Roy Keane interview in the Times

[Greenbod]

cause if we had a few more like him in the team in saipan instead of the windy b***ards we had we could have surprised a few people at that tournament.

Yea, they would have been really surprised, when nobody turned up!

[eirebhoy]

I repeat what has this got to do with the current Irish team? Should we start threads on Charlie Hurley or Paddy Roche? There are a number of threads already on Keane in the World Football Forum.

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=103340

[Razors left peg]

I repeat what has this got to do with the current Irish team? Should we start threads on Charlie Hurley or Paddy Roche? There are a number of threads already on Keane in the World Football Forum.

Its not that long ago since we had long running thread about Dave Langan and nobody had any issue with that.

[Stuttgart88]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Keane say that he accepted many of his signings were mediocre but he needed bodies and subsequently having a lot of players not playing naturally led to discontent. Then he goes on to criticise Clarke for saying that players were unhappy?

Anyway, my recollection is that what Clarke said is that all Keane did was shout at people. Clarke may have had experience of it or may have been told by his mates at the club. He didn't need to have been there. Cheap shot by Keane and shows he doesn't take criticism well.

I thought Keane's comments about Ellis (who put in £25 million of his own money into the cluab and actually offered Keane a new contract) were a bit daft. Contrary to the view above that he was right to walk away, it just goes to show that Keane has no respect for authority and that any potential club owner would be mad to hire him.

In my opinion Ellis was perfectly entitled to ask why the club manager doesn't live near Sunderland. Quinn doesn't have a day-to-day involvement with the playing side so he can live where where he likes.

Personally I've little time for Keane (on the basis of articles like this anyway) but then again by all accounts Lance Armstrong is an utterly horrible character. Doesn't mean he wasn't great.

[John83]

His comments on clive Clare were bang out of order


Im a big Keane fan but have to agree on that one
I agreed wholeheartedly on that when I saw the quote. In the article, he mentions that he's ****ed at Clarke for an interview he gave claiming Keane had lost the dressing room. That may be the source of it. Still in poor taste though.

[Brendan 82]

Keane's lack of people skills were not such a big deal when he was a player. As a manager they are his downfall

[Guts&Glory]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Keane say that he accepted many of his signings were mediocre but he needed bodies and subsequently having a lot of players not playing naturally led to discontent. Then he goes on to criticise Clarke for saying that players were unhappy?

Anyway, my recollection is that what Clarke said is that all Keane did was shout at people. Clarke may have had experience of it or may have been told by his mates at the club. He didn't need to have been there. Cheap shot by Keane and shows he doesn't take criticism well.

I thought Keane's comments about Ellis (who put in £25 million of his own money into the cluab and actually offered Keane a new contract) were a bit daft. Contrary to the view above that he was right to walk away, it just goes to show that Keane has no respect for authority and that any potential club owner would be mad to hire him.

In my opinion Ellis was perfectly entitled to ask why the club manager doesn't live near Sunderland. Quinn doesn't have a day-to-day involvement with the playing side so he can live where where he likes.
Personally I've little time for Keane (on the basis of articles like this anyway) but then again by all accounts Lance Armstrong is an utterly horrible character. Doesn't mean he wasn't great.


Quinn is the Chairman running the business side of things, how can he do that properly from Dublin???????

[tetsujin1979]

Quinn is the Chairman running the business side of things, how can he do that properly from Dublin???????

not every business manager lives near said buisness

[soccerc]

Quinn is the Chairman running the business side of things, how can he do that properly from Dublin???????

Since Short bought out Drumaville, Quinn is chairman in name only.

[OwlsFan]

Its not that long ago since we had long running thread about Dave Langan and nobody had any issue with that.

Because it was about his service to Ireland. This, on the other hand, is about Keane's role in leaving a Premiership club - not a smidgeon about Ireland as far as I can see. Anyway, the powers that be have decided that this is relevant to the Irish team and who am I to question this ;)

[paul_oshea]

Keane's lack of people skills were not such a big deal when he was a player. As a manager they are his downfall

exactly, well said brendan.

