FAI Meet Clubs to Discuss Wage Sanctions

[CSFShels]

The Sun today was my source. Not exactly reliable, but they're surely getting their info from somewhere.

[Lim till i die]

We're paying our players and complying with all licencing requirements to my belief.

I would find that very hard to believe.

Not picking on Shels mind, I'd say you could count the number of fully compliant clubs on the fingers of one, badly mangled, hand.

My point being, they would have excuses not to promote ye if they wanted to.

[CSFShels]

Well apparently it is an independent licencing committee. Seriously though, its a disgrace if clubs who have broken this deadline, are given Premier licences. Precedents need to be set.

[holidaysong]

How stupid would it look if we ended up with a 6 team Premier Division next season?

It'd be better than letting all those clubs off the hook by abolishing the league structure..

[CSFShels]

Exactly. There is no way these clubs should be allowed away with not paying their players.

[GalwayRed]

Was just wondering if drogheda united do go bust which team gets offered the premier division licence? shels or harps? Not sure of the rules on this.

[CSFShels]

Think it is Harps based on what has gone on in other leagues, but I don't think there is any set procedure for it in the League Of Ireland.

[Ram72]

Was just wondering if drogheda united do go bust which team gets offered the premier division licence? shels or harps? Not sure of the rules on this.
Well if Drogheda do go bust, the place should go to the highest ranking team that has not broken the licence rules. That would either be shels or ucd.

[higgins]

The money we owe in wages is the backpay from when the players took the paycut. The players have been payed in full since Coughlan got control

I don't mean to go back to old topics but did I not ask if Tom got his hands on your club for next to nothing and was told no ?

So here we are today when creditors only got 7.5%. Tom has cashed in on Doyle and picked up prize money for the league and Setanta and you still owe players money ?

So Tom has put nothing in effectively ??
Or very little it seems..

It still doesn't look good for you.
Are FORAS involved yet ?

[Student Mullet]

I don't mean to go back to old topics but did I not ask if Tom got his hands on your club for next to nothing and was told no ?

So here we are today when creditors only got 7.5%. Tom has cashed in on Doyle and picked up prize money for the league and Setanta and you still owe players money ?

So Tom has put nothing in effectively ??
Or very little it seems..

It still doesn't look good for you.
Are FORAS involved yet ?higgins is the new Pineapple Stu.

[higgins]

I would find that very hard to believe.

Not picking on Shels mind, I'd say you could count the number of fully compliant clubs on the fingers of one, badly mangled, hand.

My point being, they would have excuses not to promote ye if they wanted to.

Like the excuses they came up with last time ??
Like the rules that nobody else seems to have to stick to!!

For the record Shels have not missed a payment to a player in two years now, not that we should be praised for that. We are not growing our overall debt either. We will get a premier division license. We've still got one of the better grounds in the league (for what thats worth!). One of the best schoolboy sections in the country too.

We're carrying a load of debt but at this moment in time so are the current league champions.

Tell me what exactly the FAI can do to us ?
After the club nearly went bust we restructured a lot of our debts that required payment to continue trading, i.e players, revenue, FAI, pitch maintanance etc
We've been limited in our sponsorship potential as we've seen out old deals signed for two and three years that had already had the money spent.

Until we're debt free and in control of our own destiny I'll never say we're a safe bet but from what I'm reading lately we're not as bad off as a lot of clubs.

[micls]

I don't mean to go back to old topics but did I not ask if Tom got his hands on your club for next to nothing and was told no ?

Who said no? and where?

It depedns on your definition of next to nothing I suppose.

He paid the 7.5% to the creditors, 15% to the revenue and starting paying the players their full(arkaga) wages while trying to renegotiate.

He said from the start he would not be pumping money into CCFC, he wants to steady the ship and make it viable and has the business plan to do so.


So here we are today when creditors only got 7.5%. Tom has cashed in on Doyle and picked up prize money for the league and Setanta and you still owe players money ?

Yes. All players have been contacted about monies owed and it will be paid soon. Tom is in negotiations with players at the moment about contracts also.


So Tom has put nothing in effectively ??
Or very little it seems..

Again depends on your definition of very little, but as I said he said from the start he had no intention of pumping money in


It still doesn't look good for you.
We have a club, so it looks fairly good to me.

The deadline thing is odd, The club seemed to think it was the 31st of January for whatever reason. The rule seems to contradict itself and the FAI have yet to say anything about the deadline so I dunno.

Just have to wait and see



Are FORAS involved yet ?

FORAS have been involved the whole time, meeting regularly with Coughlan. We do not own shares yet though

[red bellied]

http://www.oceanfm.ie/onair/sligoleitrimsport.php?articleid=000002902

Six League of Ireland clubs failed to pay outstanding debts to their players before a November 30th deadline, according to a Tuesday newspaper report.



The end of November date had been decided under the FAI Club Licensing manual, with clubs facing potential sanctions as a result.

According to a report in a national newspaper, Premier Division trio Drogheda United, Cork City and Bray Wanderers and Athlone Town, Cobh Ramblers and Finn Harps – who are due to take part in the First Division in 2009 – failed to pay outstanding debts to contracted players by last weekend.

At worst, clubs’ licenses to participate in the League could be revoked entirely, although the Football Association of Ireland may yet give clubs a further two months to come up with the cash by extending the deadline to January 31st.

That situation is unlikely to curry favour with the Professional Footballers’ Association of Ireland, with a host of its members facing into a difficult Christmas period with mounting debts as a result of the financial predicament in which their clubs find themselves.

[holidaysong]

If none of those 6 clubs were to get a premier licence then you would have UCD staying up and Shelbourne and Waterford being promoted giving us a premier division with 5 Dublin clubs and 5 non-Dublin clubs! :eek:

[cheech]

LOL!! THE SUN?? How sweet!

All Harps players have been paid in full.

If Drogheda are relegated, Harps take their place.

Check the FAI rules - if a team is relegated because of off-field issues then the next highest ranking team takes their place. That is Finn Harps at the minute as they are ranked 11. If Drogheda go down, Harps will be ranked 10th.

From yesterdays Derry Journal - http://www.derryjournal.com/derry-sport/Harps-budgeting--but-for.4751612.jp
Harps budgeting - but for which division?

Date: 02 December 2008
THE FINN Harps Board of Directors were due to meet last Sunday afternoon to discuss the club's budget for the forthcoming season - but the Ballybofey side remain in the dark in relation to which division they will actually be playing in!

While Harps lost out in a late relegation battle, the cub are still not without some hope that they may in fact hold on to their Premier Division status given the financial difficulties being experienced by a number of clubs, most notably Drogheda UnADVERTISEMENTited, who are currently in administration.

However, the dilemma for the board as they sit down to number crunch and lay their stall out for next season is that they are still not fully clear whether to plan for Premier or First Division football.

If in the event of Drogheda being forced out of the league, Harps are considered the number one choice to replace them in the top flight.

It is known that the Board have met on a number of occasions since the end of the league and also held discussions with manager Paul Hegarty.

While no one was available for comment, it is understood Hegarty has sought a budget in the region of E5,000 euro per week to run the team next season.

But that's if they are playing in the First Division. The team boss is expected to seek an additional E2,000 a week if they are to remain in the Premier Division.

It is also believed that the overall size of the budget will have a major bearing on whether Hegarty will be prepared to remain at Finn Park next year.

In fact, Hegarty is due to meet the Board again this week.

Last weekend was understood to be the deadline date for clubs have their financial affairs in order and all their players paid up to date. Harps, it is understood, have met all their financial commitments to the playing staff and have no worries about sanctions from the F.A.I.

Meanwhile, Drogheda United's financial difficulties have continued, so much so, that the Co. Louth club has called a meeting of its supporters for tomorrow night insisting that the club's very existence is now at stake.

It's also understood that Drogheda still owe in the region of E100,000 in wages to its playing staff and, indeed, are unlikely to meet that commitment.

It is believed that if the wages owed are not paid in full, then Drogheda would not be granted a Premier Division Licence and, therefore, would not be in a position to play in the top flight next season, thus boosting the hopes of Finn Harps for an immediate return to the top flight.

[cheech]

If none of those 6 clubs were to get a premier licence then you would have UCD staying up and Shelbourne and Waterford being promoted giving us a premier division with 5 Dublin clubs and 5 non-Dublin clubs! :eek:

The Ocean FM article is quoting the Sun.

It is wrong. There are four teams that haven't paid. Two mentioned in the Sun are incorrect. One is Harps. The other I'm not sure of.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Finn Harps ranking of 10th / 11th at the moment is based only on 'sporting merit' - ie where they finished in the league just finished.

I'd imagine the rankings will be re-ordered - based on all sections of the licence requirements - whenever the new licences for 2009 issued?

[Dodge]

Won't be re-ordered, it will be thos witha premier license, ranked as now

[holidaysong]

The ranking is 1st-9th in the PD, then Dundalk, then Finn Harps, Cobh, UCD (in that order) and then clubs from 2nd down in the FD starting with Shelbourne.

[dublinred]

The ranking is 1st-9th in the PD, then Dundalk, then Finn Harps, Cobh, UCD (in that order) and then clubs from 2nd down in the FD starting with Shelbourne.

Are Boylesports paying out on Dundalk finsihing above Drogheda in 2009 yet?

[brianw82]

Are Boylesports paying out on Dundalk finsihing above Drogheda in 2009 yet?

Considering Drogheda may not be around to compete in 2009, I somehow doubt it. :)

[Martinho II]

LOL!! THE SUN?? How sweet!

All Harps players have been paid in full.

If Drogheda are relegated, Harps take their place.

Check the FAI rules - if a team is relegated because of off-field issues then the next highest ranking team takes their place. .

thats how waterford stayed in the top flight in 2007 when shels got demoted...

[CSFShels]

thats how waterford stayed in the top flight in 2007 when shels got demoted...
I'm pretty sure that isn't the case given that promotion that season wasn't based solely on on the field performance.

