Ireland Fans' Charter?

[Stuttgart88]

For a while now I've noticed an element in the Irish support that I'm not happy with. Perhaps I'm only showing my age and I'm slow to adapt to change but some kind of "Ireland Fans Charter" might spell out the essence of what many of us think it is to be an Irish fan and encouarge behaviour fitting this.

Given that Mento and the YBIG boys have made such progress with the FAI wrt the Singing Section and other aspects, I'd wonder if it'sd be a good idea to have this charter printed in the matchday programme so all the "boo the team if they're not playing well" types know where they can go with this type of carry on. I'd like the players to be aware of some parts of it too.

What do people think?

Here's a few initial ideas for starters, in no particular order.


Ireland Fans' Charter:



Our role is to support the team and to be the team's "12th man".
Our good name at home & abroad has taken years to acquire and may only take a moment to lose. Behaviour likely to cost us our good reputation is not acceptable to any of us.
We may or may not have club allegiances, at home or abroad. Following Ireland has nothing to do with club football and we put aside our club allegiances while following Ireland.
We do not favour or disfavour any player, on our team or the opposition's, on the basis of his club or club history.
We are all in this together. Booing the players is not acceptable behaviour. Our role is to encourage and to be involved positively.
We are not here solely to be entertained. We are playing an active role alongside the players in achieving success.
We have our own songs and traditions. New songs are always welcome but we avoid singing songs with direct reference to political organisations.
We are not a big country and our ambitions are realistic and modest. We only expect that the players attempt to play to their best of their abilities. We recognise that mistakes occur.
We expect that every stakeholder in the team's progress will take all necessary steps and work hard to increase the likelihood of success.
We expect the players to understand that playing for their country is an honour and not a chore. No player has a right to be selected.
We expect the players to understand the expense & commitment it can take to support the team.
We expect our media to be objective in coverage of the national team.
We expect our media to promote coverage of the national team above coverage of UK football.

[Torn-Ado]

For a while now I've noticed an element in the Irish support that I'm not happy with. Perhaps I'm only showing may age and I'm slow to adapt to change but some kind of "Ireland Fans Charter" might spell out the essence of what many of us think it is to be an Irish fan and encouarge behaviour fitting this.

Given that Mento and the YBIG boys have made such progress with the FAI wrt the Singing Section and other aspects, I'd wonder if it'sd be a good idea to have this charter printed in the matchday programme so all the "boo the team if they're not playing well" types know where they can go with this type of carry on. I'd like the players to be aware of some parts of it too.

What do people think?

Here's a few initial ideas for starters, in no particular order.


Ireland Fans' Charter:


Our role is to support the team and to be the team's "12th man".
Our good name at home & abroad has taken years to acquire and may only take a moment to lose. Behaviour likely to cost us our good reputation is not acceptable to any of us.
We may or may not have club allegiances, at home or abroad. Following Ireland has nothing to do with club football and we put aside our club allegiances while following Ireland.
We do not favour or disfavour any player, on our team or the opposition's, on the basis of his club or club history.
We are all in this together. Booing the players is not acceptable behaviour. Our role is to encourage and to be involved positively.
We are not here solely to be entertained. We are playing an active role alongside the players in achieving success.
We are not a big country and our ambitions are realistic and modest. We only expect that the players attempt to play to their best of their abilities. We recognise that mistakes occur.
We expect that every stakeholder in the team's progress will take all necessary steps and work hard to increase the likelihood of success.
We expect the players to understand that playing for their country is an honour and not a chore. No player has a right to be selected.
We expect the players to understand the expense & commitment it can take to support the team.
We have our own songs and traditions. New songs are always welcome but we avoid singing songs with direct reference to political organisations.
We expect our media to be objective in coverage of the national team.
We expect our media to promote coverage of the national team above coverage of UK football.

Can't really disagree with anything written there.

[irishultra]

Agree 100% and also with this singing section I would support the cheering of any opposition player who is getting abuse from idiots for stupid reasons(like he played for a british soccer team)

Perhaps chanting his name? would be class i think:)

[Stuttgart88]

I was thinking of adding that we expect the players to respect authority, but think it might be covered in "take all necessary steps...".