[smasher]

Isnt it obvious that since Keane left Sunderland they are doing fine. Is that not proof enough.
He couldnt handle it , end of story.

[seanfhear]

Isnt it obvious that since Keane left Sunderland they are doing fine. Is that not proof enough.
He couldnt handle it , end of story.
Yes and its no harm to let him know it either.

Roy if your reading your a bit of a gob****e.

Its for your own good Roy because like some famous/powerful people you have to be told how it is every now and again.
Pleased to be of service.

[Wolfie]

Yes and its no harm to let him know it either.

Roy if your reading your a bit of a gob****e.

Its for your own good Roy because like some famous/powerful people you have to be told how it is every now and again.
Pleased to be of service.

Jaysus - you put Keane straight there, tough guy.

Why don't you post your name and address up to give him a right to reply?

[SunderlandBohs]

Have you read the article??

He pegged it when Short was doing a missus on his case wondering where he was and why he didn't live in Sunderland with his family.

This despite Quinn, Short and Drumaville all living away from Sunderland.

Keane left for the same reason Rafa is having so much hassle at Liverpool (and I ain't a Liverpool fan) he could see the writing on the wall with Short on his case, questioing his signings, his motives etc.

I applaud him for leaving rather than be bossed by Short and sitting palying waiting game potentially to be sacked and taking his severence pay unlike so many others in the game.
What a pile of rubbish Gut & Glory!!

Short was on his case cause of bad results. He never turned up for training. His tactics were terrible and predictable. His coaching methods were shocking. And the way he treated players was disgraceful. He wasted ,what looked at the time, 40m of Shorts money. We were second bottom after losing to the mighty Bolton Wanderers at home 4-1. He called players weak for not moving up to Sunderland when he wouldn't do it himself. As a manager he should have moved up to the North East. And he didn't want people to question his abilty when we were heading back to the Championship. And with the same team Ricky Sbragia has taken to mid-table and look a hell of lot better. What Keane did at the club was good but Denis Smith and Peter Reid did a lot better under different circumstance and a lot less money. So this nonsense that Keane did a brilliant job at Sunderland is just ridculous! He failed where so many have before him. The easy part is getting out of the Championship the hard part was turning us into a Premiership force. What he said about Clive Clarke was just sick!!

P.S What is this doing in the Ireland forum anyway?

[RogerMilla]

What he said about Clive Clarke was just sick!!



nail..on...head..hit....

[kingdom hoop]

He never turned up for training.

I presume that's true but I'm having trouble believing it........




Is it really true?

[SunderlandBohs]

I presume that's true but I'm having trouble believing it........




Is it really true?
Thursday and Friday were the only days he'd show up. Left it to Tony Loughlin the rest of the week.

[Fergie's Son]

Evidently Dunphy savaged Keane in an article this weekend. Anyone have a link to it?

[irishfan86]

Thursday and Friday were the only days he'd show up. Left it to Tony Loughlin the rest of the week.

That's incredible when you consider the wages he was probably on, and the kind of money he was throwing around in the transfer market.

Whatever about letting a manager get on with a job, if I was Short I'd have been giving him calls to get out there as well!

2 days a week of involvement with the first team at the Premiership level?

This isn't a pub team FFS

[DeLorean]

I agree that Keane left himself down in not seeing this season through (at the very least) at Sunderland. However all this talk about he's proven not to be able to handle a Premier Lge team, he should have learned his trade with a lesser club, he's proven to be a bad manager cos he can't deal with people- I'm sorry but I think this is complete and utter horsesh!t. He took over at a team who were second bottom of the Championship and left them second bottom of the Premier League having finished relatively comfortably in 15th the season before. Whether he spent money or not this was a terrific achievement and the fact that they have done ok since he left only proves that he left the club in a fairly strong position.

