a team in Monaghan they can go check out.

Im not completely against showing a first division game for example, but I think the primary aim should be to show the league off at its best.

[holidaysong]

We won't be able to sell the individual clubs in most cases imo. The way to go about it it to sell the league itself. If people take an interest in the league, then theres a chance theyl take an interest in their local club and head down one night.


I disagree. I think someone begins being a LOI fan by supporting the club they see as their local club and then, by extension, the league itself. I don't think it's possible to first make someone a fan of the league through MNS and then for them to seek out a club.

[micls]

I disagree. I think someone begins being a LOI fan by supporting the club they see as their local club and then, by extension, the league itself. I don't think it's possible to first make someone a fan of the league through MNS and then for them to seek out a club.

Wel just have to agree to disagree.

I think the local club thing only works AFTER you go to your first game(it was certainly the case with me). We dont ahve a culture in the country of supporting your local football team and people dont see the point/see it as something you should be doing.

However I think after going to a game this manifests itself and you ralise what you've been missing.

I think the local club aspect is how clubs can work to keep fans, but I dont think it'l get them through the door first day

[osarusan]

No, Im saying it'd make a random barstooler or teenager or kids etc that gets interested and happens to live in Monaghan to go look for their team and go to a game.

Apologies, that is what you said.

What I meant to write was that "you think only covering premier division football games is more likely to make, say....a random barstooler living in Monaghan want to attend a Monagahan game, than if first division games including Monaghan were covered as well?"


People who mightnt even know of the LOi before this.
Are these not the very people who need to be made aware of the existence of first division clubs in their vicinity? Rather than having to find out for themselves?



Im not completely against showing a first division game for example, but I think the primary aim should be to show the league off at its best.
So we basically have the same opinion - the primary aim is to showcase the best the LOI has to offer. We in the first division are looking for just a little more than Gavin seems to want to give.

[LeixlipRed]

While his point is valid, it's the sort of thing you discuss with mates in the pub not in an interview. More amateur hour stuff. Fran you're a tit.

[Angus]

As Junior Soprano said to Mikey Palmese in series 1, when Mikey was ranting about how Tony was exceeding his boundaries and should be taught a lesson:

"Take it easy, we're not making a Western over here"

Or in The Thick of It, when Ben Swain was threatening all kinds of retribution against a political rival, the scottish bloke told him to shut up saying:

"This isn't eastenders - this is politics"


Did he say something daft ? Yes. Did he mean to insult Division 1 ? No
Was it badly worded and ill chosen words ? Yes Is he satan personified ? No

Badly chosen mataphor but let's calm down

[Boh_So_Good]

In today's Irish Daily Mail, there is an exclusive interview with Fran Gavin ahead of the league launch.

In the bottom corner he reacts to the lack of First Division Football on TV by saying "Louis Copeland wouldn't put his worst suits in the window!". He then goes on to say that if clubs want to be on TV they should get into the Premier Division.


BRAVO

One of the things which has always been fundementally wrong with Irish society is we reward failure and superficial victim complexes which serve only to create a pointless level playing field of averageness for all. Thus the cream of the crop in terms of Irish talent across all sectors of society have a ball and chain made up of parish pumps and the isolated connected to their feet dragging them back. O'Socialism.

There is a Parish Pump mindset among the First Div Clubs were they are somehow not getting the respect they should. Firstly, the only aim of a First Division Club should to do their best not to be one anymore. That's it.

People who take issue Fran Gavin's refreshingly honest comments are the same people who have us building Western Rail Corridors between villages in the West of Ireland while the Dublin Rail DART/Communter system is bursting at the seams...the same mentality which has every passenger into Knock Airport being susidised by the taxpayers for 290 Euro each so people in the rural Mayo can feel loved...the same reason why cities like Cork and Limerick remain underdeveloped while villages in Roscommon like Boyle have the best of everything and are still ****holes...the same reason we pour billions into the Irish language while our schools turn out kids who have appalling English language and grammar skill.

