St Pats in player betting allegations

[charliesboots]

No, the mail said that there were two players involved. Even mentioned the games.

The quote from the mail is:

"The unsubstantiated claims centre around two players, only one of whom is understood to have taken part in the relevant games. If true the implications for St Pats and the integrity of the league are immense"

They don't state anything that could be proven to be a mistruth.

[Dodge]

Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying

[charliesboots]

Here's the article

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w309/charliesboots/betting1.jpg


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w309/charliesboots/betting2.jpg


if you read the article this is nothing but rumour at the moment

[Dodge]

http://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=2716

Seems like something an on the ball CEO would do.

[Founders]

http://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=2716

Seems like something an on the ball CEO would do.
The damage has been done to the league already,so if its not true will pats sue??

[Dodge]

The damage has been done to the league already,so if its not true will pats sue??

No one will remember in 3 months. Every league has had betting scandals

Stop being a dramaqueen

[Rambling Along]

I told ye all 2 weeks ago there was match fixing going on and every one of ye laughed at me and said I was crazy that I was just being a bitter Ramblers fan but since then we've had the "Boylesports Scandal" and now this.

FIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!................told ya so!;)

Any chance they could be thrown out of the league?

[brianw82]

Any chance they could be thrown out of the league?

A bit OTT. If the players are found guilty, the club should punish them. No more.

[Inside Man]

If i was a Harps fan I would be particularily agrieved.
I'd expect to have some sort of reaction by them if they go down.

[Kildareman]

And Kildare County have just beaten Limerick37 at odds of.....6/1. OMG :eek:

[pineapple stu]

FIX!!!!!

Rumours in Richmond last night (duirt bean liom go nduirt bean lei admittedly) were that a couple of Pat's players may have gone the same route as the fans and bet against the team because they knew there were players missing, that the Cup semi was the main focus and that the other teams were fighting to avoid relegation. Could well believe that alright. in that case, it's just stupid, not malicious, which is a big difference obviously.

[RonnieB]

I got Mons at 7.2 on betfair last night. Easy money :) I agree with Stu above I feel a case of stupidity more than an attempt at throwing the actual game. If any of the allegations prove remotely true.

[OneRedArmy]

FIX!!!!!

Rumours in Richmond last night (duirt bean liom go nduirt bean lei admittedly) were that a couple of Pat's players may have gone the same route as the fans and bet against the team because they knew there were players missing, that the Cup semi was the main focus and that the other teams were fighting to avoid relegation. Could well believe that alright. in that case, it's just stupid, not malicious, which is a big difference obviously.Disagree. Players betting against there own side, regardless of the sport, is regularly considered a lifetime ban offence because it gets right into the heart of what sport is all about.

Don't want to come over all "Corinthian spirit", ""jumpers for goalposts" etc. but its a very slippy slope.

Also heard rumours last night that the players had already been identified, but pure hearsay.

[jebus]

This is a shocking allegation against Pats and the league.

But, if found out to be true I think they should be relegated as punishment. Also any players caught should be given really long bans, at least a season each.

Zero tolerance required by the FAI on this one as the whole credibility of the league is at stake!

bhs

Nonsense. The players in question should be given a lifetime ban if the allegations are found to be true, but the club itself has done no wrong

[soccerc]

08/11/2008 [17:18]
STATEMENT FROM ST PATRICK'S ATHLETIC
St Patrick's Athletic FC is continuing to address the concerns around allegations about some of its players betting on matches in the Eircom Premier League.

More (http://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=2720)

[Rambling Along]

Any word on who the suspended player is?

[Dodge]

Loads. Ridiculous to mention names and tarnish the innocent ones though

[pineapple stu]

Disagree. Players betting against there own side, regardless of the sport, is regularly considered a lifetime ban offence because it gets right into the heart of what sport is all about.
Agree, but I'm saying there is a difference between that and throwing a game, which is malicious, as opposed to stupid.

[mrmurphster]

Just spotted this as well.

http://www.pfai.ie/index.php?mod=one&id%20=16804&PHPSESSID=f1451bef7c54370040a6d7e%20df4faea99

[Boo_Boy]

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=105805

[mrmurphster]

http://www.pfai.ie/index.php?mod=one&id%20=16804&PHPSESSID=f1451bef7c54370040a6d7e%20df4faea99

[pete]

http://www.pfai.ie/index.php?mod=one&id%20=16804&PHPSESSID=f1451bef7c54370040a6d7e%20df4faea99

Idiot.

He must have been tempted by the club advertiser in his face every day. :p

[jebus]

http://www.pfai.ie/index.php?mod=one&id%20=16804&PHPSESSID=f1451bef7c54370040a6d7e%20df4faea99

Moron

Ban him from the game for life

[Aaron]

Fair play to him for having the balls to come out and admit it. Dosnt make it right though. Hefty ban on the way methinks

[sligoman]

Don't see too much wrong with it(assuming Dempsey was definitely going to be out for the game? If there was a chance he could have been selected then give him big punishment).

[John83]

Don't see too much wrong with it(assuming Dempsey was definitely going to be out for the game? If there was a chance he could have been selected then give him big punishment).
I'd agree, pretty much, though I wouldn't be concerned by a light punishment if it's the latter possibility.

Is this definitely all there is to this story? This one guy, who didn't even play in the game, placing a ****ing €20 bet?

[Saint_Charlie]

Moron

Ban him from the game for life

For the sake of 20 quid in a game he didn't play in. It's a stupid thing to do, but a lifetime ban??!!

[passinginterest]

Not the smartest thing to do. At least he came out and admitted it (maybe taking the heat of others or bigger problem?) I'd say about a 10 game ban seeing as he wasn't involved in the game.

[cheifo]

Not the smartest thing to do. At least he came out and admitted it (maybe taking the heat of others or bigger problem?) I'd say about a 10 game ban seeing as he wasn't involved in the game.

Sounds about fair to me.

[christo]

Don't know anything about the games/players in question, but do know a wee bit about betting. Basically there are two types of scam.

The first is where a connected person has inside information which indicates a certain result and so backs its.
Obvious examples where Team A has injury problems, rows in the dressing room, a manager who's "lost it", or a deliberately weakend team is to be picked e.g to save the players for a more important game.
Their opponents, Team B, might not be up to much, but if they are giving 100% against weakened/non-trying opposition, then they (Team B) will have attract generous odds to win. And crucially, if the connected person is in a position to influence the result further i.e. is a player or manager of Team A, so much the better.

But that is not quite the same as a fixed result i.e. where Team A should beat Team B comfortably, and so match fixers arrange for Team A to lose. In such circumstances, it is actually very rare for the players to be the key - whether bribed to throw the game, or betting on themselves to do so.
This is because you can't rely on two or three players to produce an upset, e.g. giving away or missing penalties, or a keeper letting in soft goals etc, because if their teammates are giving 100%, then the activities of the dodgy players will be so blatant as to attract attention. Moreover, they can't guarantee they won't be subbed if they are playing badly, or sent off if fouling etc.
And bribing several players from a team might cost more than you win, as well as greatly increasing the chances of it leaking out, or one of the players approached reporting it to the authorities.
In which case, the key to match fixing is actually to get to the Referee - as has been seen even in the big leagues, such as Germany and Italy - or conceivably Team A's keeper.

But even then, fixing a match result (W, L or D) to upset the odds is too crude these days. It is much easier to arrange, and less likely to be noticed, a spread bet on the score.
For example, Team A is rated to beat Team B by 2.5 goals (effectively three). You will get decent odds on Team A only to win by 1.5 or less (effectively by a single goal, or even draw or lose). Therefore, if you can get to the Referee/Keeper - then you greatly enhance your chances.
So that if e.g. Team A goes ahead after 30 mins, the Ref/keeper doesn't need to cheat. If Team A then get a second goal, the Ref/Keeper still only has to award/concede a penalty, the score is now 2-1 and the bet is a winner again.
If that's how the match finishes, then nobody really notices - Team A just made harder work of it than normal.
Of course, if Team A gets a late 3rd goal, then the Ref/Keeper has to work extra hard to concede a second goal, but even if he does, people will just put it down to an "off-day" i.e. their suspicions won't be aroused, since Team A still won 3-2.
Of course, if Team A has a blinder and score half a dozen unstoppable goals, then the Ref or Keeper just accepts he cannot be seen to "throw" five dodgy decisions/own goals etc and the bet loses.
The fixers behind it know you can't win them all, but there'll always be another game and another opportunity.

Anyhow, from the speculation so far, if there is anything in the rumours, it is almost certainly an example of the first type of scam (imo).

(Still stinks, mind, with anyone caught and proven deserving a life ban from the game imo)

That isn't knowing about betting that is knowing about scamming

[jebus]

For the sake of 20 quid in a game he didn't play in. It's a stupid thing to do, but a lifetime ban??!!

Yep. He bet against his team, he had inside information on the game, he's a cheat.

That his other part of the double header didn't come in shouldn't be taken into account

[OneRedArmy]

He didn't play so less than a lifetime ban, but enough punishment to deter others (see slippy slope argument). A season minimum.

Gutted it wasn't Rodgers.

[brianw82]

I think the player should have his case heard. Obviously he's going to say, 'sure it was only 20 quid, I wasn't involved in the game, I wasn't aware I was breaking any rules, etc'. I think some common sense needs to prevail here. He's held up his hands about it, so credit to him for that, at least. To talk about giving season-long bans for the sake of a 20e bet, taking away a player's livelihood on one act of stupidity, is OTT.