[OwlsFan]

He took over at a team who were second bottom of the Championship and left them second bottom of the Premier League

They were second from bottom after only 4 games when he took them over in August (i.e. the season had barely started) so all this "took them from the bottom to the top" is pure hyperbole.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I agree that Keane left himself down in not seeing this season through (at the very least) at Sunderland. However all this talk about he's proven not to be able to handle a Premier Lge team, he should have learned his trade with a lesser club, he's proven to be a bad manager cos he can't deal with people- I'm sorry but I think this is complete and utter horsesh!t. He took over at a team who were second bottom of the Championship and left them second bottom of the Premier League having finished relatively comfortably in 15th the season before. Whether he spent money or not this was a terrific achievement and the fact that they have done ok since he left only proves that he left the club in a fairly strong position.

Took over a team after 5 games who'd just won their last. Spent more net then anyone else in that league on players on very high championship wages to get promoted. Did well but was undoubtedly bankrolled that season. Spent a fortune in the PL and scraped into 15th having been in a relegation scrap most of the season. Spent another fortune and then buggered off with them in the bottom 3. Terrific achievment? By whose standards?

I know it's heresy to criticise the golden son on one side of the fence but some of the defence of his record that's been provided since he left Sunderland has been laugahable in the extreme....

[seanfhear]

Jaysus - you put Keane straight there, tough guy.

Why don't you post your name and address up to give him a right to reply?
Calm down Roy

I thought that might smoke you out!!

Well you are either Roy or one of his bitches!!

[DeLorean]

Took over a team after 5 games who'd just won their last. Spent more net then anyone else in that league on players on very high championship wages to get promoted. Did well but was undoubtedly bankrolled that season. Spent a fortune in the PL and scraped into 15th having been in a relegation scrap most of the season. Spent another fortune and then buggered off with them in the bottom 3. Terrific achievment? By whose standards?

I know it's heresy to criticise the golden son on one side of the fence but some of the defence of his record that's been provided since he left Sunderland has been laugahable in the extreme....

Plenty managers have spent lots and won fcuk all. How much money have Sunderland made by being in the Premier Lge? TV rights, prize money, extra attendances at matches, etc. I'd say it'd go a long way towards repaying those transfer deals...and presumably the fans are much happier than looking up at Newcastle and Boro and the rest.

[Razors left peg]

If any other former Irish international did the same job at Sunderland as Keane did people would be falling all overthemselves praising him and saying that he is a definate future Ireland manager. But because of his history some people cannot wait to see him fail and will jump at any chance to have a go at him. Simple fact is though that the vast majority of fans in Landsdowne Road were delighted that he was back when he returned under Kerr and he remains very popular with these fans.

I did say at the start when I posted the interview in The Times that it wasnt going to change anybodies opinion of him one way or the other:D

[eirebhoy]

Because it was about his service to Ireland. This, on the other hand, is about Keane's role in leaving a Premiership club - not a smidgeon about Ireland as far as I can see. Anyway, the powers that be have decided that this is relevant to the Irish team and who am I to question this ;)
I just think if someone opened a thread (for example) discussing one of our ex-players' fondness for the drink there'd be no problems with it being in this forum. Because Keane is world famous doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss him in the Ireland forum.

[Superhoops]

........ Simple fact is though that the vast majority of fans in Landsdowne Road were delighted that he was back when he returned under Kerr and he remains very popular with these fans.....

Your opinion or fact? If the latter, have you a source?

IMO it was never better than 50-50 and when he failed to contibute anything on his return is was a lot less.

[bennocelt]

If any other former Irish international did the same job at Sunderland as Keane did people would be falling all overthemselves praising him and saying that he is a definate future Ireland manager. But because of his history some people cannot wait to see him fail and will jump at any chance to have a go at him. Simple fact is though that the vast majority of fans in Landsdowne Road were delighted that he was back when he returned under Kerr and he remains very popular with these fans.