We have to get over this mindset in this country, especially LOI football if we are to move anything in this country forward. The days of rewarding failure has to end, well said Fran Gavin - should be running the country, let alone the LOI.

[pineapple stu]

Is he satan personified ? No
Proof please?

[mediahack]

While his point is valid, it's the sort of thing you discuss with mates in the pub not in an interview. More amateur hour stuff. Fran you're a tit.

I think its far more than that - this is the guy who is in charge of the league of Ireland and he is basically saying that over 54% of those clubs under his tenure are not worth talking about!

And I don't agree with his view - Monaghan United is as important to the League of Ireland as Cork City and given the carry on of some Premier Clubs over the past few years, some of the First Division clubs should be the ones to be held up as shining examples of good business practice in our league.

Last season, the final quarter of the season was far more exciting on the field in the First Division than the Premier where the league was won nearly 3 months before the end and the focus was on clubs surviving ;)

[passerrby]

if clubs want to be on TV they should get into the Premier Division.!!!!

is that the advice the director of the league gave to the clubs last year who nearly when bellyup.

now we know where these clubs got there sound advice tw*t

[oldyouth]

While his point is valid, it's the sort of thing you discuss with mates in the pub not in an interview. More amateur hour stuff. Fran you're a tit.

Exactly. In the 1st Division we know it is not like watching Brazil but we a) like it, b) hope more come and watch it and c) hope it gets to a better standard. What has his statement done to help? Tool

[LK37oldskool]

Boh so good - i gather from your attitude that you support a premier team? I hope your never in the 1st div cause you'd never survive.All clubs should be treated equally and as has been said in another post a lot of the Div 1 clubs have behaved better than most.
Get off your high horse.We all want the league to prosper.

[RonnieB]

BRAVO

One of the things which has always been fundementally wrong with Irish society is we reward failure and superficial victim complexes which serve only to create a pointless level playing field of averageness for all. Thus the cream of the crop in terms of Irish talent across all sectors of society have a ball and chain made up of parish pumps and the isolated connected to their feet dragging them back. O'Socialism.

There is a Parish Pump mindset among the First Div Clubs were they are somehow not getting the respect they should. Firstly, the only aim of a First Division Club should to do their best not to be one anymore. That's it.

People who take issue Fran Gavin's refreshingly honest comments are the same people who have us building Western Rail Corridors between villages in the West of Ireland while the Dublin Rail DART/Communter system is bursting at the seams...the same mentality which has every passenger into Knock Airport being susidised by the taxpayers for 290 Euro each so people in the rural Mayo can feel loved...the same reason why cities like Cork and Limerick remain underdeveloped while villages in Roscommon like Boyle have the best of everything and are still ****holes...the same reason we pour billions into the Irish language while our schools turn out kids who have appalling English language and grammar skill.

We have to get over this mindset in this country, especially LOI football if we are to move anything in this country forward. The days of rewarding failure has to end, well said Fran Gavin - should be running the country, let alone the LOI.


Even for you this is one of your finest works of steaming ****. Typical ****ing dub.

[Mr A]

Once again the idea that the first division is important to the league seems to entirely escape people, while at certain clubs the instinct to pull up the ladder after themselves seems to reign supreme. The first should not get equal coverage- but some coverage of the top games would be a good start. The health of the first division is fundamental to the health of the league.

Boh_So_Good's rant was absolutely superb from a supporter of the Anglo Irish Bank of Irish football.

[kingdomkerry]

I agree with Fran

[corkharps]

Totally unprofessional statement from a person that is paid to promote the LOI!!!!!!!:eek:

[Mr A]

What would anyone expect from that idiot?

[Fr Damo]

One of the things which has always been fundementally wrong with Irish society is we reward failure and superficial victim complexes which serve only to create a pointless level playing field of averageness for all. Thus the cream of the crop in terms of Irish talent across all sectors of society have a ball and chain made up of parish pumps and the isolated connected to their feet dragging them back. O'Socialism.

