Ireland Fans' Charter?

[citizenerased]

goodman manc, great post..i was at the meeitngs with the FAI and they would be willing to listen to suggestions, they were very accomodationg with the singing section in fairness to them

[Wolfie]

Great post, Manc.

These generic, groundswell approaches are what's required.

Under Brian Kerr's tenure there were ill-advised and highly forced attempts to cajole an atmosphere out of the crowd with giant flags and music greeting a goal which failed miserably.

Stutts post and yours above have far more chance of getting a foothold in the fans consciousness as its a "help the fans to help themselves" approach.

[Stuttgart88]

It'll be interesting to see what the Bulgaria game is like. If we're not playing well at HT I'd like to think that because of the importance of the game the crowd would be supportive. I'm hoping the booing was because some expected Georgia to be fodder. I anticipate a huge buzz of excitement before the Bulgaria game and it'd be great if football can rise up to compete with the hype that the rugby boys will generate if they're chasing the Grand Slam.

I'd say a problem with going on a big PR offensive is that, unlike the whole United/Glazier thing that Manc mentions, most don't even recognise that there's a problem to be overcome. However, problem or no problem, promoting a 12th man campaign of sorts would be inclusive and would send a subtle message to the fickle fans. I think Manc is spot on in isolating the "12th man" principle.

Away from the fans however, I have a huge bugbear against our media. I suspect this is in large parts due to the tabloid penetration that the boom years brought, but even the reputable press devote far too much time to red-herrings like Stephen Ireland at every squad announcement and too much time trying to stir sensationalist sh1t. Is it too much to ask for a match report in an Irish newspaper on an English game featuring a few Irishmen, to comment on the performance of the Irish, even if it's only an addendum to the syndicated match reports they buy? The RTE has a Premiership highlights show. Does the panel ever single out the Irish involved for scrutiny - positive or negative? This should be a regular part of the coverage IMHO.

Is there a platform to address this, or is there even any widespread opinion that it's an issue? I know it was said early on this thread that you can't expect the press to do anything other than try and maximise sales, but I think there's a broader responsibility and in my opinion highlights lazy & unimaginative editorial standards.

[Mayo_Bhoy]

The RTE has a Premiership highlights show. Does the panel ever single out the Irish involved for scrutiny - positive or negative? This should be a regular part of the coverage IMHO.



To be fair to the RTE panel, they usually do concentrate their analysis on any Irish players involved in their featured games. This is one of the reasons i would watch this show before MOTD.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair enough Mayo Bhoy, I don't see it very often and am glad to hear that.

[Beavis]

Away from the fans however, I have a huge bugbear against our media. I suspect this is in large parts due to the tabloid penetration that the boom years brought, but even the reputable press devote far too much time to red-herrings like Stephen Ireland at every squad announcement and too much time trying to stir sensationalist sh1t. Is it too much to ask for a match report in an Irish newspaper on an English game featuring a few Irishmen, to comment on the performance of the Irish, even if it's only an addendum to the syndicated match reports they buy? The RTE has a Premiership highlights show. Does the panel ever single out the Irish involved for scrutiny - positive or negative? This should be a regular part of the coverage IMHO.

Is there a platform to address this, or is there even any widespread opinion that it's an issue? I know it was said early on this thread that you can't expect the press to do anything other than try and maximise sales, but I think there's a broader responsibility and in my opinion highlights lazy & unimaginative editorial standards.

While I completely understand your motives and agree with the sentiment - the media infuriates me regularly, the pinnacle being the portrayal of our most capped player as a muppet - we live in a free society and the media can say as they wish (obviously). I think it is more important to target the audience to which they pander. The best way to monitor the media is to ignore what you dislike, express your disgust through apropriate channels (boycott/email the paper/television, voice opinion here and hope somone takes notice, etc) and if we can create an environment where constant criticism, over-expectation and tabloid slander of individuals become unacceptable again, it should slowly amend itself. I would envisage the influence of the singing section and this charter as being among the means of change and eventually a shift in the media could be a major resultory effect.

The policing of the media should be informal. It should express the view of the masses as opposed to a group of, as some might see it, oversensitive supporters such as ourselves imposing our morals on the sporting coverage. It's a two laned system though, the people feed off the gutter press and it only exist because the people buy into it. We need to bring about change through effecting people at games. Granted, it is difficult to compete but the attitude expressed at matches and generally by fellow fans is far more influential than what you read or hear through the media. In the same way as booing is contagious, the same pact mentality means that people at games are swayed by their peers and progress can be made quickly as a result.



It is bringing a bit of a Nanny State attitude to it which would not go down
well with a lot of fans who have been going to games for years and it does
give an impression that Ireland fans are great, non stop singing who vow not
to voice any other opinion than "Ireland are great". I know thats not the
intention but thats what will come across to people.