[El-Pietro]

Shels fans are clutching at straws hoping to get promoted

if Drogheda are demoted, Finn harps will take their place, as they were in direct competition with Drogs, Drogs did not gain any advantage over Shelbourne whereas they did over Finn Harps
that old sporting advantage chesnut certain Shels and UCD fans like to wheel out in these threads

[Buile Shuibhne]

I fully expect Harps - provided they get a Premier Licence - to replace Drogheda in the Premier Division.

However, should there be any more casualties, Shels might be in the shake-up to move up?

[Dodge]

However, should there be any more casualties, Shels might be in the shake-up to move up?
Anything is possible. But the running order, for now, to move up a division would be

1) harps
2) Cobh
3) UCD
4) shels

Obviously I'm guessing as much as anyone

[Ash]

I fully expect Harps - provided they get a Premier Licence - to replace Drogheda in the Premier Division.

However, should there be any more casualties, Shels might be in the shake-up to move up?

Hopefully either Harps or Cobh (or both!) stay up ... its a real pain travelling to them!

[Buile Shuibhne]

Cobh can probably be discounted - even if they opt out of the MSL ;)

[cheech]

Hopefully either Harps or Cobh (or both!) stay up ... its a real pain travelling to them!

...and a bigger pain listening to you. ;)

[CSFShels]

There isn't a hope in hell Cobh will be kept up.

[jinxy lilywhite]

There isn't a hope in hell Cobh will be kept up.


Why not. More hope than Shels. Even if Cobh is overlooked UCD will get there ahead of you. So you need 3 teams to go before shels get a look in.

[garyderry]

Why not. More hope than Shels. Even if Cobh is overlooked UCD will get there ahead of you. So you need 3 teams to go before shels get a look in.

some good news so
$hel$ wont be going up next season

:D

[GalwayRed]

Why not. More hope than Shels. Even if Cobh is overlooked UCD will get there ahead of you. So you need 3 teams to go before shels get a look in.
Looks like somethin major would need to happen before we got promoted but were defintiley ahead of cobh on the list. they havent complied with licencing regulations whereas we have. pointless argument anyway because i just cant see either us or them going up anyway

[Dodge]

Looks like somethin major would need to happen before we got promoted but were defintiley ahead of cobh on the list. they havent complied with licencing regulations whereas we have. pointless argument anyway because i just cant see either us or them going up anyway

Pointless because you can't say for certain that Cobh haven't complied either.

[higgins]

Who said no? and where?

It depedns on your definition of next to nothing I suppose.

He paid the 7.5% to the creditors, 15% to the revenue and starting paying the players their full(arkaga) wages while trying to renegotiate.

He said from the start he would not be pumping money into CCFC, he wants to steady the ship and make it viable and has the business plan to do so.


I don't know what thread it was but we were discussing Foras and Tom and it was said Foras wouldn't have anywhere near enough to get involved in the ownership of Cork at the time.

Now I just can't work out how much money this Tom fella is putting in ???

Anytime it's discussed all we get is the expenditure since he came on board. No mention of the home gates the fund raising the donations by FORAS the Doyle fee and the Mooney fee and the prize money along with whatever else..

When you say FORAS are involved, to what extent ?
Have you access to the accounts in some way ??? I don't mean all the members but does someone from FORAS have any say in the running of the club?

Talking to Tom means nothing.
I should hope FORAS are not that naive

Also....
These magic deadlines that everyone is talking about.
Shels were told about these deadlines and who and how much they had to pay. We done exactly what was asked of us, paid revenue, had deals with all creditors (including players) and we still got demoted.

I don't for one minute think the FAI will kick out Cork but if you're name started wth Shelb... deadlines mean nothing. Again I'd point out that overspending (i.e 65% rules) was not in place either when Shels were demoted.

[micls]

Im pretty sure ive answered all these questions roughly 1 million times so for the last time(whether you like the answers or not).

Tom paid off the 7.5% to creditors and the 15% to revenue and with teh help of gate receipts(which til then were paying about 15% of wages) paid the players full wages since coming on board.

FORAS donastions and fundraising money are still in the foras bank account, NO money has been given to the club and at the moment wont be. The money will be kept and added to as a safegaurd and also with the aim of getting involved in capital expenditure in the long term which was the initial aim of FORAS.

FOras involvement:statement outlining it on www.forasturst.ie but in short:

The club is putting in place new management structures based around 6 committees - Match Night Events
- Fundraising
- Media & Public relations
- Training & Pitch development
- School & Community Liaison
- Ticket Sales and Promotions

The FORAS steering commitee with head each of these committees. The board of management will then be made up of these six heads of committes, Tom Coughlan and Gerry Nagle.

So FORAS has daily input into the running of the club but does not intend to buy shares at the moment. They'll see how this goes.

if you read the rule it seems to me the deadline is January 31st, but given the FAI anything is possible

[Longfordian]

The emphasis is going back on to voluntary workers in the off the field management of the club so?. Ye did seem to have a very high off the field wage bill last year alright. Volunteers can be a good thing once the right peolpe are picked for the right positions.