There is a Parish Pump mindset among the First Div Clubs were they are somehow not getting the respect they should. Firstly, the only aim of a First Division Club should to do their best not to be one anymore. That's it.

People who take issue Fran Gavin's
refreshingly honest comments are the same people who have us building Western Rail Corridors between villages in the West of Ireland while the Dublin Rail DART/Communter system is bursting at the seams...the same mentality which has every passenger into Knock Airport being susidised by the taxpayers for 290 Euro each so people in the rural Mayo can feel loved...the same reason why cities like Cork and Limerick remain underdeveloped while villages in Roscommon like Boyle have the best of everything and are still ****holes...the same reason we pour billions into the Irish language while our schools turn out kids who have appalling English language and grammar skill.

We have to get over this mindset in this country, especially LOI football if we are to move anything in this country forward. The days of rewarding failure has to end, well said Fran Gavin - should be running the country, let alone the LOI.


Are you serious?

Look where capitalism has taken the Irish Economy? There are holistc benifits in all of the examples you quote ref Knock and Riailways and cann't be quantified this year or next year in terms of profit. You obviously reside in or around the pale and probably close to phibsboro, which is a kip by the way due to the local community being too wrapped up in themselves to give a toss about what you have been doing up there and the legacy you have left the next generation. Don't blame the culchies for you guys not managing your planning laws properly

And the billons on Irish language......... Cop on. Fran Gavin was wrong,as an ATFC season ticket holder. There is F all between the last four in the premier and the first four in the first, as you guys will find out next year when you don't receive your Premier licence for being bust!

[pete]

Some people need to come back to reality. Gavin was referring to TV coverage where you want to bring your best games to a new audience.

I woudn't want Monaghan v Athlone (just using as an example) on TV so what hope a non LOI fan.

[Mr A]

Some people need to come back to reality. Gavin was referring to TV coverage where you want to bring your best games to a new audience.

I woudn't want Monaghan v Athlone on TV so waht hope a non LOI fan.

And again another straw man is set up to be knocked down.

What people are asking for is a few goals to be shown on MNS from top games, not regular live matches from D1.

[mypost]

I woudn't want Monaghan v Athlone on TV so waht hope a non LOI fan.

I don't want Exeter City v Woking on either, but Setanta will show it anyway.

That statement from an FAI league official is a resigning issue imo for bringing the game into disrepute. Every game should be covered in the league every week. If they cut the talking and analysis out of MNS, they'd easily fit the other 6 games in.

You can bet that Serie B, 2. Bundesliga, Ligue 2, and Liga Segunda are covered every week by tv stations in their countries. The football mightn't be world-class, the stadiums mightn't be full, but the principle is the crux of the issue.

Considering that every nook and cranny GAA-game is covered every week by RTE, the least they can do, is show 6 more LOI games a week.

[passerrby]

it must be great to be yous eh..bohs so good

well said mypost

[Sam_Heggy]

The interview doesn't exactly help First Division clubs sell add boards around their ground.
Fran Gavin, you sir should be the one who has to stand in the middle of the ring during Mr.A's illegal monkey knife fights. Now THAT really would produce a large crowd.

[pixiehead]

BRAVO

One of the things which has always been fundementally wrong with Irish society is we reward failure and superficial victim complexes which serve only to create a pointless level playing field of averageness for all. Thus the cream of the crop in terms of Irish talent across all sectors of society have a ball and chain made up of parish pumps and the isolated connected to their feet dragging them back. O'Socialism.

There is a Parish Pump mindset among the First Div Clubs were they are somehow not getting the respect they should. Firstly, the only aim of a First Division Club should to do their best not to be one anymore. That's it.

People who take issue Fran Gavin's refreshingly honest comments are the same people who have us building Western Rail Corridors between villages in the West of Ireland while the Dublin Rail DART/Communter system is bursting at the seams...the same mentality which has every passenger into Knock Airport being susidised by the taxpayers for 290 Euro each so people in the rural Mayo can feel loved...the same reason why cities like Cork and Limerick remain underdeveloped while villages in Roscommon like Boyle have the best of everything and are still ****holes...the same reason we pour billions into the Irish language while our schools turn out kids who have appalling English language and grammar skill.