I did say at the start when I posted the interview in The Times that it wasnt going to change anybodies opinion of him one way or the other:D

Like myself, I was always a big Roy fan, but I have to admit i was let down by him walking out on sunderland. He cant have it both ways - playing the tough guy talking about respect - then he leaves sudnerland in the lurch the first hint of problems with over 20 rubbish signings that would be difficult to sell

[Razors left peg]

Like myself, I was always a big Roy fan, but I have to admit i was let down by him walking out on sunderland. He cant have it both ways - playing the tough guy talking about respect - then he leaves sudnerland in the lurch the first hint of problems with over 20 rubbish signings that would be difficult to sell

Yes but Im sure u dont think he did a terrible job at Sunderland either. Dont get me wrong I dont think he did brilliantly there but as Ive said earlier in this thread I think he did a good job for his first job in management and will improve for the experience

[Razors left peg]

Your opinion or fact? If the latter, have you a source?

IMO it was never better than 50-50 and when he failed to contibute anything on his return is was a lot less.

It was far from 50 - 50. I was in the North terrace on his first night back and there was one bloke holding up a sign saying "Keane Judas", that guy got more abuse from the fans than Keane did. And later in the game when Keane almost scored the majority of the stadium were chanting his name.
And to say he failed to contribute anything on his return is just plain wrong and shows that ur dislike of the man distorts your view of his performances. The one game against France in Landsdowne in particular he was very very good and gave it everything he had, admitidly he wasnt as good as he had been in the past but he was still one our best players

[eirebhoy]

Yeh he was motm in his last game for Ireland, Man Utd (vs Liverpool) and Celtic. Not a bad way to go out.

[geysir]

I did say at the start when I posted the interview in The Times that it wasnt going to change anybodies opinion of him one way or the other:D
Might also have something to do with the lack of mature change evident in Roy to affect any change in public perceptions.


If any other former Irish international did the same job at Sunderland as Keane did people would be falling all overthemselves praising him and saying that he is a definate future Ireland manager.
Mick McCarthy did a good solid job in Sunderland with petty cash and wipes the floor with Roy in a pound for pound match.
But no one was calling for Mick to be reinstalled with Ireland

But because of his history some people cannot wait to see him fail and will jump at any chance to have a go at him. Simple fact is though that the vast majority of fans in Landsdowne Road were delighted that he was back when he returned under Kerr and he remains very popular with these fans.
Popularity with an ex player amongst fans can only go so far to affect the level of popularity as a manager or even as a pundit.
If Roy was able to shed 10 years I would be delighted to see Keane at CM;)

[Razors left peg]

Might also have something to do with the lack of mature change evident in Roy to affect any change in public perceptions.




Many would say that our Roy doesnt need to change:D

[Stuttgart88]

Mick McCarthy did a good solid job in Sunderland with petty cash and wipes the floor with Roy in a pound for pound match.Can anyone argue with that - purely objectively if such a thing is possible with these two being discussed?


OK, I'll start - I think Mick did better than solid. I also think Mick had a decent head start on Keane, having been a manager for much longer beforehand.

It seems that Mick's style is to get the players to trust and like him. It seemed to work with certain players, breeding loyalty. It appears that Roy couldn't care less about perception and would prefer if players feared him.

I'd say that this may work with some but Keane lacked the savvy to recognise what types of personality this works for and for what types it doesn't. I think Roy has worked under 2 great managers - Clough and Ferguson. Both were massive characters and very headstrong. However, the impression I get is that Keane thinks this is the only way and that he has probably not recognised how each of these managed, probably subtly and with a degree of wit, to get the best out of non "alpha male" type characters (for want of a better term).

One thing that impresses me about Trap (according to himself anyway!) is that he recognises which players need which type of management.

[Razors left peg]

Can anyone argue with that - purely objectively if such a thing is possible with these two being discussed?


OK, I'll start - I think Mick did better than solid. I also think Mick had a decent head start on Keane, having been a manager for much longer beforehand.

