Alex Bruce

[CraftyToePoke]

Striking image there of him and Baird. Hadnt seen that before and was not really aware of this happening. A thousand words as they say .....

[Charlie Darwin]

Are all the other players in shot from a unionist background? McAuley's the only one I wouldn't be confident on.

[CraftyToePoke]

Are all the other players in shot from a unionist background? McAuley's the only one I wouldn't be confident on.

You arent shy around the big questions there CD, fair play to you.

[Charlie Darwin]

Danny sets them up, I just knock them down.

[DannyInvincible]

Danny sets them up, I just knock them down.

Do I inherit CTP's compliment? :p

I've never heard that McCauley was from a nationalist background. I'm sure it would have come up somewhere along the line if he had been.

[Sullivinho]

I'm sure such shoegazing isn't strictly indicative of nationalist leanings. They could be atheists, sorrowfully lamenting the unlikeliness of the Queen's salvation.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hardly.
:rolleyes:

About as likely as someone called Gareth McAuley from the North, being anything but a nationalist?

[osarusan]

What does his admission that he supports Ireland say to you? How would you interpret it? To me and surely anyone knowledgeable of the dynamics and reality of life across both communities in the north, that's an implicit declaration that he sees himself as Irish first and foremost. And, quite often within the nationalist community, that is to the exclusion of considering oneself "Northern Irish" or British, although that's not to say that McGinn feels in no way attached to some idea of "Northern Irishness", but it just doesn't seem likely, and the Fly's words pretty much confirm it.
I'm not from Northern Ireland, so I don't get the message that he sees himself as Irish first and foremost. That may be because I'm not from there.



If we know he supports Ireland - and this isn't under dispute - would it not be fair to assume he'd have chosen to play for Ireland if he'd felt the FAI would have entertained him or if the potential sterner competition for a place hadn't been a concern?

But again, if, as you say in your blog,

The fact that some players place the inevitable risks that come with extra competition behind their national identity in their list of priorities is demonstrative of their allegiance.
what does this imply regarding McGinn, who hasn't been willing to take the risk of extra competition? What does this demonstrate (if anything) about his allegiance?

[Gather round]

Easily explained why the players are crapping themselves in that photo. Baird is looking forward to be kicked up in the air by Crusaders' hard men, while McGinn has the challenge of that hotbed of Irish nationalism, Brentford (I hear he's off on a year-long loan). Ealing Green will be able to report progress.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm not from Northern Ireland, so I don't get the message that he sees himself as Irish first and foremost. That may be because I'm not from there.



But again, if, as you say in your blog,

what does this imply regarding McGinn, who hasn't been willing to take the risk of extra competition? What does this demonstrate (if anything) about his allegiance?

Regarding the likes of Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson or Darron Gibson, I think it shows them in a very positive light, at least, from the perspective of an Irish fan who values shows of commitment (not to get into an argument over the recent "no-shows" thing; the FAI were prepared to take Gibson and Wilson at their word and we know little else). If these players had stayed with the IFA, for example, it's likely they'd all be playing more crucial or pivotal roles with the NI team currently. As it is, Wilson is a peripheral squad player with us, at least for now anyway, and Gibson is a midfield back-up option. Duffy would be getting called into full international squads with the IFA; not missing out on selection for under-19 squads with the FAI. Clearly though, their sense of national identity or allegiance to their nation/identity came up trumps for them and the risk of greater competition became a secondary concern to the dream that was to represent their country, or to at least give themselves a chance of fighting for the opportunity.

What I'm saying for McGinn is that, first, he identifies as Irish over Northern Irish/British, if even he does identify with those entities at all, and, second, in spite of this, he's put what you might call his sense of national allegiance secondary to what you could call more mercenary interests: playing international football for merely playing football's sake; settling for what wouldn't have been his first option because he assumed he didn't have the potential ability to strive for it; satisfied with receiving acknowledgement of ability; heightening his profile and exposure; that sort of thing... What does it say about his allegiance? It says that it's not his primary motivating factor when it comes to deciding what international football team to play for, I'd imagine, and that he is able or content to put his own personal career interests first. It doesn't necessarily contradict how he primarily identifies as Irish. Consider the saying, "it's just a job". Even so, it is obvious that identity is still an issue for those who identify as Irish but settle for playing with the IFA. Otherwise, as Predator mentions, the IFA would never have had to request dispensation from FIFA over the issue of allowing some of their players to travel and be identified on Irish passports alone.

I'm not going to castigate McGinn for his choice. I'm just trying to rationalise it and explain it in the context of someone from a nationalist background. He's entitled to do what he wants if the choice is there. It's his life and career; not mine.

[DannyInvincible]

By the way, I don't think I'd ever read the first page of this thread until I happened to open it there now. Highly amused, I was, considering current circumstances, to see Bruce being linked with Fiorentina in the first post from 2008.

[Not Brazil]

Are all the other players in shot from a unionist background? McAuley's the only one I wouldn't be confident on.

Not confident about what?

[Not Brazil]

About as likely as someone called Gareth McAuley from the North, being anything but a nationalist?

So, does your "name checker identification kit" tell you that McAuley is a Unionist or a Nationalist?

[DannyInvincible]

So, does your "name checker identification kit" tell you that McAuley is a Unionist or a Nationalist?

Presbyfenian.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So, does your "name checker identification kit" tell you that McAuley is a Unionist or a Nationalist?
Not too many Irish nats. called 'Gareth'.....
;)

[EastTerracer]

Not too many Irish nats. called 'Gareth'.....
;)

What about Garret Fitzgerald, son of a 1916 GPO veteran? The spelling may be different but the name is the same. Schoolboy error, AB!

[DannyInvincible]

From my own experience, Gareth seems a fairly popular name around Derry. There were three of them alone in my class at what was a Catholic all-boys school and I know of at least three or four others who all would invariably be Ireland or Celtic fans or from a nationalist background. Then, there's Gareth McGlynn who plays for Derry City. I even know a Gary actually; also an Ireland fan. Does Gary count?

And what about Garth Brooks? He once told the live Croke park audience that he loved Ireland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except McAuley's from Larne and if you wanted to call your kid "Garrett", why use the Welsh version anyway?

"Gary" is un-related to Gareth, generally.
Can't speak for the good people of Doire mind.....

[Charlie Darwin]

Not really sure where you're going with that. I grew up with a few Gareths in sunny Catholic Dublin.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's primarily a Welsh name in my experience, or do you want to deny that as well??

Until this thread have never heard of a single Irish 'Gareth', though acc. to Wiki it's the 87th most popular name in the North....

[Charlie Darwin]

What do you mean "deny that as well"? I haven't denied anything. I'm saying the name Gareth is not a reliable indicator of religious background. It's been shown many time on here that you can't identify a player's religion based solely on his name, otherwise Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson would be representing the IFA team.

[Stuttgart88]

The last several posts have been pathetic. Names & religion - grow up.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It doesn't mean it doesn't happen though, eg. very widespread in the North of Ireland and the West of Scotland!!

[SwanVsDalton]

The last several posts have been pathetic. Names & religion - grow up.

I think it's been a little tongue-in-cheek. At least from some posters...

McAuley? Isn't he one of the hindu McAuley's? Larne via Goa?

[third policeman]

The last several posts have been pathetic. Names & religion - grow up.


Agree this is getting pretty shocking. It's depressing that the whole IFA v FAI allegiance is now increasingly resembling an international version of Celtic v Rangers. I am increasingly sympathetic to the view that we (ROI) should not pick Northern-born players, or alternatively we should have one neutral association without national flags, anthems etc.

PS If you are still tuned in GR, best of luck against Fulham next week

[SwanVsDalton]

Agree this is getting pretty shocking. It's depressing that the whole IFA v FAI allegiance is now increasingly resembling an international version of Celtic v Rangers. I am increasingly sympathetic to the view that we (ROI) should not pick Northern-born players, or alternatively we should have one neutral association without national flags, anthems etc.