We have to get over this mindset in this country, especially LOI football if we are to move anything in this country forward. The days of rewarding failure has to end, well said Fran Gavin - should be running the country, let alone the LOI.

Grammer?? Like the night on the news when the dublin girl was going to the shop for " A package of Kwips" :D

Your very bitter about the west?? Did you lose out to a more educated culchie who didnt drop out of school at 10 to shoot up gear pick pocket people on the overcrowded dart?

[Angus]

Proof please?

Are you Fran Gavin ? I have never seen you together so clearly you are the same person

[redobit]

BRAVO


People who take issue Fran Gavin's refreshingly honest comments are the same people who have us building Western Rail Corridors between villages in the West of Ireland while the Dublin Rail DART/Communter system is bursting at the seams



For me to travel to Limerick by train I have to go to Dublin first. How would you like it if you wanted to go to Cork and you had to travel to Sligo first. Whats a country without infrastructure?

Fran may in essence be right, but he should have kept it to himself.

[mediahack]

I don't want Exeter City v Woking on either, but Setanta will show it anyway.

That statement from an FAI league official is a resigning issue imo for bringing the game into disrepute. Every game should be covered in the league every week. If they cut the talking and analysis out of MNS, they'd easily fit the other 6 games in.

You can bet that Serie B, 2. Bundesliga, Ligue 2, and Liga Segunda are covered every week by tv stations in their countries. The football mightn't be world-class, the stadiums mightn't be full, but the principle is the crux of the issue.

Considering that every nook and cranny GAA-game is covered every week by RTE, the least they can do, is show 6 more LOI games a week.

Absolutely right - he should go over something like this!

I am not advocating live games from the FD each week but if the FAI cares about irish football then the FD is as important as the PD in terms of its position in football - it is the second tier and therefore deserves far more than the token 45 secs it got any week last year on MNS.

And when it gets exciting at the top as happened last season it should merit at least a highlights/goals package! Goals at any level are exciting!

[pete]

I don't want Exeter City v Woking on either, but Setanta will show it anyway.

True. But you are not comparing like with like. Do they show Conference North or South games? The 1st division is already subsidised by the Premier - the winner this year gets 66k which is more than 4th place in the Premier.

[pineapple stu]

Are you Fran Gavin ? I have never seen you together so clearly you are the same person
:D

I've seen me and Fran at the same time, so it's OK. Have independent witnesses to corroborate this too.

I wasn't going to post this because I thought I'd be going off topic, but then, I realised it was a bit late for that.


The 1st division is already subsidised by the Premier - the winner this year gets 66k which is more than 4th place in the Premier.
Do you think the Premier has earned all the E1m prize money for this year?

I'd be fairly sure all the prize money is subsidised by the national team. No League of Ireland games should be shown on telly at all, in fact. You wuoldn't want to show off your worst suit, so why show Cork?

[Sniffer]

What Fran Gavin said was correct, he just shouldn't be saying it in public.He is supposed to be promoting the league, yet he's ended up offering even more ammunition to the its detractors. JD needs to buy him a muzzle.

[citybone]

they should show the odd game in the 1st division, but the priority should be to show the prem division, like there might be a game in the 1st division which might be more important than a prem division game on one weekend but 9 times out of 10 there will be more important games in the prem division

[oriel]

I agree with him. Why should the First Division be treated as equal to the Premier?


Would you feel the same way next season if you were relegated ?

No reason why a goals round up from the first div cant be sorted out for MNS this season, that would settle all of this. Have it at the end of the show as a wrap up.

The question of First Div games live on tv was never in question, how many have there ever been 1 or 2 ?