A fine or a ban for a few games would be sufficient.

[centre mid]

Don't see too much wrong with it(assuming Dempsey was definitely going to be out for the game? If there was a chance he could have been selected then give him big punishment).

Bollo-x, He is in a position to influence the end result of a game, he has a duty to his team mates, his employers, his fellow pros, Pats fans, every other team in the league to ensure the integrity of every game he takes part in. A lifetime ban is a must.

Regardless of the amount of money staked, €20 according to Dempsey, but realistically there is no way of verifying that, how many games did he bet on & profited from that he was involved in.

This raises its ugly head every now & again, its has to be stamped out with force.

[OneRedArmy]

Re Brianw82, he held up his hands after he was caught! Hardly honesty.

[centre mid]

Fair play to him for having the balls to come out and admit it. Dosnt make it right though. Hefty ban on the way methinks

In every other sport this will get you warned off or banned for life, think Kieran Fallon. Even if he claims momentary insanity he should still receive a lifetime ban. Its the only way to stop it happening again. He can have as much as he like on Pats to win ( or any other game ) but he cannot bet on a game he is marterially involved in, regardless of whether he takes par, he had access to information regarding the pats team.

Shane on him.

[Ceirtlis]

Where did the story come from in the first place, as in how did it come knowledge that he placed this bet if it was only part of a 20 euro double. You just cant take his word for it that it was only 20 euro. Ignorance of the law is no defence either.

[brianw82]

Where did the story come from in the first place, as in how did it come knowledge that he placed this bet if it was only part of a 20 euro double. You just cant take his word for it that it was only 20 euro. Ignorance of the law is no defence either.

The only way I can think of, is that he was recognised by a cahier in whatever bookie he went into.

[geezer]

sponsor and directors not happy this weekend. Its getting serious for the fai now but did that ever make any difference. At least its publicity and you know what they say about publicity. I remeber eddie van boxtel jumping over the ball in terryland against athlone in 1996 i think after he came down on the train with half the athlone team that morning. It has always gone on

[Saint_Charlie]

The only thing he's guilty is of being a fool. I could have told you we would have struggled in the games we lost. There was no insider info needed to see that.

Calling for lifetime bans over 20 quid is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure this isn't what Quinn was writing about either. Surely?

[A face]

The only thing he's guilty is of being a fool. I could have told you we would have struggled in the games we lost. There was no insider info needed to see that.

Calling for lifetime bans over 20 quid is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure this isn't what Quinn was writing about either. Surely?

The thing is, it probably wont be eL calling for it though. The media will destroy this, we'd be lucky if they relayed the real story. They'll sell more papers if they can make people think its wide spread throughout the league.

The FAI and St Pats are on dodgy ground here, and losing face is not an option.

[JC_GUFC]

I'm pretty sure this isn't what Quinn was writing about either. Surely?

I imagine you have to be right - I don't even know where these stories came from...

Generally it's the bookies who report any suspicious betting on a match, like Monaghan v Longord. It would be very interesting to see where this story originated - so far there's absolutely no substance to it.

Apparently some lazy hacks are trying to stir up that Dundalk v Athlone was also fixed...

[Longfordian]

He didn't say there was any suspicious betting did he? I thought he just said that Pats players had bet on themselves to lose. Which Dempsey did. Stupidly.

[Founders]

No one will remember in 3 months. Every league has had betting scandals

Stop being a dramaqueen
If he didnt bet with PP he mite pull out on pats:p

[CameramanConka]

Didn't a ceratin bookie report 'irregular betting patterns' in the game involved. Now 20 euro is hardly irregular. And is it true Dempsey done a double, with Man City to win, who then lost? :confused:

[Saint_Charlie]

Didn't a ceratin bookie report 'irregular betting patterns' in the game involved. Now 20 euro is hardly irregular. And is it true Dempsey done a double, with Man City to win, who then lost? :confused:

Yep. He didn't even win the bet.

[Saint07]

Didn't a ceratin bookie report 'irregular betting patterns' in the game involved. Now 20 euro is hardly irregular. And is it true Dempsey done a double, with Man City to win, who then lost? :confused:


Its obvious that this isn't what the investigation was about. I'd say he thought he should be up front because if it came out later he'd be in more s**t.

[Longfordian]

But the article which started it all is from the Daily Mail which only mentions the two Pats players betting against their team. There's no quotes from any bookmakers about suspicious betting patterns regarding Pats.

[jebus]

Yep. He didn't even win the bet.

That makes it all better then, maybe we could have a whip round to make sure he isn't out his twenty euro as well? :rolleyes:

[Longfordian]

Regardless of the amount it's just sheer stupidity. I can't understand his thinking process, I mean it's not like City are playing well at the moment.