Why deny an Irishman his right to play for his country? Why dissolve two teams with proud histories and great support bases? Don't really see the point in either tbh.

As for the, ahem, quality of posting - I wouldn't take it that serious. Shocked or not, NI people occasionally discuss names and birthplaces in terms of allegiances. It doesn't make us raging sectarians, and the discussions, in my experience, are carried out with no vitriol or prejudice. Just realistic curiosity. I can understand why people might find it distasteful as it has sketchy connotations, but I don't believe there's any malice in the discussion.

In the context of this thread, no one (I believe) ultimately cares about where McAuley, McGinn or anyone other NI player emerge from - it's just interesting to know the community mix in the NI team now and going forward.

[Charlie Darwin]

The only thing worse than this talk about religion and names is people pretending those things doesn't matter.

[Gather round]

Thank you TP. Should be fun even if we get well beaten. Did you see the Cliftonville fans in Liverpool en route to Oswestry? They seemed to enjoy the anti-Government strike march ;)

[irishfan86]

I love the idea mentioned by third policeman that the island should have one team without national flags or anthems...for INTERNATIONAL football. Says it all really.

[DannyInvincible]

McAuley? Isn't he one of the hindu McAuley's? Larne via Goa?

Aye, but tell me this; is he a Catholic Hindu or a Protestant Hindu?


Agree this is getting pretty shocking. It's depressing that the whole IFA v FAI allegiance is now increasingly resembling an international version of Celtic v Rangers. I am increasingly sympathetic to the view that we (ROI) should not pick Northern-born players, or alternatively we should have one neutral association without national flags, anthems etc.

I'm not sure I understand why the FAI should refuse to select certain Irish nationals who wish to play for Ireland solely due to their place of birth. I'd consider that to be grossly unfair on the players concerned.

What sparked the sympathy, by the way, or has it always been there? The apparent "Old Firmisation" of football on the island? I don't know if that's anything new, to be honest. Ireland fans have long booed Rangers players in Lansdowne and we're all well aware of the sectarian bile that was spewed that (in)famous night up in Windsor in 1993. Are they the sort of things that would fall into that bracket? Is it any worse nowadays? I wouldn't have thought so. I'm afraid it's business as usual.


The only thing worse than this talk about religion and names is people pretending those things doesn't matter.

Before we get ahead of ourselves, I don't think anyone has actually agreed that a person's name will provide some sort of indication as to their religious background.

[ifk101]

I am increasingly sympathetic to the view that we (ROI) should not pick Northern-born players.

Are you supporting us now?

[ArdeeBhoy]

I am increasingly sympathetic to the view that we (ROI) should not pick Northern-born players

And go against the GFA/CAS Ruling?


Did you see the Cliftonville fans in Liverpool en route to Oswestry? They seemed to enjoy the anti-Government strike march
Why would Cliftonville fans have gone 4 days early for an anti-Brit Govt. march?


I love the idea mentioned by third policeman that the island should have one team without national flags or anthems...for INTERNATIONAL football.
But hardly likely.



Before we get ahead of ourselves, I don't think anyone has actually agreed that a person's name will provide some sort of indication as to their religious background.
It shouldn't matter, but even if we have complete peace and tranquility for the rest of the century (which is unlikely) in the areas I mentioned, it's going to be a while till it is insignificant to many....

[third policeman]

Are you supporting us now?





Yeah, I know compexity mightn't be your strong suite, but I think I did try to make it simple. I have what might be termed "mixed heritage" and therefore find it posible to wish both teams well. My first international games were watching NI, but I have over the years established a stronger affinity and support for ROI, not (I hasten to add) for any political reasons, its just kind of worked out that way.

[DannyInvincible]

Yeah, I know compexity mightn't be your strong suite, but I think I did try to make it simple. I have what might be termed "mixed heritage" and therefore find it posible to wish both teams well. My first international games were watching NI, but I have over the years established a stronger affinity and support for ROI, not (I hasten to add) for any political reasons, its just kind of worked out that way.