[passerrby]

True. But you are not comparing like with like. Do they show Conference North or South games? The 1st division is already subsidised by the Premier - the winner this year gets 66k which is more than 4th place in the Premier.

how do you work that out pete the registration fees are the same refs fees, the first have the same licensing requirements the only difference is the prem gets 79% of the money available and all of the airtime.

[pete]

The FAI are already foregoing 5m in revenue to get RTE to do the MNS show. How much extra would it be worth for them to show the 1st division?

[CMcC]

All these examples of England and other countries showing lower division football all have the same thing in common. That is, those countries show a huge amount (some may too much) of live football from the top division thoughout the season.

Now compare that to us, where we have a few live games on TV during the season from the top division. Then lets be realistc about forgoing a couple of the few Premier games to accomodate putting a First Division game or two on. The viewer figures for a first division game surely wouldn't interest any broadcaster.
I am an LoI supporter but being honest unless its a late in the season, something at stake game, like Limerick vs Shels last season, I probably wouldnt be too interested in watching a First Division game either.

Sorry, but it makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
As for should he have said it to the national press? Of course he shouldn't.

[passerrby]

The FAI are already foregoing 5m in revenue to get RTE to do the MNS show. How much extra would it be worth for them to show the 1st division?

5m to promote 10 teams is not value for money

[Youths4Ever]

BRAVO

One of the things which has always been fundementally wrong with Irish society is we reward failure and superficial victim complexes which serve only to create a pointless level playing field of averageness for all. Thus the cream of the crop in terms of Irish talent across all sectors of society have a ball and chain made up of parish pumps and the isolated connected to their feet dragging them back. O'Socialism.

There is a Parish Pump mindset among the First Div Clubs were they are somehow not getting the respect they should. Firstly, the only aim of a First Division Club should to do their best not to be one anymore. That's it.

People who take issue Fran Gavin's refreshingly honest comments are the same people who have us building Western Rail Corridors between villages in the West of Ireland while the Dublin Rail DART/Communter system is bursting at the seams...the same mentality which has every passenger into Knock Airport being susidised by the taxpayers for 290 Euro each so people in the rural Mayo can feel loved...the same reason why cities like Cork and Limerick remain underdeveloped while villages in Roscommon like Boyle have the best of everything and are still ****holes...the same reason we pour billions into the Irish language while our schools turn out kids who have appalling English language and grammar skill.

We have to get over this mindset in this country, especially LOI football if we are to move anything in this country forward. The days of rewarding failure has to end, well said Fran Gavin - should be running the country, let alone the LOI.

Firstly I like to point out that I some what agree with Fran Gavin the standard in most games of the 1st division is not good enough for live tv but then again either is some of the games of the premier division that are shown. As pointed out not a lot of difference in quality between bottom four of premier division and top 3-4 in the first.

the majority of first division fans realise that the premier division will always get more coverage than the first division all most people asking for is help promoting the first division 5-10 mins on MNS would help in this and not comments like those from Fran Gavin.

How hard will it be to sell advertising boards after the comment oh yeah buy some advertising from us but you will never be on tv or get national press coverage.

As for the non football comments Dublin has always gotten money before anywhere else in this country. A "Dublin Rail DART/Communter system is bursting at the seams" at least you have the option of public transport personally have to travel min 15-20 by car mins to get to a bus or train station. Why should rural Ireland not have a rail link between towns without having to travel to Dublin first. Your short minded and ignorant view of anything outside the pale is what is really wrong with this country.

Before anybody gives to me about bashing people from Dublin I have no problem with people from Dublin expect those with a short view of anything outside the pale like Boh So Good seems to display the same way as if someone from Wexford started lamenting anything outside of Wexford.

[mypost]

I'd be fairly sure all the prize money is subsidised by the national team.

I'm sure, the tv companies who show live games and highlights contribute to the prize money as well, along with all other official league sponsors.

Every game in England is covered every week in some form, from the PL down to League 2. Every club earns the right to be shown.

I would prefer more goals on MNS to be shown, rather than Collins analysing what error the Sligo right back made this week. :rolleyes: