"Them Derry Wans" not paying their Dues?

[EalingGreen]

(Pls move if this is the wrong section, btw)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/7893243.stm
Dungannon chase McGinn deal cash

Dungannon Swifts say they will take legal action to force Derry City to inform them of the transfer fee that the Candystripes got for Niall McGinn.

The Swifts say they are entitled to 20% of the cash that Derry received from Celtic for the Northern Ireland player.

However, Dungannon chairman Jarlath Faloon insists that Derry have so far refused to divulge the fee or forward any cash from the December transfer.

"We have issued a writ today to the High Court in Belfast," said Faloon.

Dungannon are chasing their slice of the transfer fee because McGinn played for the Swifts before moving to the Brandywell.

"We have also reported Derry to the Irish FA and Football Association of Ireland," Faloon told BBC Sport Interactive.

"We have written to Derry City and told them repeatedly since December, asking for details of the deal between themselves and Celtic and secondly, their proposals to pay us.

"We haven't received any answers to our phone calls or any replies whatsoever to numerous correspondence.

"I am talking about maybe five letters, asking what the terms of the deal were.

"We have a written agreement with them (that we are entitled to the 20% of the transfer fee)."

Faloon said that Dungannon had issued "a writ for a declaration that they tell us what the deal was".

The Swifts chairman added that he had informed Derry City on Friday that legal proceedings would be issued if there was no contact from the Candystripes over the weekend.

Celtic signed McGinn for an undisclosed fee in mid-December although there was speculation that the sum was in the region of £200,000.

Whatever the fee was, Faloon insists that the Swifts should have received their money "right away".

"Ryan McIlmoyle was transferred from us to Limavady and there was a 20% sell-on clause to Institute.

"That was all done within two days. We gave the money to Limavady and they immediately paid Institute. That's the way it's done in the Irish League."

[Sam_Heggy]

They have offered €30k for Jay O'Shea also from what im told so if they can't stump up for the McGinn deal then, where does the €30k come from?

[Mr A]

Isn't owing transfer monies a breach of licensing? Not that a trifle like that actual matters.

[Trainee]

have Fifa not changed not rules where derry owe nothing, its celtic that have to pay companisation,unless cetic infomed derry that the fee they got included money owed to other clubs.

[OneRedArmy]

I'm sure we wouldn't be at that kind of thing, eh Stu? :)

[Aaron]

They have offered €30k for Jay O'Shea also from what im told so if they can't stump up for the McGinn deal then, where does the €30k come from?

Who said we cant stump it up? It seems we are dragging our heels on these deals

[Candystripe]

We already got our licence so feck em, they can wait like we make all our feeder clubs wait.

FFS until Kenny got hold of him McGinn couldn't even get on the Dungannon cup final squad months before we signed him.

We just gave them Callaghan. Sounds fair to me.

[EalingGreen]

have Fifa not changed not rules where derry owe nothing, its celtic that have to pay companisation,unless cetic infomed derry that the fee they got included money owed to other clubs.

Possible, I suppose, but in that case, why don't Derry simply point that out in a letter to the Swifts?

Besides, you'd expect Swifts to be up-to-speed on the regulations following the recent McIlmoyle transfer. In which case, they'd be chasing Celtic, not DCFC?

[DmanDmythDledge]

have Fifa not changed not rules where derry owe nothing, its celtic that have to pay companisation,unless cetic infomed derry that the fee they got included money owed to other clubs.
You are correct. It's the responsibility of the buying club (Celtic) to distribute the transfer fee appropriately.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=44

The responsibility to calculate the payment rests with the New Club at all times, irrespective of whether it is training compensation or solidarity payment

[Mr A]

Right, that's Celtic out of the SPL on licensing grounds then.

[thischarmingman]

Right, that's Celtic out of the SPL on licensing grounds then.

Cue row between Harps and Shels fans over who will be replacing them.

[EalingGreen]

We already got our licence so feck em, they can wait like we make all our feeder clubs wait.


And should Celtic adopt the same attitude to their "feeder club"(!) over the transfers of McGinn and McCourt, no doubt you'll take the same "understanding" attitude...;)

[Sam_Heggy]

Cue row between Harps and Shels fans over who will be replacing them.

Its obviously us, no argument.
only thing is will the airline company be happy when only pay 12% (when coming out of examinership) of the huge bill we run up when travelling to Scotland every second week?

[EalingGreen]

You are correct. It's the responsibility of the buying club (Celtic) to distribute the transfer fee appropriately.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=44

Surely those Regulations you cite relate to "Training Compensation" i.e. for players whose youth means the normal contractual terms for a Transfer don't apply?

With McGinn, we're talking about a sell-on clause relating to a move where a where a transfer fee applies, not a compensation fee.

[blackholesun]

Disgracefull if true, especially after how they messed around UCD last season after Salmon went to Kilmarnock.

:mad:

bhs

[thischarmingman]

only thing is will the airline company be happy when only pay 12% (when coming out of examinership) of the huge bill we run up when travelling to Scotland every second week?

You can be like these guys:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/4611804/Spanish-rugby-team-plays-in-English-league-to-cut-costs.html



Disgracefull if true, especially after how they messed around UCD last season after Salmon went to Kilmarnock.


Not sure what the whole affair has to do with marine wildlife to be honest.

[Candystripe]

Blah blah blah.

Like always, if it is up to Derry to pay the "undisclosed fee" like always we will wait until the last possible minute to pay. :)

BTW EG, there may be news soon that Celtic could be a feeder club for us.If it's true the McGinn transfer had more than money involved which could be the reason D Swifts havn't recieved any money yet.

It's not as straight forward as the UCD Sammon deal were we paid up within a year. ;)

[OneRedArmy]

Given our prediliction for accepting friendlies against Sellthick in lieu of cash, I'm not sure Dungannon will get very far as the value will only be fixed after the matches take place and gate receipts have been totted up etc.

[MariborKev]

Blah blah blah.

Like always, if it is up to Derry to pay the "undisclosed fee" like always we will wait until the last possible minute to pay. :)

To be honest, I'm very disappointed with the club.

We are rapidly gaining a reputation for not paying our dues with respect to transfers. This is the one with the highest profile but you will be aware of at least two others in the last year with respect to DCFC.

And yet we are lashing out money on new players:rolleyes:

[Candystripe]

To be honest, I'm very disappointed with the club.

We are rapidly gaining a reputation for not paying our dues with respect to transfers. This is the one with the highest profile but you will be aware of at least two others in the last year with respect to DCFC.

And yet we are lashing out money on new players:rolleyes:

It is mind blowing TBF! :confused:

[DmanDmythDledge]

Surely those Regulations you cite relate to "Training Compensation" i.e. for players whose youth means the normal contractual terms for a Transfer don't apply?

With McGinn, we're talking about a sell-on clause relating to a move where a where a transfer fee applies, not a compensation fee.
My mistake then, didn't know it was about a sell-on clause. Typical disgraceful behaviour from Derry as usual then.

[pineapple stu]

I'm sure we wouldn't be at that kind of thing, eh Stu? :)
Bart, nooooo!!!!!!

What?

Sorry, force of habit. Lisa, nooooo!!!!!!


Nice to see our debt collection is better than Dungannon's anyway. You don't mess with our Dick. :)

[OneRedArmy]

Bart, nooooo!!!!!!

What?

Sorry, force of habit. Lisa, nooooo!!!!!!


Nice to see our debt collection is better than Dungannon's anyway. You don't mess with our Dick. :)The threat of withholding prize money works wonders.

Dungannon have no such leverage with the FAI.

[HarpoJoyce]

Disgracefull if true, especially after how they messed around UCD last season after Salmon went to Kilmarnock.

