Leagues Financial facts & Rumours thread

[pineapple stu]

The ground isn't really anything to do with it; all the money went on assembling a large squad to win the league, and now the backers' money has run out. The ground's just being used as a smokescreen by Hoey to blame everyone else other than himself.

Edit - damn you Dodge, pre-dissing my post!

[Lim till i die]

Well there is a pretty general statement

If you know of a better way to talk about the general public in an area. :rolleyes:


wonder how many other clubs can raise 100k in a week from its uncaring supporters.

I reckon quite a few would make a decent fist of it if push came to shove.

I'd not sure how many Limerick folk would be queing up to hand money over hand over fist to an old fool mind.


Drogs should be ashamed of their uncaring selves.

Are you really that dense that you can't see the difference between Drogheda people in general and Drogheda United fans


Intersting coming from a supporter of a club based in a city but has been plagued with money issues over the years and can gather no real substantial support from a CITY based population.

There are at least a half dozen clubs in this town not including Limerick FC that would be bigger than Monaghan or Kildare for example.

There are eight AIL clubs in and around the city.

Limerick is a county that actually has GAA teams.

Oh and there's this little outfit called Munster Rugby playing out of the cities northside.

Couple that with literally dozens of financial scandals within senior football in the last twenty years in the city and you get the idea. Limerick people arent fools and will gradually need coaxing back.

But of course if Fr. Joe Young or Pat Grace or Danny Drew et al were running the show up in Drogheda all your Tiny Tims would probably be forming an orderly line with their piggybacks.


Glass houses my friend and stones don't mix.

Jesus wept.

But while I'm here I'd just like to point out how pathetic Drogs crowds have consistently been despite your on field success.

There is zero football tradition in Drogheda when compared to places like Dundalk, Sligo, Limerick.

Before Hoey and his gangster mates came along and helped to destroy the league by paying out money you could never possiby afford you lot were Monaghans baby cousins. Now that the money is gone (if you're very very lucky) you can go back to being Monaghans baby cousins.


Also Emmett Malone was at the public meeting last week and wrote an article about it here - might change your opinion (then again maybe it wont as some people can't change)

That article is a disgrace, the worst kind of heartstring tugging pap and I always thought Malone had more brains than that. Robbing pensioners and widowers to feed money into the gaping chasm left by a man who at best is a complete and utter idiot is nothing short of sick and you should be ashamed of yourselves.


Things have changed big time downhere this season. Playing budget was cut by a huge amount and this season only Wexford, Limerick and Kildare were playing of lower budgets than us. Even Monaghan were running of higher costs than us


I find that very hard to believe


Seven weeks into the season a sponsor pulled out for economic reasons and that deal was worth 35k a season. In July we had another sponsor pull out and that was worth 10k a season

45k should hardly be club ruining


It is payment of past debt that is killing us we are totally up to date with the revenue (this season), league fees, referess fees etc

Find this very hard to believe aswell and even if it is true your players went weeks without paying which isn't on


We are one of the clubs running in profit this current season even with the sponsorship problems we have had.

If that's according to the FAI's definition of profit my only reply is :D.

If it isn't then you're obviously running a fantastically tight ship so where's the big problem??


We expect sponsorship to be down at least 70% next season in the midlands area.

A problem of course exclusively confined to the Midlands area..............................


LTID: Maybe have a look closer to home and ask your own committee where you would be without Jack McCarthys money this current season

No need to ask my commitee champ, I keep my ear fairly close to the ground and am fairly handy at the oul basic addition and subtraction.


without judging someone elses club that you know nothing about.

The last couple of seasons you pinched clubs from other teams offering them money you could never afford to pay therefore scoruge on the division.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost it's the credit crunches fault.

Shur everything has always been hunky dory according to yourself and you're now on here questioning me about my knowledge of my club?!?!


Whats your point?

What do you mean what's my point??

The league is on its fcukin knees and it's not the FAI's fault, it's not the Premierships fault, it's not the medias fault, it's the clubs, THE CLUBS who are at fault.

Whatever about the likes of Dublin City, or even Drogheda going to the wall, an institution like Athlone Town?!?!

It's fuppin depressing lads. :(

And the sooner people get their heads out of their holes the better.

[ciaraa]

Now I hope they survive, honest I do, I always liked Athlone as a club, there's some good people there, but it aint so long ago they were on here bragging about their zillionaire backers and winning the league.


Funny the way some people here think that a few geeks on an internet football forum are reflective of the whole support of a club.
Like most people I know from athlone wouldnt even know how to turn on a computer!

[Lim till i die]

Funny the way some people here think that a few geeks on an internet football forum are reflective of the whole support of a club.
Like most people I know from athlone wouldnt even know how to turn on a computer!

Well can only comment on the people I know from Athlone.

They post on here.

They are good people.

They blah blah you get the idea

As a club Athlone Town feckin fancied themselves a couple of years ago though.

[Pedro m]

What sort of budgets are required to run a middle of the road 1st div team
eg ballpark managers wages and pplayers wages?

[Lim till i die]

What sort of budgets are required to run a middle of the road 1st div team
eg ballpark managers wages and pplayers wages?

This season you're maybe talking 200k all told

That's including travel, meals, training etc etc etc

Next season I reckon you could run a middle of the road First Division team off whatever change you have in your pocket right now

[ciaraa]

Well can only comment on the people I know from Athlone.

They post on here.

They are good people.

They blah blah you get the idea

As a club Athlone Town feckin fancied themselves a couple of years ago though.

lol yeah sorry didnt mean to single you out LTID - just think its funny the way people go on taking forums as gospel etc. The average drogs fan is a different breed from the average drogs forum user (thankfully).

edit: sorry for taking this off topic and I really hope ATFC dont drop out too by the way...

[Ash]

What sort of budgets are required to run a middle of the road 1st div team
eg ballpark managers wages and pplayers wages?

Minimum €120k-€150k I reckon and thats with an all amature, expenses only,
squad.

[Battery Rover]

150k minimum to run a team just to survive in the league and player expenses with that would be very minimal

[RonnieB]

We are not very healthy ourselves at the moment a few issues to be sorted out before the season begins. Midlands Utd anyone ;) :D

[monutdfc]

Schadenfreude - literally, shameful joy - thanks to LTID I will indulge in some next time Limerick go broke (shouldn't have too long to wait with their record)

[Ash]

Midlands Utd anyone ;) :D

Theres already a Midlands Celtic in Div 4A of the CCFL!

[gufct]

there is a midlands athletic from Grangegorman played with them many years ago. Sorry about Athlone Ash used to go to Mels before loi football found Galway. Even was aactually at the famous Milan Game,

[Battery Rover]

Even was actually at the famous Milan Game,

Now if we could just get the 100,000 people who say they attended that match to help us out we would be sorted:D

[irishultra]

maby this will make you feel better to hear its not just our teams that have financial trouble. I'm sure MTZ-Ripo won the league a few years ago.



Hearts' financial concerns appear to be increasing after news from Belarusian side MTZ-Ripo that playing staff have not been paid for almost six months. Ripo receive the vast majority of their income from companies owned by Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov. (The Scotsman)

[prince20]

Actually, most of their money problems, I would imagine, come from the ridiculous wages they gave to players in 2007. They were reported to have the highest wage bill in the division that season.
Have to laugh at the speculation people come up with.
You say in your post "i would imagine". That translates into simple english as "I dont have a clue what i am on about but ill add my tuppence worth in to stir up some shi* to the speculation"
Concentrate on your own club.:eek:

[The Lilywhites]

Not stirring. You had the highest wage bill in the First Division in 2007. One player in particular was on €800 per week. If that's nothing to do with your current money problems, fair enough.

[Longfordian]

There were three on over €1000 a week gross that season. If I remember rightly the Athlone lads on here freely admitted it. Their manager at the time didn't really grasp the concept of gross wages and was agreeing figures into the hand with players, like the good old days.

[holidaysong]

Their manager at the time didn't really grasp the concept of gross wages...

Had he never seen a payslip before? :eek:

[Longfordian]

Well he was certainly paying no attention to the fact that figures had to be more or less doubled from what he agreed as far as I know. Athlone were intent on making a push for promotion so they went along with it. The likes of Davy Byrne and Paul McTiernan couldnt believe their luck.

[passerrby]

I do wish ltid that when you are in discussion with other posters about all of your eventual meltdowns you left us out of your conversation, just in case anybody gets the impression we are in the same boat as ourselves.. god forbid

[wonder88]

If Atlone were paying players 800 a week, then what do there fans expect but financial ruin. The amount of money taken out of league of Ireland football by greedy and useless players and managers is the main reason the league has lost all credibility with the public. I still don't understand how Fran Gavin, given his background, could be appointed to such an impotant job by anyone who wants to see domestic soccer progress. Just look at Drogheada, Shells and Bohs and Cork and the wages they have paid out to players who would find it difficult to make it in the English Conferance. How could some of these players end witjh agents no less ? crazy world indeed in the league of Ireland

[passinginterest]

Ok so thong** are looking bad for a lot of clubs, most of them have only themselves to blame, the league is on the verge of meltdown, should the FAI come in with a rescue package at this stage?

Obviously the FAI is not exactly flush at the moment, trying to complete Landsdowne and struggling to sell corporate pacakages, but they're still much better off than the clubs in the League of Ireland.

If the FAI came up with a package worth 11 million divided between the 22 clubs, half a million each, it would clear the debts of most of the ones in trouble, or at least stave off their debtors, the clubs who are not up to their necks would be advised that this money can only be invested in facilities and maybe club promotion, with receipts having to be provided for every penny of it spent.

This should allow clubs in debt to make a fresh start with sustainability and very strictly enforced licensing criteria to the fore. Any overspending or jeopardising of the clubs future would have to be quickly and decisively punished, using parameters clearly defined within the rescue package.

Anyone think an idea like this might be a runner? Could the FAI find that kind of money? Feel free to ridicule, I'm bored senseless today so this is just me typing as I think! :)

[Longfordian]

Well they're already talking about bailing out Cobh by buying their ground for €500,000. If that goes ahead and other clubs want to go down the same route the FAI should facilitate them. Personally I don't think they should bail anybody out. Let them stand or fall on their own resources.

[pineapple stu]

FAI can't afford E11m with the new Lansdowne being built.

And money wouldn't solve the problem of the fools who ran the clubs into these problems in the first place.

[passinginterest]

Well they're already talking about bailing out Cobh by buying their ground for €500,000. If that goes ahead and other clubs want to go down the same route the FAI should facilitate them. Personally I don't think they should bail anybody out. Let them stand or fall on their own resources.

That's why I was going for a package that would involve all clubs, it's very unfair if they start bailing out some and leave others to die. Obviously if a club is beyond help there's no point.

[Dodge]

They won't find 11 million, and even if they do, there's absolutely no guarentees that clubs won't just run up the debt again.

[passinginterest]

FAI can't afford E11m with the new Lansdowne being built.

That would be the obvious stumbling block.



And money wouldn't solve the problem of the fools who ran the clubs into these problems in the first place.

The provisions as to how the money could be spent and much stricter licensing and monitoring of spending going forward would hopefully curb this.

[Battery Rover]

Well they're already talking about bailing out Cobh by buying their ground for €500,000. If that goes ahead and other clubs want to go down the same route the FAI should facilitate them. Personally I don't think they should bail anybody out. Let them stand or fall on their own resources.

If the Cobh deal goes through I can see a flood of clubs looking for the same.

From what I hear it will struggle to get the required number of votes to succeed

[dapman1]

So, would the money be divided up among the clubs who will be in the league at the begining of the 2009 season, or amongst those who finished 2008 (when the debt was accumulated). We all could have had better teams if we didnt bother paying them;)

[pineapple stu]

If the Cobh deal goes through I can see a flood of clubs looking for the same
Only if they own their own ground though. That rules quite a lot of teams out surely?


The provisions as to how the money could be spent and much stricter licensing and monitoring of spending going forward would hopefully curb this.
Now you're just being naive! That's like saying stricter licencing after the Shels case should have prevented Drogheda, Bohs, Cork, etc.

[Longfordian]

If the Cobh deal goes through I can see a flood of clubs looking for the same

Understandable. Why should Cobh get preference to anybody else?. One of the reasons why I reckon it won't pass the FAI Board meeting. They should try and maybe work out some deal with regards to getting clubs finance. Maybe go guarantor or partial guarantor on loans or something with the clubs also putting up their assets, whatever they may be.

[OneRedArmy]

FAI can't afford E11m with the new Lansdowne being built.

And money wouldn't solve the problem of the fools who ran the clubs into these problems in the first place.Agree on the first point, but on the second, you are in danger of wishing the whole League away.

Yes clubs overspent and were managed poorly (in common with much of the wider economy) and if you stick to the letter of the law you'd end up with a handful of "legacy" clubs next season (and that handful is getting smaller by the day) and some new clubs stepping in.

There comes a tipping point in any walk of live where when the majority of participants do not comply with a set of rules the rules become pointless. We are at this point in the EL.

[passerrby]

Well they're already talking about bailing out Cobh by buying their ground for €500,000. If that goes ahead and other clubs want to go down the same route the FAI should facilitate them. Personally I don't think they should bail anybody out. Let them stand or fall on their own resources.

only heard this today whose plan is this the fai or cobh, cant see the other clubs been to happy about this

[passinginterest]

Now you're just being naive! That's like saying stricter licencing after the Shels case should have prevented Drogheda, Bohs, Cork, etc.

Ya I suppose I am, I'd just love to see a healthy, sustainable league that learned it's lessons, was well administered and grew as a result of good management and promotion rather than reckless spending an vain hope.

Seeing Fingal offering 2 year full time contracts to players in the first division dispels that hope pretty quickly :( I know they have guarantees in place for five years but what then? And considering the main backer is a property man what happens if he really hits the crap? They must have made a massive loss last year and are planning on making a bigger one next season.

[brianw82]

Seeing Fingal offering 2 year full time contracts to players in the first division dispels that hope pretty quickly :( I know they have guarantees in place for five years but what then? And considering the main backer is a property man what happens if he really hits the crap? They must have made a massive loss last year and are planning on making a bigger one next season.

Fingal is a Shels/Drogheda/Cork/Bohs situation just waiting to happen. No doubt some of the players know this too, but they're being offerred the money NOW and that's probably all they're thinking about.

[pineapple stu]

Agree on the first point, but on the second, you are in danger of wishing the whole League away.
I suppose I am, but I simply don't agree with giving fools money so they can continue being fools. The league has to address the root causes of its problems, and throwing money away, as we've seen, doesn't do that.

[Dodge]

only heard this today whose plan is this the fai or cobh, cant see the other clubs been to happy about this

Don't see why other clubs should be too upset? FAI have already bailed out Bohs and Drogheda in this way previously.

Cobh remain in football, St Colmans remains in football. Cobh will have to pay rent and if they want the ground, buy it back

[passerrby]

Ya I suppose I am, I'd just love to see a healthy, sustainable league that learned it's lessons, was well administered and grew as a result of good management and promotion rather than reckless spending an vain hope.

Seeing Fingal offering 2 year full time contracts to players in the first division dispels that hope pretty quickly :( I know they have guarantees in place for five years but what then? And considering the main backer is a property man what happens if he really hits the crap? They must have made a massive loss last year and are planning on making a bigger one next season.

afraid your right how can this league ever have any credability when we all know some clubs are going to massively overspend again next year

[Longfordian]

only heard this today whose plan is this the fai or cobh, cant see the other clubs been to happy about this

From reports it seems Delaney is in favour of it but as to who approached who, I couldn't tell you. There is apparently some opposition within the FAI and at other clubs to the idea.

[Dodge]

afraid your right how can this league ever have any credability when we all know some clubs are going to massively overspend again next year

The overspending does not affect credibility. Valencia are 600million in debt. English clubs in debt up ot their eyes. Are the premiership and la liga suffering?

****e crowds, rubbish stadiums and petty squables over EVERYTHING damage our credibility. Apart from the talking shop of internet forums and a few overly cynical journos, the majority of LOI fans, and potential LOI fans don't look at balance sheets.

[Longfordian]

Don't see why other clubs should be too upset? FAI have already bailed out Bohs and Drogheda in this way previously.

Cobh remain in football, St Colmans remains in football. Cobh will have to pay rent and if they want the ground, buy it back

If it were guaranteed that every club could avail of that solution then I don't think they'd be too worried. I'd imagine the fear is that if and when they're in trouble the FAI won't be as helpful.

[passerrby]

Don't see why other clubs should be too upset? FAI have already bailed out Bohs and Drogheda in this way previously.

Cobh remain in football, St Colmans remains in football. Cobh will have to pay rent and if they want the ground, buy it back

why would they want it back , if they have unfetered access and would that mean the fai are responsible for licence compliance in the ground.

[pineapple stu]

If they want to sell it in the future to move to a new ground, they'd have to buy it back. Similar to the Drogheda situation.

[passerrby]

dodge you cant seriously be saying that the by now daily reports of lubs in meltdown do to overspending is not undermining its credability

[pineapple stu]

He's saying it's the constant negative media rather than the meltdown that's more the problem.

Meltdowns are in place across Europe (he named two high profile examples), but they get much less column inches, so people care less.

[Dodge]

dodge you cant seriously be saying that the by now daily reports of lubs in meltdown do to overspending is not undermining its credability

I absolutely do believe that. Go on and ask 50 people why they don't go to LOI games and see how many say overspending. I guarantee you far more will say "****e football", "****e crowds", "****e grounds"

DO sponsors care? Nope, all they want is exposure.

Do fans of current clubs really care? Apart froma small minority, no. Most Bohs fans knew they were in deep **** all season. Did they stop celebrating the double? Did they ****?!

Come the start of the next season, whatever clubs are around, will concentrate on the football. Sure some of us will care, but most just want to see their team win

[Steve Bruce]

Could some one who knows summerise the financial situations of each club. Saves people (like myself lol) having to read through 13 pages to find out.

Thanks

[Longfordian]

No. Read the pages you won't regret it. (Pats, Rovers, Monaghan, UCD, Derry and Sligo probably are ok, everyone else is either in trouble about to be in trouble or just about out of trouble).

[passerrby]

I disagree dodge ,i sat in a pub in galway a week ago and heard some lads discussing the LOI and not once they mention football only the financial troubles that surrond clubs now while i take your point that it may not have a negative effect of supporters going to games it must make the clubs looks both stupid ans unsustainable