View Full Version : The Budget Thread
Irish Times preview (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/1014/1223921130539.html)
Fairly depressing reading. Taxes and more taxes.
Dodge
14/10/2008, 11:15 AM
Indo preview (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget-2009/news/take-your-medicine-1498049.html)
Oh and its seems they're not raising income tax. They're just introducing a "levy", and increasing PRSI :rolleyes:
The levy suggestion is terrible - all workers on all their income! No suggestion anywhere of them closing loopholes for the super rich, or a minimum tax payment. They should also tighten the non residency tax laws to either make the tax exiles pay more or visit less.
dahamsta
14/10/2008, 12:44 PM
Let's save the vitriol for after the actual budget has been released please. There'll be plenty of time for the probably justified anger then.
adam
mypost
14/10/2008, 1:17 PM
The two things I'll be looking out for, are the (standard) tax rate, and the welfare allowance for unemployment, as 300-350k will need it next year. I'll be happy if they can push it up to €200 a week. It's probably the best that can be hoped for.
kingdom hoop
14/10/2008, 1:42 PM
At €198 it's practically €200 already though Mypost. I'm hoping for a slightly bigger increase to balance any increase in cigarettes. :(
You can watch it from the Oireachtas website (here (http://oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/Web-Live.htm&CatID=83&m=o)), or I suppose on RTÉ website either. Starts at 3.30 I think? Leaders' Questions is on at the moment. Like Adam above, I don't see much point getting heated before the event (though things are pretty heated at the moment, Kenny getting very riled!)
mypost
14/10/2008, 1:51 PM
Used to be 4.15, but now it's 3.45.
kingdom hoop
14/10/2008, 1:52 PM
It's the RTÉ coverage that's at half three anyway. My mistake.
Gilmore typically pathetic in LQs. Cowen fairly up for it.
Edit: From RTÉ website: "The Minister for Finance, Brian Lenihan, will outline its contents to the Dáil at 3.45pm this afternoon."
Like Adam above, I don't see much point getting heated before the event
The above is just the pre-match warm up. :D Devil is normally in the detail rather than the speech anyway, and even then it's the bill that really has the detail.
mypost
14/10/2008, 2:49 PM
Today's budget is the first in memory, held in October on a Tuesday. To fit in with Sarkosy's demands for an EU summit tomorrow. :rolleyes::(
Meanwhile, it commences.....
Today's budget is the first in memory, held in October on a Tuesday. To fit in with Sarkosy's demands for an EU summit tomorrow. :rolleyes::(
YOu mean the European Council that's been planned since last December should move because our government decided a month ago to move the Budget from December to October?
Or are you just looking for another excuse to have a moan at the EU
Reality Bites
14/10/2008, 2:54 PM
Thread Title should read Budget 2009?
NeilMcD
14/10/2008, 2:54 PM
With your name, are you the Minister for Finance. !!!!
mypost
14/10/2008, 3:04 PM
First cut:
Automatic Medical card abolished for those 70+.
http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/budget2009/mainpoints/
Rolling main points in text format here
mypost
14/10/2008, 3:22 PM
Standard Tax Rate up by .5% from December.
Airfare tax of €10 from end of March.
Automatic Medical card abolished for those 70+.
How much do they save with this? How much will it cost to means test?
Standard Tax Rate up by .5% from December.
Think its the standard VAT rate (21% -> 21.5%)
mypost
14/10/2008, 3:35 PM
Motor tax up 4-5%, and additional stealth tax to promote the use of public transport.
Bloodbath ends, now the inquest begins.
1% income levy on earnings up to €100,000, and 2% on earnings over that
He will get slated for that as will also affect the lowest paid.
Looks like he sprinkled the fairy dust of tax increase on anything he could think of. Can't find a targeted policy of any sort.
Medical card means tested for 70+ but if you don't quality get E400 grant. Seems like will cost more to operate than any savings made.
Lots of tax increases, not many spending cuts. Good times good, hope ye enjoyed it.
Were there any property changes? Media seemed to be talking up that likelihood... I only saw...
Top rate of commercial property stamp duty cut from 9% to 6%
OneRedArmy
14/10/2008, 3:47 PM
FF prove they're a one trick pony.
I can't see one thing that I would see as "innovative".
As for raising taxes in the face of a recession, you don't need to be Paul Krugman to see the folly of this.
Clueless, but we (collectively in case anyone thinks I was stupid enough to vote for what is basically a front for the VFI and the CIF) deserve it for voting them in...
Were there any property changes? Media seemed to be talking up that likelihood... I only saw...
From IT bit
---
€5 million for warmer homes scheme
€1.65 billion to be spent to housing programmes in 2009
Government to take an equity share in affordable housing
Actually, everything is here
http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html
http://www.budget.gov.ie/
Reality Bites
14/10/2008, 4:09 PM
He Bottled it Big Style - Nothing Nefarious in this when there should have been a few Haymakers
Good God, wine has gone up by 50% :eek::eek:
It's like they don't want us to be cultured
I can't see one thing that I would see as "innovative".
Not seen an innovative budget for a long time.
Tax Calculator (http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/)
Edit: Using some sample incomes can see tax increases not exactly progressive. The calculator only accounts for the direct income taxes. With VAT increases means almost everything you purchase increases by 0.5%
Utterly inept - under what possible economic theory manual did this clown find the inspiration to increase spending - not just spending but spending to the public service ?
The bottomless pits that are health and education - and before anybody responds - let's get one thing out of the way - there is mopre than enough money in health and education - the problem is waste, mismanagement, insufficient supervision and oversight by politicaians, and a desire to outsource responsibility.
The other piece I love is the 41 state agencies merged - this makes zero difference to the bottom line and is simply a recipe for more navel gazing as these irrelevant and useless agencies consider how to merge with each other
Disaster - since when was tax and spend a plausible way out of a recession ?
Longfordian
14/10/2008, 4:19 PM
Good God, wine has gone up by 50% :eek::eek:
It's like they don't want us to be cultured
If you're drinking €1 bottles of wine, you won't have to worry about it for much longer!. It's 50c a bottle jebus.
OneRedArmy
14/10/2008, 4:21 PM
Good God, wine has gone up by 50% :eek::eek:
It's like they don't want us to be culturedWhat do you expect from the political wing of the VFI? Tax what people drink least in pubs....
He Bottled it Big Style - Nothing Nefarious in this when there should have been a few HaymakersDo you think it should've been more penal?:eek:
Not seen an innovative budget for a long time.
Tax Calculator (http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/)Profiligate in the good times, rabbits in the headlights in the bad.
NeilMcD
14/10/2008, 4:22 PM
If you're drinking €1 bottles of wine, you won't have to worry about it for much longer!. It's 50c a bottle jebus.
Classic.
The other piece I love is the 41 state agencies merged - this makes zero difference to the bottom line and is simply a recipe for more navel gazing as these irrelevant and useless agencies consider how to merge with each other
I am sure could find a good case to eliminate half those state agencies.
I would guess do not need to earn huge wage to see all taxes (not just income) increase by E1,000.
Cut Tax & cut spending would be standard way out of recession but our finances so bad can't make numbers work like that.
If you're drinking €1 bottles of wine, you won't have to worry about it for much longer!. It's 50c a bottle jebus.
Ah okay, that eases my fears. I thought it was 50% mark up on all wines, not 50c a bottle
NeilMcD
14/10/2008, 4:57 PM
Was that really your biggest fear.
mypost
14/10/2008, 5:05 PM
Social welfare above the €200 mark from January to €204 per week.
Ah okay, that eases my fears. I thought it was 50% mark up on all wines, not 50c a bottle
Pretty harsh on on the E4 plonk drinkers as they will see the same increase connoisseurs of E100 Chateau de whatever.
dahamsta
14/10/2008, 5:35 PM
Just to concur with the earlier poster on calling these tax hikes a "levy" btw. I know there's an awful lot of stupid people in Ireland, but Fianna Fail is really pushing the boat out on stupidity with that one...
That'd have been me...
Loads of details coming out now. Education grants being cut all over the place. Increase in public spending my eye...
OneRedArmy
14/10/2008, 5:55 PM
A levy tax on your income, phew, no rise in income tax though........wait a minute. :)
Rambling Along
14/10/2008, 11:00 PM
Petrol up 8 cent per litre!:eek:
The queue into the petrol station in Cobh was about 30 cars long at 8pm.
E200 charge for car parking will be interesting. Does the employer or the employee pay? We share spaces at work & have some unofficial spaces. Must be thousands of car parking spaces around the Stephens Green offices.
Still can't see any effort whatsoever to us the tax increases to indicate some sort of vision or direction. Tax increases do not solve recessions.
E200 charge for car parking will be interesting. Does the employer or the employee pay? We share spaces at work & have some unofficial spaces. Must be thousands of car parking spaces around the Stephens Green offices.
Still can't see any effort whatsoever to us the tax increases to indicate some sort of vision or direction. Tax increases do not solve recessions.
I think its more aimed at the civil servants & Dublin City council etc.
i'd be more concerned about the 1/2 increase in VAT. This is basically on everything we buy. Its not getting as much publicity.
McShels
15/10/2008, 7:25 AM
A quote from Lenihan yesterday; "It is no less than a call to patriotic action"
So builders, artists, the various multi millionaires aren't patriotic cos from what I can see they got it easy yesterday but then again thats FF looking after their friends again!!!!
Reality Bites
15/10/2008, 7:50 AM
1.65 billion euros to bail out builders that got us into this mess! The stink of lobbying of this just turns my nose
McShels
15/10/2008, 8:05 AM
Ok what we need now is something to cheer us up so its over to Trapattoni and the lads............
I am sure could find a good case to eliminate half those state agencies.
.
I completely agree - but if I could be confident that these people can translate this into money saving, I would praise this
Collapsing agencies means zero savings in headcount - it means shuffling the decks - theoretically it should mean a reduction in occupancy costs, consultatative costs, travel etc - but I have no faith in these people
Glorious chance missed, when everybody was expecting a harsh budget, he could have moderated tax increases but slashed spending - pathetic
anto1208
15/10/2008, 8:33 AM
I got petrol yesterday before the ques got too mad ( 2 cars ) it was 116.9 by 8 the ques where out on to the roads blocking up everyone , came out of my house this morning and spotted apple selling petrol for 114.9 and not a car in the que !!!!
The tax on air travel only applies to "longer" flights. up to 300km is 2 euro tax over 300 is 10euro so that means if you are flying to the UK from Dublin its 2 euro any other airport gets hit with the 10 euro charge. which i think is very unfair.
Still there is one good thing to come out of this budget and thats the word qwango's !! ive never heard that before.
OneRedArmy
15/10/2008, 8:46 AM
Still there is one good thing to come out of this budget and thats the word qwango's !! ive never heard that before.Its QUANGO surely?
Quasi-Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisations.
Popularised in the UK in the 90's.
OneRedArmy
15/10/2008, 8:47 AM
E200 charge for car parking will be interesting. Does the employer or the employee pay? We share spaces at work & have some unofficial spaces. Must be thousands of car parking spaces around the Stephens Green offices.
Still can't see any effort whatsoever to us the tax increases to indicate some sort of vision or direction. Tax increases do not solve recessions.
Newstalk reckoned civil sevice could be exempt as parking is provided by the OPW, not the employer.
Unbelievable if true :eek:
Newstalk reckoned civil sevice could be exempt as parking is provided by the OPW, not the employer.
Unbelievable if true :eek:
Probably won't be true. Private companies will just set up seperate companies to run their parking for them
While OPW do run the civil service car parks (in the same way they run all offices and buildings), all admin (allocation of spaces, collection of depsoits etc) is done by individual departments
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