Irish in England

[liam88]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum but i'd like to become a regular poster. I was born in England but my relatives come from Cobh (Cork) and from Tipp. I strongly regard myself as Irish and proudly follow the Irish national team, Cobh Ramblers, Cork Hurling and Gaelic football teams and Celtic F.C .
I notice that some people here don't seem to like Celtic but I see it as a great way to support my Irish heritage and still get to see quite a few matches-over here we don't even get Cobh Ramblers RESULTS on t.v let alone any matches :(
On the Celtic website I found this information,

"Celtic are proud of our Irish roots. The Club flies the Irish Tricolour on Match Days to mark our Irish heritage. Celtic's identity has been shaped as a Scottish Club with Irish roots. Celtic continues to honour this heritage in a variety of ways. Our many Irish fans show that our Irishness is not just something from the past."

I think that this is really great and when I had the honour of coming over to Cork in the summer I was not alone in wearing my Celtic shirt-in the City I saw at least 100 a day and it just seemed the common thing to wearing :D

So what do you guys think of Celtic and if there are any other Irish living in Britain what do you do about watching you're home team etc.

Thanks,
Liam

[Lionel Hutz]

Welcome aboard Liam.

Expect abuse on this thread for two reasons.......
A. Your a Celtic fan
B. You consider yourself Irish!

At least thats been my experience of this forum since I joined a couple of months ago. Some of the guys on here seem to hold very right wing views as to what constitutes "Irishness" or what teams are exceptable.

BTW Its not everybody who thinks like that!
;)
So dont get to despondent by some of the comments made on here!

Hail Hail

[RiffRaff]

Before I moved to the UK in the 80's, I was scepitcal about "plastic paddies", however since then I've met loads of second and third generation who consider themselves Irish and know a lot more about Irish history and geography etc than most people in Ireland do, so my opinions have changed.
Having said that, I still don't make a connection between Celtic and Ireland. They are a scottish club and I resent the fact the fans of both Celtic and Rangers see fit to sing sectarian songs about a country the majority have never even been to.
If Celtic really want to represent Ireland, whats stopping them - Derry, Cardiff, Swansea, Berwick - they all play in leagues outside their borders. They can play against Monaghan and Kilkenny every other week and if their good enough, represent us in Europe. Alternately they can stay where they are, represnet Scotland and continue to make money and attract fans from a gimmick.

[tricky_colour]

Originally posted by liam88
Hi,
I'm new to this forum but i'd like to become a regular poster. I

<snipped for brevity>
So what do you guys think of Celtic and if there are any other Irish living in Britain what do you do about watching you're home team etc.

Thanks,
Liam

Hi,
I am of Irish parents too (both sides) and born in England
and I could never consider myself English, I love supporting the
Irish national team and I 'see' what games I can, be it on
TV, (usually in a Pub, sometimes in the Bookies, or wherever
it is on) if the worst comes to the worst I listen on an almost
inaudible RTE radio broadcast (not bad on a cloudy day but
on a clear day virtually impossible). Most of the recent matchs
have been 'radio jobs', perhaps fortunately given the results!,
but I would still have liked to see how well [sic] the lads played.
I don't like the term 'plastic paddy' as my blood is as Irish as
that of any man born in and living in Ireland, perhaps more
so.
I don't particularly follow Celtic (I would never get a oppertunity
to watch a Celtic match on TV), plus the Scottish league, like the Irish league is with respect pretty poor.
Irish league matches will never be shown in England anyway.
I do love to watch Premiership matchs which involve Irish players
though so I can 'pick my squad'.
I also follow Nottingham Forest where Andy Reid had an influencial role in the 6:0 thrashing of the abysmal ( 4 points from 13 games ) Wimbledon. He is not always that effective, but when
Reid has a good game Forest win. Who has had a good game
for Ireland rececntly? He got a goal, can tackle, pass and go past players, qualities which have been in rather short supply in the
National side. John Thomson (also at Forest in defence) is another
who I feel could make an impact in the national side.
I was a little surprised when McPhail was in the Irish squad ahead
of Andy Reid, the name you will find on most Forest supporters
shirts. he makes things happen and Ireland need something to
happen!
As for Kerr, well the Jury is out, he hasn't worked any miracles so
far, "early doors" perhaps? I do wonder what a 'proven manager'
at the 'highest level' might have achieved, however I also wonder
if Ireland could get one of this 'rare breed'. I hope the future is
bright. Given Irelands 'limited resources' they have performed
magnificantly in the past, I hope the trend continues.
I don't go in for the negative side of supporting Ireland and I wish
those who do would take their support elsewhere because it
doesn't achieve anything.
Traveling to support Ireland is a little impractical for me.

[Junior]

Originally posted by RiffRaff

Having said that, I still don't make a connection between Celtic and Ireland.

Founded BY the Irish FOR The Irish, theres your connection.

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by tricky_colour
I don't like the term 'plastic paddy' as my blood is as Irish as
that of any man born in and living in Ireland, perhaps more
so.

There's no getting away from it Tricky, we'll never be seen as the full shilling by some. We are Irish, of that there's no doubt, but us 2G and 3Gers are also the product of something more. If you want to treat the term as a pejorative one, then you'll be insulted every time you hear it. And that's the stuff of which shoulder chips are made...

Learn to laugh at it. Roll with the punches. Embrace your Plasticity... ;)

:D PP - The Cockney Celt

[liam88]

excellent-Great to see i'm being accepted :)
The way I see it is you're nationality is respect for you're fellow countrymen, respect for the flag, respect for the country.
I have all of these plus an Irish accent :P
Hope I meet lots of new people here-hope Cobh Ramblers get promoted-hope the national team improves.....we'll be there in South Africa :D,
Thanx guys,
Liam

[BanagherOK!]

I would question the Irishness of any man who claimed to be Irish and was anti Celtic,

btw they are building a statue of a certain Sligo man outside of Celtic Park.

[SÓC]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
I would question the Irishness of any man who claimed to be Irish and was anti Celtic

Yea quite true actually, I heard recently if you dont vote Sinn Féin you're not Irish either.

Weren't the Wolftones great to come up with our National Anthem?

:rolleyes:

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by Conor74
you're a funny guy, Banagher, a real funny guy...class...you don't mind if I quote you in future posts on any board as the archetypal Celtic fan, do you?

I thought that was Silvio's job anyway?

Anyway, go easy on him, Conor, he might be related to me (my father is from just outside Banagher and we have family in the town. :) ). That said, I can't think of any Tims in my family other than meself...

:D PP

[liam88]

Some of our best national players started at Celitc-Given for example, Miller-young and upcoming.
I don't get anti-Celtic Irish folks-Celtic is far more Irish the Man Utd. or Liverpool and when I turned on a Liverpool match the other day they were singing Fields of Athenry!
Not sure bout voting Sinn Fein...... but let's sitck to footie.

What do you think about Rifles of the I.R.A and Come Out ye Black and Tans being sung at Celtic matches?

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by liam88
when I turned on a Liverpool match the other day they were singing Fields of Athenry!

Listen harder. They've taken the song and adapted it to "The Fields of Anfield Road". It's quite a witty reworking...

:D PP

---


Outside the Shankly Gates
I heard a Kopite calling :
Shankly they have taken you away
But you left a great eleven
Before you went to heaven
Now it's glory round the Fields of Anfield Road.

Chorus :
All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
We had Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

Outside the Paisley Gates
I heard a Kopite calling
Paisley they have taken you away..
You led the great 11
Back in Rome in 77
And the redmen they are still playing the same way

All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
We had Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

[Macy]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
I would question the Irishness of any man who claimed to be Irish and was anti Celtic,
LOL..... That's cheered me up on a Monday morning..... :D :D :D

[tiktok]

welcome aboard Liam88, there's been a lot of threads flying back and forth in the last while decrying/supporting celtic and this has split into threads questioning what 'makes' an irishman.
Most of the posters here are proud of their irishness and it's great to see.
my only reservation is that the Ireland that ex-pats (generally american ones to be fair) and Celtic fans cling to bears little resemblance to the ireland of today, and hopefully less to the ireland of tomorrow.
When someone says 'we're more irish then the irish themselves' it's often because they've lost sight of what ireland currently is, the culture ex-pats cling to is often that of DeValera, rather than of 21st century ireland.
Having said that, pride in your roots and your country's past is commendable and should be respected, it's a shame your a ramblers fan though:D :D

[S.E.P.1990]

Liverpool (for all their orange associations)

Why is it that it is only when i moved to Ireland I started hearing these ridiculous stories of Liverpool and their Orange associations?? I have been told that it was because our founder was an Orangeman, I have been told that KOP stands for King-Over-Pope, i have even been told its because they wear red shirts (??????????). Admittedly we sing a version of The Sash before games, however we also sing the wittily rewritten version of the truely abysmal Fields of Athenry. We also have very strong links to Dublin (sorry Glasgow) Celtic? And, the clincher, Everton play in royal blue (LOL)....

P.S. Do you think we should put the "Do you support Celtic" question on our passport application/citizenship. It would possibly be a cunning way of stopping non-WolfeTone singing, SF supporting, 110% Irish people without appearing too bigoted/racist??? Dammit, i better hand my passport back in now.......

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
That's exactly why. I know Liverpudlians who would never support Liverpool because of their sectarian origins and remember when Liverpool fans used to go on Orange Order marches.

http://www.redandwhitekop.net/print.php?sid=628
Liverpool as a city was hugely sectarian, and still has active orange lodges and marches on the 12th July.... (Reasons to hate scousers number 1029 ;) )

Everton were originally founded as a Catholic parish team.....

[S.E.P.1990]

Because Liverpool has so many Irish people there is bound to be relics of the age-old religious dispute. And to this effect there are Orange Lodges as well as republican clubs etc over there. However this has played no part in defining the two clubs in the city. Liverpool is not a Glasgow situation, it is only people outside the city have tried to split the two teams into a sectarian divide. I never once heard mention of any religious divide (in relation to the football teams) when i was being brought up.

As for the point that people wouldnt support Liverpool cos they are sectarian thats an easy thing to say - but where is the proof?

Surely, at face value (and by the way I dont actually believe this) but Everton with their inability to sign a black player until quite recently should be questioned more....

As for going on Orange Lodge marches I am quite sure that both sets of supporters went on Orange Lodge or Easter Rising marches. I am from a almost 100% Irish Catholic area and they are 90% Liverpool supporters - hardly the type of ppl who go on Orange Lodge marches.

As for the comment about hating scousers cos they have orange lodges - LOL repeatedly. Surely you should hate Glaswegians also cos i am sure they have way, way more lodges than us....

[fergalr]

Originally posted by Macy
Everton were originally founded as a Catholic parish team..... [/B]

At the playoff game at Anfield in 95, I was struck by how most of the locals there supporting Ireland turned out to be Evertonians.

[S.E.P.1990]

these things meant things to people a number of years back. As I said, I knew Irish people who wouldn't dream of suppoorting Liverpool purely because of the sectarian thing. It doesn't make them right or wrong, they just saw Liverpool as being pro-Unionist and Protestant back in the 40s and 50s.

As i said its not an issue in my lifetime and no mention has ever been made of it by anyone. I cant see how 60 years after u can still define two teams in that way.

As for ur point about anybody who knows football knows about the Everton/Liverpool divide - i have been going to Liverpool matches since 1978, my grandfather went to his first game in 1936 and, yet, it is only when I moved to Ireland I hear about a sectarian divide between the two teams. Do u think that, possibly, it wasnt as great a divide as it is liked to make out? Whilst i am obviously aware of a religious divide in the city, and have witnessed Easter marches and 12th July marches never have I heard these being linked to football clubs, whether in the present or the past.

As for the sectarian point - i am still waiting to find out how practically there was sectarianism at Liverpool (or indeed Everton).

P.S. Conor, due to my wonderful employers firewall i cant actually read the link (apologies)

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by fergalr
At the playoff game at Anfield in 95, I was struck by how most of the locals there supporting Ireland turned out to be Evertonians.

Everton have probably the oldest connections with Ireland than other club in England. Val Harris, an ex-Dublin Gaelic Footballer and Wexfordman Billy Lacey were the first Irish professional footballers from outside the North to become successful in England in 1900's when they played at Everton. Everton developed strong connections with Dublin and the Republic of Ireland especially in the 1950's when Eglinton and Farrell played for them. Half their side in the 1950's at one stage were Irish and one of them included an uncle of the Corrs! In fact, far more Irish players have played for Everton than Liverpool. Manchester United are the only English club to have had more Republic of Ireland internationals than the Toffeemen.

Although to say that Everton are a Catholic club would be inaccurate. They were founded by the members of the St Domingo's Methodist Church. Liverpool were founded by an Orangeman John Houlding and their first manager was also an Orangeman John McKenna. Catholics though would traditionally side with Everton rather than Liverpool becase of Everton's Irish connections and Liverpool's Orange links.

[Plastic Paddy]

While we're in to correcting factual inaccuracies, I'd like to point out that the reference in Conor's article,


This was a time when Rangers and Celtic were far more seperated than they are even now, with both only buying protestant or catholic players respectively

is wrong. Whilst Rangers eschewed signing Catholic players because of their religion right up until the time of Graeme Souness in the late 1980s, Celtic have always had an open policy in this regard. Nowhere was this exemplified better than in the 1967 European Cup-winning side, where the team manager and five of the side were Protestant. Indeed, Brother Walfrid (the club's founder) called the club "The Celtic Football and Athletic Club" rather than "The Irish..." because he wanted the club to be as inclusive as possible in assisting all of Glasgow's poor.

There. Speaking as a Celtic fan, even I understand some of the Celtic-knocking that goes on hereabouts (see BanagherOK's comments elsewhere on this board to see why). However, the facts need to be made clear, and this particular faux pas is one of the great mistakes generally made regarding Celtic's signing policy.

:D PP

[Greenbod]

Correct Paddy. As Jock Stein once said, Celtic will always have an advantage so long as Rangers keep this sectarian policy. Jock could have the pick of Glasgow's young footballers, whereas Rangers restricted themselves to 50% of the population.

[S.E.P.1990]

Conor,

many thanks for the article, most of which I knew apart from the Orange Order links. I knew McKenna was a Northern Irish protestant and as it was the late 19th/early 20th century should have put two and two together!!!!

Houlding, or 'King John' as he was known, was one of ...McKenna soon forged a friendship with the equally
strong willed Houlding, and was invited to watch Houlding's
team Everton play at Anfield

Along with the point made by Paddy Ramone, surely if Houlding was involved originally with Everton (until the dispute over rent) and they were formed by Methodists then there is, in fact, no sectarian divide but merely a choice about which team u like the best????

Anyhow, to get back to the original point u were making (and apologising for the diversion along the merry road) I agree that Liverpool, Man Utd etc have done far more in a footballing sense(which is the only sense that counts!!) for Ireland than Celtic ever have. Can anyone name a League of Ireland player who was signed by Celtic?

Jim Beglin, Ronnie Whelan, Mark Lawrenson, John Aldridge, Ray Houghton, Steve Heighway, Steve Finnan all spring instantly to mind just off the top of my head.

Man Utd - McGrath, Keane, Moran, Whiteside, Best, Stapleton, O'Shea

Celtic - Bonner, Chris Morris, Cascarino, McCarthy

If we look at the list
:D :D

[Paddy Ramone]

Sean Fallon who signed for Celtic in the 1950's played League of Ireland football for Sligo Rovers.

About Celtic signing only Catholic players, while in theory Celtic have always been open to Protestants, isn't true that the first few seasons of Celtic's existence, the club was almost entirely Catholic. In the very first match Celtic played in 1888 aginst Rangers the entire side were Catholic. Also traditionally Celtic usually have more Catholic players than non-Cahtolics. The first non-Catholic member of the board of directors at Celtic was only appointed in recent years when Ian MacLeod was given a place on the board.

[lopez]

Originally posted by liam88
excellent-Great to see i'm being accepted :)
The way I see it is you're nationality is respect for you're fellow countrymen, respect for the flag, respect for the country.
I have all of these plus an Irish accent

Born in England with an Irish accent? Are you a Plastic 'Plastic Paddy'?:D

Welcome aboard liam. As you see you're amongst friends.

Regarding the Liverpool/ Everton sectarian divide, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I think that people are looking into too much here. It's like if we started saying that in London we have Arsenal / Chelsea or some other pointless conbination. Load of cojones: There are just as many Paddies - 'athenticos/ plasticos' - that support Liverpool as Everton.

Anyway, I always thought Everton was founded by some followers of John Wesley. (see link below)

http://www.toffeeweb.com/history/concise/1878-1888.asp

And with their animosity towards the devil's buttermilk, it's hardly the sort of club the Irish would normally join.:eek:

[Paddy Ramone]

[i]Originally posted by lopez [/]

Anyway, I always thought Everton was founded by some followers of John Wesley. (see link below)

http://www.toffeeweb.com/history/concise/1878-1888.asp

And with their animosity towards the devil's buttermilk, it's hardly the sort of club the Irish would normally join.:eek: [/B]

The Orangeman who founded Liverpool, John Houlding was a brewery owner. According to a history of Liverpool, I read that was one of the factors that lead to the falling out with the other members of the Everton board and the founding of Liverpool FC.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
The Orangeman who founded Liverpool, John Houlding was a brewery owner. According to a history of Liverpool, I read that was one of the factors that lead to the falling out with the other members of the Everton board and the founding of Liverpool FC.

You can take the Irishman out of Ireland but you can't take the Ireland out of the Irishman...even if he's a methodist, or an orangeman, or both.:D

[Macy]

Originally posted by S.E.P.1990
Man Utd - McGrath, Keane, Moran, Whiteside, Best, Stapleton, O'Shea
Irwin, Cantwell, Carey, Blanchflower, Gregg, McIlroy, Nicholl, Giles, Dunphy, Brennan.... :confused:

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez
Born in England with an Irish accent? Are you a Plastic 'Plastic Paddy'?:D
Anyway, I always thought Everton was founded by some followers of John Wesley. (see link below)

http://www.toffeeweb.com/history/concise/1878-1888.asp

And with their animosity towards the devil's buttermilk, it's hardly the sort of club the Irish would normally join.:eek:

When Hibernian were founded in 1875 by the Irish Catholics in Edinburgh, all their players had to pledge that they would abstain from alcohol. Hibs were the first football team to be founded and run by the Irish ever. Although this rule was get rid of in the 1890's. Hibernian are now sponsored by Carlsberg! :D

[liam88]

Originally posted by lopez
Born in England with an Irish accent? Are you a Plastic 'Plastic Paddy'?:D

I'm not into this whole 'Plastic Paddy' label so it's nice to see most of you respecting me for who I am ;) I could have just as easily told you I live in Cork and you would have accepted me so don't think of me as any less Irish because I live in England-it's where you're loyalties lie and mine are firmly in Ireland.
Might be hard for some of you to treat me as Irish and I fully repect that because living all your life in Ireland you may easily view me as less Irish than you but PLEASE don't write any of us off as 'Plastic'.
When I take abuse in the streets for wearing my Irish shirt and have my tri-colour ripped off the roof of my house by racists during the world cup it's nice to come and and be amongst friends as you pointed out :D so thank you.
Regarding the Irish accent, you learn how to speak from your parents in your first year or so don't you so if your parents have an accent..........natural ain't it :)

[John83]

Originally posted by liam88
I could have just as easily told you I live in Cork and you would have accepted me so don't think of me as any less Irish because I live in England...

Actually, if you'd told us you were from Cork, we'd would have had a few more reservations about you ;)

[lopez]

Originally posted by liam88
Regarding the Irish accent, you learn how to speak from your parents in your first year or so don't you so if your parents have an accent..........natural ain't it :)

La verdad hombre. That's why my posts are scattered with Spanish profanities.

As for Man Ure, thanx lads, I now know where I was going wrong. :rolleyes: Should be supporting Ireland's most popular club.

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by Conor74
Celtic's record with Irish players is pretty terrible actually. Let's see, before (the still uncapped) Miller there was Tony Cascarino, Mick McCarthy and Pearce O'Leary. Oh, and Packie. Most English clubs have much better traditions. In recent years, Leeds have had up to five Irish players in squads, and clubs like Manchester United and Liverpool (for all their orange associations) have had even prouder traditions. Think players like Keane/ Irwin/ Moran/ McGrath/ Stapleton/Daly and a host of others at Old Trafford. That, more than anything, always makes me wonder if Celtic are really proud of their Irish connection or if, as I think, it's one hilarious marketing ploy to flog merchandise around the world. Ooops, sorry Banagher, I must be a foreigner...

Not at all Connor you just sound like a Hun,

The main reason many good Irish players have played in the English top league as compared to the Scottish league with Celtic is to do with tv exposure and money, only until the last few years have people over here been able to see live Celtic matches via Sky while the English teams have had much more tv exposure and more money to spend on scouting networks,,,,,,btw I see you never mentioned any players from the North but I assume you dont class them as Irishmen :D

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
Sean Fallon who signed for Celtic in the 1950's played League of Ireland football for Sligo Rovers.

About Celtic signing only Catholic players, while in theory Celtic have always been open to Protestants, isn't true that the first few seasons of Celtic's existence, the club was almost entirely Catholic. In the very first match Celtic played in 1888 aginst Rangers the entire side were Catholic. Also traditionally Celtic usually have more Catholic players than non-Cahtolics. The first non-Catholic member of the board of directors at Celtic was only appointed in recent years when Ian MacLeod was given a place on the board.

Its only recently that the baord has been opened up at all!
Before that a few familied ruled the roost (Kelly's, White's) for generations and ran the club into the ground!

The reason all the team were catholic in the first few years is because they poached most of them from Hibs:D

The reason most players were catholics is because most of the fans in the sorrounding areas who supported Celtic were catholics!
Even when Celtic won the European Cup and were regularly in the last eight Celtic were still a selling team.
There were very few big money deals in those days so most of those that played for the club tended to be local lads who supported the team, in general this was true for most clubs around the world before tv money arrived!

[Lionel Hutz]

I always thought racism was more of a problem at club level for Liverpool as apposed to secterianism.
There was a documentary on some time ago about the first black man to play for the club and the issues he encountered!
Although I must say I forget his name :(

Also werent Liverpool called "Niggerpool" in reference to their attitude to black players?

[John83]

Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
I always thought racism was more of a problem at club level for Liverpool as apposed to secterianism.

I was told once that Everton were once considered the Catholic club in Liverpool. I don't know if that's true, or even how long ago it refers to.

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by tiktok
what 'makes' an irishman.
Most of the posters here are proud of their irishness and it's great to see.
my only reservation is that the Ireland that ex-pats (generally american ones to be fair) and Celtic fans cling to bears little resemblance to the ireland of today, and hopefully less to the ireland of tomorrow.
When someone says 'we're more irish then the irish themselves' it's often because they've lost sight of what ireland currently is, the culture ex-pats cling to is often that of DeValera, rather than of 21st century ireland.


Excluding any refrence to Americans which I know nothing about your reference to Celtic fans show you dont have much grasp of the situation,,,do you honestly think Celtic supporters drinking in bars all over the Glasgow area sit misty eye gazing at their pints thinking of the old country????? jeeeeeeeeeeez ,,,Ive never heard one Celtic fan in all my years say they were more Irish (or think they were) than the Irish

If it wasnt for the anti Irish\catholic feeling in the west of Scotland by the Orange sympathisers Celtics "Irishness" would have been much diluted over the generations and in many ways the pro Irish sentiment is an act of defiance against such bigotry

[Macy]

Well there was the John Barnes incident in the scouse derby when he got banana's thrown at him from both sets of fans...... So witty those loveable scouse scallys.....

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
I always thought racism was more of a problem at club level for Liverpool as apposed to secterianism.
There was a documentary on some time ago about the first black man to play for the club and the issues he encountered!
Although I must say I forget his name :(

Also werent Liverpool called "Niggerpool" in reference to their attitude to black players?

Howard Gayle was the first black player to play for Liverpool back in the early 80's. He only made five appearances for them.

Everton's Mike Trebilcock was of mixed race and scored two goals for them in the 1966 FA Cup Final.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by John83
I was told once that Everton were once considered the Catholic club in Liverpool. I don't know if that's true, or even how long ago it refers to.

That has to do with the large number of Irish Catholics who played for Everton in the forties, fifties and early sixties. A street was even called after one of their Irish players Peter Farrell.

Also in the early sixties Everton had an Irish Catholic manager Johnny Carey and ex-Celtic player Bobby Collins playing for them while ex-Rangers player Willie Stevenson was playing for Liverpool. So some people regarded Liverpool as a Protestant club and Everton as a Catholic club but both clubs have Protestant origins as I mentioned earlier.

[John83]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
That has to do with the large number of Irish Catholics who played for Everton in the forties, fifties and early sixties...
Thanks for the info.

[Paddy Ramone]

No problem.

[lopez]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
btw I see you never mentioned any players from the North but I assume you dont class them as Irishmen :D

Hit the nail right on the head there mate!


Originally posted by tiktok
my only reservation is that the Ireland that ex-pats (generally american ones to be fair) and Celtic fans cling to bears little resemblance to the ireland of today, and hopefully less to the ireland of tomorrow.

If we take an interest in Ireland, its history and its present political situation, we are misty - eyed guinness suppers dreaming of Sean Thornton and Squire Danaher having yet another scrap about Mary Kate's dowery. If we are into Bob Marley, Bishop's Finger and Eatenders, then it proves we're just not REALLY Irish.:rolleyes:

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by Conor74
I didn't mention Norn Irish players purely because Anton Rogan slipped my mind, as I'm sure he would slip most people's minds. Hld my hands up about Neil Lennon. Perhaps in Banagher and Laaaaandaaaaaaaan these things have deep political significance.

So a plastic and a fan of a British team want to discuss how Irish I am? Interesting, if slightly hilarious.

An Irishman who recently had death threats made against him by loyalists and is forced out of the NI international team because he is from the north of Ireland and plays for the "Catholic" club Celtic slipped your mind huh?,,,,perhaps in your part of the world these things have no deep political meaning.

keep taking the laughing gas

[Macy]

Moved to general football..... More about scouse football than anything (and I'm not having that in a forum I'm moderating ;) )....

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by Conor74
Hey, Biffo's back. Did you all stand for the Queen Mum at Celtic. Did it make you feel all Irish and proud? How could us non-Celtic fans possibly be as Irish as you? From the heart of that republican bastion...Offaly :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Now now Conor, this is descending into playground slanging and I'm not sure that's going to achieve anything apart from setting board users squarely against each other. Especially when a common cause has brought us here together in the first place. Or do you want to start the Civil War all over again? Bloody Kerry rabblerousers... ;) (FWIW, we didn't stand that day. It was a matter of some unease among the supporters that a minute's silence was held at all. But I digress.)

And, for another thing, I don't particularly appreciate the use of the term "plastic" in the pejorative sense. See below.


Originally posted by liam88
I'm not into this whole 'Plastic Paddy' label so it's nice to see most of you respecting me for who I am I could have just as easily told you I live in Cork and you would have accepted me so don't think of me as any less Irish because I live in England-it's where you're loyalties lie and mine are firmly in Ireland.
Might be hard for some of you to treat me as Irish and I fully repect that because living all your life in Ireland you may easily view me as less Irish than you but PLEASE don't write any of us off as 'Plastic'.
Liam, ditch the victim mentality. As I keep stressing hereabouts, to be a "plastic" is not to be inferior or second class. As the song says, there are "forty shades of green". I know myself to be Irish, whatever anyone else says, and I would urge you to see it the same way. Diversity is strength. Revel in it. I know I do.


Originally posted by BanagherOK
Not at all Connor you just sound like a Hun,
Banagher, you sound like a fud. Some impression of Celtic fans you're giving with an approach like that. It rather reminds me of George W Bush's "if you're not for us, you're against us". Which is crap of the first order. Get used to it - there are some Irish people who do not like Celtic. Entirely their prerogative, and to call their background/allegiances into question as a result is childish. End of story.

:D PP

[lopez]

Originally posted by Conor74
So a plastic and a fan of a British team want to discuss how Irish I am? Interesting, if slightly hilarious.

What British team is that? Sounds like from one of your posts on the equally mundane 'when is an irish man an irish man' thread that it is you who likes watching British football. To remind you this was the one where in contrast to your loathing of Celtic fans, you took time out to criticise my aversion to England supporters, the poor misjudged dears.

The last league game I went to where I supported any English side was Arsenal against Man U in the autumn of 1981, when I was 15. It was the game where Frank Stapleton got a load of abuse, some of it anti-Irish, from the home support. I began to think English football was mierda then, and still do.

Connor tell me, if being born in Ireland was the only prerequisite for being a true Irishman, then how come Ireland (let's keep it to the 26 counties here) have spawned such great 'Irishmen' as Edward Carson, Henry Wilson, the Duke of Wellington and not forgetting that great Kerryman, Lord Kitchener.?

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by Conor74
All points taken, PP. Guess I overreacted to some gob****e calling me a "hun" because I don't share his football views.
.

Its not about having a different point of view its about your HUN point of view you stupid fecker

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by lopez
Connor tell me, if being born in Ireland was the only prerequisite for being a true Irishman, then how come Ireland (let's keep it to the 26 counties here) have spawned such great 'Irishmen' as Edward Carson, Henry Wilson, the Duke of Wellington and not forgetting that great Kerryman, Lord Kitchener.?

Excellent point

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
Its not about having a different point of view its about your HUN point of view you stupid fecker

Like I said before, this kind of ****e is embarrassing. The man disagrees with you, as is his prerogative. Calling him a 'hun' does little for the reputation of Celtic fans as a whole. Disagree by all means, but choose your comebacks more carefully. Time for a little growing up.

For the benefit of anyone reading one of my earlier posts (in which I tried to defend our friend here), I'd like to point out for the record that my auld fella comes from just over the Galway side of Banagher bridge... :rolleyes: ;)

:D PP