:mad:

bhs


My mistake then, didn't know it was about a sell-on clause. Typical disgraceful behaviour from Derry as usual then.

You're both right, Derry City have consistently reneged on their payment agreements or attempted to float accepted rules of transfer.

In the 1996-97 season Derry signed James Keddy from UCD, Gavin Dykes (?) from Galway Utd.(?) and one other star of LOI. They then turned around and insisted that these players available to them under the Bosman rulings and that no monies were due to the players' previous clubs.
Derry City FC drew an International border that day alright.

[Martinho II]

You're both right, Derry City have consistently reneged on their payment agreements or attempted to float accepted rules of transfer.

In the 1996-97 season Derry signed James Keddy from UCD, Gavin Dykes (?) from Galway Utd.(?) and one other star of LOI. They then turned around and insisted that these players available to them under the Bosman rulings and that no monies were due to the players' previous clubs.
Derry City FC drew an International border that day alright.

gavin dykes signed from sligo rovers

[DmanDmythDledge]

From setantasports.com (http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/Football/2009/02/17/LOI-Derry-deny-withholding-McGinn-cash/gnid-40610/):


Derry City have denied claims by Dungannon Swifts that they are withholding 'sell-on' cash from Niall McGinn's move to Glasgow Celtic.

Dungannon issued proceedings in the High Court on Monday as they believe they are owed 20% of the reported €200,000 fee.

This is a percentage that was reportedly put in place when McGinn joined the League of Ireland side from Dungannon one year ago.

John Faloon, chairman with the Irish League side, says Derry have refused to hand over any cash or even divulge the final fee from McGinn's December move to Scotland.

"We have issued a writ to the High Court in Belfast," Faloon told The Star. "We have also reported Derry to the IFA and the Football Association of Ireland.

"We have written to Derry City repeatedly since December asking for details of the deal between themselves and Celtic and, secondly, their proposals to pay us. We haven't received any answers to our phone calls or any replies whatsoever to numerous correspondence."

Derry's chairman Pat McDaid has hit back, however, with sources at the Brandywell insisting that the matter was always going to be resolved soon.

"They are totally out of order and we are disappointed with Dungannon's attitude," McDaid lamented.

"Derry City will do its business privately and not enter a public debate. We do not wish to make this public."

[HarpoJoyce]

gavin dykes signed from sligo rovers

Thanks for the correction.

You guys havn't been stung by Derry have you?

[EalingGreen]

From setantasports.com (http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/Football/2009/02/17/LOI-Derry-deny-withholding-McGinn-cash/gnid-40610/):


Derry's chairman Pat McDaid has hit back, however, with sources at the Brandywell insisting that the matter was always going to be resolved soon.

Aye, "soon" as in "As soon as we receive a High Court Writ, but no sooner..."

"They are totally out of order and we are disappointed with Dungannon's attitude," McDaid lamented.

Aye, it's always "disappointing" when people ask you for money which you still owe them after several months. Why, Swifts even sent Letters to the club and phoned them, expecting them to reply: how "out-of-order" can you get?

"Derry City will do its business privately and not enter a public debate. We do not wish to make this public."

Absolutely. Would you like it becoming known publicly that you won't pay your Bills unless/until taken to Court?

Yet more Victimisation of Derry Folk...:eek:

[MariborKev]

They then turned around and insisted that these players available to them under the Bosman rulings and that no monies were due to the players' previous clubs.

That would have been players that were out of contract yes?

As you recall Harpo, we won the case. We are fully aware of the international border, what with losing 17.5%(now 15%) of gates receipts to HMRC.

*Richie Purdy was the other player FYI.

[HarpoJoyce]

That would have been players that were out of contract yes?

As you recall Harpo, we won the case. We are fully aware of the international border, what with losing 17.5%(now 15%) of gates receipts to HMRC.

*Richie Purdy was the other player FYI.

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks.

It was the only year you quoted the Bosman rulings which concerned International transfers. Those procedures were not used domestically.

I don't recall any outcome to a determination process/case.

[OneRedArmy]

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks.

It was the only year you quoted the Bosman rulings which concerned International transfers. Those procedures were not used domestically.

I don't recall any outcome to a determination process/case.This has absolutely no relevance to this thread. We shouldn't be apologizing for using the Bosman ruling to our favour (in any case, as was inevitable, the domestic rules came into line fairly quickly which supported our position).

Our alleged activities in respect of McGinn are a lot more worrying.

[OneRedArmy]

Yet more Victimisation of Derry Folk...:eek:just trying to inflict some payback on the Irish League.

Make a ridiculous point, get an equally ridiculous response....

[Krstic]

Yet more Victimisation of Derry Folk...:eek:

A wee bit like the victimisation of Belfast's (so called) Big 2. The usual hooliganism, then go threatening to start your own league because you're not used to getting punished.

Kettle, black, pot and all that crap.

[EalingGreen]

just trying to inflict some payback on the Irish League.

By punishing Dungannon Swifts, who weren't even in the Irish League when DCFC left....:rolleyes:


Make a ridiculous point, get an equally ridiculous response....
Er, no, my "victimisation" comment was ironic, you know, someone from Derry City coming over all aggrieved that Swifts had the temerity to ask for the money which they were owed for months. :rolleyes:

[Aaron]

By punishing Dungannon Swifts, who weren't even in the Irish League when DCFC left....:rolleyes:

Er, no, my "victimisation" comment was ironic, you know, someone from Derry City coming over all aggrieved that Swifts had the temerity to ask for the money which they were owed for months. :rolleyes:

******!! Read what our chairman said again and tell me where he is aggrieved at DSFC asking for their money?

[EalingGreen]

A wee bit like the victimisation of Belfast's (so called) Big 2. The usual hooliganism, then go threatening to start your own league because you're not used to getting punished.

Kettle, black, pot and all that crap.
Wow! How to get so much "whataboutery", mispresentation and irrelevance in so few words.

This thread was about DCFC not paying their dues until forced to - something for which it seems they've "form" for, if other posts on this thread are anything to go by.

As for the Big Two episode - there is a separate thread for that, it has nothing to do with this one and fwiw, I think Ralph was out of order in "throwing his toys out of the pram" over a punishment by the IFA which overall, I think was not immoderate, indeed was pretty much inevitable.

P.S. Any comment on the dispute between your club and Dungannon Swifts? :rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

******!! Read what our chairman said again and tell me where he is aggrieved at DSFC asking for their money?
Well maybe it's just me, but describing Swifts as having been "totally out of order" seemed a little bit of a clue.
As was bleating about this matter having been made "public" by Swifts, when it's not possible to issue a writ in secret.
And the absence of any explanation for the delay, never mind any contrition or apology, suggests that he doesn't feel DCFC have done anything wrong, therefore doesn't accept that Swifts should be taking the course they have.
Or did you discern that he was somehow happy about this latest turn of events?

[OneRedArmy]

By punishing Dungannon Swifts, who weren't even in the Irish League when DCFC left....:rolleyes: One irony detector on its way to Belshaft.


Er, no, my "victimisation" comment was ironic, you know, someone from Derry City coming over all aggrieved that Swifts had the temerity to ask for the money which they were owed for months. :rolleyes:Since you seem to know all the facts, how much did we get from Celtic? How much do we owe Dungannon? When was it due? Was the fee Derry received all cash in one installment/all cash over multiple installments/part cash and part friendlies?

I'm a shareholder and I've no idea btw.

[EalingGreen]

One irony detector on its way to Belshaft.

I can see why you've no need for the Irony Detector, when you clearly can't tell the difference between Irony and Sarcasm*...

* -Or was it simple Witlessness?


Since you seem to know all the facts,
No, I've never claimed to know all the facts.


how much did we get from Celtic?
No idea (other than the "£200k" speculation in the papers).


How much do we owe Dungannon?
According to the written agreement with DCFC which Swifts say they have, 20% of the transfer fee received from Celtic.


When was it due?
Before now, I'd say, hence the High Court Writ etc. In any case, at no point in the midst of his bluster did the DCFC Chairman claim that it was not yet due.


Was the fee Derry received all cash in one installment/all cash over multiple installments/part cash and part friendlies?

How do you expect me to know when Swifts don't even know? The whole point is that according to Swifts, DCFC haven't even shown them the basic courtesy of responding to numerous letters and calls enquiring as to this, never mind actually informing them of the amount. The Writ issued by Swifts is a Writ of Disclosure...:rolleyes:


I'm a shareholder and I've no idea btw.
Didn't know you were a shareholder, but I guessed the last bit...;)

[passerrby]

.
Since you seem to know all the facts, how much did we get from Celtic? How much do we owe Dungannon? When was it due? Was the fee Derry received all cash in one installment/all cash over multiple installments/part cash and part friendlies?

I'm a shareholder and I've no idea btw.

In fairness neither does the swifts thats why they have to take this action. it appears that a phone call may have averted this.

[Schumi]

A very weak statement from Derry. Boils down to "why are you complaining about the delay, we'll give you the money eventually".

[pineapple stu]

They've no choice. They basically told us they'd pay us the money if they had it. They don't have the money to pay Dungannon, so they can't pay it and have to stall.

[Burny89]

Thanks Stu, the fountain of knowledge on all of Derry City finances!

[John83]

Thanks Stu, the fountain of knowledge on all of Derry City finances!
I seem to remember a Drogheda fan saying something similar a couple of years ago.

More seriously, he is saying that a UCD official claims he was told that you hadn't a pot to **** in when we went looking for money from you. Now it looks like you can't pay another bill. That should be worrying.

[Aaron]

I seem to remember a Drogheda fan saying something similar a couple of years ago.

More seriously, he is saying that a UCD official claims he was told that you hadn't a pot to **** in when we went looking for money from you. Now it looks like you can't pay another bill. That should be worrying.

And when the **** was this UCD official on our board or see our finances? I gotta laugh at those taking the moral high ground on these issues, at the end of the day what we discuss is all speculation unless our club has oficially stated otherwise

[John83]

And when the **** was this UCD official on our board or see our finances?
I doubt he went to talk to your groundsman about the money you owed us.


...at the end of the day what we discuss is all speculation unless our club has oficially stated otherwiseWe're here because someone has stated you've avoided communication regarding money you owe. Either the nice man from Dungannon Swifts is lying or there's a pattern of evidence that you lot have money troubles. Given you're in the LoI, I'd be more surprised if you don't.

[MariborKev]

I gotta laugh at those taking the moral high ground on these issues, at the end of the day what we discuss is all speculation unless our club has oficially stated otherwise

Why?

Asking for money you are owed is hardly taking the moral high ground.

What is club going to say? " Ah,well actually they are right"

Last year's accounts show that we are hardly rolling in it. The chairman has gone on the record to say that we are cutting costs.

[passerrby]

it looks to the outsider that you are trying to avoid paying your bill and are treating dungannon whit a little contempt.. unless there is another side to this story

[pineapple stu]

And when the **** was this UCD official on our board or see our finances?
Who said he could see your finances or was on your board?

We asked your officials for money after the league game in August; the reply was (and I paraphrase) "We're not trying to be *****s here, we'd pay you if we could, but we don't have any money." Fairly straightforward.

[Candystripe]

FFS It's only a matter of weeks since McGinn went to Celtic.

You would think (like a DS fan on IL forums) that it's been a year.

We havn't even arranged a friendly date for the transfer, so why are Swifts being so impatient? Tut tut.