Amateur Status

[outside in]

Have been thinking about this for the last few days, I think that the budget that was presented to the members at the last EGM was the most constructive document given to the members in years.Dan Wyatt to be fair has been a huge asset to the club since he took over the finances plus he is not caught up in the history of infighting.

What really caught my eye was the fact that we now realise that we cannot afford a playing budget for this season and any player who signs up for this for next season should be highly commended for putting the club before financial reward.

I hope the chairman realises that it is imperative that the club has to live within it means given the current economic climate, I also believe that we need to start paying off creditors and the tax man

[Ram72]

Fair due's to any player that signs up to play this coming season.
Hopefully some time in the future the players that sign will be rewarded for their commitment.

[Redshanks]

I agree with all of the above. Furthermore, if it makes such good sense for the club and genuine committment from players to forego pay, why would we then mess all that up by paying a manager?

I hope we dont fall into that trap, or sucumb to the temptation to pay a manager over the heads of players. The manager is the one who should be leading by example.
If he cant bring himself to serve our club under those conditions, then our (plan b) should be to use a local man or men who has the qualifications and hunger to do the job. I understand we have 3 or 4 locals who are more than capable and ready to do the job.

Lets hope we dont hear in a couple of weeks -say on March 2nd, that contracts had been secretly signed without the knowledge/approval of the members.

Cobh Ramblers doesnt have a Triple AAA credit rating. It never had and never will unless we radically change the way we think and do things. We are in economic terms a 'Basket Case' run club.
The members have at last come to realise that and want (demand)changes by the top-table decision makers.

[jfarlo]

not sure if i agree with your sentiments totally redshanks. while i do think costs should be kept to a minimum, a manager with league of ireland experience would be a great asset with an inexperienced team.(are you refering to dave hill)Granted if we are not in the first division then there is probably no point as attendances will be down. I also believe that in bringin in a non local removes the chance of either side of the (lets see who can get rid of the other side) divide within the club to complain.

[Redshanks]

I see your point jfarlo, and theres nothing at all wrong with a non-local taking the helm, only if he sees and understands where Cobh Ramblers is at present and is willing to make the sacrifice like everyone else. Does such a person exist?

The time is undoubtedly here when we must now look at the bigger picture and correct all the wrongs of the club, and from that perspective, the onfield field scene has to take a big hit or else it will only be a matter of (short) time before we wont have any activity on or off the field.
As our assistant Financial controller last week told us, there is simply no budget for players or manager, but perhaps we could give them some form of reward /holdiay or such like, at the end of the season. Every € paid to players and management is a € in debt.

I would be trilled to learn that Dave Hill is prepared to get stuck in under such circumstances, but we must be realistic and that is where I'm coming from in looking local.

[6yardpunisha]

i am hearing from more than one person that there is a playing budget for next season,one player said that they have been offered €150 a week.where is this coming from and what happened to the budget that dan presented to us, what has changed, mystery investor? lotto win?

more than a few questions to be raised at the agm id say

[luka]

i am hearing from more than one person that there is a playing budget for next season,one player said that they have been offered €150 a week.where is this coming from and what happened to the budget that dan presented to us, what has changed, mystery investor? lotto win?

more than a few questions to be raised at the agm id say

I know you didn't ask for it but my advice would be wait until the AGM to bring such questions up. Personally I've heard nothing and I can't for the life of me see the club paying that amount to any individual if we are doomed to the A League, do you?

[rambler14]

i am hearing from more than one person that there is a playing budget for next season,one player said that they have been offered €150 a week.where is this coming from and what happened to the budget that dan presented to us, what has changed, mystery investor? lotto win?

more than a few questions to be raised at the agm id say

Well if it's true then SACK THE BOARD! and do it NOW!

[Ram72]

I'd love to know where the club is getting money for players.
The budget that was presented to the members a few week's ago didn't allow for a manager or team budget. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[luka]

Lets wait and see lads. The 16th is the important date to keep in mind as that's when we'll know our faith 100% and we can then move on from there eh!

[Redshanks]

A-League -1st division doesnt matter. The gold simply isnt there unless we plough along like before and build up another mountain of debt and more bills.
What about the creditors - local and national?

If we have a mystyrious investor, we havnt been told about them, and no manager or players budget was approved by the members per/general budget presented by Dan Wyatt and Co.
Are the members going to be so trilled if we secure a 1st Div licence, that they are now going to take their eyes off the main ball (club finances) and let our very last chance to save and fix this club wash down the toilet, or are they going to call a Halt to any backroom/ side deals which doesnt have the clubs longterm interests at heart?
We are a members club, and its the members who must decided which way we go on this.

