The "Ultra" Culture

[Sean South]

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words fail me!
I can say the same about your posts

[GenerationXI]

Reading through this thread and the cringeworthy posts the only decent post was joey Killesters. There are some good groups in Ireland and the mentality is increasing each season. I have to laugh at people who haven't a clue about the culture saying Irish groups would be laughed at by our European counterparts. There is a growing respect for the Irish ultra scene you have to remember its only a fairly new here compared to 30-40 years in other countries. Also when people say we're trying to be like the Italians we're not we're trying to create our own scene. Like it or not the ultra culture is part of the league of Ireland now and is here to stay

Anyone who has 'respect' for the 'Irish Ultra Scene' (as though it deserves capitals *shudder*) is either using serious drugs or has been lied to.

What exactly will this scene of yours be like? A load of middle-class kids who love to think they're working class waving flags at games, singing stolen chants, obstructing everyone else's view with flares - which by the way is the cheapest way to 'create an atmosphere' imaginable - and causing the odd ruckus ''down the pub; bit of 'argy bargy innit?''

This ''part of the league'' accommodates the kids and families we're trying to draw to games how exactly? We're actually supposed to be trying to encourage younger attendees to become fans or footballers not lazy lay about scum who worry more about what they're drinking, or with whom they're fighting, after the game than the game itself.:rolleyes:

[srfc1928]

Anyone who has 'respect' for the 'Irish Ultra Scene' (as though it deserves capitals *shudder*) is either using serious drugs or has been lied to.

What exactly will this scene of yours be like? A load of middle-class kids who love to think they're working class waving flags at games, singing stolen chants, obstructing everyone else's view with flares - which by the way is the cheapest way to 'create an atmosphere' imaginable - and causing the odd ruckus ''down the pub; bit of 'argy bargy innit?''

This ''part of the league'' accommodates the kids and families we're trying to draw to games how exactly? We're actually supposed to be trying to encourage younger attendees to become fans or footballers not lazy lay about scum who worry more about what they're drinking, or with whom they're fighting, after the game than the game itself.:rolleyes:

And look I really tried to resist making this point, but do you really think the leader of an IRA military column fatally wounded during an attempt to storm an RUC barracks is a good handle for someone posting on a website dedicated to a british game? I think the hypocracy is causing the man's grave to convulse.
:rolleyes: What has this last paragraph and "british game" comment got to do with this thread. Cheap shot

[GenerationXI]

:rolleyes: What has this last paragraph and "british game" comment got to do with this thread. Cheap shot

Fair comment. It shall be removed.

[sadloserkid]

Fair comment. It shall be removed.

Why? It wasn't that cheap a shot tbh.

I can't believe the fervour people are displaying about what is basically semantics in this thread. Basically everybody agrees that colour and noise are a good thing at games. The 'Ultra' Culture (or should that be The Ultra 'Culture' :p) is just a label. To be fairly blunt about it if you go to a football match looking for a fight you're an absolute waste of oxygen. If you go to make a lot of noise and wave flags etc etc then regardless of whether you're in a group of one or one thousand I salute your enthusiasm at least. Brainless chants annoy me though...

What is the actual discussion here again? :confused:

[micls]

Why? It wasn't that cheap a shot tbh.

I can't believe the fervour people are displaying about what is basically semantics in this thread. Basically everybody agrees that colour and noise are a good thing at games. The 'Ultra' Culture (or should that be The Ultra 'Culture' :p) is just a label. To be fairly blunt about it if you go to a football match looking for a fight you're an absolute waste of oxygen. If you go to make a lot of noise and wave flags etc etc then regardless of whether you're in a group of one or one thousand I salute your enthusiasm at least. Brainless chants annoy me though...

What is the actual discussion here again? :confused:

From what I can see-people dotn like other people calling themselves ultras....for some strange inexplicable reason since it in no way affects them

[sadloserkid]

From what I can see-people dotn like other people calling themselves ultras....for some strange inexplicable reason since it in no way affects them

Ah I see it now, you've got it completely right, it's Irish people being Irish then. :eek:

[Schumi]

I can't believe the fervour people are displaying about what is basically semantics in this thread.Really? Have you not read threads on this website before? :p

[BohsPartisan]

Another example of someone who doesn't really know what an ultra is.

Who cares what you or your fruit based counterparts think. You'll never get it will you?

[GenerationXI]

Yeah this is utterly retarded to be honest. Rambling Along dislikes kids who think they're hard and want to fight other kids and the more cerebral of us agree prima facie with that while the more intellectually challenged have tried to grapple with their own sense of identity, namely, the quandry presented by trying to balance being cool with being a moron. I refrain from tossing out pen and sword metaphors here, but to echo the sentiments of most of the more coherent posters and condense the corpus of argument into one simple maxim for the mongoloids to understand: Violence = Bad.

[BohsPartisan]

Yeah this is utterly retarded to be honest. Rambling Along dislikes kids who think they're hard and want to fight other kids and the more cerebral of us agree prima facie with that while the more intellectually challenged have tried to grapple with their own sense of identity, namely, the quandry presented by trying to balance being cool with being a moron. I refrain from tossing out pen and sword metaphors here, but to echo the sentiments of most of the more coherent posters and condense the corpus of argument into one simple maxim for the mongoloids to understand: Violence = Bad.

1. What has this got to do with the Ultras scene in Ireland?

2. Are you Rico in disguise?

[Red Star]

GenerationXI you haven't a clue:rolleyes: I don't see why non ultras get so worked up about groups of lads using the word ultras when it's none of there concern. If you're not part of the scene you won't get it and as for the people who use wikipedia to define the ultras mentality all I can say is :rolleyes:

[sadloserkid]

Really? Have you not read threads on this website before? :p

Touche! I should know better by now for sure. :p

[cheech]

How a UCD fan can give anyone grief about how they support their team is unbelievable!

[BohsPartisan]

To me, it seems like people watched Ardal O'Hanlon's "Leagues Apart", specifically the episode on the Rome Derby and thought, "I'll have a piece of that!" and called their supporters groups "X Ultras"


BTW, meant to say earlier, there have been Ultras groups in Ireland for over ten years. SEI and SRFC Ultras were the first afaik and obviously weren't influenced by Ardal O'Hanlon! :rolleyes:

I think that before people start posting rubbish, they should make sure they know what they are talking about.

[Djrgrn]

Ultra culture in its essence is quite an admirable thing for a club to have, and I mean the Ultra culture without violence. If every team was to have large bands of fans that put time and effort into tifo displays, never sat down, and sang for their team for 90 minutes home and away no matter what the score I think football would be in a much better place. We have to remember that not ALL ultras are hooligans too. I realise that the like of the Italian 'Ultras' have scared off families and normal supporters from going to games for fear of violence and intimidation which has led to a huge drop in ticket sales for Serie A & B, I even have a mate who lives in Rome, is a huge Lazio fan, sits in Curva Nord, holds a season ticket but STILL picks his games carefully and never messes with the irriducibili. I think it's ridiculous. I support a Swedish team ,Djurgården, and although they do have a firm, they're ultras are non violent and brilliant supporters, I've been to games, home and away, and never failed to be impressed by their commitment to their team, I think if ultras could be more like that we'd all enjoy going to games a lot more.

[GenerationXI]

I don't see why non ultras get so worked up about groups of lads using the word ultras when it's none of there concern. If you're not part of the scene you won't get it and as for the people who use wikipedia to define the ultras mentality all I can say is :rolleyes:

Firstly, the idea of an open forum is for people to air their opinions on things which are essentially none of their concern. If the opposite was true then people would confine themselves to their own clubs' threads. Basically, the reason people find the use of the word laughable is because it's taken almost completely out of context in Ireland.

I've never used wikipedia as a source for a definition of ultras. But common sense and reading books about the culture in, inter alia, Italy, Germany, Britain and Eastern Europe, aswell as South America would tell anyone with opposable thumbs that the groups in those areas bare ABSOLUTELY NO RESEMBLANCE to the 'ultras' in Ireland. Thus, it is one thing to adopt the moniker of a group of people whose behaviour one is mimicking, it is another entirely to take something, which by many people's admission, is vastly different and apply the same label.

This argument is basically about terminology and you can't expect us pedants not to get worked up over it. It is illogical to spawn a group out of nothing and adopt the label of another. This is why, for example, there are no NAZIs today - to call anyone a NAZI is to desregard the fact that they are not a member of the National Sozialismus Partei Deutschlands which was disbanded at the end of the war. For new groups and movements new names are created, but there is no god who could help this league if ingenuity and creativity were traits of its fans. :rolleyes:

[Djrgrn]

But common sense and reading books about the culture in, inter alia, Italy, Germany, Britain and Eastern Europe, aswell as South America would tell anyone with opposable thumbs that the groups in those areas bare ABSOLUTELY NO RESEMBLANCE to the 'ultras' in Ireland.

I have to agree, although their aims may be similar, Ireland, up till now at least, has never come close to the likes of this:
*ahem* ignore the 'hooligans.cz' bit, they just host the image.
http://ultras-not-huligans.weblog.ro/usercontent/22006/Ultras-St.Etienne.jpg

[jebus]

I'll say again that there are no proper Ultra groups in Ireland, this is where my bone of contention lies with groups calling themselves Ultra

I have never seen an Eircom team (and I think I've seen them all live at this stage)that sings for 90 minutes for one, none of us do. There are singular games where this might happen sure, but for visits by lower clubs it doesn't, not here. People use the Shamrock Rovers Ultras as the focal point for the Irish Ultras movement as apparantly they are the best, but when they were in the First Division I didn't see any of it in our matches against them. They sang as much as you'd expect someone to sing would, there was no displays, and in general were a bit quiet for their second visit after the trouble at their first visit.

This is why I say that proper Ultras groups from Italy, Eastern Europe, wherever would laugh at Irish Ultras if they could actually see them in action

[GenerationXI]

http://ultras-not-huligans.weblog.ro/usercontent/22006/Ultras-St.Etienne.jpg

Amazing. Any idiot can light a few flares in a crowd at night time and wave a few flags but this is the balls. :)

[Billy Lord]

I'll say again that there are no proper Ultra groups in Ireland, this is where my bone of contention lies with groups calling themselves Ultra

I have never seen an Eircom team (and I think I've seen them all live at this stage)that sings for 90 minutes for one, none of us do. There are singular games where this might happen sure, but for visits by lower clubs it doesn't, not here. People use the Shamrock Rovers Ultras as the focal point for the Irish Ultras movement as apparantly they are the best, but when they were in the First Division I didn't see any of it in our matches against them. They sang as much as you'd expect someone to sing would, there was no displays, and in general were a bit quiet for their second visit after the trouble at their first visit.

This is why I say that proper Ultras groups from Italy, Eastern Europe, wherever would laugh at Irish Ultras if they could actually see them in action

Or they could just take your word seeing as you're the expert on this matter. :rolleyes:

[L37Ultra]

I have to agree, although their aims may be similar, Ireland, up till now at least, has never come close to the likes of this:
*ahem* ignore the 'hooligans.cz' bit, they just host the image.
http://ultras-not-huligans.weblog.ro/usercontent/22006/Ultras-St.Etienne.jpg


Sure they can't even see the match :D;)

[Djrgrn]

Sure even the players aren't into the match...

[GenerationXI]

Sure even the players aren't into the match...

More in common with our league than immediately appeared evident. :p

[Djrgrn]

haha, brilliant.

[Candystripe]

I have never seen an Eircom team (and I think I've seen them all live at this stage)that sings for 90 minutes for one, none of us do.

Have you never been to a Derry game then? :confused:

[bray boy]

sorry but some of the absolute sh!te on this thread is unreal.
If you see a number of young lads hangin around after games they are either: wannabe casuals or scumbags doing waht they do best.'ultras' wont be involved!
None of the ultra groups in Ireland are the ones causing trouble outside grounds. Has anyone ever heard of the under 5's ,BSC, or even SSC and CCC???
Most people here are talking about stuff that they think they no but really dont.

[BohsPartisan]

This argument is basically about terminology and you can't expect us pedants not to get worked up over it. It is illogical to spawn a group out of nothing and adopt the label of another. This is why, for example, there are no NAZIs today - to call anyone a NAZI is to desregard the fact that they are not a member of the National Sozialismus Partei Deutschlands which was disbanded at the end of the war. For new groups and movements new names are created, but there is no god who could help this league if ingenuity and creativity were traits of its fans. :rolleyes:

Well at least you admit you are a pedant. Nazism is an ideology based on Hitlers thought, so there can be Nazis.

[Lim till i die]

Have you never been to a Derry game then? :confused:

I've been at three.

Did they sing for 90 minutes??

Did they fook!!

[BohsPartisan]

I've been at three.

Did they sing for 90 minutes??

Did they fook!!

All I can ever hear is the drum.

[Lim till i die]

All I can ever hear is the drum.

He's actually facing away from the game most of the time :rolleyes:

[BohsPartisan]

He's actually facing away from the game most of the time :rolleyes:
I would too if I was a Derry fan! :D

[Djrgrn]

Its the same with Bray, that drum ringing out for 90 mins.

[GenerationXI]

Your right irish ultras never had anyting like that but thats because we simply don't have big enough numbers to do so

If I ever see a group of people pull off somthing like that in Ireland I will hold my hand up and say "I stand corrected, that is an Irish Ultra group." Until then I refuse to budge, I am after all a Nazi-Pedant. ;)

[forza rovers]

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3571/frvscobhzy2.pnghttp://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7940/frvsgalway2ku2.png
the top one is our 80th anniversary

[Candystripe]

I've been at three.

Did they sing for 90 minutes??

Did they fook!!



Take a wee run up the road on sunday then and you'll be proved wrong.


I would too if I was a Derry fan! :D

As a big pub fan you should be more worried about getting the lowest average attendance ever for a league winning side in the history of the game in Ireland!

Even lower than what Shels got!

BTW your average crowd in the Setanta cup since it began has been 000000000 :D

Thats the competition the big pub failed to get into as you's lost the LC final last year.

[Lim till i die]

Take a wee run up the road on sunday then and you'll be proved wrong.

Why??

Because there's a possibility ye might sing for the full 90 minutes of a cup semi-final??

*Claps Sarcastically. :rolleyes:

And I shant be going to the match as it clashes with Chelsea V Liverpool. I'm what's wrong with the league, beat me with sticks etc, etc, etc.

[Lim till i die]

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3571/frvscobhzy2.pnghttp://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7940/frvsgalway2ku2.png
the top one is our 80th anniversary

Second one is super gay.

Even gayer than when we did that big, naked, gay pyramid

[John83]

Second one is super gay.

Even gayer than when we did that big, naked, gay pyramid
And this from a man who voluntarily sleeps with men. ;)

[Lim till i die]

And this from a man who voluntarily sleeps with men. ;)

Direct all your anger here facist!! (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=104384) :p

[Joey Killester]

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3571/frvscobhzy2.pnghttp://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7940/frvsgalway2ku2.png
the top one is our 80th anniversary

I thought there were members of your group earlier in the thread saying they hated the word ultra and didnt consider themselves ultras?

[Sean South]

I thought there were members of your group earlier in the thread saying they hated the word ultra and didnt consider themselves ultras?
Because someone posts on a message board it doesn't necessary mean they are active members in our group. When myself and some others set up the group we saw ourself as an ultras group nothings changed.

[sligoman]

I thought there were members of your group earlier in the thread saying they hated the word ultra and didnt consider themselves ultras?Does one person ever represent a full group?

[Joey Killester]

So are you in the group, Sligoman? Becuase Sean South is more or less saying that your arnt. Anyway I just find it odd someone being in a group who claim to be ultras is against the whole ultra thing.

[sligoman]

So are you in the group, Sligoman? Becuase Sean South is more or less saying that your arnt. Anyway I just find it odd someone being in a group who claim to be ultras is against the whole ultra thing.Well I thought myself and Rovers1(who also commented that he doesn't see the group as ultras) were part of it but obviously Sean South doesn't think so judging by his post. I personally don't care whether I'm classed as part of the group or not, I sang at matches before Forza Rovers came along anyway.

[Joey Killester]

Ok, Im not trying to stir sh*t, just wondering.

[GenerationXI]

Well I thought myself and Rovers1(who also commented that he doesn't see the group as ultras) were part of it but obviously Sean South doesn't think so judging by his post.

OOOOhhhhhh FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

[Rovers1]

oooohhhhhh fight fight fight!!!

careful now!

[MMVIII]

I never knew that so much personal opinion can be regarded as fact? Any "trouble" at eircom league matches is done by these so called "casuals" or schooligans. Whats wrong with trying to create a bit of a better atmosphere at matches wheter that be through flags, banners whatever. So there was never any trouble at irish matches before no? Its just now theres a group of fans people who havent a clue can blame it on. Thats just my personal opinion! And sligoman i think Sean South is going by your post on this thread.