The Alex Bruce of the supporting world. :p

[Mr_Parker]

Why would Cliftonville fans have gone 4 days earlyfor an anti-Brit Govt. march?



It was the morning of the match. Even got shown on Channel 4 news that night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJNUoqUyftU

[Not Brazil]

Not too many Irish nats. called 'Gareth'.....
;)

What about Richard?

[third policeman]

The Alex Bruce of the supporting world. :p


Or alternatively the Shane Duffy, Daren Gibson etc etc.......

[Fixer82]

Has he switched to the North? According to Wikipedia he has

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Bruce_(footballer_born_1984)

[DannyInvincible]

Worthington said he was intending to make the switch three weeks ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13996856.stm

Presumably just a matter of sorting the relevant documents since.


Northern Ireland boss Nigel Worthington told BBC Sport on Friday that Leeds player Bruce, who has two Republic caps, had opted to make the switch.

Both of Bruce's caps were in friendly games in 2007 and 2008 so he remains eligible for Northern Ireland.

"Subject to getting Fifa clearance, Alex wants to play for Northern Ireland," said Worthington.

"We're delighted that he has made the decision."

[Park_Lane]

Excellent news, he was absolute pants anyway. At least now we dont have to worry about him lining out for us.

[an_ceannaire]

It's primarily a Welsh name in my experience, or do you want to deny that as well??

Until this thread have never heard of a single Irish 'Gareth', though acc. to Wiki it's the 87th most popular name in the North....

http://http://www.google.ie/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxMrPpAD8rnGbUHMg8ei9zSEP05WgBf x9ONPVSHBFzMW6UWK8SdgZ5Zw


Gareth Farrelly perhaps?????!!

[Fixer82]

Gareth Kelly, a cracking right-back

[DannyInvincible]

If anyone could care...

"Bruce is out to answer doubters": http://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/football/bruce_is_out_to_answer_doubters_1_2903278


NIGEL Worthington has praised Leeds United defender Alex Bruce for having the courage to declare for Northern Ireland.

Bruce, the son of Sunderland boss, Steve, is missing from the squad to face the Faroe Islands in a Euro 2012 qualifier on August 10 as the official paperwork from UEFA and FIFA has yet to be finalised.

Introducing the former Ipswich Town ace to the set-up has brought fierce criticism from some quarters with many fans unhappy about his original decision to turn his back on Northern Ireland in favour of the Republic – even though his only Irish link in through his paternal grandmother, who was from Bangor.

At the time, the 26-year-old insisted he choice the South as they “are a better side” but he found his opportunities extremely limited and had a change of heart towards the end of last season.

So, having been capped five times at under-21 level, once at ‘B’ level and twice in senior firendlies for the Republic, he is set to be included in Worthington’s next squad for qualifiers against Serbia and Estonia in September.

“We are delighted Alex Bruce has decided his international future is with Northern Ireland but, as we learnt with Lee Camp’s and Ollie Norwood’s paperwork, these things take a bit of time,” said Worthington.

“He was never pencilled in for the Faroes game but hopefully by September everything will be official and he will be a part of the group for the next two games.

“I believe it has taken a lot of courage from him to declare for Northern Ireland and as a squad and staff we will give him all the support he needs and hopefully the fans will see he is committed to playing for Northern Ireland.”

[Charlie Darwin]

The FAI should challenge it and take it to the CAS for the laugh.

[BonnieShels]

The FAI should challenge it and take it to the CAS for the laugh.

That hit the funny bone. Good man yarshelf!

[Lionel Ritchie]

Might be joining Robbie at LA Galaxy according to Leeds United dot com

[IsMiseSean]

Isn't he "Northern" Irish now?

[Sullivinho]

I'm not giving up hope until he's capped competitively by those thieving b@stards. Don't do it Alex.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Be fair though, if he does play for the North, a certain poster on here as per the 'Eligibility' thread, will be leading the fans boycott of the game...
;)

[Philly]

Bruce has now been called up for Northern Ireland. Hope it goes well for him and respect that he wants to play international football. Can't help but think he would have been a decent squad player to keep around.