[luka]

It will be the licensing that decides where we go and I'm still holding out hope that we'll be playing First Div football this year. Indeed, the finances will need to be monitored very closely and I don't believe there's a member among us who would prefer to see us in the A League as opposed to the First Div. Given a chance in the First Div I really believe that we can turn our financial situation around. It may take a while to drag ourselves back into the black but I really believe that it can be achieved if the club and committee have the full support of all the members and more importantly the 'Town' itself. The only problem would be getting all the members to sing from the same hymn sheet. Achieve that and you have achieved success. Bitching and bickering, splits and divides need to be put aside and become a thing of the past. Yes, it may be hard for certain quarters to swallow their pride for the betterment of the club but FFS it isn't impossible. Some people holdi grudges for years and it's so visible to others that it turns them off. There are grudges in that Club that have absolutely naff all to do with the club. Some don't like new members coming in and trying to help out and do things. 'Who do you think you are. I've been coming here for 30 years like. You've been here five minutes. You might have a great idea but because I'm here longer your idea doesn't count so naff off'. These might be classed as bitter. They try the school-yard bullying and cold shoulder tactics and all it does once again is turn people off. People like this will be bitter all their life and no-one can change them, but I'd ask all to just give it a chance and get on with at least giving it our best effort to get the club back to normal.

[Redshanks]

I'm not so much concerned with the bitter people as you call them Luka -Attempts were made recently to set up a meeting (club bridge building) with some of them -and the message came back loud and clear NO! so theres nothing to be achived there -none so blind as those who dont want to see -and all that.

THe club can be pulled back from into the black if the club and committee has the supporter of the members -says you Luka, but shouldnt your question be the other way around -does the members have the support of the committee?
If the members make a very important/crucial decision at a meeting and cautiously warns the committee of the way it wishes them to proceed, you as a member would expect your wishes to be respected and honoured, would you not?

As I said earlier -whether its A leage or 1st division -the same rules and principles apply.
Its the day the members wishes are respected and acted upon, that we might see a smidgin of unity at this club -even with the bitter people.

[6yardpunisha]

bottom line is that members agreed on no budget for players, lets pay our debts instead.

committee agreed.

now we are hearing committee are trying to dupe the members IMO

can we now go forward with a committee we cant trust.

My opinion is not a hope.

[the sub]

bottom line is that members agreed on no budget for players, lets pay our debts instead.

committee agreed.

now we are hearing committee are trying to dupe the members IMO

can we now go forward with a committee we cant trust.

My opinion is not a hope.

Will all of you ffs give up with the wispers ''l was told this or that'' wait until its offical then make comments.
I know a few of the players and I know for FACT that no money or contracts were ever discussed until they know where they will play.
For God sake stop this he said/ she said our I heard this in the bar at 2am ****ed out their minds.
I have not heard anyone on this thread asking why the city game was cancelled look at the gate money you lost. 7/8k euro you could have paid a few bill from that even show revenue you were making tracks into the debt.
Listened to the radio today a business man owed revenue 3k in tax he failedto pay on time. He found the Sherrif knocking on his door with a Court order for 6k plus his exps he wanted good to the value taken from his house.
with the state of the country, and goverment needing money fast what better way of getting paid.
So stop moaning and get on with saving your club

[6yardpunisha]

Will all of you ffs give up with the wispers ''l was told this or that'' wait until its offical then make comments.
I know a few of the players and I know for FACT that no money or contracts were ever discussed until they know where they will play.
For God sake stop this he said/ she said our I heard this in the bar at 2am ****ed out their minds.
I have not heard anyone on this thread asking why the city game was cancelled look at the gate money you lost. 7/8k euro you could have paid a few bill from that even show revenue you were making tracks into the debt.
Listened to the radio today a business man owed revenue 3k in tax he failedto pay on time. He found the Sherrif knocking on his door with a Court order for 6k plus his exps he wanted good to the value taken from his house.
with the state of the country, and goverment needing money fast what better way of getting paid.
So stop moaning and get on with saving your club

it will be be too late once they sign contracts FFS

[luka]

I'll say AHEM..........until I get my self together after a statement like that............ta vry much!1 Actually...ya know what....F it. Let the club go to the Dogs if thats yere attitute. Good night and God Save The Queen.

[Ram72]

A.G.M coming up in a couple of weeks, so lets wait and see what the truth and rumours are.
If we want change we can vote for change then, because there isn't a lot we can do between now and then.

[Redshanks]

As punisher said, once contracts are signed, theres little can be done about them afterwards. There can be repercussions for those who delibrately acted against the members wishes and instructions, but contracts have to honoured -atleast until the members are in receipt of legal advice that says otherwise.

Thats why some of us are whinging and flagging whats happening behind the scenes now.
If chief pcplod is correct about the staff taking cuts, as i'm sure she is, since others of us has heard it from some of those directly affected, then this begs another question. Who is going to be paid to clean the bar toilets etc in future? - Dave Hill

[pcplod]

The source is the bar and administration staff of our club I am not making this up or going by hearsay I was told this directly by two employees. They were told at a meeting wedensday that there was cuts being made so that the committee could have a budget for the players and manager.