This is why it should be, at least initally, the charter of the singing section, not of Ireland fans as whole. In this way, we are not formally instructing anyone else how to act. We would be saying, 'this is what we abide to - do the same if you wish'.

I propose we get all forum members involved in the singing section to agree or disagree on this. If it is accepted then publish it for the Bulgaria games either in a flyer or as tee-shirts we wear and hopefully over time we can seek passively influence the rest of the crowd.:ball:

[magnumpi]

i think the charter is a great idea, was very disappointed to hear the booing at croker. you never boo the lads.

on a separate point, if following ireland has nothing to do with club football, which it doesn't, could we add in a ban on wearing club football jerseys to away matches? just a thought......

on the singing, couldn't agree more with the comments re petty british-style chanting.

disappointed that Oro Se do Beatha Abaile didn't get an outing vs Georgia. more of this, less of that.

[Mayo_Bhoy]

could we add in a ban on wearing club football jerseys to away matches? just a thought......



This is my problem with this whole thing. People suggesting bans etc. How on earth are you going toenforce it??? When away i always wear an irish jersey to the actual game but the nights beforehand i might wear my county GAA jersey or my Celtic jersey. Not wishing to reopen an old debate thats being done to death here but im proud of the Irish Celtic connection and the club's history etc and while i understand other people take a completely opposite view, fair enough, but no one will tell me what to wear or how to express my identity. I also follow QPR but wouldnt wear a club jersey on an away trip.

[magnumpi]

its not supposed to be "enforced" per se, but if it was IN the charter, people might read it and think, "actually, the club i support, LOI or otherwise, has nothing to do with me supporting ireland, so I won't wear it. and i won't think i'm a 'better' fan because i'm a LOI fan."

more important is the non-booing of the team and the maintaining the immaculate reputation of irish fans abroad - something that could be lost so quickly. - as pointed out by Stuttgart88

[Mayo_Bhoy]

its not supposed to be "enforced" per se, but if it was IN the charter, people might read it and think, "actually, the club i support, LOI or otherwise, has nothing to do with me supporting ireland, so I won't wear it. and i won't think i'm a 'better' fan because i'm a LOI fan."

more important is the non-booing of the team and the maintaining the immaculate reputation of irish fans abroad - something that could be lost so quickly. - as pointed out by Stuttgart88

Well i only have 2 Irish jerseys and 4 Celtic and after a few days away a laundry is the last bloody thing im looking for, so anything green does me.:)

[Stuttgart88]

I actually think it's nice to see GAA or LOI jerseys the night before the game itself. What could be more Irish? Match days should be about Irish shirts only. There's a more subtle thing in the Celtic shirt (I think it portrays the assumption that Ireland and Celtic are interchangeable) but as someone who once wore a green Panathanaikos shirt to a game (Amsterdam) because I had lent out my Irish shirt I'm not one to talk! I happen to follow Celtic by the way. I used to be a real fascist about things like not wearing Irish rugby shirts to football games, but I've mellowed on that count now.:) I suppose it just shows how this issue is open to personal opinion. I can't argue with the way Mayo Bhoy makes his point - the general sentiment & the idea of Celtic shirt on day before game but not on match day

Re-the media, I bought the international edition of the IT today and, to my pleasant surprise, the only football feature was a piece by Paul Buttner on Conor Clifford's progress at Chelsea. More of the same please!

[soccerc]

Re-the media, I bought the international edition of the IT today and, to my pleasant surprise, the only football feature was a piece by Paul Buttner on Conor Clifford's progress at Chelsea. More of the same please!

That's only because Conor played for Chelsea against St Pats on Wednesday evening and was made available to the media for interview post game.

[Superhoops]

This is my problem with this whole thing. People suggesting bans etc. How on earth are you going toenforce it??? When away i always wear an irish jersey to the actual game but the nights beforehand i might wear my county GAA jersey or my Celtic jersey. Not wishing to reopen an old debate thats being done to death here but im proud of the Irish Celtic connection and the club's history etc and while i understand other people take a completely opposite view, fair enough, but no one will tell me what to wear or how to express my identity. I also follow QPR but wouldnt wear a club jersey on an away trip.

A few years ago QPR had a green and white hooped jersey as their 3rd strip.

[Stuttgart88]

That's only because Conor played for Chelsea against St Pats on Wednesday evening and was made available to the media for interview post game.No mention of the game in said edition of newspaper!

[tetsujin1979]

Said feature on Clifford is available online here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0220/1224241486588.html

[magnumpi]

Well i only have 2 Irish jerseys and 4 Celtic and after a few days away a laundry is the last bloody thing im looking for, so anything green does me.:)


am thinking of wearing a Green Giant outfit on matchday, so will have to be Ireland jersey day before the match and wexford jersey for the flight home!

[Mayo_Bhoy]

am thinking of wearing a Green Giant outfit on matchday, so will have to be Ireland jersey day before the match and wexford jersey for the flight home!

Excellent sartorial choice