Mods, for some reason I haven't been able to insert bullrt points or numbers from my laptop. Can someone edit to number or at least bullet point the items?

[Beavis]

It's great, fair play Suttgart. It has my signature:

Beavis O' Cornholio Bunghole McMurphy


I especially like the following line:
'We are not here solely to be entertained. We are playing an active role alongside the players in achieving success.' :cool:

[Mayo_Bhoy]

Cant really argue with most of this but totally unrealistic to expect fans to abide by a charter which most had nothing to do with drawing up. Good luck anyway but cant see it making an iota of difference. Just my two cents...not trying to be negative but....

[soccerc]

Cant really argue with most of this but totally unrealistic to expect fans to abide by a charter which most had nothing to do with drawing up. Good luck anyway but cant see it making an iota of difference. Just my two cents...not trying to be negative but....

Anyone with half a brain would understand that this is one persons view, it's out there for discussion and improvement.

Rather than a general criticism why can't you add or subtract from the initialpost and argue the pro's and cons instead of being so bloody negative

[SuperDub]

I totally agree as both in croke park and on away trips in recent years there has been a certain element creeping into the support that we do not need. A fans charter is certainly something that can remind us all on what kind of behaviour is expected of us as irish fans.

[Stuttgart88]

Cant really argue with most of this but totally unrealistic to expect fans to abide by a charter which most had nothing to do with drawing up. Good luck anyway but cant see it making an iota of difference. Just my two cents...not trying to be negative but....It's not a rule book, but it might just serve to remind some what I expect the majority expects and also to give those who agree with the "principles" something to present to the "wrong element" when push comes to the shove. The purpose in my mind is to highlight the "bad" behaviour and to have something tangible to rely on. In my ideal world there'd be some kind of endorsement - FAI, YBIG, foot.ie (anything but Alan Hunter :)) and I think a printed charter, standalone or in the match programme, could help.

Yes, the pouints above are my own but I freely invite anyone to argue for the removal or amendment to the list, or suggest additions. I have a very open mind & just wanted to put it out there.

[back of the net]

It's not a rule book, but it might just serve to remind some what I expect the majority expects and also to give those who agree with the "principles" something to present to the "wrong element" when push comes to the shove. The purpose in my mind is to highlight the "bad" behaviour and to have something tangible to rely on. In my ideal world there'd be some kind of endorsement - FAI, YBIG, foot.ie (anything but Alan Hunter :)) and I think a printed charter, standalone or in the match programme, could help.

Yes, the pouints above are my own but I freely invite anyone to argue for the removal or amendment to the list, or suggest additions. I have a very open mind & just wanted to put it out there.

fair play lad....very good idea

after being at the game on wed and hearing the disgraceful booing at half time and also the idiots behind me in the canal end chanting andy reids name, i think your logic and charter idea is very refreshing


at the end of the day whereas we may not all agree with each others points on certain threads on the forum with rgds to the national side, We are all ireland fans at the end of the day and we all should be united in getting behind the team when they are on the pitch

its got my vote lad...good work

[Docboy]

Sorry but to me it smacks a bit of the 'Nanny State' idea, all of the ideas are valid but do you really think having something written down will alter peoples mindset? It's like life in general you just have to ignore those that you don't agree with and move on. More often than not you'll find more of the good than the bad.

[Stuttgart88]

More often than not you'll find more of the good than the bad.I certainly agree with that in life, and most of your general point. This has been annoying me for ages and spelling it all out is a way of getting it off my chest, but as I say, they're not rules, just a way of letting the minority know what I think the majority feels.

[eirebhoy]

I certainly agree with that in life, and most of your general point. This has been annoying me for ages and spelling it all out is a way of getting it off my chest, but as I say, they're not rules, just a way of letting the minority know what I think the majority feels.
Exactly. It worked for the booing of Rangers players. Most people booing in that period didn't really think it was that big a deal. Then we had politicians come out against it and there was nothing but cheers to be heard vs Australia.

[Beal Feirste]

Terrible thread started by someone with 2 much time on their hands or someone with no friends to talk too,,,cant believe people replied agreeing with him.....GET A LIFE

[co. down green]

Terrible thread started by someone with 2 much time on their hands or someone with no friends to talk too,,,cant believe people replied agreeing with him.....GET A LIFE

I have every respect for Stuttgart88 and agree with the point of the thread. Especially regarding supporters getting behind the team, through thick and thin. ffs, i've been to many games over the last 20 years where i've been frustrated with tactics, player performances or the lack of support from the terraces. It's about supporting your country, its about making your voice heard when the lads on the pitch need a lift. Its about trying to channel your passion into the minds and hearts of the players, if they don't already know it.

How can you disagree with the 12th man concept, how can you disagree with the great work done by ybig and others in helping to inspire the boys on the pitch.

As far as i'm concerned, the boo-boys can go watch a sport that they have a genuine passion for.

[tetsujin1979]

Terrible thread started by someone with 2 much time on their hands or someone with no friends to talk too,,,cant believe people replied agreeing with him.....GET A LIFESo when someone tries to do something positive about the atmosphere (or lack thereof) at Ireland games, this is the best you can do?? A one line response on a message board? Come back when you have a better idea, or at the very least, present an alternative solution to an obvious problem

[Stuttgart88]

Terrible thread started by someone with 2 much time on their hands or someone with no friends to talk too,,,cant believe people replied agreeing with him.....GET A LIFE
Coming from a guy who visits a web forum at 5 past midnight on a Sunday don't you think that's a bit rich?

I hope your other 25 contributions to the forum were more constructive and frankly less insulting.

[bawn79]

I think the charter is a great idea. Cant really argue against any of your points.
This should be put in every programme (at every match, it can only be in the small print after the first few games))and the YBIG magazine.

[gspain]

Agree 100% well done.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Can't do any harm and you can't disagree with any of the points made.

Comparing a 'Fan's Charter' to nanny stateism is laughable. Is there anything being suggested people refrain from on that list that the dissenters would actually like to do?

Generally over the years we've policed ourselves as a group of supporters and long may that continue. A charther such as the above is only putting what generally goes on in writing and reiterating it which is no harm.

That said, I clicked onto this thread expecting to see something about the flight to Bari!

[paul_oshea]

I Think you would have the opinion from others that this could be a closed-shop elitist type group, that for non-regulars to matches, which unfortunately there seems to be a fair few of if they are behaving in this way, they would see this as a pompous arrogant group of supporters trying to talk down or else just think we are fools and have a laugh at it.

I do agree in principle, I just dont think writing down a set of "rules" is the right way to go about it.....

Not having a go, because i agree with what was written, its one of those subtleties you expect everyone to know and adhere too, but I just feel writing it down and making others read it, is not the best way forward.

[jmurphyc]

Great post and thread. Something really needs to be done about the level of apathy that is present at Ireland home games. The singing section is a great start but the amount of people who now boo when things aren't going our way is worrying. If something like this can be put in YBIG for each game then it would hopefully educate a certain percentage of people going to the games.

The booing really saddened me the other night. I expected it at the Cyprus game 18 months ago, but to hear it on Wednesday was infuriating. We're only halfway through our campaign, Trap hasn't had that much time to perfect his team, and yet people are happy to perfrom a retrograde action when things aren't going our way, despite the fact that we were trying hard and performing relatively well. A lot of our fans need to get out of their comfort zone and actively support the team.

One of the problems to me is that the majority of people at the game aren't enjoying themselves because they aren't singing, not due to the quality of the football. We're not a huge country and people's expectation levels need to be capped. If people sing, they'll have a good time, and the players performances may even improve as a result.

As far as I'm concerned if people are coming to the game expecting to be entertained they should really be staying at home. Instead they should be going to the game with the intention of entertaining themselves (ie. by singing) as that's the only way that enjoyment will come.

I really hope something like this can catch on in some form even though it will be extremely difficult.

[paul_oshea]

Terrible thread started by someone with 2 much time on their hands or someone with no friends to talk too,,,cant believe people replied agreeing with him.....GET A LIFE

I can confirm that stutts, does not have too much time on his hands.

[Sligo Hornet]

I can confirm that stutts, does not have too much time on his hands.


Are you his butler?

[paul_oshea]

Are you his butler?

No, but I'm aware that he is kept quite busy with work and what he does in his spare time.

[Wolfie]

For a while now I've noticed an element in the Irish support that I'm not happy with. Perhaps I'm only showing my age and I'm slow to adapt to change but some kind of "Ireland Fans Charter" might spell out the essence of what many of us think it is to be an Irish fan and encouarge behaviour fitting this.

Given that Mento and the YBIG boys have made such progress with the FAI wrt the Singing Section and other aspects, I'd wonder if it'sd be a good idea to have this charter printed in the matchday programme so all the "boo the team if they're not playing well" types know where they can go with this type of carry on. I'd like the players to be aware of some parts of it too.

What do people think?

Here's a few initial ideas for starters, in no particular order.


Ireland Fans' Charter:



Our role is to support the team and to be the team's "12th man".
Our good name at home & abroad has taken years to acquire and may only take a moment to lose. Behaviour likely to cost us our good reputation is not acceptable to any of us.
We may or may not have club allegiances, at home or abroad. Following Ireland has nothing to do with club football and we put aside our club allegiances while following Ireland.
We do not favour or disfavour any player, on our team or the opposition's, on the basis of his club or club history.
We are all in this together. Booing the players is not acceptable behaviour. Our role is to encourage and to be involved positively.
We are not here solely to be entertained. We are playing an active role alongside the players in achieving success.
We have our own songs and traditions. New songs are always welcome but we avoid singing songs with direct reference to political organisations.
We are not a big country and our ambitions are realistic and modest. We only expect that the players attempt to play to their best of their abilities. We recognise that mistakes occur.
We expect that every stakeholder in the team's progress will take all necessary steps and work hard to increase the likelihood of success.
We expect the players to understand that playing for their country is an honour and not a chore. No player has a right to be selected.
We expect the players to understand the expense & commitment it can take to support the team.
We expect our media to be objective in coverage of the national team.
We expect our media to promote coverage of the national team above coverage of UK football.


An admirable initiative that articulates a lot of what we all stand for.

I think the two final points can only ever hope to be aspirational as what constitues objective media coverage can be open to debate.

What harm can a tweaked version of this do? A version of this printed in the match programme helps re-iterate a lot of accepted norms that most Irish supporters have abided by for years.

Surely noone could take major issue with it?

[jmurphyc]

What harm can a tweaked version of this do? A version of this printed in the match programme helps re-iterate a lot of accepted norms that most Irish supporters have abided by for years.


Whilst I think that if something like this did take off, likelihood of it being in the official Ireland match programme is very low. I think the best idea would be to try to get it into YBIG, but I seriously doubt that the FAI would allow an outside charter that has no direct affiliation with their organisation.

[Wolfie]

Whilst I think that if something like this did take off, likelihood of it being in the official Ireland match programme is very low. I think the best idea would be to try to get it into YBIG, but I seriously doubt that the FAI would allow an outside charter that has no direct affiliation with their organisation.

I take the point.

Possibly getting ahead of ourselves in that I think the first step would be to arrive at an agreed and fully recognised final draft of a charter first.

At that stage, the FAI may not be averse to recognising and endorsing the charter in conjunction with YBIG and dare I say it, FOOT.IE.

[Stuttgart88]

I clicked onto this thread expecting to see something about the flight to Bari!Made me laughh out loud :)

[jaykay]

I think the charter would be a very positive initiative. Great idea to put it into YBIG to spread the word, but I'd also like the players to know about it/sign up to it. It would create much more of a sense of unity between players and fans (one which currently seems to be strong only at the away games).

[paul_oshea]

ok then maybe the medium is key, but those that read YBIG no what it should mean already. Its the ones that dont that we really need to get the message across to etc. And we need another medium, however I think its a catch 22, because if we used another more open medium then they would I feel not take it seriously. Where else could it be put if not in the match program?! Or could it not be endorsed by FAI and say please visit such a site to read the "fans" charter...

[Sligo Hornet]

ok then maybe the medium is key, but those that read YBIG no what it should mean already. Its the ones that dont that we really need to get the message across to etc. And we need another medium, however I think its a catch 22, because if we used another more open medium then they would I feel not take it seriously. Where else could it be put if not in the match program?! Or could it not be endorsed by FAI and say please visit such a site to read the "fans" charter...


http://i43.tinypic.com/2hqwg7n.jpg

[Mayo_Bhoy]

Personally speaking i have been going to Irish mtaches, home and away for 20 years and i don't like beong told how i should behave by some self apopointed 'behaviour police'. If this initiative is aimed at the scumbags who have recently joinerd our support, does anyone really believe that they are going to pay a blind bit of notice to this?? As for having it in a programme or copy of YBIG, i and most of my mates that go to matches never buy programmes and only once have i seen a copy oif YBIG.

As for singing songs that make refrerence to political organisations, i presume this refers to the add ons for 'the Fields'? If so i agree totally but i reserve the right to sing other rebel songs with like minded supporters. If some fans are offended, well tough, don't join in. As for expecting our media to give prioroty to the national team over UK football...are you for real?? Newspapers and other oulets are independent commercial entities and we as fans can hardly demand a say in editorial matters. Granted RTE as a a publicly funded national broadcaster is a different matter but i cant find fault with their coverage of the national team.

I appreciate where you are coming from and most your intentions are honourable, if totally unrealistic.

Let The PeopleSing!!!

[Beavis]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2hqwg7n.jpg

:D

I can't look at him without thinking of this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNJVgFmMrBI

[Stuttgart88]

Mayo Bhoy, yes I was referring only to the Fields add-ons. I've never been a great one for the normal rebel songs myself but I've no issue with them at all.

Actually when I first starting going to Ireland games there was a hard-core South Terrace element happy to sing "Oi Oi IRA" etc. but that elements is long long gone now.

[Mayo_Bhoy]

Mayo Bhoy, yes I was referring only to the Fields add-ons. I've never been a great one for the normal rebel songs myself but I've no issue with them at all.

Actually when I first starting going to Ireland games there was a hard-core South Terrace element happy to sing "Oi Oi IRA" etc. but that elements is long long gone now.

Fair enough. I've no time for the IRA stuff either but most of the good sing songs i've had on away trips have been mostly rebel stuff. I'd personally much rather have such a session than one singing childish chants copied from UK clubs, but each to their own i suppose. Good luck with your charter.

[Stuttgart88]

Problem is, I've never been able to remember the words to the rebel songs!

[Stuttgart88]

singing childish chants copied from UK clubswhich is why I said "We have our own songs & traditions...". In my mind this was a thinly veiled attack on the "Ireland 'till I die" or "Thierry Henry yer 'aving a larf" type nonsense.

Hornet's nest just opened. Run away...:)

[Mayo_Bhoy]

Problem is, I've never been able to remember the words to the rebel songs!

Buy me a pint in Bari and i'll teach ya.:)

[Sligo Hornet]

which is why I said "We have our own songs & traditions...". In my mind this was a thinly veiled attack on the "Ireland 'till I die" or "Thierry Henry yer 'aving a larf" type nonsense.

Hornet's nest just opened. Run away...:)


Don't be silly.......we're very nice and friendly!;)

[Ash]

I'm in two minds about the proposal ... it would work if it was attached to
an organised supporters club, but to suggest that in general only real/proper
fans stick to these rules would be a bit much.

It is bringing a bit of a Nanny State attitude to it which would not go down
well with a lot of fans who have been going to games for years and it does
give an impression that Ireland fans are great, non stop singing who vow not
to voice any other opinion than "Ireland are great". I know thats not the
intention but thats what will come across to people.

Not having a go Stutts, and fair play for coming up with the points

While I didnt boo at the last game, I have done in the past and it is more an
reflection of my own passion for the game and team, and my disgust at a
lack lustre performance not befitting the team or fans.
Kinda ties in with "We expect the players to understand the expense &
commitment it can take to support the team."
Just in case they dont understand, no harmin reminding them with a quick
shot across the bow.

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, I see the "nanny state" criticism and to a large extent the purpose of the post was just to have a rant & to get it off my chest. I personally find it worthwhile spelling out, even if it's only here, what I personally believe is the essence of being an Ireland football fan and to point out that there is a legacy and tradition to uphold that a vocal minority seem unaware of.

[Sligo Hornet]

I'm in two minds about the proposal ... it would work if it was attached to
an organised supporters club, but to suggest that in general only real/proper
fans stick to these rules would be a bit much.

It is bringing a bit of a Nanny State attitude to it which would not go down
well with a lot of fans who have been going to games for years and it does
give an impression that Ireland fans are great, non stop singing who vow not
to voice any other opinion than "Ireland are great". I know thats not the
intention but thats what will come across to people.

Not having a go Stutts, and fair play for coming up with the points

While I didnt boo at the last game, I have done in the past and it is more an
reflection of my own passion for the game and team, and my disgust at a
lack lustre performance not befitting the team or fans.
Kinda ties in with "We expect the players to understand the expense &
commitment it can take to support the team."
Just in case they dont understand, no harmin reminding them with a quick
shot across the bow.


Yeah, I see the "nanny state" criticism and to a large extent the purpose of the post was just to have a rant & to get it off my chest. I personally find it worthwhile spelling out, even if it's only here, what I personally believe is the essence of being an Ireland football fan and to point out that there is a legacy and tradition to uphold that a vocal minority seem unaware of.


Totally agree with both Ash and Stutts!

The line "essence..etc." is natural to the true fan (and they don't need the reminder/written charter) but may not be obvious to the minority who could damage our reputation

[Cowboy]

Totally agree with both Ash and Stutts!

The line "essence..etc." is natural to the true fan (and they don't need the reminder/written charter) but may not be obvious to the minority who could damage our reputation

I agree too but I wonder would a charter have any effect on the guys who behave badly since they seem not to have a basic grasp of what most of us are about.

[gspain]

I agree too but I wonder would a charter have any effect on the guys who behave badly since they seem not to have a basic grasp of what most of us are about.

It used to work.

I remember looking at some of my fellow travellers to Euro88 thinking this is really going to kick off. I would have been very worried if I'd met some of them down a dark alley. However everyone bought into the well behaved Irish fans thing. These were the guys i ended up drinking with.

There is a new breed that haven't grasped that. Now I don't necessarily think they are looking for trouble but they wouldn't be found wanting if trouble found them. I saw them in Japan, Paris and Stuttgart. Nothing at any of the games but in pubs or on the street it wouldn't have taken much for trouble to start.

[eirebhoy]

I agree too but I wonder would a charter have any effect on the guys who behave badly since they seem not to have a basic grasp of what most of us are about.
It would make it a lot less acceptable to boo which can only be good. I'm sure there was plenty of people at half time that heard the booing but wouldn't really have batted an eyelid.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Absolutely quality idea and sentiment, Stutts. Couldn't get to the game, however was disgusted to hear the boos at half time. Having to contend with the instant success/blame culture rubbish at club level (resulting in enraged arguments with similar "so-called supporters" on the last two Saturdays) the last thing you want to see is this attitude creep in (and worse still grow) at Ireland matches, especially when it goes against everthing that Irish fans have traditionally stood for.

If this is to be a goer, it will take unified commitment - however the "singing section" boys have shown what can be done and with the momentum that they have built there is no reason why it can't be achieved.

Don't mean to sound condescending, or like a tool (which I probably will), but i've worked in marketing and media for while and have a bit of experience on launching campaigns, so have been thinking about some cheap ideas to help progress it:

1) Fans Charter - Whereas this states what the vast majority of proper supporters are thinking, the common objection seems to be that it will be viewed as the older element trying to tell others what to do. With the additional issue that not everyone is going to subscribe to every point on the charter, meaning that we are in danger of isolating people further and minimising the overall buy-in. However this could form the basis of a larger movement which helps emphasise the "them and us" i.e. true vs fickle fan. Personally, I think that your "Twelth Man" idea is the over-riding factor which unites all the points and could form a more inclusive movement, which is essentially an extension of the singing section idea. The fans charter should be part of this - although maybe needs to be slightly more general, so as to not exclude other fervent supporters, who might disagree with elements of it.

2) Raising Awareness - There have been various good campaigns which have risen up from the terraces. One of note was the "love united, hate glazier" campaign which created a new football team - however whereas foriegn ownership has come to be the norm and accepted, there will always be a resistance to fickle fans. Some ideas are:

a) Green Twelfth Man T-Shirts - Perfect way to create immediate identification and no better form of advertising than ourselves. Football fans will always have a herd mentality (a possible reason why booing and bad-mouthing grows), however if they see a visible counter-culture at matches this level of intrigue could cause it to grow. Cheap to print - especially in bulk - creating a distinctive inclusive movement which is easy to join (not dissimilar from Holland which has a hell of an impact on the stands).

b) Advertising - Many options, although in your face, guerilla advertising which looks to grow the message as quickly and effectively as possible is probably the best. Hitting people when they are congregating in crowds at matches and in pubs/clubs. Big benefit of doing this is that it is cheap. Means of doing this are:
> Flyers - Possibly stating the Fans Charter and the intentions of the Twelfth Man movement - handed out by volunteers at games.
> Sticker campaigns - Very effective in the love united, hate glazier campaign literally covering the City - increases the frequency of people seeing the advertising and creates recognition of the message. A range of places are perfect for this, such as toilets in pubs, buses, bus stops, lamposts etc.
> Window stickers - For Cars and Windows on Pubs which could be a good way to get their buy in
> Print advertising - Is costly and might be preaching to the converted in certain publications - so not initialy recommended - unless the FAI would donate a page in the Programme
> Stunts - One-off stunts create standout which are PRable. One such idea that I thought was quality was United fans looking to fly a plane over Platt Lane during a derby with a tail banner taunting them about being a massive club. Might be costly - although not inconcievable. Other alternative is putting Twelfth Man t-shirts on the famous statues around Dublin on launch (Night before Bulgaria game?).
> Social Networking Sites - Facebook and Bebo are massive and best of all free. Could create different features on the page, such as songs section, away day information and best places to stay/drink etc, even down to local language tips and chants to help forge links with away fans. Can create applications on facebook to have as a badge of honour on your own facebook site which works well as part of a viral marketing campaign when sending it on to friends
> Dedicated Website - One site which helps unify the whole thing. Possibly an extension of foot.ie or one that has sections of it included (not technical in the slightest - so not sure if this is feasible?). Worthwhile, creating links to other Irish Sites to grow appeal. Website address should be on all stickers, adverts, t-shirts as a unifying call to action and place to act as the central location for what we are doing.

c) PR - Surely the FAI would be up for helping to co-promote this. If not, speak to the lads who sorted the singing section for tips. Fair play to them - an interview on Sky TV is priceless. Loads of options - radio phones ins, National Papers, 4-4-2 etc.

3) Growing the Movement - In order to broaden the appeal we should make use of the existing organisations which are already in place:

a) The Singing Section - No point in creating two separate groups when they are fighting the same cause. Instead an affiliation should be created as an extension of the progress they have made to keep the ball rolling and whip up more support. Not every one is a singer, but we are all supporters. The growth of the singing section into a bigger movement would be a sign of progress and an underlying feeling of discontent towards the fickle minority. Would possibly make more of a statement if there was an adjoining Twelfth Man section to create one massive section

b) Existing Supporters Clubs - Often the most fervent fans and ones most likely to convert others (football is a religion). If we could try to convince the top boys in the supporters clubs, they could help us in our effort to raise awareness and become advocates for the movement. Was a member of the Birmingham Irish Supporters Club during the last campaign who are a great example of a societal club with newletters and regular meetings etc.

c) Other Associations/Media - Should be a combined effort in conjunction with foot.ie, YBIG, The FAI, eircom league clubs and any other viable organisation to make it as co-ordinated and combined as possible. Whereas it would be wrong to prostitute it - this is potentially the sort of thing a corporate sponsor or media partner would be all over - however the last thing we'd want to do is taint it. Irrespective, it needs to be a "By the fans, For the fans" effort, rather than some larger organisation with ulterior PRable motives

4) Funding - Set it up as a not for profit organisation working off donations, yearly subscriptions or money from merchandise such as T-Shirts. In reality wouldn't cost that much to run.

As I said, these are just ideas - However, would love to contribute all I can if any of you are up for it. Appreciate that I'm standing up to be shot down, however couldn't really give a monkeys. I'm up for it.

[Cowboy]

Thats a fair point.



It would make it a lot less acceptable to boo which can only be good. I'm sure there was plenty of people at half time that heard the booing but wouldn't really have batted an eyelid.

[Cowboy]

Excellent post, thanks



Absolutely quality idea and sentiment, Stutts.

[Stuttgart88]

Wow Manc, give me time to read that again!