It seems that Mick's style is to get the players to trust and like him. It seemed to work with certain players, breeding loyalty. It appears that Roy couldn't care less about perception and would prefer if players feared him.

I'd say that this may work with some but Keane lacked the savvy to recognise what types of personality this works for and for what types it doesn't. I think Roy has worked under 2 great managers - Clough and Ferguson. Both were massive characters and very headstrong. However, the impression I get is that Keane thinks this is the only way and that he has probably not recognised how each of these managed, probably subtly and with a degree of wit, to get the best out of non "alpha male" type characters (for want of a better term).

One thing that impresses me about Trap (according to himself anyway!) is that he recognises which players need which type of management.

could we say that Keane has a similar attitude to players that Rafa Benitez does?

[Stuttgart88]

No, I think Raf is starstruck by Gerrard and overly accomodating with some others. I think Rafa is more discriminatory - you're either in or you're out, and not just wrt Keane. I do think that Rafa is just as disrespectful of authority as Keane though.

[EastTerracer]

It was far from 50 - 50. I was in the North terrace on his first night back and there was one bloke holding up a sign saying "Keane Judas", that guy got more abuse from the fans than Keane did. And later in the game when Keane almost scored the majority of the stadium were chanting his name.

My own memory of this game is that many many people didn't want to boo an Irish player so sat on their hands and said nothing. When some of the fans chanted Keane's name it may have appeared that "the majority" were delighted to have him back but I think I'd share Superhoops view that it was closer to 50-50.

It's a bit like the media reaction to the half-time booing in Croke Park two weeks ago - it was reported as "Ireland were booed off at half-time" when those of us who were there know that it was a relatively small section of the crowd who actually booed. How does a silent majority make itself heard?

[bennocelt]

Yes but Im sure u dont think he did a terrible job at Sunderland either. Dont get me wrong I dont think he did brilliantly there but as Ive said earlier in this thread I think he did a good job for his first job in management and will improve for the experience

not a terrible job, but not so good either - lets be honest, he bought some shocking players, really dire stuff
Also spent well over 40 million, which should really be mid table, or pushing for europe expectations

[eirebhoy]

He did buy a lot of really bad players but I think he left Sunderland with a good team.

[DeLorean]

There is a lot of rubbish there but he had to pay over the odds to try to get Sunderland to where they want to be. I remember watching the Derby West Brom playoff final and they were saying that it was the most valuable match in history with increased Premier League prize money and TV rights and all that stuff. It was worth over £60m to Derby for winning it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_div_1/6689971.stm
Well Sunderland were also promoted that year and have maintained their Premier League status so presumably he hasn't cost the club a great deal financially.

That said his signings at Premier League level should have been better and I'm not saying he was faultless. Basically he left the club in a much stronger position than when he took over and I think that's generally how a manager is assessed.

[geysir]

but he had to pay over the odds to try to get Sunderland to where they want to be

so presumably he hasn't cost the club a great deal financially

Basically he left the club in a much stronger position than when he took over and I think that's generally how a manager is assessed.
You appear to be contradicting yourself there.

I don't know much about the Sunderland finances but the owners had to weaken their share value in order to allow more cash (£25m?) to be pumped in.
Suggests to me that the board allowed Keane's purchase spree and associated wages to far outweigh income.

Not much use to anybody if a club spends way beyond its means to achieve a certain stability and the manager gets the hump because basically he has run into the brickwall of his limitations. That brickwall of his limitations is partly the normal learning curve of a new manager, but Roy's wall is reinforced with a ton of his own baggage.

[Drumcondra 69er]

If any other former Irish international did the same job at Sunderland as Keane did people would be falling all overthemselves praising him and saying that he is a definate future Ireland manager. But because of his history some people cannot wait to see him fail and will jump at any chance to have a go at him. Simple fact is though that the vast majority of fans in Landsdowne Road were delighted that he was back when he returned under Kerr and he remains very popular with these fans.
I did say at the start when I posted the interview in The Times that it wasnt going to change anybodies opinion of him one way or the other:D

Rubbish. There's one ex Ireland legend who's finished 4th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and mid table in 6 Premier League seasons as a manager and people nearly had a heart attack when he was touted for the Ireland job before Trap got it. Mainly because he has a reputation as a cheque book manager who rubs people the wrong way after a period of time. What's the difference between him and RK other then the fact he managed to get top 6 and above consistently when he was spending and over achieved when he had a limited budget?

Your second point is also garbage, the vast majority of people from Cork and Man U fans were delighted to see him back, there was plenty of others who buttoned it as they wouldn't boo an Irish player at an international. In my experience there's a lot of antipathy towards him from LOI fans for example, he was roundly booed at Dalymount when Sunderland played Bohs a couple of years back.

[smasher]

Rubbish. There's one ex Ireland legend who's finished 4th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and mid table in 6 Premier League seasons as a manager and people nearly had a heart attack when he was touted for the Ireland job before Trap got it. Mainly because he has a reputation as a cheque book manager who rubs people the wrong way after a period of time. What's the difference between him and RK other then the fact he managed to get top 6 and above consistently when he was spending and over achieved when he had a limited budget?

Your second point is also garbage, the vast majority of people from Cork and Man U fans were delighted to see him back, there was plenty of others who buttoned it as they wouldn't boo an Irish player at an international. In my experience there's a lot of antipathy towards him from LOI fans for example, he was roundly booed at Dalymount when Sunderland played Bohs a couple of years back.

Yes.
Many of the people I know who are Keane fans are bar stool experts who do nothing to support football at a local level

[youngirish]

I remember reading that the famous food critic A. A. Gill after being ejected by Gordon Ramsey from one of his restaurants for previously giving him a negative review described the erratic chef to the media, "Ramsay is a wonderful chef, just a really second-rate human being".

That quote has always reminded me of Roy Keane and that article enforces the view I've long since held about the man. "Keane is a great footballer, just a really second-rate human being." Now that he can no longer astound us with his heart, ability and determination on the football field the glaring deficiencies in his personality have become only too obvious for everyone to see.

[Wolfie]

Yes and its no harm to let him know it either.

Roy if your reading your a bit of a gob****e.

Its for your own good Roy because like some famous/powerful people you have to be told how it is every now and again.
Pleased to be of service.


Calm down Roy

I thought that might smoke you out!!

Well you are either Roy or one of his bitches!!

On the contrary - I don't have much time for Keane, the person.

If you can fail to see the idiocy of anonamously addressing anyone directly on a Football Forum and calling him, or anyone for that matter, a gobsh*te - its neither an act of strength or very clever.

I'll make an exception in your case though - YOU'RE a prize GOBSH*TE!!!

[DeLorean]

You appear to be contradicting yourself there.

How exactly?


I don't know much about the Sunderland finances

I don't either I was just speculating


he has run into the brickwall of his limitations

But weren't Sunderland in a similar position for most of last season and they managed to pull themselves out of it. They have a stronger side this year and would have probably done the same. He was under more pressure last season cos he had it all to prove so I don't get this brickwall of his limitations stuff. I'm in complete agreement that he left in bad circumstances caused by himself and any club should be slow to take him on again. I hope I'm not "contradicting" myself again!!

[geysir]

BL, you wrote that Sunderland spent over the odds
but you also wrote that he hadn't cost them a great deal financially.

Spending over the odds to get to the epl where they still did not balance the books and the need increased to dilute the share value radically in order to raise cash.

[DeLorean]

BL, you wrote that Sunderland spent over the odds
but you also wrote that he hadn't cost them a great deal financially.

I know but I was just speculating that the money gained from being in the Premier League (£60m +) may have made most of it back, clearly not though by the looks of it

[geysir]

Sunderland introduced a novel dimension to English league football transfer business, they bought redundancy.