[luka]

They were told at a meeting wedensday that there was cuts being made so that the committee could have a budget for the players and manager.


I think you'll find they were told at the meeting there will be cut backs being made and not that there were cut backs being made to facilitate a budget for players and Manager. Things do tend to grow legs and anyway, this particular part of buisness doesn't belong on a forum to be honest. All that discussing this on a forum does is cause more unease. It's between the employees involved and the Club.

[pcplod]

Hang on there now a minute luka yes they were told that the cutbacks were being made to facilitate a playing budget and I am sure if you ask any of the staff they will tell you same. This might cause unease with some people but I feel that people should know the facts because I for one am sick of being hoodwinked when it comes to the financical situation within our club. I am not adding legs to this story so I suggest that you get your story straight before preaching because I have my facts correct.

[luka]

Facts or no facts. It doesn't belong in the public domain. Doing so could have an adverse affect on either party. The cut backs are being instigated yes but it's only at the beginning of the process. It would also be deemed very inappropriate for any employer to put it to the employees as you say it was. Personally I wouldn't be too pleased to be reading this if I was one of those employees. I might want to take it further and seeing it blasted all over the internet wouldn't be helping any would it. All this is doing is causing more unease FFS. Don't you and others think we've had enough of that over the past twelve months.

[pcplod]

It is inappropiate to say the least that it was put to the staff in this way but the fact of the matter is that it was end of. As for causing more conflict thats a joke everyone and his dog knows the business of cobh ramblers and I can assure you that not all their info is gotten from the forums so talking about it on here is irrelevant and I thought you for one would also see it that way.

Botom line is that it is a disgrace what has went on and unless we have changes fast then this behaviour will finish this club off once and for all.

To cut back on the one side of the business that is ahead of targets and is keeping the place open is absolute madness and people need to know this.

[luka]

All I'm trying to say to you is that it really isn't fair to either party that this is being discussed here. I'm just waiting for someone to say that the members weren't consulted about this before they executed it.

[pcplod]

The last time we were in a meeting we were told that there is no money for a playing budget end of and even with these cuts in place there still isnt €2000+ a week for one and that is my main point here we cannot afford to pay for a manager and players no matter what way it is dressed up and disguised

[the sub]

The last time we were in a meeting we were told that there is no money for a playing budget end of and even with these cuts in place there still isnt €2000+ a week for one and that is my main point here we cannot afford to pay for a manager and players no matter what way it is dressed up and disguised

Don't know where you getting this info from but a luka said not a place to make statements about hear say and as employees that is between them and their employers.
Can I say this again I hate repeating myself.... NO PLAYERS HAVE HAD MEETINGS WITH MANAGERS OR COMMETTE WITH REGARDS TO GETTING PAYED. I know this for FACT, I know most of the players... no discussions have taken place with regards to what is happing until Cobh know your status. Maybe their is a reduction in hours thus pay because not enough people are going into your club house to drink throughout the week, like many, many businesses throughout Ireland ... did you ever think of that .

[Redshanks]

Sub might be right about no meeting having taken place between players and committee, but the latter certainly are working hard to scrape together a manager/player budget, and yes it was conceeded after being asked by a club employee that the proposed cuts were intended to go towards a player budget.

So if everyone who is concerned about this big f -up remains silent about these things and waits to see how it pans out, as they are being asked to do by Sub and Luka, what should they do later -if and when they learn that contracts were signed involving money the club doesnt have and without their knowlegde and consent?

Can and will those contracts be unsigned?

[luka]

Eight players at training last night. I hope there's enough paper left for the contracts themselves. I'm not asking anyone to be silent. I just believe that there might be legal issues involved in this and that's between employer and employee. In the normal buisness world an employer cannot dismiss one person to employ another as could be argued with this situation, however, the job of cleaner and Manager for instance cannot be compared unless part of the managers job description is that he also does the cleaning. Could it also be argued that the Members are the employers?

The Sub does appear to have the correct information though and we need to assume that it is indeed fact until we are told otherwise by the 'Top Table'.

[pcplod]

I never said that the contracts had been signed what I said was that thr top table as you put it were trying to get a playing budget even though we were told very clearly that there is no money. As for waiting to be told thats a joke right they told us last time that they would not pay the players if there was nothing in the budget to allow it but we wouldnt be having this conversation if this were true now would we

[luka]

I never said that the contracts had been signed
I don't think anyone said you did........

[Beezer]

this is like a soap opera.:p

[the sub]

this is like a soap opera.:p
But the actors are getting paid

[luka]

But the actors are getting paid

Nah........that's only a rumour. I was told by one fella in the pub down the road that there will be an actor's budget alright and payment on a weekly basis as opposed to just luncheon expenses and a twice yearly payment. Bit of aballs though getting rid of and cutting some of the Xtras to compensate for the actors :eek: